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Reply #90 posted 01/18/19 2:23am

bonatoc

avatar

Free2BMe said:

bonatoc said:


The more discomforting the thought he found solace in the company of kids.
You're either Peter Pan, or you're not. It doesn't match with the performance-obsessed guy
who wrote 100 millions on his mirror to motivate himself. That's not an innocent or pure intent.

What I find disconcerting is that people are either too ignorant, lazy or unaware that Michael didn’t just find solace in the company of kids. Michael hung out with Chris Tucker, Steve Harvey, Elizabeth Taylor, Gregory Peck and his wife, Jane Fonda, Sophia Loren, Teddy Riley, Nelson Mandela, etc. Just because you don’t know about these ADULTS, doesn’t mean that he only hung out kids and their FAMILIES. Let me emphasize to you again, that the kids who came to Neverland were their with their FAMILIES. His nieces and nephews were their all the time. HUNDREDS of inner city kids were invited to NEVERLAND with their parents, chaperones and sponsors. Everything that I am saying is easily verified by video footage. Seriously, you and other skeptical people need to do your research before you accuse or ASSUME that you know something. I can guaranteed you thst you really don’t know anything. It would like me assuming something about you,when I know nothing. confused


Well calm down, Honey. I'm here to learn. You can school me without yelling.
I'm playing the devil's advocate to find out some truth.
The web being the junkyard it has become, pardon me for searching in here. It's quicker.

The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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Reply #91 posted 01/18/19 2:33am

bonatoc

avatar

Free2BMe said:

mechanicalemotion17 said:
Did he really handle it...WELL? Michael was clearly detached from reality
Yes, he handled it well. Bullshit on the assertion that MicHael was detached from reality. I would bet money that he was attached to reality as much or more than you are anyone else. Btw, what is your so-called “reality”? Michael was kind and generous; but he was highly intelligent and an astute businessman. I don’t know anyone who spoke or dealt with this man who thought he was detached from realty. I emphasize NO ONE. It is sad that you and a few others, base YOUR perception of normal as what you believe is “standard”. The ironic thing is that someone could think that of you or me.


Like settling out of court for 23 millions,
starting a depression that lasted for years and ended up taking his life away,
when he should have give them the sparkling finger?

You should remove those Carrera glasses from time to time.
Your worship is beautiful and honors you,
but is a little too fervent to be considered "standard".


The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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Reply #92 posted 01/18/19 2:39am

bonatoc

avatar

Free2BMe said:

bonatoc said:


The more discomforting the thought he found solace in the company of kids.
You're either Peter Pan, or you're not. It doesn't match with the performance-obsessed guy
who wrote 100 millions on his mirror to motivate himself. That's not an innocent or pure intent.

What I find disconcerting is that people are either too ignorant, lazy or unaware that Michael didn’t just find solace in the company of kids. Michael hung out with Chris Tucker, Steve Harvey, Elizabeth Taylor, Gregory Peck and his wife, Jane Fonda, Sophia Loren, Teddy Riley, Nelson Mandela, etc. Just because you don’t know about these ADULTS, doesn’t mean that he only hung out kids and their FAMILIES. Let me emphasize to you again, that the kids who came to Neverland were their with their FAMILIES. His nieces and nephews were their all the time. HUNDREDS of inner city kids were invited to NEVERLAND with their parents, chaperones and sponsors. Everything that I am saying is easily verified by video footage. Seriously, you and other skeptical people need to do your research before you accuse or ASSUME that you know something. I can guaranteed you thst you really don’t know anything. It would like me assuming something about you,when I know nothing. confused


Unless it's CCTV, you do realize that video footage is like a 1000th of real life
(which is not "real" anyway, the very presence of a camera distorting it).
But OK, the very, very small number of plaintiffs compared to the many Neverland visitors
seem to indicate that the ones who got in court were actual blackmail gold diggers.

But you know that naysayers will conspire anyways and say he bought them all.
Either that, or he wasn't that astute of a businessman.


[Edited 1/18/19 2:41am]

The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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Reply #93 posted 01/18/19 3:45am

PatrickS77

avatar

bonatoc said:


Like settling out of court for 23 millions,
starting a depression that lasted for years and ended up taking his life away,
when he should have give them the sparkling finger?

First of all. It was not his money. It was his insurance company's money. Second of all. It made the shit go away. It made the Chandler's go away, because they got what they wanted. It made the threat of having to sit in court for a year, putting his life on hold, having his live dissected in public and maybe losing, which would have resulted in costing him much more and would have compromised any criminal trial that might have followed, go away. It was a short term, easy and quick solution (brought on by his lawyers and advisors). He sucessfully carried on with his life. So it was a good business desicion at the time, because, really, people believe what they want to believe, regardless of the outcome of a trial, see the '05 trial. So it didn't matter. Until another set of low lifes entered his life and tried the same shit again. But who's to say that wouldn't have happened either way? In hindsight (almost) everyone is wiser and knows it better.

[Edited 1/18/19 7:45am]

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Reply #94 posted 01/18/19 3:50am

PatrickS77

avatar

mechanicalemotion17 said:

Why repeatedly put yourself in a position where things can be misconstrued? Especially after the first accusation.

Why give a shit what other people think?? And to be fearful of everything? Is that really a way to live your life? He had nothing to hide, so that's why he was open in his admission that he enjoys the company of kids and continued to enjoy their company. In itself there is nothing wrong with that. It's just a shame that among the many people he surrounded himself with, there were some fucked up people, who have no morals or shame at all.

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Reply #95 posted 01/18/19 3:55am

PatrickS77

avatar

mechanicalemotion17 said:

bboy87 said:

a) in the group, yes he was the youngest of the 5. He was 5 when they added him to the group and 9 when they signed to Motown.

Jackie was 16
Tito was 14

Jermaine was 13
Marlon was 11.

b) to the fans, press and those at Motown. People at the label like Suzanne DePasse have said Michael was the main focus, Jermaine was 2nd in attention, and Jackie, Tito, and Marlon were kinda, "just there". He had the most responsibility and had to the most work.

at 9:35

[Edited 1/15/19 14:01pm]

Michael was 11 when their first song was released on Motown

And 9 when their first single "Big Boy" was released and even younger when they began touring in night clubs and talent shows. He always was the youngest and maybe too young for all of that.

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Reply #96 posted 01/18/19 5:34am

ChocolateBox31
21

avatar

EmmaMcG said:

ChocolateBox3121 said:

I just don't understand why this trend of bringing back up old accusations of VERY successful black artist is coming from?The fans are still going to buy their muziq & keep them close to their hearts 11cgoz5.jpg

Either way IT NEEDS TO STOP! The press BETTER NOT bring this up to Janet at her induction either.

[Edited 1/17/19 21:05pm]

I actually agree with you there about the new trend of bringing up old accusations but it's not just black folks that this is done to. It's everyone. Nobody is allowed to make a mistake anymore. The media, or to be more specific, social media, won't allow it. Which is especially worrying when you consider that Michael Jackson was found not guilty and this shit still gets brought up. It's not like he was caught on camera actually doing it, like R Kelly. I don't see this documentary having much, if any, impact on Janet's Hall of fame induction though. Her career is not defined by the success of her brother.

prince

[Edited 2/9/19 19:52pm]

"4 all of us, life is death without adventure,& adventure only comes 2 those who are willing 2 b daring & take chances."prince 1985
Well, eye can't b played a person tryna play me, plays themselves prince 1998
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Reply #97 posted 01/18/19 7:41am

MotownSubdivis
ion

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EmmaMcG said:

ChocolateBox3121 said:



EmmaMcG said:


ChocolateBox3121 said:

I wish this could have waited and been aired AFTER March, after my Janet gets inducted. Hopefully it won't overshadow her induction ceremony.



Hahaha. Yeah, they better make sure they get their priorities right.

I just don't understand why this trend of bringing back up old accusations of VERY successful black artist is coming from?The fans are still going to buy their muziq & keep them close to their hearts 11cgoz5.jpg







Either way IT NEEDS TO STOP! The press BETTER NOT bring this up to Janet at her induction either.


[Edited 1/17/19 21:05pm]



I actually agree with you there about the new trend of bringing up old accusations but it's not just black folks that this is done to. It's everyone. Nobody is allowed to make a mistake anymore. The media, or to be more specific, social media, won't allow it. Which is especially worrying when you consider that Michael Jackson was found not guilty and this shit still gets brought up. It's not like he was caught on camera actually doing it, like R Kelly.

I don't see this documentary having much, if any, impact on Janet's Hall of fame induction though. Her career is not defined by the success of her brother.
True, it's not just black celebs on the receiving end of this outrage culture. However,it's usually black celebs who are quick to be taken down and made an example of (i.e. Bill Cosby VS Harvey Weinstein).
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Reply #98 posted 01/18/19 9:09am

bonatoc

avatar

MotownSubdivision said:

EmmaMcG said:
I actually agree with you there about the new trend of bringing up old accusations but it's not just black folks that this is done to. It's everyone. Nobody is allowed to make a mistake anymore. The media, or to be more specific, social media, won't allow it. Which is especially worrying when you consider that Michael Jackson was found not guilty and this shit still gets brought up. It's not like he was caught on camera actually doing it, like R Kelly. I don't see this documentary having much, if any, impact on Janet's Hall of fame induction though. Her career is not defined by the success of her brother.
True, it's not just black celebs on the receiving end of this outrage culture. However,it's usually black celebs who are quick to be taken down and made an example of (i.e. Bill Cosby VS Harvey Weinstein).


Are we going to use this in the race wars now, as if they weren't bad enough to start with?

What makes you say Cosby got a worse treatment than Weinstein? Cosby had decades left alone making tons of money before he got in trouble. So had Weinstein. It looks to me like the Weinstein case had much more press coverage: the guy was pulverized, and so were Louis C.K. and Spacey. I don't see a discrepancy here.

Remember Dominique Strauss-Kahn? Even if Nafissatou Diallo fucked up afterwards, the man destined to become France's next president was handcuffed on the spot and lost the country (and his political career). If we were living in a world where white men have a pass at whatever they want to do, we would never have heard about it. There are no conspiracies, just silences (or false testimonies) that you can buy (if you have enough cash/power).

The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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Reply #99 posted 01/18/19 3:55pm

Free2BMe

PatrickS77 said:



mechanicalemotion17 said:



Why repeatedly put yourself in a position where things can be misconstrued? Especially after the first accusation.


Why give a shit what other people think?? And to be fearful of everything? Is that really a way to live your life? He had nothing to hide, so that's why he was open in his admission that he enjoys the company of kids and continued to enjoy their company. In itself there is nothing wrong with that. It's just a shame that among the many people he surrounded himself with, there were some fucked up people, who have no morals or shame at all.



You are correct. Lisa Marie said that Michael always said that he had not done anything wrong, so why stop allowing children and their families from visiting his bedroom? Only sick minded people equates an adult being around children with something sexual. Of course, there are adults who abuse children, usually a family member or the so-called “normal member of society”. Common sense should tell intelligent and rational people that a pedophile would NOT publicly announce that children and families visit his bedroom/game room.
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Reply #100 posted 01/18/19 4:00pm

Free2BMe

bonatoc said:



Free2BMe said:


bonatoc said:



The more discomforting the thought he found solace in the company of kids.
You're either Peter Pan, or you're not. It doesn't match with the performance-obsessed guy
who wrote 100 millions on his mirror to motivate himself. That's not an innocent or pure intent.



What I find disconcerting is that people are either too ignorant, lazy or unaware that Michael didn’t just find solace in the company of kids. Michael hung out with Chris Tucker, Steve Harvey, Elizabeth Taylor, Gregory Peck and his wife, Jane Fonda, Sophia Loren, Teddy Riley, Nelson Mandela, etc. Just because you don’t know about these ADULTS, doesn’t mean that he only hung out kids and their FAMILIES. Let me emphasize to you again, that the kids who came to Neverland were their with their FAMILIES. His nieces and nephews were their all the time. HUNDREDS of inner city kids were invited to NEVERLAND with their parents, chaperones and sponsors. Everything that I am saying is easily verified by video footage. Seriously, you and other skeptical people need to do your research before you accuse or ASSUME that you know something. I can guaranteed you thst you really don’t know anything. It would like me assuming something about you,when I know nothing. confused


Well calm down, Honey. I'm here to learn. You can school me without yelling.
I'm playing the devil's advocate to find out some truth.
The web being the junkyard it has become, pardon me for searching in here. It's quicker.



Sweetness, I am calm. I don’t equate capital letters, in order to emphasize certain words, as screaming. I know this younger generation is very “sensitive” and thinks everything is yelling. Lol, if I ever post in all capital letters, then you can call that yelling.
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Reply #101 posted 01/18/19 4:34pm

purple05

mechanicalemotion17 said:

Free2BMe said:



Surely, you know that these kids played on the amusement rides, train, swimming pool, went to the movie theater that were all on the property at Neverland. They weren’t in Michael’s room 24/7. You seem to be saying that a man can’t play with kids without something sexual going on. Least you forget, Michael’s three children were also at Neverland at one time. Are you saying that a 30 or 40 year man can’t have a pillow fight or play with his kids, his nieces/ nephews and other kids without being sexually attracted to them. How sad if you or anyone else thinks that way.I don’t know if you have children, if you do, I would hope that people wouldn’t think you playing with them means that you are attracted to them sexually. Can you imagine how that would completely destroy you? Think about what you just posted and put yourself in Michael’s place. Being innocent and people accusing you of a heinous act, when you know that you are 1000% innocent. neutral

Why repeatedly put yourself in a position where things can be misconstrued? Especially after the first accusation.

The only accusation that happened after he went to trial for. These men are saying this happened before and around the time of the first accusation
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Reply #102 posted 01/18/19 4:36pm

purple05

mechanicalemotion17 said:

bboy87 said:



onlyforaminute said:


PatrickS77 said:



a) Michael was younger than his sibblings
b) Michael always was the center of attention
c) Everyone reacts differently to a certain set of circumstances



a. Not quite b. Maybe on stage to fans c. True but there can be a host of other explanations too

a) in the group, yes he was the youngest of the 5. He was 5 when they added him to the group and 9 when they signed to Motown.


Jackie was 16
Tito was 14


Jermaine was 13
Marlon was 11.



b) to the fans, press and those at Motown. People at the label like Suzanne DePasse have said Michael was the main focus, Jermaine was 2nd in attention, and Jackie, Tito, and Marlon were kinda, "just there". He had the most responsibility and had to the most work.



at 9:35



[Edited 1/15/19 14:01pm]



Michael was 11 when their first song was released on Motown

But they were signed and started recording 67/68. Most of those early singles were recorded when he was 10
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Reply #103 posted 01/18/19 7:42pm

MotownSubdivis
ion

avatar

bonatoc said:



MotownSubdivision said:


EmmaMcG said:
I actually agree with you there about the new trend of bringing up old accusations but it's not just black folks that this is done to. It's everyone. Nobody is allowed to make a mistake anymore. The media, or to be more specific, social media, won't allow it. Which is especially worrying when you consider that Michael Jackson was found not guilty and this shit still gets brought up. It's not like he was caught on camera actually doing it, like R Kelly. I don't see this documentary having much, if any, impact on Janet's Hall of fame induction though. Her career is not defined by the success of her brother.

True, it's not just black celebs on the receiving end of this outrage culture. However,it's usually black celebs who are quick to be taken down and made an example of (i.e. Bill Cosby VS Harvey Weinstein).


Are we going to use this in the race wars now, as if they weren't bad enough to start with?

What makes you say Cosby got a worse treatment than Weinstein? Cosby had decades left alone making tons of money before he got in trouble. So had Weinstein. It looks to me like the Weinstein case had much more press coverage: the guy was pulverized, and so were Louis C.K. and Spacey. I don't see a discrepancy here.

Remember Dominique Strauss-Kahn? Even if Nafissatou Diallo fucked up afterwards, the man destined to become France's next president was handcuffed on the spot and lost the country (and his political career). If we were living in a world where white men have a pass at whatever they want to do, we would never have heard about it. There are no conspiracies, just silences (or false testimonies) that you can buy (if you have enough cash/power).

Cosby was convicted over accusations from nearly 50 years ago, Weinstein wasn't convicted at all.

Also, I never said all white guys get a pass, I specifically stated "it's usually black celebs who are quick to be taken down", logic which can be applied to how Cosby was handled VS how Weinstein was.
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Reply #104 posted 01/18/19 11:50pm

bboy87

avatar

mechanicalemotion17 said:

bboy87 said:

a) in the group, yes he was the youngest of the 5. He was 5 when they added him to the group and 9 when they signed to Motown.

Jackie was 16
Tito was 14

Jermaine was 13
Marlon was 11.

b) to the fans, press and those at Motown. People at the label like Suzanne DePasse have said Michael was the main focus, Jermaine was 2nd in attention, and Jackie, Tito, and Marlon were kinda, "just there". He had the most responsibility and had to the most work.

at 9:35

[Edited 1/15/19 14:01pm]

Michael was 11 when their first song was released on Motown

Yes but they auditioned in July 1968 and signed to the label shortly after

"We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world."
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Reply #105 posted 01/19/19 11:52am

PatrickS77

avatar

MotownSubdivision said:

Cosby was convicted over accusations from nearly 50 years ago, Weinstein wasn't convicted at all.

Also, I never said all white guys get a pass, I specifically stated "it's usually black celebs who are quick to be taken down", logic which can be applied to how Cosby was handled VS how Weinstein was.


Unlike Cosby, Weinstein hadn't had his trial yet (he has just been charged and is awaiting trial). You can't be convicted without a trial. But Weinstein has been taken down too. He's out of every position and membership he had.
[Edited 1/19/19 11:54am]
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Reply #106 posted 01/19/19 4:18pm

TheGloved1

I'll say, Jimmy Safechuck has a pretty sad story. I don't think a lot of fans are aware of it and many (not all) seem to be focusing in on Wade Robson since his credibility is shot after testifying that nothing happened.

I certainly hope he didn't do it, but MJ's behavior did him no favors in the court of public opnion. (not his fans, but the public) Nobody has even seen the documentary yet.

I think reasonable adults should keep an open mind about the accusations and at least watch to discern what they may believe to be the truth. A possible victim claiming sexual abuse deserves at least that.

For instance, I've never been sure of what happened with the first boy, whether or not a line was crossed. So I won't say he did or didn't do it, whereas I believe justice was served in the

2005 trial. But that has no bearing on what may or may not have happened in 1993 or with Safechuck and Robson.

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Reply #107 posted 01/19/19 4:28pm

HAPPYPERSON

Michael Jackson And Wade Robson: The Real Story

Published on Jan 17, 2019
SUBSCRIBE 1.5K
A comprehensive discussion of Wade Robson's allegations against Michael Jackson: https://themichaeljacksonallegations.... … At the end of each chapter, you find our sources, including court motions and depositions. A downloadable PDF version: …https://themichaeljacksonallegationsb... … A shorter, summary version of Wade Robson's allegations against Michael Jackson: https://themichaeljacksonallegations.... … For a discussion of the 1993 Jordan Chandler allegations see https://themichaeljacksonallegations.... … For a discussion of the 2005 Gavin Arvizo trial see: https://themichaeljacksonallegations.... … Shorter, summary versions: https://themichaeljacksonallegations.... … The short versions of the Chandler, Arvizo and Robson allegations in downloadable PDF: …https://themichaeljacksonallegationsb...

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Reply #108 posted 01/19/19 5:32pm

Free2BMe

HAPPYPERSON said:

Michael Jackson And Wade Robson: The Real Story








Published on Jan 17, 2019

SUBSCRIBE 1.5K



A comprehensive discussion of Wade Robson's allegations against Michael Jackson: https://themichaeljacksonallegations.... … At the end of each chapter, you find our sources, including court motions and depositions. A downloadable PDF version: …https://themichaeljacksonallegationsb... … A shorter, summary version of Wade Robson's allegations against Michael Jackson: https://themichaeljacksonallegations.... … For a discussion of the 1993 Jordan Chandler allegations see https://themichaeljacksonallegations.... … For a discussion of the 2005 Gavin Arvizo trial see: https://themichaeljacksonallegations.... … Shorter, summary versions: https://themichaeljacksonallegations.... … The short versions of the Chandler, Arvizo and Robson allegations in downloadable PDF: …https://themichaeljacksonallegationsb...





Thank you for posting this. I already knew about all of these things; however, I am so glad that you posted this in this forum. Hopefully, you will post/ share this in many other places. I also hope this will school people who have only been fed lies, rumors and innuendo. Michael’s goodness and kindness was reflected in his humanitarian and philanthropy. His music influenced and continues to influence children and adults.

In his will, he stipulated that one-third of his money would go to children’s charities and others. I will never forget Frank Dileo saying that in every city that Michael visited or toured, he would visit children hospitals. Frank said that he himself couldn’t handle looking at all of the critically ill children; but, he said Michael would visit each child, bring them gifts and cheer them up. After, he left he would have tears in his eyes.

IMO, Michael was truly too good for this fucked up world. He gave millions and millions to charity while was alive and is now doing the same in death. He did so much to help people that has not even been revealed to the public yet.
The sick bastards that accused him with these false allegations took his genuine and pure love for children and turned it into something perverted. This killed Michael as much as the murderer Conrad Murray did.
[Edited 1/19/19 17:36pm]
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Reply #109 posted 01/19/19 7:00pm

Goddess4Real

avatar

Michael Jackson Leaving Neverland documentary and why we shouldn't be free to destroy the reputations of the dead https://www.cornwalllive....ry-2438824

Even without evidence we are free to say whatever we want about those who have passed away - and that isn't right

When anguished pop superstar Michael Jackson died some ten years ago there was hope in many quarters that he had found peace at last.

But even in death, scandal continues to torment him. First came the ongoing controversy over the legitimacy of three songs on a posthumous album.

Then, in May 2013, a choreographer who Jackson befriended in the late 1980s went on television to allege that he had been sexually abused by Jackson when he was a child.

The man, Wade Robson, had previously testified under oath in defence of Jackson in the 2005 child molestation trial, claiming Jackson had “never” touched him.

But when Jackson was no longer around to defend himself, Robson changed his mind, citing a repressed memory. He was later joined in his accusations by another young Jackson friend, James Safechuck.

Robson and Safechuck sued Michael Jackson's Estate and then the companies it controlled. But in December 2017 a judge dismissed the lawsuit, ruling that they had filed it too late.

The Michael Jackson Estate claimed it was “always about the money rather than a search for the truth".

But Robson and Safechuck weren’t done there. Last week, news broke that HBO and Channel 4 had produced a documentary accusing Jackson of sexually abusing pair of young boys.

Titled Leaving Neverland, the two-part film will debut at the famed Sundance Film Festival in Utah, USA, later this month and then air on the respective networks this spring.

“Two boys, now in their 30s, tell the story of how they were sexually abused by Jackson, and how they came to terms with it years later,” the synopsis said.

Anyone reading this who has no knowledge of these accusers and their case would assume this abuse happened as a matter of fact.

But there is zero evidence that it did, these are merely claims.

Jackson can’t defend himself and his estate and family possess no powers to stop the documentary from being released.

Everything under the sun can be said by the media about dead individuals like Jackson and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

So why is it that we are free to destroy the reputations of those who are no longer with us?

Under law in the UK and the US, the dead cannot be defamed. This is because the view is that reputation is a personal right which ceases to exist when a person dies and it can no longer be damaged.

Defamation is also deemed to be a personal legal action which cannot be assigned or brought on someone’s behalf.

But while Jackson might be dead there’s still a huge amount at stake.

Most importantly the impact of such heinous allegations on his children, who will be profoundly affected by more assertions that their father was a child abuser.

Jackson’s reputation around the globe also made a steady recovery since that damaging trial in 2005 which saw him acquitted of all charges.

When Jackson announced his mega comeback in early 2009 he was viewed as the King of Pop once more and his death only enhanced that notion further. Now people speak more of Jackson’s music and legacy than the circus that was his personal life.

But this documentary will undo much of that progress.

So is there any hope for the family? As relatives of Jackson do they have

Interestingly, when ruling on a case in 2014 ( Putitstin v Ukraine ) in which the applicant complained that his dead father had been defamed in an article, the European Court of Human Rights accepted that the reputation of a deceased member of a person’s family may come within the scope of article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights.

This is because the reputation may, in certain circumstances, affect a living relative’s right to respect for a private and family life.

In the case of Putitstin v Ukraine the applicant lost the case on the grounds that the impact on him was very little.

While rejecting the case the court said that a claim on the basis of breaching a person’s rights to a private and family life could have succeeded.

But although the European Court has considered a number of cases that related to the reputations of deceased individuals, as yet, none have succeeded.

I can hear the chorus of cries - what about Jimmy Savile? Yes, it was only in death that his horrific crimes were truly uncovered and that his victims felt able to come forward

But there’s a marked difference.

After Savile’s death police launched a criminal investigation into allegations of child sex abuse spanning six decades.

Officers pursued more than 400 lines of inquiry based on the testimony of 300 potential victims from 14 police forces across the UK.

If the authorities were investigating Jackson post-death, if there was evidence of wrongdoing this would be an entirely different scenario. There could be no complaints.

But the media have a responsibility to ensure that what is published or broadcast is true.

Without the evidence how can HBO and Channel 4 be sure that Robson and Safechuck were indeed abused?

Of course the grievances of relatives, and fans in this case, should not have an impact on the uncovering of uncomfortable truths through investigative journalism.

But therein lies the problem - no investigative journalism or police investigation has uncovered any wrongdoing by Jackson.

So even in the absence of evidence, the media has the power to make the world believe that people like Jackson are sinister characters. That doesn’t sit right with me.


Keep Calm & Listen To Prince
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Reply #110 posted 01/20/19 4:41am

gandorb

bonatoc said:

Free2BMe said:

bonatoc said: Man, you really have been brainwashed by tabloid/media lies!What awkard body language with Brooke Shields? Every single photo of Michael and Brooke Shields together, they were smiling and happy. It was also obvious that Michael and Lisa Marie were a couple and happy. In fact, one of Elvis associates said that he had never seen Lisa Marie happier than when she was with Michael. After she and Michael divorced, Lisa did everything she could to get him back, and it didn’t work. Michael did an interview with TVGuide and admitted that Lisa told him, she wished that she had given birth to his son, Prince. Michael didn’t pay Debbie to have his children, she offered to have his children when Lisa decided that she wasn’t ready.Btw, Lisa publicly declared that she was ready to start a family with Michael. Lisa knew that Michael wanted to have children.She deceived Michael and he turned to Debbie, who was with him BEFORE Lisa Marie. Debbie loved Michael and wanted to have his children. Debbie had a miscarriage with her and Michael’s first child. This is before she and Michael married. Let’s not forget that she was Michael’s WIFE when his first son,Prince Michael,was born. Of course, the tabloids lied and said that he paid her to have his children. He didn’t have to pay Debbie, she wanted him to have children and she has always been vocal about that. When they divorced, she received a divorce settlement, just as every other spouse does. This had crap to do with him paying her to have his children.Why try to act as if Michael and Debbie were different with their divorce any other couple?


Calm down, no one is brainwashed. You seem to know your subject and I am listening to you.
I just point out how easy it is for the general public and opinion to join the angry crowd.
Usually, an adult only sleeps with children when there's just one room available, and circumstances force the situation.

I personally do not deny Michael's the possiblity of purity of intention, but as a sane (define "sane") adult
with kids I would frown, and that's an euphemism, upon another adult sleeping repeatedly with one of my children.
Sexual relationships or not, it just doesn't compute, and provide a justifiable basis for documentaries such as this one.

If Joe and Katherine fucked with his mind to such extent he felt compelled to regress into childhood or adolescent behaviours,
any entourage not perverted by money and prestige would have advised a long-term pyschoanalysis and therapy.
But here we seem to have the usual yes-men and enablers, and, while we are very far from the R. Kelly's situation,
it's still disturbing to think many people didn't blink at a grown-up adult going to bed with kids, clothed or not,
playing innocently or not. There is clearly a huge distortion caused by fame and power here.

I hear you, Botanic. It really does make him more vulnerable to speculation, guilty or not.

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Reply #111 posted 01/20/19 6:43am

ThatWhiteDude

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gandorb said:

bonatoc said:


Calm down, no one is brainwashed. You seem to know your subject and I am listening to you.
I just point out how easy it is for the general public and opinion to join the angry crowd.
Usually, an adult only sleeps with children when there's just one room available, and circumstances force the situation.

I personally do not deny Michael's the possiblity of purity of intention, but as a sane (define "sane") adult
with kids I would frown, and that's an euphemism, upon another adult sleeping repeatedly with one of my children.
Sexual relationships or not, it just doesn't compute, and provide a justifiable basis for documentaries such as this one.

If Joe and Katherine fucked with his mind to such extent he felt compelled to regress into childhood or adolescent behaviours,
any entourage not perverted by money and prestige would have advised a long-term pyschoanalysis and therapy.
But here we seem to have the usual yes-men and enablers, and, while we are very far from the R. Kelly's situation,
it's still disturbing to think many people didn't blink at a grown-up adult going to bed with kids, clothed or not,
playing innocently or not. There is clearly a huge distortion caused by fame and power here.

I hear you, Botanic. It really does make him more vulnerable to speculation, guilty or not.

falloff I'm sorry for laughing. ohgoon

"Like books and BLACK LIVES, Albums still MATTER."


"Extra cheese, extra HAM, extra bullshit" -DiminutiveRocker
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Reply #112 posted 01/20/19 8:04am

bonatoc

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The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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Reply #113 posted 01/22/19 10:14pm

Goddess4Real

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A nice idea about MJ"s nephew (Taj Jackson) trying to raise $770,000 for a rebuttal docuseries on the false allegations......however, why do the fans have to fund this, when the Jacksons and the MJ estate is loaded with $$$$$$ Also if this doesn't get made will there refunds? hmmm https://www.gofundme.com/...ary-series

Untitled Michael Jackson Documentary Series

CALL TO ARMS:

MJ fam - here we are in 2019, the 10-year anniversary of my Uncle's passing. We all knew this would be a difficult year for so many of us worldwide. Instead of being able to mourn and properly celebrate and honor Michael Jackson, we are, again, being forced to educate the media and the general public with the evidence-based truth about him.
Once again, we have to defend Michael Jackson's name and legacy from vicious and calculated lies. We can no longer sit back and wait for the 'right thing' to be reported or for someone else to step in and champion our cause. This is on us – fans, friends and family. I know that the unanimous acquittals and the FBI's 10-year investigation (resulting in my Uncle’s complete exoneration) should have been enough. The worst thing we can do is let this continued slander go unchallenged.
I know that when we as a group are united, we are unstoppable.
So I need your help.

BACKGROUND:


Michael Jackson was arguably the greatest musical entertainer of all time. His success and influence was felt all over the world, from the US to the UK, from India to Egypt. He broke down racial barriers and changed culture forever. He was one of the most famous human beings who ever lived. For the last 15 years of his life he was subjected to false, malicious allegations of child abuse. He successfully defended himself against those allegations and died an innocent and exonerated man, but they took their toll nonetheless.

Years after he was killed by his doctor, two men who had resolutely defended Michael's innocence in life, tried and failed, to win financial settlements from his posthumous estate. After having their bogus abuse allegations (undermined by a wealth of evidence demonstrating the contrary) dismissed by the court, they have now turned to HBO, the UK's Channel 4 and the Sundance Film Festival. These three reputable organizations have sadly compromised their Brand’s integrity by announcing they will provide a platform for a 'documentary', through which these two accusers - who have accrued large legal debts to the estate they tried and failed to extort - are still seeking to profit from their already discredited stories.

Michael Jackson died an innocent, vindicated man. The world needs to understand this most important and basic fact. The world also needs to understand the damage that is done to legitimate victims of abuse when self-confessed liars are not only allowed to profit from false allegations, but are given a platform to pontificate their fraudulent claims.
In an effort to settle this injustice - and to create a historic tome that will be a resource for anyone interested and willing to learn THE TRUTH about Michael Jackson’s indisputable innocence– I’m creating a documentary series that explodes the myths once and for all.


ABOUT THE DOCUMENTARY SERIES:

This explosive documentary series will conclusively destroy decades of salacious myths which have been told and sold about Michael Jackson ad nauseam. In doing so, we will shine a light on the corruption within the media and entertainment industries which conceived and perpetuated them. Falsehoods like:

“I heard Michael Jackson paid a settlement to avoid a criminal trial for child abuse” Wrong.

“I heard the boy described Michael Jackson’s genitalia accurately” Wrong.

“I heard Michael Jackson paid over 200 million to as many as 20 victims” Wrong.

Almost everything the public thinks it knows about Michael Jackson is wrong.

For decades, the media has dealt in sensationalized stories about the King of Pop. Could you blame them? He is, quite simply, the biggest celebrity the world has ever known. Those sensationalized stories earned the media billions of dollars.

But at what cost?

Michael has been dead now for almost a decade, but many of the most damaging fake stories remain part of the public consciousness, causing continual damage to his legacy – not to mention his children, who have had to grow up watching the world embrace and perpetuate these horrific falsehoods. Tarnished again by HBO, Channel 4 and the Sundance Film Festival, all of whom have gone into business with two proven liars and purgers who are seeking to personally profit from already discredited abuse allegations.

The time has come to take action and formally correct the record - before it's too late. The history books are already being written and many of them read like grim fairy tales. Provable falsehoods are recycled time and again as facts. Remember, we only know Mozart, Bach, Debussy or Beethoven by what we have read from available resources. Hundreds of years from now, people will look up Michael Jackson's name and music. We owe it to future generations to provide a resource, built on evidence-based facts, that will stand the test of time.

This documentary series will be the definitive historic record of the most discussed aspects of Michael Jackson's private life, placing the most controversial stories under the microscope, tracing their origins and dissecting how and why the media's narrative diverged from the truth. Unlike decades of sleazy tabloid stories, which were propped up by washed-up former friends and employees in return for fat paychecks from the media, this documentary series will feature exclusive interviews with first-hand witnesses who have never spoken publicly before and are doing so now purely out of a desire to set the record straight, not because somebody has offered them $50,000 to say something controversial. The series will also draw on thousands of pages of official, legal documents, which tell a completely different story then the one which played out on tabloid newspapers’ front pages.

The episodes will not sugarcoat Michael's difficult life. He experienced a lot of physical and emotional pain and that had sad repercussions. To deny that would be just as dishonest as the media's sensationalist version of events.

Equally, this series will not shy away from pointing the finger of blame for many of Michael's darkest hours where it truly belongs. It will reveal how Michael was betrayed, entrapped, extorted and abused throughout his life> You will hear the stories that the media never bothered to tell you about because of their obsessive preoccupation of mercilessly bullying and ridiculing him.

What's the real story behind the 1993 sexual abuse claim?

What is the real truth about that 1994 settlement?

What really happened in the courtroom during his 2005 trial?

What is the real motivation and who are the players behind Wade Robson and Jimmy Safechuck?

And, crucially, how - and why - did the media mislead you at every turn?

The answers to these questions will shock and disgust you. In fact, this series could prove to be the most searing exposé of media and showbiz corruption that the world has ever seen.


FUNDING:

“Why should I donate? Can't so and so fund this?”

While trying to secure funding, I have looked into several alternative opportunities and scenarios. Unfortunately , any corporation and/or outlet with the available funding would, most probably, want creative and editorial input. The purpose of this project is to present a factual delivery of events from people that lived it and knew it - including me.

Unfortunately, experience have left me mistrustful of external influences and I know the majority of you feel the same. Michael Jackson's true history needs to be told without manipulation and restrictions. We need to be able to tell the story, free and clear, without biased media.

WHO I AM:

I am the oldest nephew of Michael Jackson. I had the privilege to have grown up extremely close to my uncle and was always a loyal friend and ally to him throughout his entire life. I also had a front seat to what the negative media and allegations put him through. I lived with him during the whole 2005 trial.

As a sexual abuse victim (from my uncle Chuck on my mom’s side of the family), I know what it means to be a survivor. I also know what kind of damage sexual misconduct leaves upon the victims. This unique position makes me even more determined and qualified to make the truth, the whole truth known about my uncle Michael’s false allegations.

My uncle’s last words to me were…
“After this, we’re doing films.”
Never did I think that a decade later necessity would require me to direct a film about his proven innocence.


WHEN WILL THIS BE DONE:

My plan is to start immediately and have the series completed as quickly as possible. This will be a huge undertaking for me, especially with a 2 month old baby girl. However it is also my absolute honor and I feel duty-bound to dedicate 2019 to setting the record straight with this series.

WHAT ARE WE GOING TO USE THE MONEY FOR:

As many of you will know, a documentary of this size and scale will not be cheap.

What will your contribution help to fund?

- Hiring key players for the production team.
- Travel expenses for filmed interviews and meetings.
- Verifying stories and new information.
- Securing licensing and video clips.
- Video and audio editing.
- A comprehensive, international marketing and PR campaign (live and digital) that will make it impossible for audiences, targeted and otherwise, to ignore.
- Distribution, locally and internationally.


MJFam, this is what we have been waiting for and the time is now. Join me on this crusade to bring justice, once and for all, to the legacy of Michael Jackson.



“Lies run sprints, but the truth runs marathons.”—Michael Jackson

[Edited 1/22/19 22:17pm]

Keep Calm & Listen To Prince
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Reply #114 posted 01/23/19 1:02pm

PatrickS77

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^^Part of me thinks, this is cool. Part of me thinks, his family are fucking millionaires. Why don't they just finance it themselves? Or get some celebrity friends to chip in. Another part of me (no pun intended) thinks, every critic or "hater" will dismiss this documentary as being biased, since Michael's nephew is behind it.

[Edited 1/23/19 15:57pm]

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Reply #115 posted 01/23/19 2:24pm

EmmaMcG

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PatrickS77 said:

^^Part of me thinks, this is cool. Part of me thinks, his family are fucking millionaires. Why don't they just finance it themselves? Or get some celebrity friends to chip in. Another part of me thinks, every critic or "hater" will dismiss this documentary as being biased, since Michael's nephew is behind it.



All parts of you are correct.
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Reply #116 posted 01/23/19 7:48pm

BlaqueKnight

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Hudson said:

This documentary is going to be supported by metoo/timesup, and the fans need to prepare.

And it will be another nail in their coffins like the Aziz fiasco.

Its too bad that organizations put together to help real cases have been overrun by Hollywood fakes and frauds trying to become victim famous.

There are people who have really been molested and raped who will have their stories questioned because of these charlatans.

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Reply #117 posted 01/23/19 8:13pm

Goddess4Real

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EmmaMcG said:

PatrickS77 said:

^^Part of me thinks, this is cool. Part of me thinks, his family are fucking millionaires. Why don't they just finance it themselves? Or get some celebrity friends to chip in. Another part of me thinks, every critic or "hater" will dismiss this documentary as being biased, since Michael's nephew is behind it.

All parts of you are correct.

yeahthat Also by the time this doco is released (if it ever gets completed), the damage will be done. Over the years the Jackson family and the MJ estate have had no problem promoting themselves and their products, surely they can defend MJ now, especially since both Janet (The MTV tribute in 2009) and Jermaine (You Are Not Alone in 2011) have worked with Rob$on since MJ's death. Because being silent doesn't work anymore, especially in this #MeToo climate, which Rob$on and co are so banking on, in order to make some $$$$$ and trash MJ's legacy once and for all.

[Edited 1/23/19 20:15pm]

Keep Calm & Listen To Prince
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Reply #118 posted 01/23/19 9:12pm

bboy87

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Goddess4Real said:

EmmaMcG said:

PatrickS77 said: All parts of you are correct.

yeahthat Also by the time this doco is released (if it ever gets completed), the damage will be done. Over the years the Jackson family and the MJ estate have had no problem promoting themselves and their products, surely they can defend MJ now, especially since both Janet (The MTV tribute in 2009) and Jermaine (You Are Not Alone in 2011) have worked with Rob$on since MJ's death. Because being silent doesn't work anymore, especially in this #MeToo climate, which Rob$on and co are so banking on, in order to make some $$$$$ and trash MJ's legacy once and for all.

[Edited 1/23/19 20:15pm]

Literally

"We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world."
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Reply #119 posted 01/24/19 4:37am

BlackCat1985

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PatrickS77 said:

^^Part of me thinks, this is cool. Part of me thinks, his family are fucking millionaires. Why don't they just finance it themselves? Or get some celebrity friends to chip in. Another part of me (no pun intended) thinks, every critic or "hater" will dismiss this documentary as being biased, since Michael's nephew is behind it.

[Edited 1/23/19 15:57pm]



The Jackson family isn't a family full of millionaires. I hear people say this all the time. I remember back in the early 90's Latoya let it out that all of the brothers were broke. And only MJ and Janet worked and had money. I don't understand why Michael's estate isn't funding this. The estate is worth over a billion dollars. They could easily fund this. From what I'm seeing most people think this documentary is bullsh*t and the so called victims are out for money. But the media and some people behind the scenes have been trying to tarnish MJ for a very long time. They can't stand to see how even in death this man still had so much influence. It isn't lost on me either that this year is the 10th anniversary of his death.
BlackCat1985
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