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Thread started 01/17/17 8:31pm

HAPPYPERSON

Does Usher arguably have the most impressive legacy out of all his peers?

usher-2012-e1333130976697.jpg
During his prime Usher dominated r&b music.

My thoughts

He should have never waited four years to release after Confessions because during that time gap Chris Brown came on the screen and was becoming the new "it" boy of r&b and Neyo was doing his thing also.

He should have released the next album in 2006 and made it a visual album, then support the album by going on a world stadium tour.

Instead of hopping on the EDM and trap r&b trend he should have gone for a more soulful r&b sound with real instruments, or worked with hungry producers that had the potential to make progressive and innovative r&b music.



Despite the mishaps in Usher's career, He arguably has the most impressive legacy out of all his peers.

  • Usher has received numerous awards throughout his career from having one Diamond certified album in Confessions, two multi-platinum albums in My Way and 8701, two Platinum albums in Here I Stand and Raymond v. Raymond, and one Gold album in Looking 4 Myself, collectively selling over 23 million albums in the US and 43 million albums worldwide.
  • This includes eight Grammy Awards, eighteen Billboard Music Awards, nine Soul Train Music Awards and eight American Music Awards. In 2004, Usher set the record for most Billboard Music award wins in a single night by a male artist, taking eleven awards.
  • At The 26th annual ASCAP Rhythm & Soul Music Awards in 2013, Usher was honored with the Golden Note Award which recognises career milestones in American music
  • On the Billboard Hot 100 chart, "Nice & Slow", "U Remind Me", "U Got It Bad", "Yeah!", "Burn", "Confessions Part II", "My Boo", "Love in This Club" and "OMG" have all reached number-one accumulating 47 weeks at the top, more than any other male artist
  • Usher spent 28 weeks at number-one in 2004 alone, marking an all-time record for most cumulative weeks spent atop in a calendar year on the Hot 100. He broke the record set by Glenn Miller and His Orchestra in 1940; whose records spent 26 cumulative weeks atop on charts which preceded the Hot 100 era
  • OMG" made him the first 2010s artist to collect number-one singles in three consecutive decades ('90s,'00,'10s). He became the fourth artist of all-time to achieve that feat behind Stevie Wonder ('60s,'70s,'80s), Michael Jackson ('70s,'80s,'90s), Janet Jackson and Madonna ('80,'90s,'00s) and became the third artist in history to have at least one number-one single from five consecutive studio albums.
  • On the Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs chart, Usher has 13 number-one singles tied with Michael Jackson and Marvin Gaye.
  • Usher also has 13 number-one singles on the Rhythmic chart, and 15 number-one singles on the Airplay chart, with "You Make Me Wanna" (12 weeks) and "Climax" (11 weeks) becoming two of the longest stays atop on the latter
  • Billboard also placed him at number 6 on their list of "Top 50 R&B/Hip-Hop Artists of the Past 25 Years".
  • Usher has topped several Billboard Year-End charts, including three in 2004. He topped the Hot 100 Songs chart with "Yeah!", while "Burn" held second place, making him the first act since The Beatles in 1964 to have two singles occupy the top two positions
  • Billboard named Usher the Hot 100 Artist of the 2000s decade.
  • He further topped both the 200 Albums and R&B/Hip-hop Albums charts with his Confessions album.
  • On the 2000s Billboard Decade-End chart, "Yeah!" finished second, behind Mariah Carey's "We Belong Together". "Love in This Club" and "OMG" are also amongst the best-selling digital singles worldwide
  • Usher had the most no. 1 singles on the Billboard Hot 100 charts with 7 and held the no. 1 position for a total 41 weeks
  • Confessions was ranked as the top solo album of the decade, selling 20 million copies worldwide.
  • Considered by Bonsu Thompson of Vibe to be "the Thriller of our generation",Damien Scott of Complex said the album "became pop culture catnip" because of its theme.
  • Pop music critic, Sasha Frere-Jones of The New Yorker remarks that "For a while, Confessions was pop music" and says it "may turn out to have been the last true blockbuster in pop".
  • Usher has been recognised by writers of VH1 and The Guardian as the best dancer in pop since Michael Jackson.[
  • Jody Rosen said in 2012 "He's the biggest male pop singer in the world; sometimes, it seems like he's the only one, in a marketplace still dominated by divas",
  • Usher has attained 9 Billboard Hot 100 number-one singles, tied with the Bee Gees, Elton John, and Paul McCartney
  • The Godfather of Soul, James Brown, performed a duet with Usher in 2005 at the 47th Grammy Awards in which he honorably dubbed him the "Godson of soul music". Brown reiterated "The new godson; Usher, the new godson" following the performance
  • Usher was inducted into the 29th Annual Georgia Music Hall of Fame in 2007, and the Hollywood Walk of Fame in 2016 with a star located at 6201 Hollywood Boulevard.
  • Billboard ranked "Yeah!" at number 14 in their "Greatest of All Time Hot 100 Songs",
  • while VH1 ranked it at number 15 in their "Greatest Songs of the 2000s"
  • Confessions is placed at number 16 on Billboard's "Greatest of All Time 200 Albums"
  • ith Vibe magazine placing it at number 10 of its "Greatest 50 Albums since '93"
  • Los Angeles Times critic Randall Roberts marks dance singles "Yeah!", "Caught Up" and "OMG" to have influenced contemporary dance-pop, stating the former two also "helped define the [20]00s".
  • Time magazine's pop stardom ranking metric, ranked Usher 3rd in history, based on all-time chart performance and contemporary significance
  • Usher is placed at number 14 on Billboard's "Greatest of All Time Hot 100 Artists" list, before also being included in their "35 Greatest R&B Artists of All Time" list at 31
  • Described by Fuse as "R&B icon",Yahoo Music classed him as the best R&B act behind Michael Jackson in the 2000s purely based on album sales.
  • The BET Honors honored him for his contributions to music with a Musical Arts award, presented by Bobby Brown who said "You remain a game changer, for your discipline, for your perfectionism. You're just a god man".
  • The BET Honors recognised his influence on many contemporary artists such as Chris Brown,Trey Songz,Jason Derulo,Miguel,Drake,Justin Bieber,Omarion,RayJ,August Alsina and Eric Bellinger.
  • Ne-Yo further cited Usher as an influence upon the honor saying "I feel that without Usher, there would be no me, there would be no Chris Brown, there would be no Trey Songz. He paved the way for us".
  • Other R&B, hip hop and pop artists who have cited Usher as an influence are Bruno Mars,Zayn Malik,Jeremih,Sam Hunt,Leon Bridges,Sammie, B.Smyth, and Jacob Latimore. Actor Tahj Mowry cites 8701 as an influence in his role of pursuing music and a singing career.

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Reply #1 posted 01/17/17 8:38pm

alphastreet

There will never be another Usher, that's what he said.
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Reply #2 posted 01/18/17 3:44am

Chancellor

avatar

Usher Raymond is definitely in my Top 20 for all time favorite Artists/Singers...His Tours are not attracting the usual mega-crowds anymore, so the Bruh should look at smaller venues...He can Tour with other Big Artists to fill stadiums but it's obvious he likes to Headline...

usher is still young and there's so much left for him to do....

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Reply #3 posted 01/18/17 5:59am

ColAngus

avatar

i know just from seeing that list .... that he has an impressive resume but ...

i consider myself a pretty decent student of music ... still am amazed at some artists that I am not familiar with but also .... esp 80s music ... i feel i know alot of them but ...

still only know one usher song .... and .... i dont even know the name of it ! neutral

Colonel Angus may be smelly. colonel angus may be a little rough . but deep down ... Colonel angus is very sweet.
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Reply #4 posted 01/18/17 9:07am

MotownSubdivis
ion

avatar

Usher is the man! Admittedly, I haven't lisyened to any of his albums and have only heard his singles but the dude has a stacked (to put it mildly) resume and it's amazing how such credentials have gone overlooked and unrecognized.

I guarantee if these accolades belonged to someone else *cough*Beyonce*coughcoughcough* then we'd never hear the end of it.
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Reply #5 posted 01/18/17 10:18am

Dasein

The answer to your question depends on how you define "impressive legacy" as I think Van
Hunt's career, at this point, and while not as commercially successful as Usher's, is much more
interesting to me, and therefore, more impressive.


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Reply #6 posted 01/18/17 10:19am

2freaky4church
1

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Wrecked r&b.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #7 posted 01/19/17 3:07pm

spacedolphin

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  • Ne-Yo further cited Usher as an influence upon the honor saying "I feel that without Usher, there would be no me, there would be no Chris Brown, there would be no Trey Songz."

I feel that way too. Goddamn you for existing, Usher.

music Don't wanna be an American idiot music
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Reply #8 posted 01/19/17 3:21pm

Marrk

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I'd rate him the best of a mediocre bunch. He's never blown me away like his influences certainly did.

Yeah, we'll, we'll try to imagine what silence looks like.
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Reply #9 posted 01/19/17 3:23pm

Marrk

avatar

spacedolphin said:

  • Ne-Yo further cited Usher as an influence upon the honor saying "I feel that without Usher, there would be no me, there would be no Chris Brown, there would be no Trey Songz."

I feel that way too. Goddamn you for existing, Usher.

lol

Yeah, we'll, we'll try to imagine what silence looks like.
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Reply #10 posted 01/19/17 3:26pm

Menes

If legacy in music is defined by numbers, creativity and the idea that another generation will gleam from what you did, then he's there. However, the audiene that grew up with Usher, grew up. We dont get the strip club scene/songs, we can't dance like that anymore, and we sure dont get any form of today's rap collaborations with R&B. If it isn't straight R&B crooning, we wont get it. OTH, in order to stay relevant he had to change or die a slow death. This too will happen to Justin,Trey, Chris, at some point.

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Reply #11 posted 01/19/17 3:48pm

Marrk

avatar

Menes said:

If legacy in music is defined by numbers, creativity and the idea that another generation will gleam from what you did, then he's there. However, the audiene that grew up with Usher, grew up. We dont get the strip club scene/songs, we can't dance like that anymore, and we sure dont get any form of today's rap collaborations with R&B. If it isn't straight R&B crooning, we wont get it. OTH, in order to stay relevant he had to change or die a slow death. This too will happen to Justin,Trey, Chris, at some point.

It's hard to define legacy though. My Grandaughter who is six, previously a One Direction fan is now a Michael Jackson fan via Youtube, nothing more. She's absolutely gone crazy about him in the last year. Not my prompting as I've never played her any of his stuff ever. I suppose that is legacy. I found that amazing when my wife told me. I suppose she'll move on again as kids do, but hopefully via Michael she'll discover other artists too. Strange old world. lol

Yeah, we'll, we'll try to imagine what silence looks like.
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Reply #12 posted 01/19/17 5:35pm

Shawy89

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Usher was BIG during the 2000s

Like, massive.

So that alone is making him shine brighter than Chris or JT.

But I'm not a big fan of his voice or music.

Still, "Climax" is one of the most defining 'future' R&B hits of the decade.
You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger. - Buddha
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Reply #13 posted 01/19/17 5:48pm

Graycap23

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Decent artist with one big album.

I dig some of his material but his chops are average at best.

Impressive legacy? Not in my book but a very decent artist.

I have all of his cd's and listen to a geat deal of it.

I'd certainly rate him ahead of the other MJ wanna be's like Chris Brown & Neyo.

FOOLS multiply when WISE Men & Women are silent.
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Reply #14 posted 01/19/17 6:08pm

Marrk

avatar

I might do a legacy thread. Tracing back.. It's interesting. I don't know who James Brown drew inspiration from, dude was the original it seems.

Yeah, we'll, we'll try to imagine what silence looks like.
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Reply #15 posted 01/19/17 6:26pm

Goddess4Real

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Chancellor said:

Usher Raymond is definitely in my Top 20 for all time favorite Artists/Singers...His Tours are not attracting the usual mega-crowds anymore, so the Bruh should look at smaller venues...He can Tour with other Big Artists to fill stadiums but it's obvious he likes to Headline...

usher is still young and there's so much left for him to do....

yeahthat a triple threat......used to watch him on The Bold & The Beautiful in 1998 and his character's name was Raymond.

Keep Calm & Listen To Prince
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Reply #16 posted 01/19/17 6:43pm

mjscarousal

Yes.

My Way, 8701, and Confessions are classics.

Also, Confessions is the BIGGEST selling album by a BLACK artist in the 21st century and he didn't have to be a token Black to achieve it. I think what makes Usher's success the most impressive is the fact that it was rightfully earned. Nothing was given to him and he wasn't an industry favorite. The success he achieved was because people loved his music, period. His disography is very underrated as well his commercial success during his peak. When people look back at his past success and music, Usher should feel good that he will not be called overrated (at least his music anyway). However, what they will ask is what happened? How did a good R&B artist that produce a stringe of consecutive good R&B albums, sell out so badly? Everything after Confessions is horrible and he has tarnished his music catalog because of it. This also is partially a reason why he is overlooked.

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Reply #17 posted 01/19/17 7:32pm

Menes

mjscarousal said:

Yes.

My Way, 8701, and Confessions are classics.

Also, Confessions is the BIGGEST selling album by a BLACK artist in the 21st century and he didn't have to be a token Black to achieve it. I think what makes Usher's success the most impressive is the fact that it was rightfully earned. Nothing was given to him and he wasn't an industry favorite. The success he achieved was because people loved his music, period. His disography is very underrated as well his commercial success during his peak. When people look back at his past success and music, Usher should feel good that he will not be called overrated (at least his music anyway). However, what they will ask is what happened? How did a good R&B artist that produce a stringe of consecutive good R&B albums, sell out so badly? Everything after Confessions is horrible and he has tarnished his music catalog because of it. This also is partially a reason why he is overlooked.

Please explain what you mean by "sell out so badly'.

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Reply #18 posted 01/19/17 9:07pm

Graycap23

avatar

mjscarousal said:

Yes.



My Way, 8701, and Confessions are classics.



Also, Confessions is the BIGGEST selling album by a BLACK artist in the 21st century and he didn't have to be a token Black to achieve it. I think what makes Usher's success the most impressive is the fact that it was rightfully earned. Nothing was given to him and he wasn't an industry favorite. The success he achieved was because people loved his music, period. His disography is very underrated as well his commercial success during his peak. When people look back at his past success and music, Usher should feel good that he will not be called overrated (at least his music anyway). However, what they will ask is what happened? How did a good R&B artist that produce a stringe of consecutive good R&B albums, sell out so badly? Everything after Confessions is horrible and he has tarnished his music catalog because of it. This also is partially a reason why he is overlooked.





all good points
FOOLS multiply when WISE Men & Women are silent.
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Reply #19 posted 01/20/17 6:52am

Dasein

mjscarousal said:

Yes.

My Way, 8701, and Confessions are classics.

Also, Confessions is the BIGGEST selling album by a BLACK artist in the 21st century and he didn't have to be a token Black to achieve it. I think what makes Usher's success the most impressive is the fact that it was rightfully earned. Nothing was given to him and he wasn't an industry favorite. The success he achieved was because people loved his music, period. His disography is very underrated as well his commercial success during his peak. When people look back at his past success and music, Usher should feel good that he will not be called overrated (at least his music anyway). However, what they will ask is what happened? How did a good R&B artist that produce a stringe of consecutive good R&B albums, sell out so badly? Everything after Confessions is horrible and he has tarnished his music catalog because of it. This also is partially a reason why he is overlooked.


I agree with you about My Way, 8701, and Confessions. Those are quality albums in the vein
of contemporary popular R&B.

But you make too many assumptions: how do you know how the entire recording arts/music in-
dustry perceived him as a whole? And one of the ways you make money as a recording is by
going beyond the context of album sales and touring, so where you have Michael Jackson hopping
on board the New Jack Swing movement in the late 80s and early 90s to pitching Pepsi, you also
have examples of other recording artists with a long history of "selling out" if I understand how
you're using that term.

But, until you've defined "selling out so baldy" as Menes asks, my point still stands: we ought to
get rid of this pejorative of "selling out" when it comes to artists trying to make a living.

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Reply #20 posted 01/20/17 12:50pm

Menes

Dasein said:

mjscarousal said:

Yes.

My Way, 8701, and Confessions are classics.

Also, Confessions is the BIGGEST selling album by a BLACK artist in the 21st century and he didn't have to be a token Black to achieve it. I think what makes Usher's success the most impressive is the fact that it was rightfully earned. Nothing was given to him and he wasn't an industry favorite. The success he achieved was because people loved his music, period. His disography is very underrated as well his commercial success during his peak. When people look back at his past success and music, Usher should feel good that he will not be called overrated (at least his music anyway). However, what they will ask is what happened? How did a good R&B artist that produce a stringe of consecutive good R&B albums, sell out so badly? Everything after Confessions is horrible and he has tarnished his music catalog because of it. This also is partially a reason why he is overlooked.


I agree with you about My Way, 8701, and Confessions. Those are quality albums in the vein
of contemporary popular R&B.

But you make too many assumptions: how do you know how the entire recording arts/music in-
dustry perceived him as a whole? And one of the ways you make money as a recording is by
going beyond the context of album sales and touring, so where you have Michael Jackson hopping
on board the New Jack Swing movement in the late 80s and early 90s to pitching Pepsi, you also
have examples of other recording artists with a long history of "selling out" if I understand how
you're using that term.

But, until you've defined "selling out so baldy" as Menes asks, my point still stands: we ought to
get rid of this pejorative of "selling out" when it comes to artists trying to make a living.

And in addition to Dasein's points, Prince was labelled a "sell out" at times for the clothes he wore, the distortion rock sounds he loved, the times he would rap , and lastly, the eloquence with which he spoke, all by those who wanted to "label" him something other than what he was. An Artist. What does that remind you of?

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Reply #21 posted 01/20/17 2:38pm

mjscarousal

Menes said:

mjscarousal said:

Yes.

My Way, 8701, and Confessions are classics.

Also, Confessions is the BIGGEST selling album by a BLACK artist in the 21st century and he didn't have to be a token Black to achieve it. I think what makes Usher's success the most impressive is the fact that it was rightfully earned. Nothing was given to him and he wasn't an industry favorite. The success he achieved was because people loved his music, period. His disography is very underrated as well his commercial success during his peak. When people look back at his past success and music, Usher should feel good that he will not be called overrated (at least his music anyway). However, what they will ask is what happened? How did a good R&B artist that produce a stringe of consecutive good R&B albums, sell out so badly? Everything after Confessions is horrible and he has tarnished his music catalog because of it. This also is partially a reason why he is overlooked.

Please explain what you mean by "sell out so badly'.

My definition of selling out is when you abandon your principles, ideals, and in this case artistic intergrity in order to follow whats (popularly accepted or trendy) and that is exactly what Usher did. He was a respected R&B artist and built a dedicated following over time. His fans watched him grow up, struggle and reach superstardom. He was on track to being an Icon imo but he blew that

AFTER Confessions. I am guessing there was label pressure to top Confessions so he oblidge and abandoned R&B for while. Its sad because Usher now makes POP Trap music and his image is all over the place. Usher had a very geniune authentic style when he first came out that was seperate from the other MJ wannabe's. He was likable, down to earth and unlike most of his contemporaries, he has a diamond album, classic albums, and classic songs AND he has had the biggest peak by a Black pop artist that has came out over the last 20 years, no question.

[Edited 1/20/17 14:43pm]

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Reply #22 posted 01/20/17 3:06pm

mjscarousal

Dasein said:

mjscarousal said:

Yes.

My Way, 8701, and Confessions are classics.

Also, Confessions is the BIGGEST selling album by a BLACK artist in the 21st century and he didn't have to be a token Black to achieve it. I think what makes Usher's success the most impressive is the fact that it was rightfully earned. Nothing was given to him and he wasn't an industry favorite. The success he achieved was because people loved his music, period. His disography is very underrated as well his commercial success during his peak. When people look back at his past success and music, Usher should feel good that he will not be called overrated (at least his music anyway). However, what they will ask is what happened? How did a good R&B artist that produce a stringe of consecutive good R&B albums, sell out so badly? Everything after Confessions is horrible and he has tarnished his music catalog because of it. This also is partially a reason why he is overlooked.


I agree with you about My Way, 8701, and Confessions. Those are quality albums in the vein
of contemporary popular R&B.

But you make too many assumptions: how do you know how the entire recording arts/music in-
dustry perceived him as a whole? And one of the ways you make money as a recording is by
going beyond the context of album sales and touring, so where you have Michael Jackson hopping
on board the New Jack Swing movement in the late 80s and early 90s to pitching Pepsi, you also
have examples of other recording artists with a long history of "selling out" if I understand how
you're using that term.

But, until you've defined "selling out so baldy" as Menes asks, my point still stands: we ought to
get rid of this pejorative of "selling out" when it comes to artists trying to make a living.

I would argue that is not a good example. Evolving and experimenting musically is different from following what is trendy. The whole Dangerous album was not New Jack Swing although yes some songs were inspired by that era (but he evolved with the times overall and grew more artistically) but Michael was so versatile musically I don't think using him is a good example. Usher was R&B all the way, that was his lane. The reason why I said he sold out was because he abandoned his core fanbase and R&B all together in order to follow what was trendy and popular. Comparing New Jack Swing to Trap music is comparing apples to oranges. They are totally different. Trap is trash to put it lightly and its embarassing that this is the type of music Usher chooses to make with the type of resume he has.

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Reply #23 posted 01/20/17 4:00pm

EmmaMcG

avatar

mjscarousal said:



Dasein said:




mjscarousal said:


Yes.



My Way, 8701, and Confessions are classics.



Also, Confessions is the BIGGEST selling album by a BLACK artist in the 21st century and he didn't have to be a token Black to achieve it. I think what makes Usher's success the most impressive is the fact that it was rightfully earned. Nothing was given to him and he wasn't an industry favorite. The success he achieved was because people loved his music, period. His disography is very underrated as well his commercial success during his peak. When people look back at his past success and music, Usher should feel good that he will not be called overrated (at least his music anyway). However, what they will ask is what happened? How did a good R&B artist that produce a stringe of consecutive good R&B albums, sell out so badly? Everything after Confessions is horrible and he has tarnished his music catalog because of it. This also is partially a reason why he is overlooked.








I agree with you about My Way, 8701, and Confessions. Those are quality albums in the vein
of contemporary popular R&B.

But you make too many assumptions: how do you know how the entire recording arts/music in-
dustry perceived him as a whole? And one of the ways you make money as a recording is by
going beyond the context of album sales and touring, so where you have Michael Jackson hopping
on board the New Jack Swing movement in the late 80s and early 90s to pitching Pepsi, you also
have examples of other recording artists with a long history of "selling out" if I understand how
you're using that term.

But, until you've defined "selling out so baldy" as Menes asks, my point still stands: we ought to
get rid of this pejorative of "selling out" when it comes to artists trying to make a living.





I would argue that is not a good example. Evolving and experimenting musically is different from following what is trendy. The whole Dangerous album was not New Jack Swing although yes some songs were inspired by that era (but he evolved with the times overall and grew more artistically) but Michael was so versatile musically I don't think using him is a good example. Usher was R&B all the way, that was his lane. The reason why I said he sold out was because he abandoned his core fanbase and R&B all together in order to follow what was trendy and popular. Comparing New Jack Swing to Trap music is comparing apples to oranges. They are totally different. Trap is trash to put it lightly and its embarassing that this is the type of music Usher chooses to make with the type of resume he has.





Everything mjscarousal has said in this thread echoes my own personal opinions on the matter so I have no need to add to what has already been said, other than to drive home the point of Usher selling out and making trashy music to try stay "down with the kids". The guy has a fantastic voice and has released some of the best pop/RnB songs of the last 20 years and yet you look at him now and it's like a completely different person. It's not even a case of evolving artistically. It's a full on change in direction that wasn't needed and was ill advised and it's very obvious to anyone with working ears that he did it to try to appeal to fans of the autotuned, soulless "music" that seems to sell well these days. And it's frustrating to know that an artist of his ability and influence could help steer the music industry back to producing well written, melodic pop and rnb songs but rather than try that, he's taking the easy option and that's harming his legacy.
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Reply #24 posted 01/20/17 4:05pm

214

Dasein said:

mjscarousal said:

Yes.

My Way, 8701, and Confessions are classics.

Also, Confessions is the BIGGEST selling album by a BLACK artist in the 21st century and he didn't have to be a token Black to achieve it. I think what makes Usher's success the most impressive is the fact that it was rightfully earned. Nothing was given to him and he wasn't an industry favorite. The success he achieved was because people loved his music, period. His disography is very underrated as well his commercial success during his peak. When people look back at his past success and music, Usher should feel good that he will not be called overrated (at least his music anyway). However, what they will ask is what happened? How did a good R&B artist that produce a stringe of consecutive good R&B albums, sell out so badly? Everything after Confessions is horrible and he has tarnished his music catalog because of it. This also is partially a reason why he is overlooked.


I agree with you about My Way, 8701, and Confessions. Those are quality albums in the vein
of contemporary popular R&B.

But you make too many assumptions: how do you know how the entire recording arts/music in-
dustry perceived him as a whole? And one of the ways you make money as a recording is by
going beyond the context of album sales and touring, so where you have Michael Jackson hopping
on board the New Jack Swing movement in the late 80s and early 90s to pitching Pepsi, you also
have examples of other recording artists with a long history of "selling out" if I understand how
you're using that term.

But, until you've defined "selling out so baldy" as Menes asks, my point still stands: we ought to
get rid of this pejorative of "selling out" when it comes to artists trying to make a living.

Because she holds the truth,can't you see that, or at least that's what she thinks.

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Reply #25 posted 01/20/17 4:07pm

214

mjscarousal said:

Menes said:

Please explain what you mean by "sell out so badly'.

My definition of selling out is when you abandon your principles, ideals, and in this case artistic intergrity in order to follow whats (popularly accepted or trendy) and that is exactly what Usher did. He was a respected R&B artist and built a dedicated following over time. His fans watched him grow up, struggle and reach superstardom. He was on track to being an Icon imo but he blew that

AFTER Confessions. I am guessing there was label pressure to top Confessions so he oblidge and abandoned R&B for while. Its sad because Usher now makes POP Trap music and his image is all over the place. Usher had a very geniune authentic style when he first came out that was seperate from the other MJ wannabe's. He was likable, down to earth and unlike most of his contemporaries, he has a diamond album, classic albums, and classic songs AND he has had the biggest peak by a Black pop artist that has came out over the last 20 years, no question.

[Edited 1/20/17 14:43pm]

Almost, if not every single artist does that, including Prince. Some artists more than others.

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Reply #26 posted 01/20/17 4:21pm

mjscarousal

EmmaMcG said:

mjscarousal said:

I would argue that is not a good example. Evolving and experimenting musically is different from following what is trendy. The whole Dangerous album was not New Jack Swing although yes some songs were inspired by that era (but he evolved with the times overall and grew more artistically) but Michael was so versatile musically I don't think using him is a good example. Usher was R&B all the way, that was his lane. The reason why I said he sold out was because he abandoned his core fanbase and R&B all together in order to follow what was trendy and popular. Comparing New Jack Swing to Trap music is comparing apples to oranges. They are totally different. Trap is trash to put it lightly and its embarassing that this is the type of music Usher chooses to make with the type of resume he has.

Everything mjscarousal has said in this thread echoes my own personal opinions on the matter so I have no need to add to what has already been said, other than to drive home the point of Usher selling out and making trashy music to try stay "down with the kids". The guy has a fantastic voice and has released some of the best pop/RnB songs of the last 20 years and yet you look at him now and it's like a completely different person. It's not even a case of evolving artistically. It's a full on change in direction that wasn't needed and was ill advised and it's very obvious to anyone with working ears that he did it to try to appeal to fans of the autotuned, soulless "music" that seems to sell well these days. And it's frustrating to know that an artist of his ability and influence could help steer the music industry back to producing well written, melodic pop and rnb songs but rather than try that, he's taking the easy option and that's harming his legacy.

Excellent post! Usher is very underrated as a singer IMO. I love the way he emotes especially on a sensual song like i.e. Nice and Slow

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Reply #27 posted 01/20/17 5:09pm

heathilly

I don't think usher has/had the same impact as Kanye or Beyoncé. I view usher like Janet Jackson she made good music was huge for a point in time. But the relevance people have for her has seemed to have faded away and there isn't much veneration for her or usher. Don't get me wrong he was big but he seems as relevant as kem marquis huston and donell jones.
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Reply #28 posted 01/20/17 6:06pm

Menes

mjscarousal said:

Menes said:

Please explain what you mean by "sell out so badly'.

My definition of selling out is when you abandon your principles, ideals, and in this case artistic intergrity in order to follow whats (popularly accepted or trendy) and that is exactly what Usher did. He was a respected R&B artist and built a dedicated following over time. His fans watched him grow up, struggle and reach superstardom. He was on track to being an Icon imo but he blew that

AFTER Confessions. I am guessing there was label pressure to top Confessions so he oblidge and abandoned R&B for while. Its sad because Usher now makes POP Trap music and his image is all over the place. Usher had a very geniune authentic style when he first came out that was seperate from the other MJ wannabe's. He was likable, down to earth and unlike most of his contemporaries, he has a diamond album, classic albums, and classic songs AND he has had the biggest peak by a Black pop artist that has came out over the last 20 years, no question.

[Edited 1/20/17 14:43pm]

Though "selling out" is synonymous and an extreme form of "abandon", its probably not the best way to describe someone's actions when in reality, he has creative control as an artist. In addition, that catch phrase has maligned many of African American artists , actors, actresses who have decided to do something against the norm . Who decides what's the norm? To you and I ( and I agree with you in some aspects of your post), these compromising modifications can be alarming, yet, they are historical in nature. It is more likely related to relevance than "selling out".

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Reply #29 posted 01/20/17 6:14pm

mrjun18

http://www.lipstickalley.com/showthread.php/1131734-Does-Usher-arguably-have-the-most-impressive-legacy-out-of-all-his-peers

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Forums > Music: Non-Prince > Does Usher arguably have the most impressive legacy out of all his peers?