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Reply #30 posted 01/13/19 6:51am

bonatoc

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^ that is not the point.
Who cares it the bedroom in question is something akin to Louis XIV bedroom, with public audiences.

The point is an adult going to bed with children or adolescents, and turning the lights off.
"Rational thinking" people? It seems to me that any thinking
was greatly distorted by the simple fact it was Michael Jackson.
No one would be able to think "rationally", and it's understandable.

Now take the same situations and replace "Michael Jackson" with "an uncle"
or "a family's friend", and tell me if you still find the situation "rational".


[Edited 1/13/19 6:51am]

The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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Reply #31 posted 01/13/19 7:22am

Free2BMe

bonatoc said:

^ that is not the point.
Who cares it the bedroom in question is something akin to Louis XIV bedroom, with public audiences.

The point is an adult going to bed with children or adolescents, and turning the lights off.
"Rational thinking" people? It seems to me that any thinking
was greatly distorted by the simple fact it was Michael Jackson.
No one would be able to think "rationally", and it's understandable.

Now take the same situations and replace "Michael Jackson" with "an uncle"
or "a family's friend", and tell me if you still find the situation "rational".


[Edited 1/13/19 6:51am]



Who said the lights were off? The bottomline is that we are not talking about an uncle or family friend. Btw, those are usually the ones who are molesting children-people in your family or family friends. We are talking about families that requested to meet Michael or were invited to Neverland. We are talking about FAMILIES. These families/parents were able to walk into Michael’s room at anytime that they wanted to, when a family member was in his room. The door was not locked. Everyone seemed to want to be in Michael’s room. Even Elizabeth Taylor, a frequent guest at Neverland, said she loved being in his room. Btw, I know of at least three mothers who loved being in his room. One in particular loved being in his bed.

cool
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Reply #32 posted 01/13/19 10:33am

oceanblue

Truth is, we will never know the real truth about the sexual allegations about Michael Jackson, because the only one that knows the real truth, is God, Michael Jackson, and those involved in the accusations, or who knew Michael Jackson personally and intimately, and were really involved in his life. Michael Jackson was a peculiar man, who sometimes did peculiar things, and because of that, many didn't know whether the allegations were true or not, and they still don't know. I think that because of who Michael was ( a naive, somewhat gullible man-boy that didn't seem to want to grow up) and some of the strange things he did, that people will always have a question mark in their minds about him, and what he did or didn't do.

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Reply #33 posted 01/13/19 11:08am

bonatoc

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Still, accusations aside, I don't know anyone who confuses his living-room with his bedroom, or a couch with his bed.
Very happy for the women who found his bed confortable. I still find the behaviour to be odd, to say the least.
There is clearly a lack of boundaries, or understanding of what intimacy is or means.
Again, given Michael's upbringing, kind of understandable. Much less coming from other people,
although I can understand everyone likes to fall back into childhood, and maybe that's what Michael's bedroom was,
an opportunity for everyone entering it to behave like a child.
Yeah, still odd in my book.

The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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Reply #34 posted 01/13/19 11:21am

Free2BMe

oceanblue said:

Truth is, we will never know the real truth about the sexual allegations about Michael Jackson, because the only one that knows the real truth, is God, Michael Jackson, and those involved in the accusations, or who knew Michael Jackson personally and intimately, and were really involved in his life. Michael Jackson was a peculiar man, who sometimes did peculiar things, and because of that, many didn't know whether the allegations were true or not, and they still don't know. I think that because of who Michael was ( a naive, somewhat gullible man-boy that didn't seem to want to grow up) and some of the strange things he did, that people will always have a question mark in their minds about him, and what he did or didn't do.



Truth is that we DO know the truth. The evidence is there all to see, but some people are just too damn lazy to read the FACTs. Some people just want to accept what they THiNK. You can bet that MJ fans and defenders are activists, when it comes to defending Michael. We researched EVERY piece of evidence-pro and con. We know every word that the accuser’s uttered in their accusations, how time lines were altered by the prosecution to fit those accusations, receipts when accuser said one thing and receipts showed another and this is a fraction of what the evidence showed that proved Michael’s innocence. Yes, Michael was too trusting when it came to these grifters and accusers. Being naive or trusting does not equate with being guilty of abuse. The only question mark is from people who WANT to believe that Michael did something wrong and are just too lazy or don’t care about the truth. That’s their problem, not Michael’s. He can’t be hurt anymore;but, his fans will never stop defending his name and pointing out the LIES from scum like Wade Robson, in this latest vendetta.
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Reply #35 posted 01/13/19 11:38am

Free2BMe

bonatoc said:

Still, accusations aside, I don't know anyone who confuses his living-room with his bedroom, or a couch with his bed.
Very happy for the women who found his bed confortable. I still find the behaviour to be odd, to say the least.
There is clearly a lack of boundaries, or understanding of what intimacy is or means.
Again, given Michael's upbringing, kind of understandable. Much less coming from other people,
although I can understand everyone likes to fall back into childhood, and maybe that's what Michael's bedroom was,
an opportunity for everyone entering it to behave like a child.
Yeah, still odd in my book.



Who said anything about confusing a bedroom from a living room or a couch from a bed? We are not speaking of your house or mine. Maybe you only go into your bedroom to sleep and wouldn’t have anyone in it. All of Michael’s nieces, nephews love to go into Michael’s room. That’s the first place people, especially children, would ask to go. Nicole Richie, Lionel’s daughter, said that she was st Neverland as a kid all the time and in Micharl’s room. Only a sick, perverted mind would equate that with sex. I know I wouldn’t be thinking about sex if kids piled in my room and Michael didn’t either. Lisa Marie said kids would do that when she lived at Neverland with Michael.
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Reply #36 posted 01/13/19 11:51am

bonatoc

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Free2BMe said:

bonatoc said:

Still, accusations aside, I don't know anyone who confuses his living-room with his bedroom, or a couch with his bed.
Very happy for the women who found his bed confortable. I still find the behaviour to be odd, to say the least.
There is clearly a lack of boundaries, or understanding of what intimacy is or means.
Again, given Michael's upbringing, kind of understandable. Much less coming from other people,
although I can understand everyone likes to fall back into childhood, and maybe that's what Michael's bedroom was,
an opportunity for everyone entering it to behave like a child.
Yeah, still odd in my book.

Who said anything about confusing a bedroom from a living room or a couch from a bed? We are not speaking of your house or mine. Maybe you only go into your bedroom to sleep and wouldn’t have anyone in it. All of Michael’s nieces, nephews love to go into Michael’s room. That’s the first place people, especially children, would ask to go. Nicole Richie, Lionel’s daughter, said that she was st Neverland as a kid all the time and in Micharl’s room. Only a sick, perverted mind would equate that with sex. I know I wouldn’t be thinking about sex if kids piled in my room and Michael didn’t either. Lisa Marie said kids would do that when she lived at Neverland with Michael.


Sorry for the pun, but there is more to life than seeing it either black or white.
I suggest you ask around you if an adult's bedroom is the room where kids should play.
I think you're in for a shock about how many "sick and perverted mind" (I prefer to call them prudent adults) there are in the world.

It's not about sex, but being able to separate the adult world and the kids world.
But from what I understand Michael's bedroom was literally a kid's bedroom.
Maybe it won't be news to you, but here: kids play pillow fight, and sometimes quite naturally, things get a little tickly tickly.
Innoncent stuff, but the premices of sexual intercourse are there: they are the first innocent forays into sexuality.
While it's OK between kids, I personally cringe at this happening between a 30 year old male and underage kids.
I would gladly believe Michael was an angel and above us all in terms of human needs and urges. But the truth is, no one knows.

The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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Reply #37 posted 01/13/19 12:13pm

Free2BMe

bonatoc said:



Free2BMe said:


bonatoc said:

Still, accusations aside, I don't know anyone who confuses his living-room with his bedroom, or a couch with his bed.
Very happy for the women who found his bed confortable. I still find the behaviour to be odd, to say the least.
There is clearly a lack of boundaries, or understanding of what intimacy is or means.
Again, given Michael's upbringing, kind of understandable. Much less coming from other people,
although I can understand everyone likes to fall back into childhood, and maybe that's what Michael's bedroom was,
an opportunity for everyone entering it to behave like a child.
Yeah, still odd in my book.



Who said anything about confusing a bedroom from a living room or a couch from a bed? We are not speaking of your house or mine. Maybe you only go into your bedroom to sleep and wouldn’t have anyone in it. All of Michael’s nieces, nephews love to go into Michael’s room. That’s the first place people, especially children, would ask to go. Nicole Richie, Lionel’s daughter, said that she was st Neverland as a kid all the time and in Micharl’s room. Only a sick, perverted mind would equate that with sex. I know I wouldn’t be thinking about sex if kids piled in my room and Michael didn’t either. Lisa Marie said kids would do that when she lived at Neverland with Michael.


Sorry for the pun, but there is more to life than seeing it either black or white.
I suggest you ask around you if an adult's bedroom is the room where kids should play.
I think you're in for a shock about how many "sick and perverted mind" (I prefer to call them prudent adults) there are in the world.

It's not about sex, but being able to separate the adult world and the kids world.
But from what I understand Michael's bedroom was literally a kid's bedroom.
Maybe it won't be news to you, but here: kids play pillow fight, and sometimes quite naturally, things get a little tickly tickly.
Innoncent stuff, but the premices of sexual intercourse are there: they are the first innocent forays into sexuality.
While it's OK between kids, I personally cringe at this happening between a 30 year old male and underage kids.
I would gladly believe Michael was an angel and above us all in terms of human needs and urges. But the truth is, no one knows.



Surely, you know that these kids played on the amusement rides, train, swimming pool, went to the movie theater that were all on the property at Neverland. They weren’t in Michael’s room 24/7. You seem to be saying that a man can’t play with kids without something sexual going on. Least you forget, Michael’s three children were also at Neverland at one time. Are you saying that a 30 or 40 year man can’t have a pillow fight or play with his kids, his nieces/ nephews and other kids without being sexually attracted to them. How sad if you or anyone else thinks that way.I don’t know if you have children, if you do, I would hope that people wouldn’t think you playing with them means that you are attracted to them sexually. Can you imagine how that would completely destroy you? Think about what you just posted and put yourself in Michael’s place. Being innocent and people accusing you of a heinous act, when you know that you are 1000% innocent. neutral
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Reply #38 posted 01/13/19 1:03pm

oceanblue

^^"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child, but when I became a man, I put away childish things" 1 Corinthians 13:11......can't deny the truth of that!

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Reply #39 posted 01/13/19 1:25pm

SoulAlive

seems like a dumb,useless,tabloid-ish documentary bored they need to allow Michael to rest in peace

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Reply #40 posted 01/13/19 2:47pm

HAPPYPERSON

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Reply #41 posted 01/13/19 5:20pm

Goddess4Real

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Food for thought hmmm

20h20 hours ago

Ever noticed that allegations tend to follow a pattern? These families worm their way into Michael’s life. He didn’t seek them out. Once they’re in, they feel entitled. From funding of screenplays to access, hospitality, trips, and even a job directing a Cirque du Soleil show.

And only once they’re DENIED the funding, access, hospitality, trips, or the role directing the Cirque production, do they file lawsuits against Michael Jackson and his companies. Go and think about that for a second. They wanted IN! And when they were locked OUT, they sued.

Keep Calm & Listen To Prince
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Reply #42 posted 01/13/19 6:51pm

Free2BMe

oceanblue said:

^^"When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child, but when I became a man, I put away childish things" 1 Corinthians 13:11.....can't deny the truth of that!



Amazing how that scripture applies to a lot of people who are too childish, weak and immature to decipher the truth from lies, innuendo and gossip. It’s a shame that some people think that they are mature and can’t think for themselves. I call them “followers”because they rely on others to think for them. They depend on anything other than the FACTs starring them “in the face”.

FTR, Michael was twice the man of some of these so-called “he-man” types who would have never been able to handle the shit that was thrown at him on a daily basis.
[Edited 1/13/19 18:52pm]
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Reply #43 posted 01/13/19 7:51pm

Dalia11

It is possible that Michael Jackson was sexually abused when he was a child. If someone makes a documentary about that then I would watch that.

"They Don`t Really Care About Us" -Michael Jackson.
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Reply #44 posted 01/13/19 9:42pm

TrcikyChristop
her

TrivialPursuit said:

Org moderator Militant posted a very insightful and truth-filled thread on Twitter last night. It addresses Wade's greedy ass, as well as the other lies by every accuser.

Let's not forget that Wade was "allegedly" banging Mayte and Britney at the same time and Justin found out, leading to Justin and Britney's breakup (sidenote - I wish I could find that old pic of Mayte wearing Wade's name chain like a highschooler). Now Mayte is sticking up for Wade as a "brave" person when he's just a lying sack of shit who got mad he couldn't get the Cirque Du Soleil choreography gig.

It's all sickening.

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Reply #45 posted 01/13/19 10:38pm

purple05

Hudson said:

I remember a juror interview that claimed the majority did believe the accusations, but had to acquit because there was no proof. I personally believe in his innocence, so don't bark at me. But it's lying to say that they all saw through the lies. This documentary is going to be supported by metoo/timesup, and the fans need to prepare.

Idk what juror you seen because their interview immediately after the trial is on YouTube and they recently did a special and most said they didn’t believe the accusations. So you’re lying. There were a few that changed their tune when it was book writing time but that’s it. Many did not believe the accusations, especially the accusers at hand.
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Reply #46 posted 01/13/19 10:44pm

purple05

oceanblue said:

Truth is, we will never know the real truth about the sexual allegations about Michael Jackson, because the only one that knows the real truth, is God, Michael Jackson, and those involved in the accusations, or who knew Michael Jackson personally and intimately, and were really involved in his life. Michael Jackson was a peculiar man, who sometimes did peculiar things, and because of that, many didn't know whether the allegations were true or not, and they still don't know. I think that because of who Michael was ( a naive, somewhat gullible man-boy that didn't seem to want to grow up) and some of the strange things he did, that people will always have a question mark in their minds about him, and what he did or didn't do.


As a fan I can accept this except the man-boy nonsense. MJ was a grown man, just eccentric and poor with setting boundaries. It doesn’t make him guilty though. This documentary shouldn’t be allowed to exploit the #metoo movement since he’s not here share his side of the story.
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Reply #47 posted 01/14/19 12:41am

Hudson

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purple05 said:

Hudson said:

I remember a juror interview that claimed the majority did believe the accusations, but had to acquit because there was no proof. I personally believe in his innocence, so don't bark at me. But it's lying to say that they all saw through the lies. This documentary is going to be supported by metoo/timesup, and the fans need to prepare.

Idk what juror you seen because their interview immediately after the trial is on YouTube and they recently did a special and most said they didn’t believe the accusations. So you’re lying. There were a few that changed their tune when it was book writing time but that’s it. Many did not believe the accusations, especially the accusers at hand.


I'm not lying. One of them called into the local radio the day after when I happened to be listening (sounded like an old white lady) and said exactly that.
I don't want to get eaten alive
'cause you're so dangerous
No more hearts I can trust, you see
I don't want to get eaten alive
To be eaten alive
Eaten alive
I don't ever want to be
Eaten alive
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Reply #48 posted 01/14/19 12:49am

Hudson

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His attorney agrees that MJ was childlike. It explains a lot how the families thought he'd be an easy target. Skip to 5:30.


[Edited 1/14/19 0:51am]
I don't want to get eaten alive
'cause you're so dangerous
No more hearts I can trust, you see
I don't want to get eaten alive
To be eaten alive
Eaten alive
I don't ever want to be
Eaten alive
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Reply #49 posted 01/14/19 1:58am

bboy87

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Hudson said:

purple05 said:
Idk what juror you seen because their interview immediately after the trial is on YouTube and they recently did a special and most said they didn’t believe the accusations. So you’re lying. There were a few that changed their tune when it was book writing time but that’s it. Many did not believe the accusations, especially the accusers at hand.
I'm not lying. One of them called into the local radio the day after when I happened to be listening (sounded like an old white lady) and said exactly that.

Probably the one they found out had signed a book deal

http://www.contactmusic.com/michael-jackson/news/jackson-juror-agrees-to-book-deal

"We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world."
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Reply #50 posted 01/14/19 6:53am

Dalia11

He acted childlike because he did not have a childhood!
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Reply #51 posted 01/14/19 8:10am

TrivialPursuit

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Dalia11 said:

He acted childlike because he did not have a childhood!


I'm calling bullshit. There are plenty of people who have an interrupted childhood and do anywhere near the things MJ did. That was a convenient excuse, but I don't believe it. Now, MJ can do whatever he wanted with his life, his money, etc. I believe he cared about children and wanted to help them. He had the means to create a playground and a safe place for them. That's amazing.

But he was "childlike" because he didn't have a childhood? Bullshit.

This experience will cover courtship, sex, commitment, fetishes, loneliness, vindication, love, and hate.
http://bit.ly/1D3FG2U
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Reply #52 posted 01/14/19 8:13am

EmmaMcG

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TrivialPursuit said:



Dalia11 said:


He acted childlike because he did not have a childhood!


I'm calling bullshit. There are plenty of people who have an interrupted childhood and do anywhere near the things MJ did. That was a convenient excuse, but I don't believe it. Now, MJ can do whatever he wanted with his life, his money, etc. I believe he cared about children and wanted to help them. He had the means to create a playground and a safe place for them. That's amazing.

But he was "childlike" because he didn't have a childhood? Bullshit.



I always just assumed that it was either just for publicity or, more likely, he was slightly disturbed. I never put it down to him not having a proper childhood or anything like that.
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Reply #53 posted 01/14/19 8:27am

oceanblue

TrivialPursuit said:

Dalia11 said:

He acted childlike because he did not have a childhood!


I'm calling bullshit. There are plenty of people who have an interrupted childhood and do anywhere near the things MJ did. That was a convenient excuse, but I don't believe it. Now, MJ can do whatever he wanted with his life, his money, etc. I believe he cared about children and wanted to help them. He had the means to create a playground and a safe place for them. That's amazing.

But he was "childlike" because he didn't have a childhood? Bullshit.

I totally agree. Most of us have had things that have affected us negatively in our childhood, even traumatizing things, yet have still managed to function as adults, when we turned into one. Michael Jackson not being able to function or act like the adult he was, was proof positive that something was mentally wrong somewhere, something that he needed serious psychological help with! Michael Jackson was a full grown man, not some child or teenager! There should have been someone around him to help him see that, but unfortunately we all know that they didn't, and simply ignored it, coddling him, and going along with the things he did, just because of who he was, and because of money! And that is what is so sad and tragic about the whole situation, because no one cared enough about Michael Jackson, the man, the human being, the one that needed real mental help!

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Reply #54 posted 01/14/19 8:33am

TrivialPursuit

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oceanblue said:

I totally agree. Most of us have had things that have affected us negatively in our childhood, even traumatizing things, yet have still managed to function as adults, when we turned into one. Michael Jackson not being able to function or act like the adult he was, was proof positive that something was mentally wrong somewhere, something that he needed serious psychological help with! Michael Jackson was a full grown man, not some child or teenager! There should have been someone around him to help him see that, but unfortunately we all know that they didn't, and simply ignored it, coddling him, and going along with the things he did, just because of who he was, and because of money! And that is what is so sad and tragic about the whole situation, because no one cared enough about Michael Jackson, the man, the human being, the one that needed real mental help!


Yeah, my folks were divorced when I was 13. The fighting and violence before that certainly interrupted my childhood. My brother was 6 or 7 when it all happened. I didn't camp out at Six Flags when I grew up.

MJ wasn't 'childlike' also because a child doesn't make multimillion-dollar deals, own his masters and tour the world, etc.

I think some counseling would have been great throughout his 20s or 30s, just to keep him grounded and work out his Joe issues.

This experience will cover courtship, sex, commitment, fetishes, loneliness, vindication, love, and hate.
http://bit.ly/1D3FG2U
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Reply #55 posted 01/14/19 8:47am

oceanblue

^^Very true TrivialPursuit. Michael Jackson was a very smart and shrewd business man, and wasn't "childlike" at all when it came down to serious matters like handling his business, no, he was the adult he was on those occasions.

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Reply #56 posted 01/14/19 8:48am

Matthaus

TrivialPursuit said:

Dalia11 said:

He acted childlike because he did not have a childhood!


I'm calling bullshit. There are plenty of people who have an interrupted childhood and do anywhere near the things MJ did. That was a convenient excuse, but I don't believe it. Now, MJ can do whatever he wanted with his life, his money, etc. I believe he cared about children and wanted to help them. He had the means to create a playground and a safe place for them. That's amazing.

But he was "childlike" because he didn't have a childhood? Bullshit.

But people are not all the same. One person might go through a breaktup and develop depression and suicidal tendencies, another might be just fine. Personal experience on the matter can't be used to determine wheter it's "correct" or not to someone to have developed some sort of psychological anomaly to deal with angst from not having had a "normal childhood".

If you watch MJ's home videos on youtube, he didn't really acted "childish" during his daily routine, he literally talked to kids the way they talked to him. He wasn't childish when he had Elizabeth Taylor for christmas, for instance. I doubt he acted "childish" when spending time with Lisa Marie, who was his wife.

[Edited 1/16/19 8:44am]

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Reply #57 posted 01/14/19 10:12am

purple05

Hudson said:

purple05 said:


Idk what juror you seen because their interview immediately after the trial is on YouTube and they recently did a special and most said they didn’t believe the accusations. So you’re lying. There were a few that changed their tune when it was book writing time but that’s it. Many did not believe the accusations, especially the accusers at hand.


I'm not lying. One of them called into the local radio the day after when I happened to be listening (sounded like an old white lady) and said exactly that.

I’m not calling you a liar but in their TV interview on YouTube that’s not what was said. People changed their tune when it was time to write a book.
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Reply #58 posted 01/14/19 11:12am

bboy87

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oceanblue said:

^^Very true TrivialPursuit. Michael Jackson was a very smart and shrewd business man, and wasn't "childlike" at all when it came down to serious matters like handling his business, no, he was the adult he was on those occasions.

That's the same many people around him said.

While he was a "big kid" (which I moreso was him being a geek), he could be very shrewd and ruthless when it came to business

"We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world."
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Reply #59 posted 01/14/19 2:06pm

purple05

bboy87 said:



oceanblue said:


^^Very true TrivialPursuit. Michael Jackson was a very smart and shrewd business man, and wasn't "childlike" at all when it came down to serious matters like handling his business, no, he was the adult he was on those occasions.



That's the same many people around him said.



While he was a "big kid" (which I moreso was him being a geek), he could be very shrewd and ruthless when it came to business


I think the ‘man child’ label is overplayed. MJ like you stated was geeky(in some ways) and liked to do silly stuff that people felt was juvenile. They way people describe him is like he was mentally retarded.
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