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Reply #210 posted 01/27/19 3:22pm

CynicKill

ladygirl99 said:

CynicKill said:

I hate to poke at this beehive but the difference seems to be that black men are becoming the face of the metoo movement. Cosby is in jail, they're trying for R Kelly, and it looks like they're gunning for Chris Brown (continuously). I hate to sound morbid but thank God Michael Jackson is dead, otherwise he'd be headed for jail too.

I have yet to see a white male, especially Weinstien, be put in jail and I doubt I ever will, and I won't lose sleep waiting for it to happen either.

This will all play out, things will be what they are and things won't change and if so only for the worse.

And they deserved it too if they had strong evidence of allegations so please with the straight black male victimhood where they can be sexual oppressors too especially toward black queers/trans.

I am not going to give black men passes for being abusers just because we shared the same racial struggle. But last time I check, a majority of white men are still the face of Metoo movement like Weinstein, Brian Singer (the latest), Woody Allen, Louis CK, Kevin Spacey, Sylvester Stallone, Steven Seagal for starters so where you been?

And as for Chris Brown, he got many passes and so had Meek Mills with violating his probation. And also charges against Anthony Anderson got dropped and he had sex assault allegations. Bill Cosby had numerous allegations and paid off went back in the 60s even midst of Jim Crow legalization and Bill Cosby was even lucky to get three years only because some deposition he confessed. Don't get me started with now Michael Jackson where there had been solid evidence he had did inappropriate things and yet he hadn't served a day in jail. Same goes for OJ and he had bullshit went back to the 60s and his victims got paid off. My point is that black men's cases got drop just like the white ones and black men got acquittal (like R. Kelly, OJ just as the likes of Robert Blake) if they are rich and powerful and with the right team.

I am all for taking up for black men if they were wrongfully accused but I am also sick of the black culture continue to give them passes if they fuck up out of racial loyality. Those days are gone and R. Kelly outrage is just a start thanks to Metoo.

You're right on many fronts.

But the fact still remains that none of the men I've highlighted above will do jail time, which is a legit serious situation.

How did a movement start with powerful white men being the spark to black men doing the jail time (and from the looks of it there will be more than Cosby because the MSM is gunning)?

I'm just playing devil's advocate. Observing.

It is what it is.

Be careful out there, and first and foremost watch your children.

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Reply #211 posted 01/27/19 4:38pm

ItsLetoyaBaby

It's sad that in the 21st century, people are still motivated to act a certain way towards someone on racial grounds. Racism has definitely entered the #metoo movement in my opinion, in the sense that it's mostly non-white people who are facing consequences.

[Edited 1/27/19 17:16pm]

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Reply #212 posted 01/27/19 4:58pm

luv4u

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[Please be civil to one another, no baiting or flaming, name calling, off topic, etc. - you know......... the usual "org rules". Any shitty problems with this thread and it will be shut down and offenders will be dealt with accordingly - this is a warning - luv4u]



lurking

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Reply #213 posted 01/27/19 5:02pm

alphastreet

I’m sorry to hear about some of the personal experiences posters have had. This thread as a whole is just sad in general

To me it’s not about whether he did it or not, but the fact mj had poor boundaries with choosing friends generally speaking, and I think most would agree that it’s a relief that he is no longer around to get hurt some more

I worry for Paris however...
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Reply #214 posted 01/27/19 6:09pm

PatrickS77

avatar

alphastreet said:

I’m sorry to hear about some of the personal experiences posters have had. This thread as a whole is just sad in general To me it’s not about whether he did it or not, but the fact mj had poor boundaries with choosing friends generally speaking, and I think most would agree that it’s a relief that he is no longer around to get hurt some more I worry for Paris however...


No, it's not.

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Reply #215 posted 01/27/19 6:10pm

alphastreet

PatrickS77 said:



alphastreet said:


I’m sorry to hear about some of the personal experiences posters have had. This thread as a whole is just sad in general To me it’s not about whether he did it or not, but the fact mj had poor boundaries with choosing friends generally speaking, and I think most would agree that it’s a relief that he is no longer around to get hurt some more I worry for Paris however...


No, it's not.



I know, it’s not right how he died at all but this is so complicated. I believe your story about talking to the new accuser but am not looking forward to any more backlash
[Edited 1/27/19 18:13pm]
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Reply #216 posted 01/27/19 6:16pm

PatrickS77

avatar

alphastreet said:

PatrickS77 said:


No, it's not.

I know, it’s not right how he died at all but this is so complicated. I believe your story about talking to the new accuser but am not looking forward to any more backlash [Edited 1/27/19 18:13pm]

I doubt these 3 would have changed their tunes would he still be around.

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Reply #217 posted 01/27/19 6:24pm

alphastreet

PatrickS77 said:



alphastreet said:


PatrickS77 said:



No, it's not.



I know, it’s not right how he died at all but this is so complicated. I believe your story about talking to the new accuser but am not looking forward to any more backlash [Edited 1/27/19 18:13pm]


I doubt these 3 would have changed their tunes would he still be around.




People like that are unpredictable though, I wonder if abandonment issues drove their behaviours. Either way Michael was too trusting of people and I wish this would all just go away

As for the music it’s not going away, I just heard rock with you in public today smile
[Edited 1/27/19 18:26pm]
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Reply #218 posted 01/27/19 6:25pm

rdhull

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luv4u said:

[Please be civil to one another, no baiting or flaming, name calling, off topic, etc. - you know......... the usual "org rules". Any shitty problems with this thread and it will be shut down and offenders will be dealt with accordingly - this is a warning - luv4u]



lurking

lol every MJ thread ends up with this

c'mon baby, where's ya guts?
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Reply #219 posted 01/27/19 6:34pm

Free2BMe

alphastreet said:

PatrickS77 said:



alphastreet said:


I’m sorry to hear about some of the personal experiences posters have had. This thread as a whole is just sad in general To me it’s not about whether he did it or not, but the fact mj had poor boundaries with choosing friends generally speaking, and I think most would agree that it’s a relief that he is no longer around to get hurt some more I worry for Paris however...


No, it's not.



I know, it’s not right how he died at all but this is so complicated. I believe your story about talking to the new accuser but am not looking forward to any more backlash
[Edited 1/27/19 18:13pm]


Wow! To say that it is a relief that he is no longer around to get hurt anymore, is like saying it’s a relief that Prince is no longer around because of the pain he was in. That doesn’t make Michael’s fans or children feel any better. Just as it doesn’t make Prince’s fans or family feel better. Each of these men’s fans wish they were still around. Even with all of the shit that Michael had to endure, him being here would still be better than him gone. These 3 cowards would never have changed their stories if Michael were still here.
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Reply #220 posted 01/27/19 6:38pm

alphastreet

I know it’s a selfish thought but I know for a fact I’m not the only one who feels this way. I don’t accept how he died before his time and it took long to come to terms with it. I feel sorry for his kids and parents more than anyone else grieving though. I feel for fellow fans who still aren’t over it but I can’t let it consume me anymore
[Edited 1/27/19 18:39pm]
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Reply #221 posted 01/27/19 6:41pm

Free2BMe

PatrickS77 said:



alphastreet said:


PatrickS77 said:



No, it's not.



I know, it’s not right how he died at all but this is so complicated. I believe your story about talking to the new accuser but am not looking forward to any more backlash [Edited 1/27/19 18:13pm]


I doubt these 3 would have changed their tunes would he still be around.




These cowards would have never changed their stories if Michael were still around.
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Reply #222 posted 01/27/19 6:43pm

Free2BMe

alphastreet said:[quote]I know it’s a selfish thought but I know for a fact I’m not the only one who feels this way. I don’t accept how he died before his time and it took long to come to terms with it. I feel sorry for his kids and parents more than anyone else grieving though. I feel for fellow fans who still aren’t over it but I can’t let it consume me anymore
[Edited 1/27/19 18:39pm]

I’m still grieving. However, I have never let that grief consume me.
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Reply #223 posted 01/27/19 6:48pm

alphastreet

Free2BMe said:[quote]

alphastreet said:

I know it’s a selfish thought but I know for a fact I’m not the only one who feels this way. I don’t accept how he died before his time and it took long to come to terms with it. I feel sorry for his kids and parents more than anyone else grieving though. I feel for fellow fans who still aren’t over it but I can’t let it consume me anymore
[Edited 1/27/19 18:39pm]

I’m still grieving. However, I have never let that grief consume me.


Good for you for not letting it consume you, cause I went overboard at some point. Was very hard coming to terms with it mind you
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Reply #224 posted 01/27/19 7:53pm

Graycap23

avatar

Releasing something like this when the person being accused has died is bogus.

True or otherwise, Mj can't speak on his own behalf.

What is the motivation behind something like this?

[Edited 1/27/19 20:00pm]

FOOLS multiply when WISE Men & Women are silent.
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Reply #225 posted 01/27/19 8:20pm

SoulAlive

Graycap23 said:

Releasing something like this when the person being accused has died is bogus.

True or otherwise, Mj can't speak on his own behalf.

What is the motivation behind something like this?

I agree.This is shameful and so unfair.

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Reply #226 posted 01/27/19 8:25pm

PeteSilas

it's good that a phoney is coming out, makes the others look less credible. i'm hoping someday jordan chandler shows up.

PatrickS77 said:

ladygirl99 said:

Like I said abuse victims are conflicted when they are being molested by the abuser especially when they don't have the stereotype and knew how to groom their victims. Especially if that abuser is rich, powerful, and had the money to discredit in many ways. And some abusers had the next door image and people would also refuse to believe it, cause the victims not come forward or publicly support them just to keep the peace but behind closed doors, they are eating away inside and like you said the guy you meant might had been an asshole because the effects of abuse and had enabled family members.

One minute they defended their abusers publicly but might tell their therapist and close friends/family differently, I been in that shoes and so had my friends who were abused by powerful people or people who were popular among their communities. Apparently, you haven't been abused so I am going to end the conversation about this.

Yes, I agree that Wade and James with their actions are funny when it comes to profit off MJ but maybe they did that out of their own justice since they didn't have an outlet to deal with and having enable parents didn't help. And also boys could also protected their abusers because it is harder for them to come out than girls out of shame and out of fear of being label as gay.

No, you should reexamine of worship a singer man who you never met and be more logical. Forget about whether you know that Micahel Jacob Hagen as you said you had a limited connection with him? Most people wouldn't talk about their sexual abuse to people who are related to them much less the ones they had a few encounters with. That is illogical. That is why he might not tell you a real deal because you are not his friend.

Even though I never met Michael or anyone connected to him, it is laughable how people continue to dismiss people who were there from his workers to the boys he hung around and even some of his family members who saw inappropriate that would got him long jail time if he wasn't the MJ. They backtracked not maybe because they lied because the fear of rich and powerful like Michael Jackson was.


How convenient of you or anyone to use the behaviour of some abuse victims to explain away all the actions of those 3 guys that totally screw up their abuse stories. You should take off your abuse colored glasses and look at things the way they are.

Not that it matters, but actually, I have met Michael Jackson. As for Jakobshagen. Yes. I'm no friend of his. I didn't like him too much back in the day... as he was bragging too much about his meeting with Michael for my taste and felt something was off, when I talked to him some years ago (a phone call he put forth to me... he wanted to talk to me). But friends of mine were in closer contact with him (that's why that phone call came about). So really, I do know all I need to know about him, to know that he's a liar and will tell anything that helps him. For years, he embelished his "friendship" story with Michael, to publisha book about it and made his rounds in the press defending Michael, while selling fake autographs and memorabillia for thousands of Euros, encroaching his way into Ola Ray's circle, trying to get close to the Jackson family members and swindling his way into Forest Lawn cemetery, while selling his stories to tabloid media. 2 years ago his bluff was up. He was exposed for the fraud he is on german television. He got charged, sued and got judgements against himself to pay back money he swindled out of gullible fans, which he hasn't paid to this day. Now, after first denouncing Robson's allegations as lies, he's jumping on the #metoo and trash MJ bandwagon and tries to paint himself as a victim. And eager fools like you, who project their own shit on it, eat that shit up and use him and other frauds as proof that Michael Jackson molested children. It's sickening.


We dismiss these people because all of them had monetary reasons/motives and axes to grind and alwways made sure that whatever they had to tell made them money first. Supposed justice or protection of children never was of any concern to any of them. Even the one family member, who said she saw cheques.

[Edited 1/27/19 15:00pm]

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Reply #227 posted 01/27/19 8:26pm

SoulAlive

so many people took advantage of Michael when he was alive and now it's still happening even when he's dead disbelief

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Reply #228 posted 01/27/19 8:32pm

PeteSilas

again, put robsons ass in prison for lying, see if he switchees up, i think he would. and some of the stories i'm hearing, just hearing sound a little too convenient, that mike made them look at pictures of peter pan and the everyday rape is retarded, no one does something everyday for seven years and no one has a clue, that's bullshit. several of the people close to jackson have swtiched and switched again, the one guy who said he had phone sex with michael was praising him to the skies the day he died on the british news. i'm all for the truth, bring the truth, either way mike was one of the greatest entertainers ever.

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Reply #229 posted 01/27/19 8:39pm

gandorb

The other victims of the story other than MJ are the genuine victims of abuse. It is suspicious stories like these that make people skeptical of other people's genjuine reports. Real abuse victims deserve better too.

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Reply #230 posted 01/27/19 9:01pm

PeteSilas

so what would it take to convince me? if bill cosby numbers come out, that would help, also, jordy chandler coming fully out to address it would help, harder proof like pics or video would do it, outside of that i'm not satisfied at all with what these guys are saying and i still can't believe MJ was so stupid as to get into that kind of mess. if he wanted to do that, he had the resources to keep it quiet like many child molestors have and do. Maybe it's true what some say, that Michael really did go mad. no rhyme or reason otherwise. either way, i'm a fan and if i'm ever convinced he did it, i'd still be a fan. you add up all the good and all the bad he may have done, the good far outweighs the bad any way you cut it. saved lives, given careers, built hospitals on and on and on and on.

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Reply #231 posted 01/27/19 9:47pm

Free2BMe

PeteSilas said:

so what would it take to convince me? if bill cosby numbers come out, that would help, also, jordy chandler coming fully out to address it would help, harder proof like pics or video would do it, outside of that i'm not satisfied at all with what these guys are saying and i still can't believe MJ was so stupid as to get into that kind of mess. if he wanted to do that, he had the resources to keep it quiet like many child molestors have and do. Maybe it's true what some say, that Michael really did go mad. no rhyme or reason otherwise. either way, i'm a fan and if i'm ever convinced he did it, i'd still be a fan. you add up all the good and all the bad he may have done, the good far outweighs the bad any way you cut it. saved lives, given careers, built hospitals on and on and on and on.



FTR, I never heard anyone say that Michael went mad. Just thought I’d throw that in with your otherwise rational post. Btw, any other person would have gone mad with all of the bullshit that was thrown at Michael.
[Edited 1/27/19 21:50pm]
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Reply #232 posted 01/28/19 12:34am

PeteSilas

Free2BMe said:

PeteSilas said:

so what would it take to convince me? if bill cosby numbers come out, that would help, also, jordy chandler coming fully out to address it would help, harder proof like pics or video would do it, outside of that i'm not satisfied at all with what these guys are saying and i still can't believe MJ was so stupid as to get into that kind of mess. if he wanted to do that, he had the resources to keep it quiet like many child molestors have and do. Maybe it's true what some say, that Michael really did go mad. no rhyme or reason otherwise. either way, i'm a fan and if i'm ever convinced he did it, i'd still be a fan. you add up all the good and all the bad he may have done, the good far outweighs the bad any way you cut it. saved lives, given careers, built hospitals on and on and on and on.

FTR, I never heard anyone say that Michael went mad. Just thought I’d throw that in with your otherwise rational post. Btw, any other person would have gone mad with all of the bullshit that was thrown at Michael. [Edited 1/27/19 21:50pm]

in all fairness, you don't have to go mad to do stupid shit, all of us do stupid shit and most of us aren't that crazy. but there have been people who've said he'd gone crazy, john landis said he was "quite mad" by the time of the dangerous videos he did with him. Just one man's opinion. You could say the same for most top artists of his calibre, Elvis certainly wasn't the same ole country boy he started out as in the end, and you could say he 'went mad" I guess. one of the women who grew up with him put it better though "it sounds like a different person" fame is a pressure cooker and kudos to anyone who can cope, I don't think the average person would manage as well really.

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Reply #233 posted 01/28/19 1:05am

SoftSkarlettLo
visa

It's rubbish. A documentary determined to tarnish MJ's name and reputation. He never molested anyone.

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Reply #234 posted 01/28/19 1:22am

PeteSilas

SoftSkarlettLovisa said:

It's rubbish. A documentary determined to tarnish MJ's name and reputation. He never molested anyone.

I'll watch it when i get a chance but i know goddamned good and well that a filmaker can build a career off of bullshit like this. I'd maybe have a more positive attitude if the guy had gotten the same in depth interviews with guys like Culkin, webster and carlton, guys who've never wavered on the molestation shit, in other words, like other docus, like spike lee's, who tries to present facts and lets the viewer decide.

[Edited 1/28/19 3:19am]

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Reply #235 posted 01/28/19 2:18am

SoftSkarlettLo
visa

PeteSilas said:

SoftSkarlettLovisa said:

It's rubbish. A documentary determined to tarnish MJ's name and reputation. He never molested anyone.

I'll watch it when i get a chance but i know goddamned good and well that a filmaker can't build a career off of bullshit like this. I'd maybe have a more positive attitude if the guy had gotten the same in depth interviews with guys like Culkin, webster and carlton, guys who've never wavered on the molestation shit, in other words, like other docus, like spike lee's, who tries to present facts and lets the viewer decide.

I may watch it myself if given the chance, but I bet it's nothing I haven't heard before. It's amazing how filmmakers get the funding and connections to make garbage diposals like this one in the first place, let alone have them broadcasted.

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Reply #236 posted 01/28/19 2:26am

PeteSilas

SoftSkarlettLovisa said:

PeteSilas said:

I'll watch it when i get a chance but i know goddamned good and well that a filmaker can't build a career off of bullshit like this. I'd maybe have a more positive attitude if the guy had gotten the same in depth interviews with guys like Culkin, webster and carlton, guys who've never wavered on the molestation shit, in other words, like other docus, like spike lee's, who tries to present facts and lets the viewer decide.

I may watch it myself if given the chance, but I bet it's nothing I haven't heard before. It's amazing how filmmakers get the funding and connections to make garbage diposals like this one in the first place, let alone have them broadcasted.

it's money in the bank, that's why, i'm only surprised it took this long. I mentioned spikes docu's, he does fine docus, where he doesn't pretend to have a point of view, he lets the camera and the people tell the story. when he did jim browns docu, he interviewed women who he'd abused and his and their respones (similarly, his current wife denied he abused her after calling the cops). so, as spike says, he didn't want to say anything one way or the other, and in my opinion, Jim Brown was a woman beater and a bully but he was also a very generous good man, both of those can exist in one person.

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Reply #237 posted 01/28/19 2:46am

ItsLetoyaBaby

Where are the Jacksons? Doesn't his family defend him? Why am I only seeing fans and a nephew?
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Reply #238 posted 01/28/19 3:20am

PeteSilas

ItsLetoyaBaby said:

Where are the Jacksons? Doesn't his family defend him? Why am I only seeing fans and a nephew?

They are give them a minute
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Reply #239 posted 01/28/19 3:35am

SoftSkarlettLo
visa

PeteSilas said:

SoftSkarlettLovisa said:

I may watch it myself if given the chance, but I bet it's nothing I haven't heard before. It's amazing how filmmakers get the funding and connections to make garbage diposals like this one in the first place, let alone have them broadcasted.

it's money in the bank, that's why, i'm only surprised it took this long. I mentioned spikes docu's, he does fine docus, where he doesn't pretend to have a point of view, he lets the camera and the people tell the story. when he did jim browns docu, he interviewed women who he'd abused and his and their respones (similarly, his current wife denied he abused her after calling the cops). so, as spike says, he didn't want to say anything one way or the other, and in my opinion, Jim Brown was a woman beater and a bully but he was also a very generous good man, both of those can exist in one person.

I remember some God-awful docos on Michael in the early 2000s. There was an English doco that was called "Michael Jackson's Face" and it featured interviews with plastic surgeons and others who had never met Michael, only seen him on a TV screen, and were saying: "What *is* this creature? Is it a man? Is it a boy? Is it a woman?

The early 2000s were very bad times for Michael indeed.

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