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Thread started 09/01/18 12:26pm

thebanishedone

Early Clapton interview in which he diss Hendrix

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Reply #1 posted 09/01/18 1:18pm

deebee

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Is it a diss? He says that Jimi's "got an incredible musical talent. He is really one of the finest musicians around on the Western scene."

The racial language is objectionable, of course. It'd be useful to know how "spade" was received at the time, as it doesn't seem to be intended as a slur here. A CNN article on Jimi's early days notes how Rolling Stone called him a "Psychedelic Superspade", and another magazine called him the "Wild Man of Borneo", both helping foster the "stereotype of the hypersexual black man that Hendrix played up for fame." Clapton seems to be criticising taking him on those terms, here, though, and stressing the talent behind the onstage antics and reductive write-ups.

Eric well and truly blotted his copybook some years later. Here, he seems rather complimentary, though.

"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #2 posted 09/01/18 3:56pm

jjhunsecker

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deebee said:

Is it a diss? He says that Jimi's "got an incredible musical talent. He is really one of the finest musicians around on the Western scene."

The racial language is objectionable, of course. It'd be useful to know how "spade" was received at the time, as it doesn't seem to be intended as a slur here. A CNN article on Jimi's early days notes how Rolling Stone called him a "Psychedelic Superspade", and another magazine called him the "Wild Man of Borneo", both helping foster the "stereotype of the hypersexual black man that Hendrix played up for fame." Clapton seems to be criticising taking him on those terms, here, though, and stressing the talent behind the onstage antics and reductive write-ups.

Eric well and truly blotted his copybook some years later. Here, he seems rather complimentary, though.



"Spade" was common hippie parlance in the 1960s. You see it used by people like Keith Richards and Michael Bloomfield, who worshipped Black musicians. It wasn't INTENDED as a slur, just a "cool " term. Though it seems to have fallen out of favor pretty quickly- probably those called that found it fundamentally offensive
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Reply #3 posted 09/01/18 8:05pm

S2DG

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Wow! Electric Flag? Pink Floyd likes to experimnet with electronics? The beginning of the album as the focus?

That interview was a time capsule. Thanks for the link!

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Reply #4 posted 09/02/18 10:28am

deebee

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jjhunsecker said:

deebee said:

Is it a diss? He says that Jimi's "got an incredible musical talent. He is really one of the finest musicians around on the Western scene."

The racial language is objectionable, of course. It'd be useful to know how "spade" was received at the time, as it doesn't seem to be intended as a slur here. A CNN article on Jimi's early days notes how Rolling Stone called him a "Psychedelic Superspade", and another magazine called him the "Wild Man of Borneo", both helping foster the "stereotype of the hypersexual black man that Hendrix played up for fame." Clapton seems to be criticising taking him on those terms, here, though, and stressing the talent behind the onstage antics and reductive write-ups.

Eric well and truly blotted his copybook some years later. Here, he seems rather complimentary, though.

"Spade" was common hippie parlance in the 1960s. You see it used by people like Keith Richards and Michael Bloomfield, who worshipped Black musicians. It wasn't INTENDED as a slur, just a "cool " term. Though it seems to have fallen out of favor pretty quickly- probably those called that found it fundamentally offensive

Cheers - I didn't know about its use in hippie slang, but that sounds about right for its use in this interview. It's mentioned here too. Strange. I think its usage must have been more vigorously contested by the 1980s, as I only recall it ever being thought of as a derogatory (or at least ignorant) term, as far back as my memory stretches. Plenty to contest, too. When you see popular media like TV shows from the 70s and 80s (The Black and White Minstrel Show, etc), there's an awful lot of stuff that would never get aired today.

"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #5 posted 09/02/18 11:34am

NorthC

Curtis Mayfield made a song called Mighty Mighty Spade & Whitey.
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Reply #6 posted 09/02/18 3:02pm

jjhunsecker

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deebee said:



jjhunsecker said:


deebee said:

Is it a diss? He says that Jimi's "got an incredible musical talent. He is really one of the finest musicians around on the Western scene."

The racial language is objectionable, of course. It'd be useful to know how "spade" was received at the time, as it doesn't seem to be intended as a slur here. A CNN article on Jimi's early days notes how Rolling Stone called him a "Psychedelic Superspade", and another magazine called him the "Wild Man of Borneo", both helping foster the "stereotype of the hypersexual black man that Hendrix played up for fame." Clapton seems to be criticising taking him on those terms, here, though, and stressing the talent behind the onstage antics and reductive write-ups.

Eric well and truly blotted his copybook some years later. Here, he seems rather complimentary, though.



"Spade" was common hippie parlance in the 1960s. You see it used by people like Keith Richards and Michael Bloomfield, who worshipped Black musicians. It wasn't INTENDED as a slur, just a "cool " term. Though it seems to have fallen out of favor pretty quickly- probably those called that found it fundamentally offensive

Cheers - I didn't know about its use in hippie slang, but that sounds about right for its use in this interview. It's mentioned here too. Strange. I think its usage must have been more vigorously contested by the 1980s, as I only recall it ever being thought of as a derogatory (or at least ignorant) term, as far back as my memory stretches. Plenty to contest, too. When you see popular media like TV shows from the 70s and 80s (The Black and White Minstrel Show, etc), there's an awful lot of stuff that would never get aired today.



As a child of the 70s who grew up loving shows like "All in the Family " and "Sanford and Son" and "The Jeffersons" and "Chico and the Man", and comedians like Don Rickles and Richard Pryor and Rodney Dangerfield and Godfrey Cambridge, I love a lot of politically incorrect humor that would not pass muster today.
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Reply #7 posted 09/03/18 12:30am

NorthC

Same here. When did some folks become so oversensitive?
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Reply #8 posted 09/03/18 7:26am

ThePanther

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NorthC said:

Same here. When did some folks become so oversensitive?


Probably when they realized that the people at the center (the white, Anglo-majority in the case of the US) should not be the ones who get to decide how the non-majority are defined.

Political Correctness is a wonderful thing that has made our society much better.

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Reply #9 posted 09/03/18 7:50am

NorthC

I don't want to derail this thread, so I'll leave it at this: comedians have every right to make jokes that might sound offensive or make folks feel uncomfortable. Otherwise a movie like Life of Brian could never have been made.
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Reply #10 posted 09/03/18 8:02am

jjhunsecker

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ThePanther said:



NorthC said:


Same here. When did some folks become so oversensitive?


Probably when they realized that the people at the center (the white, Anglo-majority in the case of the US) should not be the ones who get to decide how the non-majority are defined.

Political Correctness is a wonderful thing that has made our society much better.



I believe in civility in everyday life. I also believe that art, especially comedy, should be able to push the envelope. It's all a matter of context and intent.
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Reply #11 posted 09/04/18 12:25pm

Cinny

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Endearing or not, I never realized Spade was a racial term.

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Reply #12 posted 09/04/18 12:26pm

Cinny

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ThePanther said:

NorthC said:

Same here. When did some folks become so oversensitive?


Probably when they realized that the people at the center (the white, Anglo-majority in the case of the US) should not be the ones who get to decide how the non-majority are defined.

Political Correctness is a wonderful thing that has made our society much better.


So much so that this old slang I never really heard in my lifetime.

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Reply #13 posted 09/04/18 8:09pm

jjhunsecker

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Cinny said:



ThePanther said:




NorthC said:


Same here. When did some folks become so oversensitive?


Probably when they realized that the people at the center (the white, Anglo-majority in the case of the US) should not be the ones who get to decide how the non-majority are defined.

Political Correctness is a wonderful thing that has made our society much better.




So much so that this old slang I never really heard in my lifetime.



It's a pretty out of date term. Maybe because people don't play cards as much as they did decades back?
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Reply #14 posted 09/05/18 9:08am

Graycap23

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Spade..........king of the deck.

FOOLS multiply when WISE Men & Women are silent.
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Reply #15 posted 09/05/18 8:07pm

jjhunsecker

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Graycap23 said:

Spade..........king of the deck.

I was guessing the term came from "Black as the Ace of Spades"

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