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Reply #60 posted 05/03/19 6:09am

Kares

avatar

databank said:

Kares said:

.
Oops, I forgot about that. You're right, it belongs on this list.

[Edited 5/3/19 4:19am]

Your list is pretty much the same as mine except you put your limit at 50% and did not include video albums except for Undertaker.

Milk and Honey can't be included though because it is remains unreleased.

.
Sorry, but I'm a free man so I can put anything I want on my list. smile
.
I treat it as released, just as I treat The Undertaker CD as released because a few copies slipped through the cracks and because I like them. smile (For the same reasons I also include the 'Deliverance' EP on my version of the 'EPs and Singles' list.) This doesn't mean that I'm unaware that they weren't released officially, I just thought I'd share my version of the 'core albums' catalog to illustrate that there are several titles that can be debated endlessly whether they'd belong to this or that category.

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Reply #61 posted 05/03/19 8:14am

jaawwnn

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Left out Prince & Andy Allo - Oui Can Love

I tend to include Superconductor and Back in Time as well, just because Prince's production and playing is all over them. Mileage may vary on those I guess.

[Edited 5/3/19 8:22am]

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Reply #62 posted 05/03/19 8:33am

Kares

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jaawwnn said:

Left out Prince & Andy Allo - Oui Can Love

I tend to include Superconductor and Back in Time as well, just because Prince's production and playing is all over them. Mileage may vary on those I guess.

[Edited 5/3/19 8:22am]

.

OK, I thought it over and I'm adding 'Oui Can Luv'. Prince's guitar playing is just so delicate it must be on the list, I agree. smile And I'm adding the other two too. Thanks.

[Edited 5/4/19 1:32am]

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Reply #63 posted 05/04/19 5:26am

databank

avatar

Kares said:

databank said:

Your list is pretty much the same as mine except you put your limit at 50% and did not include video albums except for Undertaker.

Milk and Honey can't be included though because it is remains unreleased.

.
Sorry, but I'm a free man so I can put anything I want on my list. smile
.
I treat it as released, just as I treat The Undertaker CD as released because a few copies slipped through the cracks and because I like them. smile (For the same reasons I also include the 'Deliverance' EP on my version of the 'EPs and Singles' list.) This doesn't mean that I'm unaware that they weren't released officially, I just thought I'd share my version of the 'core albums' catalog to illustrate that there are several titles that can be debated endlessly whether they'd belong to this or that category.

It's not about being a free man. I am a free man too, you know, so I could decide to add Stevie Wonder's Innervision and a Wagner opera to my Prince discography, and if I disliked Purple Rain I could also decide to remove PR from my Prince discography, but is that the point?

.

I really do not understand this "freedom" argument, particularly from someone reasonable like you. Just because one can does not mean that one should. And here we were originally talking about what a Prince discography should be on the official site or any reliable online database, not what our own personal dream discography is or would be. So granted this is your personal discography and that's cool, I understand that and it's cool, but that wasn't really the topic at hand at first

.

Because my dream Prince discography also includes those other full albums have leaked, from The Flesh to the two Madhouse 24 to MC Flash and so on, so why not add those too? The audio version of TU and M&H were almost released, I wish they were, but cold fact is that they were not. Copies leaked but they were never released. To this day they are not part of the canon, neither was TBA prior to 1994. It cannot be debated anymore than it can be debated whether Purple Rain was released or unreleased.

.

Oui Can Luv is another animal entirely. By "old" standards it remains unreleased since it was never available for purchase: streaming is similar to a TV or radio broadcast or a promo: made available for the audience to hear but not to own. This being said in this day and age, when streams have become the main way for people to "purchase" music, maybe we could consider streams as releases. Princevault chose to do this with We Can Luv, while I chose to label it as a "stream" and not to include it in the main albums discography, but this is more debatable, I'm sort of open to changing my mind about this and differentiate streams from broadcasts because the internet is a universal format (unlike TV or radio back in the days). But what if iHeart radio or Netflix streamed an entire show? Should we consider those live releases as well? This may happen and we're going to have a headache confused

[Edited 5/4/19 5:29am]

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #64 posted 05/04/19 5:28am

databank

avatar

jaawwnn said:

Left out Prince & Andy Allo - Oui Can Love

I tend to include Superconductor and Back in Time as well, just because Prince's production and playing is all over them. Mileage may vary on those I guess.

[Edited 5/3/19 8:22am]

Me too, those were collaborations and Prince is indeed all over them even if he didn't compose everything.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #65 posted 05/04/19 6:32am

Kares

avatar

databank said:

Kares said:

.
Sorry, but I'm a free man so I can put anything I want on my list. smile
.
I treat it as released, just as I treat The Undertaker CD as released because a few copies slipped through the cracks and because I like them. smile (For the same reasons I also include the 'Deliverance' EP on my version of the 'EPs and Singles' list.) This doesn't mean that I'm unaware that they weren't released officially, I just thought I'd share my version of the 'core albums' catalog to illustrate that there are several titles that can be debated endlessly whether they'd belong to this or that category.

It's not about being a free man. I am a free man too, you know, so I could decide to add Stevie Wonder's Innervision and a Wagner opera to my Prince discography, and if I disliked Purple Rain I could also decide to remove PR from my Prince discography, but is that the point?

.

I really do not understand this "freedom" argument, particularly from someone reasonable like you. Just because one can does not mean that one should. And here we were originally talking about what a Prince discography should be on the official site or any reliable online database, not what our own personal dream discography is or would be. So granted this is your personal discography and that's cool, I understand that and it's cool, but that wasn't really the topic at hand at first

.

Because my dream Prince discography also includes those other full albums have leaked, from The Flesh to the two Madhouse 24 to MC Flash and so on, so why not add those too? The audio version of TU and M&H were almost released, I wish they were, but cold fact is that they were not. Copies leaked but they were never released. To this day they are not part of the canon, neither was TBA prior to 1994. It cannot be debated anymore than it can be debated whether Purple Rain was released or unreleased.

.

Oui Can Luv is another animal entirely. By "old" standards it remains unreleased since it was never available for purchase: streaming is similar to a TV or radio broadcast or a promo: made available for the audience to hear but not to own. This being said in this day and age, when streams have become the main way for people to "purchase" music, maybe we could consider streams as releases. Princevault chose to do this with We Can Luv, while I chose to label it as a "stream" and not to include it in the main albums discography, but this is more debatable, I'm sort of open to changing my mind about this and differentiate streams from broadcasts because the internet is a universal format (unlike TV or radio back in the days). But what if iHeart radio or Netflix streamed an entire show? Should we consider those live releases as well? This may happen and we're going to have a headache confused

[Edited 5/4/19 5:29am]

.

There was a smiley right next to my comment about being a free man but it appears that it went unnoticed. Anyway, I was kidding.

.
My list was undoubtedly and admittedly subjective and I stand by it as such. It doesn't necessarily mean that if I'd be in charge of the Estate or its website, that is what I would publish as The Official Prince Discography – that decision would require more careful consideration of additional factors. 'The Undertaker' album was released officially, albeit with a slight difference, one song being a different version, but just because it was released on video formats such as LD, doesn't make it any less of an album than it would be in case of a CD-release.
'Milk & Honey' WAS available briefly in Japan, therefore it can also be considered 'released', even though it was promptly withdrawn from that market and never came out in other territories either. .
'Oui Can Luv' was also released/published/sold on the streaming site, even if it wasn't available for download, you had to pay for using Tidal to listen to it. It is an official release, regardless of it having been limited to one distribution format and one distributor.
.
If Netflix streams a concert, that's a release too. It means it's already published, even if no other distribution channels will license it and even if it won't get a physical release, that doesn't matter.
.

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

The Paisley Park Vault spreadsheet: https://goo.gl/zzWHrU
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Reply #66 posted 05/04/19 6:52am

databank

avatar

Kares said:

databank said:

It's not about being a free man. I am a free man too, you know, so I could decide to add Stevie Wonder's Innervision and a Wagner opera to my Prince discography, and if I disliked Purple Rain I could also decide to remove PR from my Prince discography, but is that the point?

.

I really do not understand this "freedom" argument, particularly from someone reasonable like you. Just because one can does not mean that one should. And here we were originally talking about what a Prince discography should be on the official site or any reliable online database, not what our own personal dream discography is or would be. So granted this is your personal discography and that's cool, I understand that and it's cool, but that wasn't really the topic at hand at first

.

Because my dream Prince discography also includes those other full albums have leaked, from The Flesh to the two Madhouse 24 to MC Flash and so on, so why not add those too? The audio version of TU and M&H were almost released, I wish they were, but cold fact is that they were not. Copies leaked but they were never released. To this day they are not part of the canon, neither was TBA prior to 1994. It cannot be debated anymore than it can be debated whether Purple Rain was released or unreleased.

.

Oui Can Luv is another animal entirely. By "old" standards it remains unreleased since it was never available for purchase: streaming is similar to a TV or radio broadcast or a promo: made available for the audience to hear but not to own. This being said in this day and age, when streams have become the main way for people to "purchase" music, maybe we could consider streams as releases. Princevault chose to do this with We Can Luv, while I chose to label it as a "stream" and not to include it in the main albums discography, but this is more debatable, I'm sort of open to changing my mind about this and differentiate streams from broadcasts because the internet is a universal format (unlike TV or radio back in the days). But what if iHeart radio or Netflix streamed an entire show? Should we consider those live releases as well? This may happen and we're going to have a headache confused

[Edited 5/4/19 5:29am]

.

There was a smiley right next to my comment about being a free man but it appears that it went unnoticed. Anyway, I was kidding.

.
My list was undoubtedly and admittedly subjective and I stand by it as such. It doesn't necessarily mean that if I'd be in charge of the Estate or its website, that is what I would publish as The Official Prince Discography – that decision would require more careful consideration of additional factors. 'The Undertaker' album was released officially, albeit with a slight difference, one song being a different version, but just because it was released on video formats such as LD, doesn't make it any less of an album than it would be in case of a CD-release.
'Milk & Honey' WAS available briefly in Japan, therefore it can also be considered 'released', even though it was promptly withdrawn from that market and never came out in other territories either. .
'Oui Can Luv' was also released/published/sold on the streaming site, even if it wasn't available for download, you had to pay for using Tidal to listen to it. It is an official release, regardless of it having been limited to one distribution format and one distributor.
.
If Netflix streams a concert, that's a release too. It means it's already published, even if no other distribution channels will license it and even if it won't get a physical release, that doesn't matter.
.

Sorry about the smiley I hadn't seen it, I'm under tremendous stress these days, I'm distracted and I miss things.

Yes, TU was released as a video album and I consider this version as part of the discography as well as PR live, Lovesexy live, Aladdin etc.

Apparently, that's what I could gather so far at least, M&H was not available legally then withdrawn, it was sent to stores then withdrawn before the release date but some shops stole and sold some copies, or maybe put it out a few days before the official release date I'm not sure, but apparently those sales were not authorized either way. Sadly information was scarce about this and that's all I could gather, if it was confirmed that those sales were legit I would change my position.

As for Oui Can Love I feel ya but then what to make of Parade Live and the 3 Nude Tour shows that were aired, and Rock In Rio? Would you include them, too? What stops me in all cases is that unless you'd record the broadcast or manage to hijack the files from Tidal or get a promo copy, consumers were not able to own/keep a copy of those broadcasts and streams.

[Edited 5/4/19 6:52am]

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #67 posted 05/04/19 7:13am

Kares

avatar

databank said:

Kares said:

.

There was a smiley right next to my comment about being a free man but it appears that it went unnoticed. Anyway, I was kidding.

.
My list was undoubtedly and admittedly subjective and I stand by it as such. It doesn't necessarily mean that if I'd be in charge of the Estate or its website, that is what I would publish as The Official Prince Discography – that decision would require more careful consideration of additional factors. 'The Undertaker' album was released officially, albeit with a slight difference, one song being a different version, but just because it was released on video formats such as LD, doesn't make it any less of an album than it would be in case of a CD-release.
'Milk & Honey' WAS available briefly in Japan, therefore it can also be considered 'released', even though it was promptly withdrawn from that market and never came out in other territories either. .
'Oui Can Luv' was also released/published/sold on the streaming site, even if it wasn't available for download, you had to pay for using Tidal to listen to it. It is an official release, regardless of it having been limited to one distribution format and one distributor.
.
If Netflix streams a concert, that's a release too. It means it's already published, even if no other distribution channels will license it and even if it won't get a physical release, that doesn't matter.
.

Sorry about the smiley I hadn't seen it, I'm under tremendous stress these days, I'm distracted and I miss things.

Yes, TU was released as a video album and I consider this version as part of the discography as well as PR live, Lovesexy live, Aladdin etc.

Apparently, that's what I could gather so far at least, M&H was not available legally then withdrawn, it was sent to stores then withdrawn before the release date but some shops stole and sold some copies, or maybe put it out a few days before the official release date I'm not sure, but apparently those sales were not authorized either way. Sadly information was scarce about this and that's all I could gather, if it was confirmed that those sales were legit I would change my position.

As for Oui Can Love I feel ya but then what to make of Parade Live and the 3 Nude Tour shows that were aired, and Rock In Rio? Would you include them, too? What stops me in all cases is that unless you'd record the broadcast or manage to hijack the files from Tidal or get a promo copy, consumers were not able to own/keep a copy of those broadcasts and streams.

[Edited 5/4/19 6:52am]

.

No worries, my friend, I understand.
PR Live, Lovesexy Live etc. weren't new material. And 'The Undertaker' was almost released on CD too, Prince had every intention to release it as an album, afaik he was just stopped by Warners. So yes, I'm bending the rules here a bit, but I consider it as a release.
.
I have no proof of 'M&H' having been sold legally in Japan or not, if you have info that says otherwise, I'll accept it of course.

.
In my opinion when something is broadcast or streamed, that means it's officially released/published. It means those compositions had to be registered with one of the copyright administration societies and the writers/composers have been paid for the broadcast or stream or pay-per-view or download or whatever distribution method was used. I would include all of these in a list of video releases, but not in the core list of albums, as they are mostly compositions previously released by the same artist. But if you're combining all these, then yes, I think they should be included.
.

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Reply #68 posted 05/06/19 6:37am

databank

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Another thing I realized today: while each and every 1996-2010 Prince album was part of the distribution deal with Legacy, NPS isn't, neither is it represented on the anthology compilation. Apparently, whichever contract Legacy and the Estate signed only included "Prince" albums, not the side projects and it appears that legally speaking NPS is a NPG album...

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Reply #69 posted 05/06/19 10:11am

Kares

avatar

databank said:

Another thing I realized today: while each and every 1996-2010 Prince album was part of the distribution deal with Legacy, NPS isn't, neither is it represented on the anthology compilation. Apparently, whichever contract Legacy and the Estate signed only included "Prince" albums, not the side projects and it appears that legally speaking NPS is a NPG album...

.
(nevermind, sorry smile )

[Edited 5/6/19 10:14am]

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

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