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Thread started 06/17/20 7:30am

HamsterHuey

Crystal Ball triple album art design?

What do you think; was the art design/photography of Sign "O" The Times made espacially for that set or is it just updated for what would have been Crystal Ball (the original album, not the compilation set)?

Or is there art design we haven't seen yet?

In other words; what art design do I attach to my Crystal Ball triple album set?
(if I say "one of the Jeff Katz SOTT outtake pics", will there be brick throwing?)

>>
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Reply #1 posted 06/17/20 7:42am

IstenSzek

avatar

HamsterHuey said:

What do you think; was the art design/photography of Sign "O" The Times made espacially for that set or is it just updated for what would have been Crystal Ball (the original album, not the compilation set)?

Or is there art design we haven't seen yet?

In other words; what art design do I attach to my Crystal Ball triple album set?
(if I say "one of the Jeff Katz SOTT outtake pics", will there be brick throwing?)



oh there will be brick throwing, regardless. that's just par for the course in this place lol

but yeah, i'm wondering if the artwork would have been similar. kind of depends on when
the photoshoot for what became the Sign O The Times artwork took place and how long
that was prior to the whitling down of the album from 3 to only 2 discs.

was the shoot that produced the cover for Sign O The Times done before or after CB was
turned down by Warners?

i'm sure it's available somewhere, on google though, so duck......now! here's dem bricks.

*incoming*

and true love lives on lollipops and crisps
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Reply #2 posted 06/18/20 6:34am

222

HamsterHuey said:

What do you think; was the art design/photography of Sign "O" The Times made espacially for that set or is it just updated for what would have been Crystal Ball (the original album, not the compilation set)?

Or is there art design we haven't seen yet?

In other words; what art design do I attach to my Crystal Ball triple album set?
(if I say "one of the Jeff Katz SOTT outtake pics", will there be brick throwing?)

Isn't there a segment in SOTT concert where he plays with a crystal ball? Take a still from that & make it a cover. Overlay some text in the right font for the time period, if you want to put in even more effort.

[Edited 6/18/20 6:35am]

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Reply #3 posted 06/18/20 7:30am

OnlyNDaUsa

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Something I just thought about (I can't be the first person) the SOTT cover... it is just him with all the instruments in the background with noone to play them...showing it was him as a solo act (even if Wendy and Lisa were all over that album).

[Edited 6/18/20 13:24pm]

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Reply #4 posted 06/18/20 8:02am

Poplife88

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I thought I read somewhere (could've been here!) that the SOTTs cover was the same for Crystal Ball. Don't hold me to that though.

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Reply #5 posted 06/18/20 8:13am

OnlyNDaUsa

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As to the design for the album "Crystal Ball" it is odd that of the 3 albums that is the only one we've not seen. Also might the cover art for all 3 be part of SOTT SD?

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Reply #6 posted 06/18/20 8:27am

222

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Something I just thought about (I am can't be the first person) the SOTT cover... it is just him with all the instruments in the background with noone to play them...showing it was him as a solo act (even if Wendy and Lisa were all over that album).

Nice insight, makes sense.

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Reply #7 posted 06/18/20 8:29am

222

Poplife88 said:

I thought I read somewhere (could've been here!) that the SOTTs cover was the same for Crystal Ball. Don't hold me to that though.

This bootleg one looks kind of dope, bad quality though.

Prince-Crystal-Ball-bootleg.jpg

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Reply #8 posted 06/18/20 1:20pm

databank

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As Bart would say: "Can't you bother to look up Princevault you bloody idiot?!!!!!" lol lol lol

.

No, seriously, I didn't know myself so I indeed checked Pvault and it says: "Nothing is known about whether an album cover or other artwork was designed for Crystal Ball" (http://princevault.com/in..._Ball_1986). This seems to indicate the SOTT artwork was made after the project was abandonned.

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Reply #9 posted 06/18/20 1:26pm

databank

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On a sidenote and sorry if I'm derailing the thread, I still would sell my mom to know what the reception would have been in a parallel world where WB would have allowed P to release CB as such. SOTT was/is his most critically acclaimed album, and I really wonder if that praise would have been less or more with CB (I'm inclined to think P would have been praised even more and that CB would literally have blown the critics' minds away, but IFDK).

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Reply #10 posted 06/18/20 3:12pm

EnDoRpHn

databank said:

On a sidenote and sorry if I'm derailing the thread, I still would sell my mom to know what the reception would have been in a parallel world where WB would have allowed P to release CB as such. SOTT was/is his most critically acclaimed album, and I really wonder if that praise would have been less or more with CB (I'm inclined to think P would have been praised even more and that CB would literally have blown the critics' minds away, but IFDK).


Is she hot?

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Reply #11 posted 06/18/20 3:13pm

EnDoRpHn

databank said:

As Bart would say: "Can't you bother to look up Princevault you bloody idiot?!!!!!" lol lol lol

.

No, seriously, I didn't know myself so I indeed checked Pvault and it says: "Nothing is known about whether an album cover or other artwork was designed for Crystal Ball" (http://princevault.com/in..._Ball_1986). This seems to indicate the SOTT artwork was made after the project was abandonned.


I'd have to give some thought to where/how, but I'm pretty sure I saw something back in 1987 indicating that the SOTT cover art was specific to SOTT.

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Reply #12 posted 06/18/20 3:16pm

222

databank said:

On a sidenote and sorry if I'm derailing the thread, I still would sell my mom to know what the reception would have been in a parallel world where WB would have allowed P to release CB as such. SOTT was/is his most critically acclaimed album, and I really wonder if that praise would have been less or more with CB (I'm inclined to think P would have been praised even more and that CB would literally have blown the critics' minds away, but IFDK).

Financially, 3 album set didn't make sense at the time. You were almost guaranteed lower sales if you went to 3 LP, 2 cassette, 3 CD, because it would increase sales price. I have my own homemade copy & it is VERY long, almost tediously long. It has grown on me & the extras are nice, but it might not be remembered as fondly being longer & more drawn out.

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Reply #13 posted 06/18/20 5:00pm

IstenSzek

avatar

databank said:

As Bart would say: "Can't you bother to look up Princevault you bloody idiot?!!!!!" lol lol lol

.

No, seriously, I didn't know myself so I indeed checked Pvault and it says: "Nothing is known about whether an album cover or other artwork was designed for Crystal Ball" (http://princevault.com/in..._Ball_1986). This seems to indicate the SOTT artwork was made after the project was abandonned.


what i find interesting about the crystal ball album entry on princevault is that they
mention, in at least 4 different places on the page, so it's not a typo, that all of the
songs, so the entire "crystal ball" album would have been attributed to Camille.

did i miss something? because i've never heard or read about that before now omfg

is that new info that came out in the last year or so?

and true love lives on lollipops and crisps
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Reply #14 posted 06/18/20 5:09pm

trickyjoe7777

IstenSzek said:



databank said:


As Bart would say: "Can't you bother to look up Princevault you bloody idiot?!!!!!" lol lol lol


.


No, seriously, I didn't know myself so I indeed checked Pvault and it says: "Nothing is known about whether an album cover or other artwork was designed for Crystal Ball" (http://princevault.com/in..._Ball_1986). This seems to indicate the SOTT artwork was made after the project was abandonned.




what i find interesting about the crystal ball album entry on princevault is that they
mention, in at least 4 different places on the page, so it's not a typo, that all of the
songs, so the entire "crystal ball" album would have been attributed to Camille.

did i miss something? because i've never heard or read about that before now omfg

is that new info that came out in the last year or so?



I noticed this the other day and thought it was new info
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Reply #15 posted 06/18/20 5:41pm

lustmealways

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I believe this was discussed when Eric Leeds' in-house Crystal Ball cassette pictures were shared and it was credited to Camille on the j-card?

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Reply #16 posted 06/18/20 7:01pm

Mikado

databank said:

On a sidenote and sorry if I'm derailing the thread, I still would sell my mom to know what the reception would have been in a parallel world where WB would have allowed P to release CB as such. SOTT was/is his most critically acclaimed album, and I really wonder if that praise would have been less or more with CB (I'm inclined to think P would have been praised even more and that CB would literally have blown the critics' minds away, but IFDK).


I can't think of a triple album that was reviewed positively, truth be told.

A certain kind of mellow.
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Reply #17 posted 06/18/20 7:14pm

williamb610

That lineup of songs on Crystal Ball KICKS ASS!

In some places it's almost the same as SOTT but...

Thinking of the songs in my head, there would have been some weird pacing and experiencing of songs but it would have been cool.

Definitely, different!

[Edited 6/18/20 19:34pm]

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Reply #18 posted 06/18/20 8:12pm

mbdtyler

Crystal Ball was too bloated and scattered to work as a unified album, even if the songs were all good-to-great individually. I'll go a step further and say that Prince could have picked a better tracklisting for SOTT. Considering all of the incredible material he had to choose from at the time, the finished product almost seems like an arbitrary grab-bag; that it worked well enough to be critically acclaimed is a testament to the man's talent.

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Reply #19 posted 06/19/20 4:41am

IstenSzek

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lustmealways said:

I believe this was discussed when Eric Leeds' in-house Crystal Ball cassette pictures were shared and it was credited to Camille on the j-card?


ah, that would explain where the info came from nod cool, thanks cool

and true love lives on lollipops and crisps
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Reply #20 posted 06/19/20 8:36am

databank

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lustmealways said:

I believe this was discussed when Eric Leeds' in-house Crystal Ball cassette pictures were shared and it was credited to Camille on the j-card?


Then could it have been an in-house joke? There was a pre-TBA concept for the Camille album that was lost with CB. I totally fail to see what the point of crediting a triple album that would have required a lot of marketing and that Prince most likely expected critics to praise as his ultimate masterpiece, to Camille, when on top of it only a handful of songs used the Camille voice. I just don't see the point.
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Reply #21 posted 06/19/20 8:39am

databank

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I just saw on Pvault that they have seen the Bernie Grundman tape sent to him for mastering. This would suggest that this tape was also credited to Camille, or they'd have noted that it was credited to P. This is strange.
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Reply #22 posted 06/19/20 8:51am

HamsterHuey

Thanks, everybody, for the discussion and insights; I had forgotten about the CB tapes.

And thanks, 222; for the link, of course I know the picture, and it is fun somebody took the time to edit the SOTT heart shaped sticker , but when I saw the title "The" Crystal Ball, my brain immediately went *It's without "The"* (grin)

That is actually the best pic for it; close enough to SOTT but still different enough for me to be CB.

>>
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Reply #23 posted 06/20/20 6:52pm

SquirrelMeat

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I've chatted with Susannah and Eric about these releases, and athough I think their truth is from a 3rd party perspective, it would seem 'Dream Factory' was a 'Flesh' concept and the three disc album was 'Camille's Crystal Ball'.

My guess is Prince was keen on non identity of his music, but SOTT might have been a blip to satisfy the record label. It would also explain his lack of promotion for the album.

Only months later, he reverted to the hidden concept (The Black Album), and it wasn't until the Lovesexy sessions until he accepted who/what he was.

.
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Reply #24 posted 06/20/20 11:12pm

Vannormal

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It could've looked like this :

c0fba4afc796b1ebe186715001bf8008.jpg

Or this :

db97c89b9391a8059192a0702b0aeeec.jpg

I can easily imagine Prince and his band being dressed like this, but with the Princy edge brought in the fashion, the rock 'n roll part he mastered so well in his outfits :

2019_05_29_73524_1559104862._large.jpg

[Edited 6/20/20 23:17pm]

"...no matter what, all will be fine, always."
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Reply #25 posted 06/21/20 4:38am

herb4

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

Something I just thought about (I can't be the first person) the SOTT cover... it is just him with all the instruments in the background with noone to play them...showing it was him as a solo act (even if Wendy and Lisa were all over that album).

[Edited 6/18/20 13:24pm]


I love that cover (and the double exposure on If I Was Your Girlfriend in particular).

The SoTT cover, showing him out focus and exiting the frame at the bottom right like that, seem to say that just got done killing all those instruments single handedly and now he is DONE. Leaving. He's OUT.

It's one of his better album covers I think.

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Reply #26 posted 06/22/20 2:38am

mediumdry

to me, it always seemed that the artwork for SOTT had so many see through "crystal" spheres in them, that it was artwork that was, at a minimum, already worked on while the concept was still Crystal Ball.

This image, not made by me, is the one I use for my version of the album.


4KX3dd0.png

[Edited 6/22/20 2:39am]

Paisley Park is in your heart - Love Is Here!
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Reply #27 posted 06/22/20 4:16am

BartVanHemelen

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Mikado said:

databank said:

On a sidenote and sorry if I'm derailing the thread, I still would sell my mom to know what the reception would have been in a parallel world where WB would have allowed P to release CB as such. SOTT was/is his most critically acclaimed album, and I really wonder if that praise would have been less or more with CB (I'm inclined to think P would have been praised even more and that CB would literally have blown the critics' minds away, but IFDK).


I can't think of a triple album that was reviewed positively, truth be told.

.

https://en.wikipedia.org/..._reception

.

https://en.wikipedia.org/...978_album)

.

https://en.wikipedia.org/..._reception

.

https://en.wikipedia.org/..._reception

.

https://en.wikipedia.org/..._reception

.

https://en.wikipedia.org/...#Reception

.

https://en.wikipedia.org/..._reception

.

https://en.wikipedia.org/..._reception

.

[Edited 6/22/20 4:22am]

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
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Reply #28 posted 06/22/20 4:29am

mediumdry

apologies for oversaturating the thread with similar images, but Crystal Ball did not have "the" in it. (as was pointed out to me) and it was attributed to Camille as was pointed out as well. So I tried to see what would fit best. You be the judge.

not THE crystal ball

Camille Crystal Ball

Paisley Park is in your heart - Love Is Here!
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Reply #29 posted 06/22/20 11:40am

databank

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SquirrelMeat said:

I've chatted with Susannah and Eric about these releases, and athough I think their truth is from a 3rd party perspective, it would seem 'Dream Factory' was a 'Flesh' concept and the three disc album was 'Camille's Crystal Ball'.

My guess is Prince was keen on non identity of his music, but SOTT might have been a blip to satisfy the record label. It would also explain his lack of promotion for the album.

Only months later, he reverted to the hidden concept (The Black Album), and it wasn't until the Lovesexy sessions until he accepted who/what he was.

Oh yeah I had completely forgotten this Flesh DF situation.

.

What I don't really understand is what P was trying to achieve by releasing DF as The Flesh or CB as Camille. We know he was indeed keen on releasing material under pseudonyms or by giving away credits (the songs or whole album he'd write/produce for others) to see how the material would perform by itself. I kind of understand the underlying concept of TBA (release an anonymous, dark, underground record without any promotion and see how people react when they find it and realize it's P) and I'd assume the Camille album concept was relatively similar (except that it would have been credited to Camille instead of anynymous), but I fail to see how this would have been possible with a double album like DF, let alone a triple like CB.

.

Was the plan to release them "anonymously" and without much promo like Camille and TBA? Would WB have played ball with this concept beyond a single LP? Or would these records clearly have been promoted and identified as Prince records from the beginning, as in The Flesh is the new name of Prince And The Revolution (with the new, expanded Counter-Revolution line-up as a justification for the name change), or as in Camille is Prince's new name like prince would later be, only he'd be back to Prince the next year? While I think the single Camille LP had a strong concept with all songs featuring the Camille voice and a particularly dark orientation for the material, while I think TBA was also a strong concept with its overtly provocative lyrical content and infectious dance grooves, I don't see anything in DF or CB that justifies the name change concept, and I don't see either how WB could have released a double or triple album with Prince's "normal" vocals all over it without promoting it as the new Prince album. Indeed, a new Prince album in 1987 was much more of an event as, say, a new Prince album in 2001, and even more if it was a double or triple LP. It would have been hard to conceal its author when P was one of the biggest stars in the world as well as one of the most critically acclaimed, and it would have been even harder given how strong the material on either project.

.

DF may or may not have been welcomed as enthusastically as SOTT, but it's likely it would have been well received no matter what it would have been in the end. And despite the lack of a consensus as to whether CB would have been acclaimed as one of the greatest albums of all time as I think it would have, or labeled as Prince indulging himself with too long a record, I think the strength of the material would have attracted attention. The title track alone, while released in the world's indifference in 1998, would certainly have brought P a lot of praise in 1987 for its conceptual originality. So what was supposed to happen? Critics were supposed to say, "Oh, here's the new Prince album, and it's a 3 LP extravanganza, except you ain't supposed to say it's Prince, because now Prince's name is Camille"? Was WB supposed to send press releases claiming this was the first album by some new dude named Camille, at the risk of being ridiculed? What sense would this have made? I just don't see how this Flesh/Camille thing could possibly have served the records in any way, the material was too evidently Prince and the concept of the alter-ego was not strongly enough suggested by the music for it to make any bloody sense.

.

Hopefully, Duane will address this in the new book, and P's plans will be exposed in more details. I really can't wait for this book to be released nod

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