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Thread started 06/12/20 8:26am

emesem

Prince "mistakes" and events that changed his career

That thread about the SOTT tour not coming to US got me thinking. What some of Prince's biggest missteps? These come to mind:

Name Change

SOTT Era has a bunch:

If I was your Girlfriend as 2nd single off SOTT

Not touring in US

No video for SOTT single

Moving on too soon with Black Album and LoveSexy

Not a mistake but Death of Baby Amir

LoveSexy cover photo

Directing UTCM himself

Disbanding the Revolution

Incorporating the Game Boyz and Tony M into band

The name "New Power Generation" still corny as AF

Rave

TRC

Not performing at Live Aid (i think not doing We are the World was the right move)

[Edited 6/12/20 8:26am]

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Reply #1 posted 06/12/20 11:11am

rusty1

emesem said:

That thread about the SOTT tour not coming to US got me thinking. What some of Prince's biggest missteps? These come to mind:




Name Change



SOTT Era has a bunch:


If I was your Girlfriend as 2nd single off SOTT


Not touring in US


No video for SOTT single


Moving on too soon with Black Album and LoveSexy



Not a mistake but Death of Baby Amir



LoveSexy cover photo



Directing UTCM himself



Disbanding the Revolution



Incorporating the Game Boyz and Tony M into band



The name "New Power Generation" still corny as AF



Rave



TRC



Not performing at Live Aid (i think not doing We are the World was the right move)



[Edited 6/12/20 8:26am]



100% agree
Well, TRC did have an organic live feel & great musicanship..
But the religion did drag it down
[Edited 6/12/20 11:13am]
BOB4theFUNK
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Reply #2 posted 06/12/20 12:28pm

TrivialPursuit

avatar

emesem said:

That thread about the SOTT tour not coming to US got me thinking. What some of Prince's biggest missteps? These come to mind:

Name Change

SOTT Era has a bunch:

If I was your Girlfriend as 2nd single off SOTT

Not touring in US

No video for SOTT single

Moving on too soon with Black Album and LoveSexy

Not a mistake but Death of Baby Amir

LoveSexy cover photo

Directing UTCM himself

Disbanding the Revolution

Incorporating the Game Boyz and Tony M into band

The name "New Power Generation" still corny as AF

Rave

TRC

Not performing at Live Aid (i think not doing We are the World was the right move)

Some thoughts:

Name change: totally okay


SOTT: def needed more US interaction (there is a video for SOTT single, probably the first lyric video ever); "Strange Relationship" should've been a single.


Lovesexy cover: not a mistake, go look at Amorica by The Black Crowes (pubic hair), Dirty Mind (pubic hair), Two Virgins by John Lennon (nudity), almost any Rude Ray Moore album cover (nudity). One has to remember that 1988 was Reagan/Bush era conservative america. Every one was upset about every damn thing. Had that cover come out 10 years later, no one would've thought twice about it. Or even 10 years before. The cover wasn't a mistake, electing Reagan and Bush were. haha


UTCM: probably - I'm not sure how great of a director Mary Lambert would've been for a movie, but someone could've gotten the job done


Revolution: probably had at least another album or two in them, a good 5-year campaign would've been great, but then we wouldn't have had SOTT or Lovesexy as we know it.


Tony M: TOTAL MISTAKE


NPG: great name, it's more of an idea (although The Revolution was too); has anyone ever thought about how silly Paisley Park sounded? It's relative, but NPG is far from a mistake. It's not damanged him. In fact, once he officially adopted the name in the band, he had a #1 hit, his first in a couple of years (not that the name had to do with it, but clearly people didn't find it off-putting when listening to "Cream").


Rave: named anything else would've been fine, but to pull out an old song and tack it on a bunch of new tracks felt like a cheat to fans


TRC: don't even get me started, but in general good music, dogma - no thanks.


Live Aid: It was so scatter brained and nutty, I'm not sure it would've been a great idea anyway. Plus, wasn't he in France at the time or at least gearing up for that? I'm sorta glad he didn't do it. MJ didn't either and no one saw that as a mistake. You know who shouldn't have done Live Aid? Led Zeppelin.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #3 posted 06/12/20 12:30pm

nayroo2002

avatar

i will just stay with the "events that changed his career" part.

Imagine Prince without influences...

"Whatever skin Ur in
we all need 2 b friends"
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Reply #4 posted 06/12/20 12:49pm

TrivialPursuit

avatar

nayroo2002 said:

i will just stay with the "events that changed his career" part.

Imagine Prince without influences...


Or someone who never took chances, dared to push the envelope, find the edge and step to it, and provoke thought. This sorta list could be made for any artist. MJ's mistakes - his appearance change, embracing New Jack Swing - anything is good or bad. madonna - the sex book, burning crosses, etc., Good or bad?

I'm glad Prince did most anything he did, whether I agreed with it or not. I can't stand TRC, but it certainly provoked conversations.

But I stand strong on Tony M. Dude should've been left on the catwalk of First Avenue.


"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #5 posted 06/12/20 1:04pm

laytonian

TrivialPursuit writes (snipped greatly):"Lovesexy cover: not a mistake, go look at Amorica by The Black Crowes (pubic hair), Dirty Mind (pubic hair), Two Virgins by John Lennon (nudity)"

I wouldn't call Lovesexy's cover a mistake but I believe the marketing was.

Two Virgins came in a plain brown wrapper with only John and Yoko's heads showing. I knew the music would be (mostly) crap but I was intrigued by the mystery, so I bought it.

Lovesexy should have been sold the same way. Many retailers refused to stock it due to the nude cover. Put it in a plain brown wrapper and no one would have refused; make people buy it to see the cover.


Welcome to "the org", laytonian… come bathe with me.
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Reply #6 posted 06/12/20 1:11pm

RJOrion

Michael Jackson embracing New Jack Swing was a mistake?...when "Dangerous" is filled with a few of the greatest songs he's ever made?..."Cant Let Her Get Away"?..."Remember The Time"?..."Jam"?.."Why You Wanna Trip On Me?" ?...
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Reply #7 posted 06/12/20 1:17pm

mediumdry

Greatest mistakes?

-taking the deal for 200 million, instead of a deal that would give him back his masters and let him do his own thing

-never following through on plans and not enabling people in his organisation to follow through for him

-stopping NPGMC

-not listening to people that wanted to help him develop paisley park into a money maker (the studios, the building, the label)

-not being willing to play ball with label and distributors to really market his material, or choosing to be completely independent, but on a much smaller scale

Paisley Park is in your heart - Love Is Here!
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Reply #8 posted 06/12/20 1:27pm

CynicKill

The single biggest misstep of his career was releasing AWTIAD after Purple Rain, and so soon after to boot.

I love the album, but it changed the entire course of his career.

Imagine being an executive at WB and hearing this for the first time.

I would've released something huge in around 1987, then after waiting for that to die down release a sequel (The Dawn?) to Purple Rain (around 1989-90).

Songs from AWTIAD and Parade could've been killer B-sides.

But this is me thinking big. Word is Prince was already fed up with megastardom post PR but me personally; I wouldn't have pissed it away.

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Reply #9 posted 06/12/20 1:34pm

SoulAlive

CynicKill said:

The single biggest misstep of his career was releasing AWTIAD after Purple Rain, and so soon after to boot.

I love the album, but it changed the entire course of his career.

Imagine being an executive at WB and hearing this for the first time.

I would've released something huge in around 1987, then after waiting for that to die down release a sequel (The Dawn?) to Purple Rain (around 1989-90).

Songs from AWTIAD and Parade could've been killer B-sides.

But this is me thinking big. Word is Prince was already fed up with megastardom post PR but me personally; I wouldn't have pissed it away.

I totally agree with this.It's not easy to get to the top,so if you're fortunate enough to get there,it's a good idea to try to hold on to that audience for awhile smile If Prince had done things differently,he could have held on to that Purple Rain audience for a long time.

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Reply #10 posted 06/12/20 7:39pm

slyjackson

emesem said:

That thread about the SOTT tour not coming to US got me thinking. What some of Prince's biggest missteps? These come to mind:

Name Change

SOTT Era has a bunch:

If I was your Girlfriend as 2nd single off SOTT

Not touring in US

No video for SOTT single

Moving on too soon with Black Album and LoveSexy

Not a mistake but Death of Baby Amir

LoveSexy cover photo

Directing UTCM himself

Disbanding the Revolution

Incorporating the Game Boyz and Tony M into band

The name "New Power Generation" still corny as AF

Rave

TRC

Not performing at Live Aid (i think not doing We are the World was the right move)

[Edited 6/12/20 8:26am]

Agree with these points

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Reply #11 posted 06/12/20 7:55pm

TrivialPursuit

avatar

RJOrion said:

Michael Jackson embracing New Jack Swing was a mistake?...when "Dangerous" is filled with a few of the greatest songs he's ever made?..."Cant Let Her Get Away"?..."Remember The Time"?..."Jam"?.."Why You Wanna Trip On Me?" ?...


What I said was anything an artist has done could be construed as good or bad. Dangerous is probably my favorite MJ album. Others balked at the Jack Swing on it.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #12 posted 06/12/20 7:56pm

TrivialPursuit

avatar

laytonian said:

Lovesexy should have been sold the same way. Many retailers refused to stock it due to the nude cover. Put it in a plain brown wrapper and no one would have refused; make people buy it to see the cover.


Retailers carried it, but kept it behind the counter, or otherwise covered.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #13 posted 06/12/20 8:23pm

udo

avatar

- Not really taking care of teh vault

- No will

- No Deluxe sets while alive

- No proper treatment by doctor (leading to his death)

- ...

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill... If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.
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Reply #14 posted 06/12/20 9:11pm

lavendardrumma
chine

mediumdry said:

-not listening to people that wanted to help him develop paisley park into a money maker (the studios, the building, the label)


Alternatively, not aligning with trustworthy people who could actually make his ideas come to fruition, and manage his affairs while keeping him realistic. When he was closer to having that, you could see the difference in what he produced.

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Reply #15 posted 06/12/20 10:21pm

CynicKill

lavendardrummachine said:

mediumdry said:

-not listening to people that wanted to help him develop paisley park into a money maker (the studios, the building, the label)


Alternatively, not aligning with trustworthy people who could actually make his ideas come to fruition, and manage his affairs while keeping him realistic. When he was closer to having that, you could see the difference in what he produced.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HB7jpJeR-n0

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Reply #16 posted 06/12/20 10:57pm

SoulAlive

the Lovesexy album cover was a mistake because it kept many people from giving the album a chance.A lot of dudes were not gonna buy an album with a nude man on the cover biggrin

..
[Edited 6/12/20 22:58pm]
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Reply #17 posted 06/13/20 12:47am

BlueShakooo

Of course there are things, I wish he would have done differently.
But I've said it before and I say it again:
It seems he did mostly the right things.
What else would explain that we (grown-ups - and mostly old) still act like teenage K-pop fans?
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Reply #18 posted 06/13/20 3:51am

nextedition

avatar

SoulAlive said:

the Lovesexy album cover was a mistake because it kept many people from giving the album a chance.A lot of dudes were not gonna buy an album with a nude man on the cover biggrin .. [Edited 6/12/20 22:58pm]

You do realise USA is not the only market in the world?

Lovesexy was a huge success in Europe. He was on the top of his game at that time, selling out stadiums. The abum hit no 1 in any countries.

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Reply #19 posted 06/13/20 6:00am

udo

avatar

SoulAlive said:

the Lovesexy album cover was a mistake because it kept many people from giving the album a chance.A lot of dudes were not gonna buy an album with a nude man on the cover biggrin ..

.

Says something abut them 'dudes'.

Also about mr Prince himself, commercial success was less important...

Pills and thrills and daffodils will kill... If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry.
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Reply #20 posted 06/13/20 6:48am

SPYZFAN1

Mistakes?...The "Graffiti Bridge" film. 1989 was the right time to release a sequel to "P.R." ("The Dawn"). Some of the fan made film ideas that I've read on the org were much better than what the movie turned out to be...Magnoli and Blinn should have been brought back too.......Another mistake?..The "Rave Un2" album. Trying too hard to keep up with the current acts, the young MTV crowd, and trying to please everyone musically.......P and the No Doubt camp really dropped the ball on not doing a video single for "So Far, So Pleased". Gwen and the band were huge back then....Not capitalizing on the "1999" album in the year 1999....(yeah, I know he did that remix album..ugh).... ...Lastly, as much as I love Larry Graham's music and bass playing, I was disappointed when he and P hooked up. I really thought they were going to bring some hardcore funk to Paisley Park, but their collabs were anything but that....also got sick of seeing/hearing them play a 2 hour medley of the old Sly songs too.

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Reply #21 posted 06/13/20 7:33am

looby

I have yet to see someone who hasn't made "mistakes" in life, Prince is no exception.

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Reply #22 posted 06/13/20 8:31am

SantanaMaitrey
a

SoulAlive said:



CynicKill said:


The single biggest misstep of his career was releasing AWTIAD after Purple Rain, and so soon after to boot.


I love the album, but it changed the entire course of his career.


Imagine being an executive at WB and hearing this for the first time.


I would've released something huge in around 1987, then after waiting for that to die down release a sequel (The Dawn?) to Purple Rain (around 1989-90).


Songs from AWTIAD and Parade could've been killer B-sides.


But this is me thinking big. Word is Prince was already fed up with megastardom post PR but me personally; I wouldn't have pissed it away.






I totally agree with this.It's not easy to get to the top,so if you're fortunate enough to get there,it's a good idea to try to hold on to that audience for awhile smile If Prince had done things differently,he could have held on to that Purple Rain audience for a long time.




But that's exactly what he didn't want!
O tempora! O mores!
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Reply #23 posted 06/13/20 8:44am

Lianachan

avatar

Three words - Larry fucking Graham.
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge"" ~ Isaac Asimov
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Reply #24 posted 06/13/20 9:12am

Empress

I can't really say that Prince made terrible mistakes because his decisions are what made him "Prince". However, I will say his so called JW conversion was not overly welcomed. I wish he had of released more live concert DVDs and albums. I also feel not having a will was a huge lack of judgement on his part for someone that was so successful and intelligent. And last but not least, he should've tried harder to get his pain under better management and been more open to getting the proper help. That's all I'll say about that.
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Reply #25 posted 06/13/20 9:43am

looby

Empress said:

I can't really say that Prince made terrible mistakes because his decisions are what made him "Prince". However, I will say his so called JW conversion was not overly welcomed. I wish he had of released more live concert DVDs and albums. I also feel not having a will was a huge lack of judgement on his part for someone that was so successful and intelligent. And last but not least, he should've tried harder to get his pain under better management and been more open to getting the proper help. That's all I'll say about that.

I agree with what you say, but I think we all should remember that Prince's life and decisions that he made in his life, were his and his alone to make. We may not have agreed with some of things he did, or even liked or welcomed them, but it was his life and his choices to make, mistakes or not! We all make decisions about our own lives, as we should, and I'm sure that we all feel like no one has the right or authority to tell us how to make those decisions, and what we should or shouldn't do. Prince is no exception. His life and the decisions he made were his own, whether we like them or not. Who are we to say what was a mistake and what wasn't? Can we have an opinion about it....sure, but Prince's life and every decision he made in it, was his and his alone.

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Reply #26 posted 06/13/20 10:07am

SoulAlive

SantanaMaitreya said:

SoulAlive said:



CynicKill said:


The single biggest misstep of his career was releasing AWTIAD after Purple Rain, and so soon after to boot.


I love the album, but it changed the entire course of his career.


Imagine being an executive at WB and hearing this for the first time.


I would've released something huge in around 1987, then after waiting for that to die down release a sequel (The Dawn?) to Purple Rain (around 1989-90).


Songs from AWTIAD and Parade could've been killer B-sides.


But this is me thinking big. Word is Prince was already fed up with megastardom post PR but me personally; I wouldn't have pissed it away.






I totally agree with this.It's not easy to get to the top,so if you're fortunate enough to get there,it's a good idea to try to hold on to that audience for awhile smile If Prince had done things differently,he could have held on to that Purple Rain audience for a long time.




But that's exactly what he didn't want!


I know....but it’s interesting to think about what could have been.
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Reply #27 posted 06/13/20 10:43am

SoulAlive

SPYZFAN1 said:

Mistakes?...The "Graffiti Bridge" film. 1989 was the right time to release a sequel to "P.R." ("The Dawn"). Some of the fan made film ideas that I've read on the org were much better than what the movie turned out to be...Magnoli and Blinn should have been brought back too

At an early stage,Magnoli was on board to direct Graffiti Bridge,but (surprise,surprise) they had a falling out and Prince decided to direct the film himself.Sound familiar? LOL

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Reply #28 posted 06/13/20 7:45pm

Seahorsie

avatar

udo said:

- Not really taking care of teh vault


- No will


- No Deluxe sets while alive


- No proper treatment by doctor (leading to his death)


- ...



Yes, Udo...the doctor was needed. So sad.
Good morning children...take a look out your window, the world is falling...
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Reply #29 posted 06/15/20 12:05am

leecaldon

emesem said:

That thread about the SOTT tour not coming to US got me thinking. What some of Prince's biggest missteps? These come to mind:

Name Change

SOTT Era has a bunch:

If I was your Girlfriend as 2nd single off SOTT

Not touring in US

No video for SOTT single

Moving on too soon with Black Album and LoveSexy

Not a mistake but Death of Baby Amir

LoveSexy cover photo

Directing UTCM himself

Disbanding the Revolution

Incorporating the Game Boyz and Tony M into band

The name "New Power Generation" still corny as AF

Rave

TRC

Not performing at Live Aid (i think not doing We are the World was the right move)

[Edited 6/12/20 8:26am]

But SOTT did have a music video.

Always like the NPG name. Although I found it strange strange that his career was bookended by bands who had their own specific name (Revolution and 3rdEyeGirl) but every band for two decades in between had the same name.

I don't think Prince was on enough people's radar at the time of TRC for it to have any significant negative impact (because of the subject matter) on his career.

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