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Reply #30 posted 05/01/19 8:56am

databank

avatar

jaawwnn said:

Kares said:

.

The only difference between albums credited to 'prince' and albums credited to 'NPG' (or 'Madhouse' or 'NPG Orchestra' or whatever else) is that for the former he openly admitted that it's him, while for the latter he chose to play hide-and-seek.

Well, if I believed that, which I don't, i'd have to ask what on earth Prince was thinking when he released an album where he calls himself a Nasty Girl and who exactly is The Most Beautiful Boy in the World about? Kirk?

It's called narrative fiction.

You may be intersted in knowing that not all songs are autobiography, that the narrator is a character who isn't always the author and/or the singer and that singers who sing songs by other artists have not always experienced the events or feelings described in the song themselves.

If I write a play that feature women and female actors play it, I'm still a dude and it's still my play, not theirs.

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Reply #31 posted 05/01/19 8:58am

databank

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Kares said:

jaawwnn said:

Well, if I believed that, which I don't, i'd have to ask what on earth Prince was thinking when he released an album where he calls himself a Nasty Girl and who exactly is The Most Beautiful Boy in the World about? Kirk?

.
Mayte is a real person. 'Madhouse', 'The NPG' and 'The NPG Orchestra' weren't real bands, they were different bRands Prince made up to market his music.
.
And before someone would jump at my throat: what I mean on that 'The NPG' wasn't a real band is that they weren't a band on their own rights, they were hired guns who played with Prince and did as they were told. They are great musicians (well, most of them) and since Prince's passing they became a band playing Prince's music, but during Prince's lifetime 'The NPG' only existed when Prince decided so and it included people Prince decided to employ.

In that sense, Mayte was also a hired gun, Prince could have replaced her overnight and have another girl sing those songs and have her release Child Of The Sun.

So in that context I'm afraid that no, Mayte was not a real person (sorry Mayte if you read this, I love you still) lol

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Reply #32 posted 05/01/19 8:59am

jaawwnn

avatar

databank said:

jaawwnn said:

Well, if I believed that, which I don't, i'd have to ask what on earth Prince was thinking when he released an album where he calls himself a Nasty Girl and who exactly is The Most Beautiful Boy in the World about? Kirk?

It's called narrative fiction.

You may be intersted in knowing that not all songs are autobiography, that the narrator is a character who isn't always the author and/or the singer and that singers who sing songs by other artists have not always experienced the events or feelings described in the song themselves.

If I write a play that feature women and female actors play it, I'm still a dude and it's still my play, not theirs.

Your taking my point and using it against me! hammer


I consider the associated artist albums to be worth not thinking of as "Prince" albums because he explored stuff on them he didn't or wouldn't want out on his name, not to mention some of the dodgy edits he allowed happen on Time albums that would never have happened on his own. I know who wrote the albums, I know whose vision it is ultimately, but I believe to respect what he was going for you need to include the context of why they came out as they did.

Which is what makes the messiness of the NewPower Soul album so interesting.

[Edited 5/1/19 9:03am]

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Reply #33 posted 05/01/19 9:06am

Kares

avatar

databank said:

Kares said:

.
Mayte is a real person. 'Madhouse', 'The NPG' and 'The NPG Orchestra' weren't real bands, they were different bRands Prince made up to market his music.
.
And before someone would jump at my throat: what I mean on that 'The NPG' wasn't a real band is that they weren't a band on their own rights, they were hired guns who played with Prince and did as they were told. They are great musicians (well, most of them) and since Prince's passing they became a band playing Prince's music, but during Prince's lifetime 'The NPG' only existed when Prince decided so and it included people Prince decided to employ.

In that sense, Mayte was also a hired gun, Prince could have replaced her overnight and have another girl sing those songs and have her release Child Of The Sun.

So in that context I'm afraid that no, Mayte was not a real person (sorry Mayte if you read this, I love you still) lol

.

Oh please, 'Mayte' is not a brand or marketing label Prince came up with, she's a real person and that's her name. Of course Prince could've given the songs to someone else but even he couldn't gotten away with calling that other woman 'Mayte' too...
The band names, however, are purely fictious and were owned by Prince and those 'bands' didn't play a note without his approval.
('The NPG Orchestra' didn't even exist in any shape of form, it was just a meaningless label he used instead of 'Prince'. But that's no way a valid reason in my eyes to leave 'Kamasutra' and 'The War' off Prince discographies and to treat 'The NPG Orchestra' as an "associated artist".)
.

[Edited 5/1/19 9:25am]

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Reply #34 posted 05/01/19 9:58am

databank

avatar

jaawwnn said:

databank said:

It's called narrative fiction.

You may be intersted in knowing that not all songs are autobiography, that the narrator is a character who isn't always the author and/or the singer and that singers who sing songs by other artists have not always experienced the events or feelings described in the song themselves.

If I write a play that feature women and female actors play it, I'm still a dude and it's still my play, not theirs.

Your taking my point and using it against me! hammer


I consider the associated artist albums to be worth not thinking of as "Prince" albums because he explored stuff on them he didn't or wouldn't want out on his name, not to mention some of the dodgy edits he allowed happen on Time albums that would never have happened on his own. I know who wrote the albums, I know whose vision it is ultimately, but I believe to respect what he was going for you need to include the context of why they came out as they did.

Which is what makes the messiness of the NewPower Soul album so interesting.

[Edited 5/1/19 9:03am]

OK, I realize we're aguing on semantics.

OK, if we accept that "Prince" was a character distinct from "Prince Rogers Nelson" the person and the artist, then I'm with you nod

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Reply #35 posted 05/01/19 10:15am

databank

avatar

Kares said:

databank said:

In that sense, Mayte was also a hired gun, Prince could have replaced her overnight and have another girl sing those songs and have her release Child Of The Sun.

So in that context I'm afraid that no, Mayte was not a real person (sorry Mayte if you read this, I love you still) lol

.

Oh please, 'Mayte' is not a brand or marketing label Prince came up with, she's a real person and that's her name.

It sure wasn't Carmen, Vanity or Apollonia's real names, though lol If Prince hadn't liked the name Mayte she could just as well have been called Lolita. Ask Tommy Barbarella how much of a say he had in his own stage name lol

.

Of course Prince could've given the songs to someone else but even he couldn't gotten away with calling that other woman 'Mayte' too...

Unless she had copyrighted the name "Mayte" as a brand, I'm afraid he could have. People would have tripped because they already knew her but people would also have tripped if Prince had replaced the whole Time by new people, and they would have tripped if he'd called 3rdEyeGirl The Revolution. He got away with the NPG because he sort of made it implict that from now on all his bands would carry that name and because people didn't really care about the original version. Back to Mayte, I think I could get away with releasing an album under the name Mayte tomorrow if I wanted to lol

.
The band names, however, are purely fictious and were owned by Prince and those 'bands' didn't play a note without his approval.

I don't think Mayte sang a single note on that album that he didn't approve of. Carmen recently confessed she didn't even have a say on which songs from the sessions made it to her album, I don't think it was much different for Mayte. They were no more real than anybandmember when it comes to their artistic control neutral

.
('The NPG Orchestra' didn't even exist in any shape of form, it was just a meaningless label he used instead of 'Prince'. But that's no way a valid reason in my eyes to leave 'Kamasutra' and 'The War' off Prince discographies and to treat 'The NPG Orchestra' as an "associated artist".)

The War is New Power Generation (so is C-Note in fact, look at the cover). Kamasutra is The NPG Orchestra. IDK, in the end it's just a game, from the perspective of a creative process it doesn't change anything whether there is an actor to play the part of whether there's none. I see no difference between Mayte singing Child Of The Sun and getting the credit vs. Eric playing the sax on N.E.W.S. and not getting the credit. Many artists have released albums under monikers, and many others have released albums under their own name featuring a guest vocalist on all songs. At the end of the day there is no way to treat either process differently: the question remains that if Prince was the leading force it counts in his discography, but if you choose to separate Prince albums from related artists then monikers count as related artists.
.

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Reply #36 posted 05/01/19 10:23am

databank

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^And you may ask why not pick and choose? Because no matter where you draw the line between what is and what isn't Prince it gets very arbitrary. I will include things that you will exclude and vice versa. Madhouse is Prince because it wasn't a real band at the time the first album was recorded? OK, but then eventually there was a band on stage. And even by the time the first album was recorded, Eric was real person and was sold as bandleader to the press, so it could have been the first solo Eric Leeds album (it would have if Eric had boobs lol ), and so on...

.

That's why I says there's no point in arguing when is it a moniker and when is it a related artist. It is what's written on the cover, period. But but at the same time we know who did what and what belongs to P's discography and what does not. What he did belongs to his discography, no matter who got the credit or who collaborated more or less closely.

.

But at some point when it comes to the official website, either they go George Clinton style and make one big discography with everything, or they separate and then they should follow the official credits when it comes to what is Prince and what is "major albums produced by Prince".

.

[Edited 5/1/19 10:26am]

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Reply #37 posted 05/01/19 10:25am

Kares

avatar

databank said:

Kares said:

.

Oh please, 'Mayte' is not a brand or marketing label Prince came up with, she's a real person and that's her name.

It sure wasn't Carmen, Vanity or Apollonia's real names, though lol If Prince hadn't liked the name Mayte she could just as well have been called Lolita. Ask Tommy Barbarella how much of a say he had in his own stage name lol

.

Of course Prince could've given the songs to someone else but even he couldn't gotten away with calling that other woman 'Mayte' too...

Unless she had copyrighted the name "Mayte" as a brand, I'm afraid he could have. People would have tripped because they already knew her but people would also have tripped if Prince had replaced the whole Time by new people, and they would have tripped if he'd called 3rdEyeGirl The Revolution. He got away with the NPG because he sort of made it implict that from now on all his bands would carry that name and because people didn't really care about the original version. Back to Mayte, I think I could get away with releasing an album under the name Mayte tomorrow if I wanted to lol

.
The band names, however, are purely fictious and were owned by Prince and those 'bands' didn't play a note without his approval.

I don't think Mayte sang a single note on that album that he didn't approve of. Carmen recently confessed she didn't even have a say on which songs from the sessions made it to her album, I don't think it was much different for Mayte. They were no more real than anybandmember when it comes to their artistic control neutral

.
('The NPG Orchestra' didn't even exist in any shape of form, it was just a meaningless label he used instead of 'Prince'. But that's no way a valid reason in my eyes to leave 'Kamasutra' and 'The War' off Prince discographies and to treat 'The NPG Orchestra' as an "associated artist".)

The War is New Power Generation (so is C-Note in fact, look at the cover). Kamasutra is The NPG Orchestra. IDK, in the end it's just a game, from the perspective of a creative process it doesn't change anything whether there is an actor to play the part of whether there's none. I see no difference between Mayte singing Child Of The Sun and getting the credit vs. Eric playing the sax on N.E.W.S. and not getting the credit. Many artists have released albums under monikers, and many others have released albums under their own name featuring a guest vocalist on all songs. At the end of the day there is no way to treat either process differently: the question remains that if Prince was the leading force it counts in his discography, but if you choose to separate Prince albums from related artists then monikers count as related artists.
.

.
I sincerely hope Mayte would've torn his hair out if he gave songs to another woman and called her 'Mayte' too. And he would've deserved it. smile

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Reply #38 posted 05/01/19 10:26am

databank

avatar

Kares said:

databank said:

.
I sincerely hope Mayte would've torn his hair out if he gave songs to another woman and called her 'Mayte' too. And he would've deserved it. smile

lol

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Reply #39 posted 05/01/19 12:43pm

lurker316

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databank said:

^And you may ask why not pick and choose? Because no matter where you draw the line between what is and what isn't Prince it gets very arbitrary. I will include things that you will exclude and vice versa. Madhouse is Prince because it wasn't a real band at the time the first album was recorded? OK, but then eventually there was a band on stage. And even by the time the first album was recorded, Eric was real person and was sold as bandleader to the press, so it could have been the first solo Eric Leeds album (it would have if Eric had boobs lol ), and so on...

.

That's why I says there's no point in arguing when is it a moniker and when is it a related artist. It is what's written on the cover, period. But but at the same time we know who did what and what belongs to P's discography and what does not. What he did belongs to his discography, no matter who got the credit or who collaborated more or less closely.

.

But at some point when it comes to the official website, either they go George Clinton style and make one big discography with everything, or they separate and then they should follow the official credits when it comes to what is Prince and what is "major albums produced by Prince".

.

[Edited 5/1/19 10:26am]

.

I think I am following you...

.

You're saying there are only two objective ways to list his discogrophy:

.

1.) Lump everything together and make no differentiations (that way no subjective judgment is needed), or

.

2.) Divide them based on the official credits, i.e. the names Prince himself put on the spine (that way no subjective judgement is needed).

.

If you try to decided which side projects and associated artists to include or exclude, you are by definition making a subjective, arbitrary decision. And whatever you decide, other fans will disagree.

.

The only problem with option 1, lumping everything together, is that there are still some grey areas. Obviously albums that are 95% Prince would be included, regardless of whose name is on the spine or who is singing lead vocals. But what to do with those albums that are only, say, 50% Prince?

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Reply #40 posted 05/01/19 2:11pm

databank

avatar

lurker316 said:

databank said:

^And you may ask why not pick and choose? Because no matter where you draw the line between what is and what isn't Prince it gets very arbitrary. I will include things that you will exclude and vice versa. Madhouse is Prince because it wasn't a real band at the time the first album was recorded? OK, but then eventually there was a band on stage. And even by the time the first album was recorded, Eric was real person and was sold as bandleader to the press, so it could have been the first solo Eric Leeds album (it would have if Eric had boobs lol ), and so on...

.

That's why I says there's no point in arguing when is it a moniker and when is it a related artist. It is what's written on the cover, period. But but at the same time we know who did what and what belongs to P's discography and what does not. What he did belongs to his discography, no matter who got the credit or who collaborated more or less closely.

.

But at some point when it comes to the official website, either they go George Clinton style and make one big discography with everything, or they separate and then they should follow the official credits when it comes to what is Prince and what is "major albums produced by Prince".

.

[Edited 5/1/19 10:26am]

.

I think I am following you...

.

You're saying there are only two objective ways to list his discogrophy:

.

1.) Lump everything together and make no differentiations (that way no subjective judgment is needed), or

.

2.) Divide them based on the official credits, i.e. the names Prince himself put on the spine (that way no subjective judgement is needed).

.

If you try to decided which side projects and associated artists to include or exclude, you are by definition making a subjective, arbitrary decision. And whatever you decide, other fans will disagree.

.

The only problem with option 1, lumping everything together, is that there are still some grey areas. Obviously albums that are 95% Prince would be included, regardless of whose name is on the spine or who is singing lead vocals. But what to do with those albums that are only, say, 50% Prince?

Yes. You got me.

On my site of course the main discography is song-based but if you look at the albums bonus page my limit is 75% Prince. Of course this is totally arbitrary: why not 74 or 76 or 50 or 95. At best you could say it's an album only if Prince is involved to some extent to 100% of the record, and it works, but then you lose Romance 1600 for example (7 songs out of 8), and it could be argued Romance is an important piece of the cake. On the other hand I exclude May 19, 1991, but Prince was directly involved on 6 out of 11 tracks (one of wich as musician only) and was somewhat involved with the overall concept (Michael and Levi finished it based on what he had started). On the other hand Elisa Fiorillo's I Am has 5 Prince songs out of 10 but he really had nothing to do with the basic concepts of the whole album, he just contributed some stuff. What about an album like Judith Hill's Back In Time, where he produced, co-arranged and played almost everything but did not compose, or Times Squared, an album based on tracks he originated but allowed a collaborator to finish based on basic recordings, not to mention the 94 East recordings where Prince acted as a sideman but is on every goddamn track as a musician? It's complicated, there is no ideal solution, let alone a simple one which is why I suggest the offciial website should have:

1/ "Prince / prince " albums (including "and the + band")

2/ Side projects from X% limit onwards (they appear to have chosen 50% but don't stick to their own rule)

3/ Albums with a few songs below X% limit

Here on the official site it's nonsense: they have Pandemonium (5 songs out of 10), Sheila E. (5 songs out of 10), May 19, 1992 (6 songs out of 11), The Voice (8 songs out of 12) but omit Carmen Electra (11 songs out of 11), Child Of The Sun (12 songs out of 12) and Times Squared (10 songs out of 11). They don't have a goddamn clue what they're doing sad

[Edited 5/1/19 14:14pm]

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Reply #41 posted 05/01/19 3:01pm

WhisperingDand
elions

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I'm sure by June 30, 1998, two-years freed from his WB contract, active CEO of NPG records, releasing a record put out solely by NPG records, in complete control of his career if Prince really wanted New Power Soul to be labeled and considered a "Prince" album, he probably would have labeled and released it as a Prince album.

.

I feel like all this fan mental resorting "oh The Time records are Prince albums, Madhouse wasn't real" etc. is fun, great, I do it myself, believe me, I keep everything he had so much as a sneeze in sorted in my Prince folder, re-ID3 tagged as "Prince" music so even Taja Seville tracks come up under his name, but in terms of "official discographies" we should probably be respectful and sort them like he sorted them and label them as he labeled them.

[Edited 5/1/19 15:04pm]

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Reply #42 posted 05/01/19 3:10pm

jaawwnn

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databank said:



jaawwnn said:




databank said:



It's called narrative fiction.


You may be intersted in knowing that not all songs are autobiography, that the narrator is a character who isn't always the author and/or the singer and that singers who sing songs by other artists have not always experienced the events or feelings described in the song themselves.


If I write a play that feature women and female actors play it, I'm still a dude and it's still my play, not theirs.



Your taking my point and using it against me! hammer


I consider the associated artist albums to be worth not thinking of as "Prince" albums because he explored stuff on them he didn't or wouldn't want out on his name, not to mention some of the dodgy edits he allowed happen on Time albums that would never have happened on his own. I know who wrote the albums, I know whose vision it is ultimately, but I believe to respect what he was going for you need to include the context of why they came out as they did.

Which is what makes the messiness of the NewPower Soul album so interesting.


[Edited 5/1/19 9:03am]



OK, I realize we're aguing on semantics.


OK, if we accept that "Prince" was a character distinct from "Prince Rogers Nelson" the person and the artist, then I'm with you nod


Yah, pretty much. And its all in good fun.
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Reply #43 posted 05/01/19 3:12pm

databank

avatar

jaawwnn said:

databank said:

OK, I realize we're aguing on semantics.

OK, if we accept that "Prince" was a character distinct from "Prince Rogers Nelson" the person and the artist, then I'm with you nod

Yah, pretty much. And its all in good fun.

yes

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Reply #44 posted 05/01/19 3:14pm

databank

avatar

WhisperingDandelions said:

I'm sure by June 30, 1998, two-years freed from his WB contract, active CEO of NPG records, releasing a record put out solely by NPG records, in complete control of his career if Prince really wanted New Power Soul to be labeled and considered a "Prince" album, he probably would have labeled and released it as a Prince album.

.

I feel like all this fan mental resorting "oh The Time records are Prince albums, Madhouse wasn't real" etc. is fun, great, I do it myself, believe me, I keep everything he had so much as a sneeze in sorted in my Prince folder, re-ID3 tagged as "Prince" music so even Taja Seville tracks come up under his name, but in terms of "official discographies" we should probably be respectful and sort them like he sorted them and label them as he labeled them.

[Edited 5/1/19 15:04pm]

Just because I have a major crush on Taja, I have to say it: It's Taja SevElle.

But yes

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Reply #45 posted 05/02/19 7:03am

lurker316

avatar

WhisperingDandelions said:

I'm sure by June 30, 1998, two-years freed from his WB contract, active CEO of NPG records, releasing a record put out solely by NPG records, in complete control of his career if Prince really wanted New Power Soul to be labeled and considered a "Prince" album, he probably would have labeled and released it as a Prince album.

.

That is a very good point. I'm sure he consciously and purposefully decided to release it as an NPG album rather than a Prince album.

.

However, as we all now, Prince was notoriously fickle and caprious. After NPS was released Prince marketed it as a Prince album... which suggests (it doesn't prove, but merely hints) that maybe Prince regretted releasing it as an NPG album.

.

Truthfully, I don't know and don't care. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to this. We are trying to put something into a box, but nothing everything fits into a box. It's just fun to speculate and argue.

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Reply #46 posted 05/02/19 7:22am

McD

avatar

lurker316 said:



WhisperingDandelions said:


I'm sure by June 30, 1998, two-years freed from his WB contract, active CEO of NPG records, releasing a record put out solely by NPG records, in complete control of his career if Prince really wanted New Power Soul to be labeled and considered a "Prince" album, he probably would have labeled and released it as a Prince album.




.


That is a very good point. I'm sure he consciously and purposefully decided to release it as an NPG album rather than a Prince album.


.


However, as we all now, Prince was notoriously fickle and caprious. After NPS was released Prince marketed it as a Prince album... which suggests (it doesn't prove, but merely hints) that maybe Prince regretted releasing it as an NPG album.


.


Truthfully, I don't know and don't care. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to this. We are trying to put something into a box, but nothing everything fits into a box. It's just fun to speculate and argue.




It’s not just after the fact though, when it appears to be a ‘Prince’ album. It was also right from the beginning. Which is why it says it’s a Prince album on the cover. You know, to go with the photograph of Prince alone. The CD itself credits Prince, and just Prince, also. And the liner notes indicate Prince is not in the NPG, but an outside entity a la Diamonds and Pearls, etc.

And of course it shares everything in common with Prince albums, and nothing that distinguishes the associated releases

It’s a Prince album. Slam dunk. As much as that seems to irrationally annoy those who live inside spreadsheets. But I’m sure they can let off some steam by firing off lawyers’ letters to the estate.
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Reply #47 posted 05/02/19 11:25am

databank

avatar

McD said:

lurker316 said:

.

That is a very good point. I'm sure he consciously and purposefully decided to release it as an NPG album rather than a Prince album.

.

However, as we all now, Prince was notoriously fickle and caprious. After NPS was released Prince marketed it as a Prince album... which suggests (it doesn't prove, but merely hints) that maybe Prince regretted releasing it as an NPG album.

.

Truthfully, I don't know and don't care. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to this. We are trying to put something into a box, but nothing everything fits into a box. It's just fun to speculate and argue.

It’s not just after the fact though, when it appears to be a ‘Prince’ album. It was also right from the beginning. Which is why it says it’s a Prince album on the cover. You know, to go with the photograph of Prince alone. The CD itself credits Prince, and just Prince, also. And the liner notes indicate Prince is not in the NPG, but an outside entity a la Diamonds and Pearls, etc. And of course it shares everything in common with Prince albums, and nothing that distinguishes the associated releases It’s a Prince album. Slam dunk. As much as that seems to irrationally annoy those who live inside spreadsheets. But I’m sure they can let off some steam by firing off lawyers’ letters to the estate.

Obviously I have an obession for discographies so it annoys the geek in me. I've pretty much pleaded my case before so not much to add, but...

.

I've just checked on Prince museum (http://princeonlinemuseum.com/timeline/) and what I found is:

On NPGOnlineLtd (2000) the discography puts both NPS and The War in the "related artists" category, no ambiguity here.

On NPGMC 2005-2006 the discography (vault room #2) puts NPS in the NPG category alongside the 2 others (Exodus and Gold Nigga) and when you click on either album, it says "Artist: The New Power Generation", and while The War is in the general singles category, when you click the credit also says "Artist: The New Power Generation". However C-Note (in vault room #3) is in the Prince albums category and the credit when you click says "Prince and The NPG" (despite the then-unreleased album cover later shown only having "The New Power Generation" written on it).

.

So C-Note is more confusing, and it could be added that some songs on TCI and The Slaughterhouse were originally credited to the New Power Generation despite both albums being Prince, but when it comes to NPS all I can say is that twice, once 2 years after its release and once 7 years after its release, Prince ran an official discography on his website and both times he labeled NPS as a NPG album, there was no ambiguity about it.

.

So if Prince said over and over it was a NPG album (whatever it meant to him) and other people say it was Prince, you can choose to say it was Prince, but personally I'm definitely going to respect and follow Prince's "opinion" on that matter.

.

I really don't know what else I could possibly say...

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #48 posted 05/02/19 12:29pm

Kares

avatar

databank said:

McD said:

lurker316 said: It’s not just after the fact though, when it appears to be a ‘Prince’ album. It was also right from the beginning. Which is why it says it’s a Prince album on the cover. You know, to go with the photograph of Prince alone. The CD itself credits Prince, and just Prince, also. And the liner notes indicate Prince is not in the NPG, but an outside entity a la Diamonds and Pearls, etc. And of course it shares everything in common with Prince albums, and nothing that distinguishes the associated releases It’s a Prince album. Slam dunk. As much as that seems to irrationally annoy those who live inside spreadsheets. But I’m sure they can let off some steam by firing off lawyers’ letters to the estate.

Obviously I have an obession for discographies so it annoys the geek in me. I've pretty much pleaded my case before so not much to add, but...

.

I've just checked on Prince museum (http://princeonlinemuseum.com/timeline/) and what I found is:

On NPGOnlineLtd (2000) the discography puts both NPS and The War in the "related artists" category, no ambiguity here.

On NPGMC 2005-2006 the discography (vault room #2) puts NPS in the NPG category alongside the 2 others (Exodus and Gold Nigga) and when you click on either album, it says "Artist: The New Power Generation", and while The War is in the general singles category, when you click the credit also says "Artist: The New Power Generation". However C-Note (in vault room #3) is in the Prince albums category and the credit when you click says "Prince and The NPG" (despite the then-unreleased album cover later shown only having "The New Power Generation" written on it).

.

So C-Note is more confusing, and it could be added that some songs on TCI and The Slaughterhouse were originally credited to the New Power Generation despite both albums being Prince, but when it comes to NPS all I can say is that twice, once 2 years after its release and once 7 years after its release, Prince ran an official discography on his website and both times he labeled NPS as a NPG album, there was no ambiguity about it.

.

So if Prince said over and over it was a NPG album (whatever it meant to him) and other people say it was Prince, you can choose to say it was Prince, but personally I'm definitely going to respect and follow Prince's "opinion" on that matter.

.

I really don't know what else I could possibly say...

.

Newpower Soul is definitely an NPG-album officially and frankly I'm not even sure where does it say 'Prince' on the cover. The symbol-"tattoo" photoshopped on his shoulder? That's not an artist credit. The spine of the CD-cover only says "New Power Generation" too.

.
But for me all NPG-, NPG Orchestra-, The Family-, Prince & The Revolution-, Prince & 3rdEyeGirl-, Madhouse-releases are simply Prince-releases, regardless of what label he chose to put on the cover, frankly I don't care, they are Prince records, period.
.
And someone earlier mentioned that they don't consider 'C-Note' or 'The Undertaker' regular albums either, as they are live. Well that's another thing I personally disagree with and don't really understand it either: for me they are just as valid parts of Prince's core catalog as any other album. For me music is music, regardless of whether it was recorded in a studio or on stage.
.
So yeah, we could debate these kinds of things endlessly and probably would never agree on everything, so maybe I'll just put together my own version of the Prince discography because for me what really matters is for people to see all his different releases in one place, regardless of what the cover says. smile
.
Take '1999' for example. Officially it's just credited to 'Prince'. Yet the '1999 New Master' is credited to 'Prince And The Revolution'. Why? Just a gesture from Prince, I guess.
And while many hit songs came out on records officially credited to 'Prince & The Revolution', the same songs (exactly the same recordings) are featured on compilations credited only to 'Prince' on the front cover. It's all meaningless. It's all him – and I find it absolutely ridiculous how Discogs, for example, breaks his catalog into separate pages.
.
People look for Prince records, and when they see an official list of his albums, they won't know that he's done a whole bunch of other, just as important albums, he just chose not to put his name on them. Even if the so-called "associated artists" releases are there, just in a separate section, people will think "they are just some side-projects, nothing important". That's what bothers me. 'The Family' or the 'Madhouse' or the 'NPG' albums are just as important Prince-records as anything else.

[Edited 5/2/19 12:46pm]

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Reply #49 posted 05/02/19 12:42pm

databank

avatar

Kares said:

databank said:

Obviously I have an obession for discographies so it annoys the geek in me. I've pretty much pleaded my case before so not much to add, but...

.

I've just checked on Prince museum (http://princeonlinemuseum.com/timeline/) and what I found is:

On NPGOnlineLtd (2000) the discography puts both NPS and The War in the "related artists" category, no ambiguity here.

On NPGMC 2005-2006 the discography (vault room #2) puts NPS in the NPG category alongside the 2 others (Exodus and Gold Nigga) and when you click on either album, it says "Artist: The New Power Generation", and while The War is in the general singles category, when you click the credit also says "Artist: The New Power Generation". However C-Note (in vault room #3) is in the Prince albums category and the credit when you click says "Prince and The NPG" (despite the then-unreleased album cover later shown only having "The New Power Generation" written on it).

.

So C-Note is more confusing, and it could be added that some songs on TCI and The Slaughterhouse were originally credited to the New Power Generation despite both albums being Prince, but when it comes to NPS all I can say is that twice, once 2 years after its release and once 7 years after its release, Prince ran an official discography on his website and both times he labeled NPS as a NPG album, there was no ambiguity about it.

.

So if Prince said over and over it was a NPG album (whatever it meant to him) and other people say it was Prince, you can choose to say it was Prince, but personally I'm definitely going to respect and follow Prince's "opinion" on that matter.

.

I really don't know what else I could possibly say...

.

Newpower Soul is definitely an NPG-album officially and frankly I'm not even sure where does it say 'Prince' on the cover. The symbol-"tattoo" photoshopped on his shoulder? That's not an artist credit. The spine of the CD-cover only says "New Power Generation" too.

.
But for me all NPG-, NPG Orchestra-, The Family-, Prince & The Revolution-, Prince & 3rdEyeGirl-, Madhouse-releases are simply Prince-releases, regardless of what label he chose to put on the cover, frankly I don't care, they are Prince records, period.
.
And someone earlier mentioned that they don't consider 'C-Note' or 'The Undertaker' regular albums either, as they are live. Well that's another thing I personally disagree with and don't really understand it either: for me they are just as valid parts of Prince's core catalog as any other album. For me music is music, regardless of whether it was recorded in a studio or on stage.
.

That, + The Undertaker isn't even live at all, it's a studio recording, recorded in one take OK but since when does a song recorded in one take become a live track?

And anyway the released (video) version isn't even pure "live in the studio" since it has edits and overdubs.

.
So yeah, we could debate these kinds of things endlessly and probably would never agree on everything, so maybe I'll just put together my own version of the Prince discography because for me what really matters is for people to see all his different releases in one place, regardless of what the cover says.

.

That's kind of what I did with my site in the end. I don't discriminate.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #50 posted 05/02/19 12:44pm

databank

avatar

^Speaking of C-Note and The Undertaker, over the years I've read people write all sorts of weird objections on the Org: "Such album is not a real album and does not count because it was only released digitally", "Such album is not a real album and does not count because it is an instrumental album"... eek falloff

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #51 posted 05/02/19 12:45pm

databank

avatar

^ "C-Note is an EP because it's too short to be an album" (despite being longer than Dirty Mind) lol lol lol

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Reply #52 posted 05/02/19 12:52pm

Kares

avatar

databank said:

^Speaking of C-Note and The Undertaker, over the years I've read people write all sorts of weird objections on the Org: "Such album is not a real album and does not count because it was only released digitally", "Such album is not a real album and does not count because it is an instrumental album"... eek falloff

.
Right, for some people the definition of music is "singing accompanied by instruments", LOL...

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

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Reply #53 posted 05/02/19 1:07pm

Kares

avatar

databank said:

Kares said:

.

Newpower Soul is definitely an NPG-album officially and frankly I'm not even sure where does it say 'Prince' on the cover. The symbol-"tattoo" photoshopped on his shoulder? That's not an artist credit. The spine of the CD-cover only says "New Power Generation" too.

.
But for me all NPG-, NPG Orchestra-, The Family-, Prince & The Revolution-, Prince & 3rdEyeGirl-, Madhouse-releases are simply Prince-releases, regardless of what label he chose to put on the cover, frankly I don't care, they are Prince records, period.
.
And someone earlier mentioned that they don't consider 'C-Note' or 'The Undertaker' regular albums either, as they are live. Well that's another thing I personally disagree with and don't really understand it either: for me they are just as valid parts of Prince's core catalog as any other album. For me music is music, regardless of whether it was recorded in a studio or on stage.
.

That, + The Undertaker isn't even live at all, it's a studio recording, recorded in one take OK but since when does a song recorded in one take become a live track?

And anyway the released (video) version isn't even pure "live in the studio" since it has edits and overdubs.

.
So yeah, we could debate these kinds of things endlessly and probably would never agree on everything, so maybe I'll just put together my own version of the Prince discography because for me what really matters is for people to see all his different releases in one place, regardless of what the cover says.

.

That's kind of what I did with my site in the end. I don't discriminate.

.
Yes of course you're right, The Undertaker was recorded in a studio live – but then again, a LOT of Prince's studio recordings were actually taped live in the studio, with the band playing together.
Shall we take the 'Purple Rain' single out of Prince's core catalog because it was recorded live on stage? (Except for the strings.) smile
.
I never understood this fetishist approach to studio albums, as if live albums would be worth less. (OK, for many performers that is actually the case as they can't really play live... smile ) But seriously: a lot of my favourite studio albums were recorded live in the studio in 1-2 takes and I also love music recorded live on stage, whether it's an opera or jazz or anything. So I never separate 'live' albums from studio ones within an artist's discography.

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

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Reply #54 posted 05/02/19 1:09pm

McD

avatar

Kares said:



databank said:




McD said:


lurker316 said: It’s not just after the fact though, when it appears to be a ‘Prince’ album. It was also right from the beginning. Which is why it says it’s a Prince album on the cover. You know, to go with the photograph of Prince alone. The CD itself credits Prince, and just Prince, also. And the liner notes indicate Prince is not in the NPG, but an outside entity a la Diamonds and Pearls, etc. And of course it shares everything in common with Prince albums, and nothing that distinguishes the associated releases It’s a Prince album. Slam dunk. As much as that seems to irrationally annoy those who live inside spreadsheets. But I’m sure they can let off some steam by firing off lawyers’ letters to the estate.

Obviously I have an obession for discographies so it annoys the geek in me. I've pretty much pleaded my case before so not much to add, but...


.


I've just checked on Prince museum (http://princeonlinemuseum.com/timeline/) and what I found is:


On NPGOnlineLtd (2000) the discography puts both NPS and The War in the "related artists" category, no ambiguity here.


On NPGMC 2005-2006 the discography (vault room #2) puts NPS in the NPG category alongside the 2 others (Exodus and Gold Nigga) and when you click on either album, it says "Artist: The New Power Generation", and while The War is in the general singles category, when you click the credit also says "Artist: The New Power Generation". However C-Note (in vault room #3) is in the Prince albums category and the credit when you click says "Prince and The NPG" (despite the then-unreleased album cover later shown only having "The New Power Generation" written on it).


.


So C-Note is more confusing, and it could be added that some songs on TCI and The Slaughterhouse were originally credited to the New Power Generation despite both albums being Prince, but when it comes to NPS all I can say is that twice, once 2 years after its release and once 7 years after its release, Prince ran an official discography on his website and both times he labeled NPS as a NPG album, there was no ambiguity about it.


.


So if Prince said over and over it was a NPG album (whatever it meant to him) and other people say it was Prince, you can choose to say it was Prince, but personally I'm definitely going to respect and follow Prince's "opinion" on that matter.


.


I really don't know what else I could possibly say...



.


Newpower Soul is definitely an NPG-album officially and frankly I'm not even sure where does it say 'Prince' on the cover. The symbol-"tattoo" photoshopped on his shoulder? That's not an artist credit. The spine of the CD-cover only says "New Power Generation" too.



Classic.

It doesn’t say Prince on the cover because the credit was “photoshopped”.

I hate to break it to ya, but the Newpower Generation credit on the cover was photoshopped too. Artist credits on albums are all bleedin’ photoshopped, including just about every Prince album in existence. (Ironically, the possible exception being the Prince and the Revolution credit, yes, both of them, on the original 1999 cover you mention.)

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Reply #55 posted 05/02/19 1:13pm

Kares

avatar

McD said:

Kares said:

.

Newpower Soul is definitely an NPG-album officially and frankly I'm not even sure where does it say 'Prince' on the cover. The symbol-"tattoo" photoshopped on his shoulder? That's not an artist credit. The spine of the CD-cover only says "New Power Generation" too.

Classic. It doesn’t say Prince on the cover because the credit was “photoshopped”. I hate to break it to ya, but the Newpower Generation credit on the cover was photoshopped too. Artist credits on albums are all bleedin’ photoshopped, including just about every Prince album in existence. (Ironically, the possible exception being the Prince and the Revolution credit, yes, both of them, on the original 1999 cover you mention.)

.

And where have I said that it's officially an NPG-album BECAUSE the symbol is photoshopped?...
The spine of the cover says "New Power Generation" only, no "Prince", but keep arguing, I don't care.

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

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Reply #56 posted 05/03/19 3:37am

Kares

avatar

To me this is Prince's core album catalog.
.
Yes, it's subjective; yes, it can be argued that there are inconsistencies in excluding 'I Am' or some others, while including the Ingrid Chavez album, for example, but I try to draw the line between collaborations where Prince was the main influencer/producer/decision maker behind an album and where he simply contributed songs.
.
I've excluded compilations (but included 1-800-New-Funk as that is mainly new material) and live albums (but included C-Note as it's new material).
.
So yeah, I'm sure a lot of you will disagree with me over several inclusions or exclusions, that's fine, we can see differently, this is my version of the core list and these albums are all sorted under 'Prince' as the main artist in my iTunes library and I view them as such, regardless of what's on the cover (and that doesn't mean that I would disrespect Sheila or Mavis or Chaka etc as great artists on their own right too.)
.

Prince – For You
Prince – Prince
Prince – Dirty Mind
The Time – The Time
Prince – Controversy
Vanity 6 – Vanity 6
The Time – What Time Is It?
Prince – 1999
Sheila E. – The Glamorous Life
Prince And The Revolution – Purple Rain
The Time – Ice Cream Castle
Apollonia 6 – Apollonia 6
Prince And The Revolution – Around The World In A Day

The Family – The Family
Sheila E. – Romance 1600
Prince And The Revolution – Parade
Jill Jones – Jill Jones
Madhouse – 8
Sheila E. – Sheila E
Prince – Sign O’ The Times
Madhouse – 16
Prince – Black Album
Prince – Lovesexy
Mavis Staples – Time Waits For No One
Prince – Batman
The Time – Pandemonium
Prince – Graffiti Bridge
Eric Leeds – Times Squared
Prince & The NPG – Diamonds And Pearls
Ingrid Chavez – May 19, 1992
Carmen Electra – Carmen Electra
Prince & The NPG – prince
prince – The Undertaker
Mavis Staples – The Voice
N.P.G. – Goldnigga
prince – 1-800-New-Funk
Prince – Come
N.P.G. – Exodus
prince – The Gold Experience
Mayte – Child Of The Sun
prince – Chaos And Disorder
prince – Emancipation
prince – The Truth
The NPG Orchestra – Kamasutra
prince – Crystal Ball
N.P.G. – Newpower Soul
Chaka Khan – Come 2 My House
Prince – The Vault… Old Friends 4 Sale
prince – Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic
Prince – One Nite Alone…
Prince – The Rainbow Children
Prince – Xpectation
Prince – C-Note
Prince – N.E.W.S.
Prince – The Chocolate Invasion
Prince – The Slaughterhouse
Prince – Musicology
Prince – 3121
Tamar – Milk & Honey
Prince – Planet Earth
Prince – LotusFlower
Prince – MPLSound
Bria Valente – Elixer
Prince – 20Ten
Andy Allo & Prince – Oui Can Luv
Andy Allo – Superconductor
Prince – Art Official Age
Prince & 3rdEyeGirl – PlectrumElectrum
Judith Hill – Back In Time
Prince – Hit’n’Run, Phase One
Prince – Hit’n’Run, Phase Two

.

[Edited 5/4/19 2:02am]

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Reply #57 posted 05/03/19 4:09am

McD

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No place for Times Squared on there? (Disagreements on approaches aside, it seems like an automatic qualification for your list).
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Reply #58 posted 05/03/19 4:12am

Kares

avatar

McD said:

No place for Times Squared on there? (Disagreements on approaches aside, it seems like an automatic qualification for your list).

.
Oops, I forgot about that. You're right, it belongs on this list.

[Edited 5/3/19 4:19am]

Friends don't let friends clap on 1 and 3.

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Reply #59 posted 05/03/19 5:42am

databank

avatar

Kares said:

McD said:

No place for Times Squared on there? (Disagreements on approaches aside, it seems like an automatic qualification for your list).

.
Oops, I forgot about that. You're right, it belongs on this list.

[Edited 5/3/19 4:19am]

Your list is pretty much the same as mine except you put your limit at 50% and did not include video albums except for Undertaker.

Milk and Honey can't be included though because it is remains unreleased.

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