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Thread started 04/01/19 10:48pm

thebanishedone

Habibi prince vault credits incorrect?

Prince vault says that Habibi was recorded in 1998 and that its Kirk Johnson on drums?

but Prince didnt use whammy bar in 1998 and in 1998 he was at his all time low as a guitar player.

also those drums cant be Kirk.

WHAT DO U GUYS THINK?

[Edited 4/1/19 22:49pm]

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Reply #1 posted 04/01/19 10:58pm

luv4u

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Reply #2 posted 04/01/19 11:35pm

thebanishedone

luv4u said:

http://princevault.com/in...tle=Habibi

there is no way thats Kirk on drums,what you posted proves nothing im sorry

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Reply #3 posted 04/01/19 11:44pm

JorisE73

thebanishedone said:

Prince vault says that Habibi was recorded in 1998 and that its Kirk Johnson on drums?

but Prince didnt use whammy bar in 1998 and in 1998 he was at his all time low as a guitar player.

also those drums cant be Kirk.

WHAT DO U GUYS THINK?

[Edited 4/1/19 22:49pm]


Wasn't this his Machine Gun cover?
And I guess he played it on his purple symbol guitar which was called Habibi and had a whammy bar.
I think it was John Blackwell on drums tho.

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Reply #4 posted 04/02/19 12:34am

databank

avatar

thebanishedone said:

Prince vault says that Habibi was recorded in 1998 and that its Kirk Johnson on drums?

but Prince didnt use whammy bar in 1998 and in 1998 he was at his all time low as a guitar player.

also those drums cant be Kirk.

WHAT DO U GUYS THINK?

[Edited 4/1/19 22:49pm]

Princevault do not claim that Kirk is on drums for sure, it says "assumed".

What their source is for the recording date and credits is unknown to me, but it's likely there is a reasoning behind it. They have been known to make errors though, it's unavoidable on a project like this.

.

But if you have serious, backed-up reasons to challenge the information, you should write to Princevault, they have changed info based on solid evidence sent by fans before, and if they aren't convinced by your arguments they may tell you what their own reasoning was based on.

.

So far however, I have to say I do not find any of your arguments or statements convincing, but you haven't bothered to explain your reasoning or provide evidence so I can't tell whether I should believe you or not.

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Reply #5 posted 04/02/19 12:41am

databank

avatar

thebanishedone said:

luv4u said:

http://princevault.com/in...tle=Habibi

there is no way thats Kirk on drums,what you posted proves nothing im sorry

luv4u merely posted the link so people could check the page you were talking about.

Your argument was that the Pvault entry is wrong.

luv4u couldn't possibly use the Pvault entry itself as an argument to support the theory that says that... the Pvault entry is correct.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home

I apologize for every time I offended someone when debates got "heated". Love y'all yes
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Reply #6 posted 04/02/19 11:06am

coldasice

JorisE73 said:



thebanishedone said:


Prince vault says that Habibi was recorded in 1998 and that its Kirk Johnson on drums?


but Prince didnt use whammy bar in 1998 and in 1998 he was at his all time low as a guitar player.


also those drums cant be Kirk.


WHAT DO U GUYS THINK?


[Edited 4/1/19 22:49pm]




Wasn't this his Machine Gun cover?
And I guess he played it on his purple symbol guitar which was called Habibi and had a whammy bar.
I think it was John Blackwell on drums tho.


I’m not sure the Purple Habibi guitar was around in 98, if the WhitemSymbol guitar was sprayed purple maybe. Definitely no Floyd Rose or “Whammy” on it yet though.
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Reply #7 posted 04/02/19 11:11pm

thebanishedone

databank said:

thebanishedone said:

Prince vault says that Habibi was recorded in 1998 and that its Kirk Johnson on drums?

but Prince didnt use whammy bar in 1998 and in 1998 he was at his all time low as a guitar player.

also those drums cant be Kirk.

WHAT DO U GUYS THINK?

[Edited 4/1/19 22:49pm]

Princevault do not claim that Kirk is on drums for sure, it says "assumed".

What their source is for the recording date and credits is unknown to me, but it's likely there is a reasoning behind it. They have been known to make errors though, it's unavoidable on a project like this.

.

But if you have serious, backed-up reasons to challenge the information, you should write to Princevault, they have changed info based on solid evidence sent by fans before, and if they aren't convinced by your arguments they may tell you what their own reasoning was based on.

.

So far however, I have to say I do not find any of your arguments or statements convincing, but you haven't bothered to explain your reasoning or provide evidence so I can't tell whether I should believe you or not.

OK so WITH A FEW EXCEPTIONS like Private Joy(Dear Micolangelo ) guitar solo,solo on 777 9311 and some guitar parts on 1999 Prince never used whammy bar up until year 2000.

in 2000 we have witnesses first symbol guitar with a whammy bar.

second drum breaks played on Habibi dont soundf at all like Kirk.drumming on Habibi is way too busy to be Kirk.

my guess is the version of Habibi we heard is from mid up to late 2000

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Reply #8 posted 04/03/19 12:02am

Boydie

I haven’t heard the track you are talking about - and I am sure you have considered this so apologies if it is obvious - but is it definitely a “whammy bar” and not the Digitech Whammy Pedal that he often used?
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Reply #9 posted 04/03/19 1:43am

databank

avatar

thebanishedone said:

databank said:

Princevault do not claim that Kirk is on drums for sure, it says "assumed".

What their source is for the recording date and credits is unknown to me, but it's likely there is a reasoning behind it. They have been known to make errors though, it's unavoidable on a project like this.

.

But if you have serious, backed-up reasons to challenge the information, you should write to Princevault, they have changed info based on solid evidence sent by fans before, and if they aren't convinced by your arguments they may tell you what their own reasoning was based on.

.

So far however, I have to say I do not find any of your arguments or statements convincing, but you haven't bothered to explain your reasoning or provide evidence so I can't tell whether I should believe you or not.

OK so WITH A FEW EXCEPTIONS like Private Joy(Dear Micolangelo ) guitar solo,solo on 777 9311 and some guitar parts on 1999 Prince never used whammy bar up until year 2000.

in 2000 we have witnesses first symbol guitar with a whammy bar.

second drum breaks played on Habibi dont soundf at all like Kirk.drumming on Habibi is way too busy to be Kirk.

my guess is the version of Habibi we heard is from mid up to late 2000

OK, thx.

.

The explainaitions you provide about the whammy bar seem convincing for the non guitar player I am. Hard to say however because if Prince was aware of the techniwue and had used it earlier, it was part of his skills set so to say, and he may have decided to pull it off the closet for a specific track that had specific needs. Could also be what Boydie says above. I'm playing devil's advocate here, you seem to have a reasonably solid argument here.

.

As for the drumming IDK, just because it does not feel like Kirk's usual playing, that we are mostly familiar with in the context of songs that are mostly R&B or pop, it's very possible that he played "busy" as you say here because it was a hard rock/blues track and he wanted to do that specifically. Kirk plays the drums on Eyemagettin' and I'd say it's pretty busy there, too. More than rejecting Kirk (a musician can always do something that they don't usually do for the needs of a specific track), it'd be more interesting to see if a drums specialist can recognize some of John's specific playing patterns.

.

So IDK, I honestly always thought that Habibi was from 2000 or 2001 and that it was John on the drums until you brought the Pvault page up, so I'd tend to agree with you. Now let's examine where Pvault's reasoning come from:

.

I've realized since the other day that the basis for Pvault's reasoning is in fact given by them as follow: "On 14 November 1998, Love4OneAnother.com noted that Prince wanted to get in touch with the Hendrix family (who controls the estate) to donate a version of Machine Gun "free of charge, to use at their discretion", and Habibi is likely to be an edited version of that track. Although recorded during a time when Prince was using the name SymbolSmallerBlue.png, the track was released using the name Prince, so it is listed as such here."

.

It's a very fragile argument because Habibi coulda been rerecorded in rehearsal at any stage, and just because Prince had recorded a version in 98 (if he really did, which we're not even certain of) doesn't mean it's that version.

And if it's really from 1998, are we certain that it's a band effort and not just a solo Prince recording (that sound unlikely because he can be heard giving instructions, but he's proven capable of emulating a whole band and known to give instructions to himself before)?

.

So yeah, IDK. Pvault seem to have taken a blind guess here and I'd argue that yours is as good as theirs.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home

I apologize for every time I offended someone when debates got "heated". Love y'all yes
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Reply #10 posted 04/03/19 11:30am

thebanishedone

databank said:

thebanishedone said:

OK so WITH A FEW EXCEPTIONS like Private Joy(Dear Micolangelo ) guitar solo,solo on 777 9311 and some guitar parts on 1999 Prince never used whammy bar up until year 2000.

in 2000 we have witnesses first symbol guitar with a whammy bar.

second drum breaks played on Habibi dont soundf at all like Kirk.drumming on Habibi is way too busy to be Kirk.

my guess is the version of Habibi we heard is from mid up to late 2000

OK, thx.

.

The explainaitions you provide about the whammy bar seem convincing for the non guitar player I am. Hard to say however because if Prince was aware of the techniwue and had used it earlier, it was part of his skills set so to say, and he may have decided to pull it off the closet for a specific track that had specific needs. Could also be what Boydie says above. I'm playing devil's advocate here, you seem to have a reasonably solid argument here.

.

As for the drumming IDK, just because it does not feel like Kirk's usual playing, that we are mostly familiar with in the context of songs that are mostly R&B or pop, it's very possible that he played "busy" as you say here because it was a hard rock/blues track and he wanted to do that specifically. Kirk plays the drums on Eyemagettin' and I'd say it's pretty busy there, too. More than rejecting Kirk (a musician can always do something that they don't usually do for the needs of a specific track), it'd be more interesting to see if a drums specialist can recognize some of John's specific playing patterns.

.

So IDK, I honestly always thought that Habibi was from 2000 or 2001 and that it was John on the drums until you brought the Pvault page up, so I'd tend to agree with you. Now let's examine where Pvault's reasoning come from:

.

I've realized since the other day that the basis for Pvault's reasoning is in fact given by them as follow: "On 14 November 1998, Love4OneAnother.com noted that Prince wanted to get in touch with the Hendrix family (who controls the estate) to donate a version of Machine Gun "free of charge, to use at their discretion", and Habibi is likely to be an edited version of that track. Although recorded during a time when Prince was using the name SymbolSmallerBlue.png, the track was released using the name Prince, so it is listed as such here."

.

It's a very fragile argument because Habibi coulda been rerecorded in rehearsal at any stage, and just because Prince had recorded a version in 98 (if he really did, which we're not even certain of) doesn't mean it's that version.

And if it's really from 1998, are we certain that it's a band effort and not just a solo Prince recording (that sound unlikely because he can be heard giving instructions, but he's proven capable of emulating a whole band and known to give instructions to himself before)?

.

So yeah, IDK. Pvault seem to have taken a blind guess here and I'd argue that yours is as good as theirs.

def its not digitech whammy effect,it would sopund different. playing with whammy bar also requieres practice.prince needed to practise for some time to be convincing with whammy bar.Im not downplaying Kirk.i always did find Kirk to b solid in the pocket drummer,much better than orgers give him crediut,but on Habibi that is not Kirk

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Reply #11 posted 04/06/19 10:49pm

williamb610

What is this "Prince at a low on guitar" shit?!

Prince may have put out some clunkers over the last 20 years, but are you assuming that his skills fell off during the last 20 years? Prince has always known how to rip on guitar, even if he didn't put the best solos on his latter career albums.

So what does "low on guitar" mean?

It's definitely not that he didn't know what to do on studio guitar songs. I assume, as always, he was just trying to sound different on each song, which is difficult to sound different and good, over a damn near 40 year career!

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Reply #12 posted 04/07/19 6:36am

Giovanni777

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Well, The Vault isn't always correct. I've noticed places where they simply mirror the credits of the album, where we know Prince's credits were usually vauge, and he gave credit to others where he played the part himself.

"He's a musician's musician..."
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Reply #13 posted 04/07/19 6:40am

Giovanni777

avatar

williamb610 said:

What is this "Prince at a low on guitar" shit?!

Prince may have put out some clunkers over the last 20 years, but are you assuming that his skills fell off during the last 20 years? Prince has always known how to rip on guitar, even if he didn't put the best solos on his latter career albums.

So what does "low on guitar" mean?

It's definitely not that he didn't know what to do on studio guitar songs. I assume, as always, he was just trying to sound different on each song, which is difficult to sound different and good, over a damn near 40 year career!

.

Although I agree with your post, there's one little problem I have with it... He absolutely DID put some of his most ripping guitar solos on a latter album: Lotusflow3r. I think that's the most guitar-heavy album in his career.

"He's a musician's musician..."
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Reply #14 posted 04/08/19 12:12am

thebanishedone

williamb610 said:

What is this "Prince at a low on guitar" shit?!

Prince may have put out some clunkers over the last 20 years, but are you assuming that his skills fell off during the last 20 years? Prince has always known how to rip on guitar, even if he didn't put the best solos on his latter career albums.

So what does "low on guitar" mean?

It's definitely not that he didn't know what to do on studio guitar songs. I assume, as always, he was just trying to sound different on each song, which is difficult to sound different and good, over a damn near 40 year career!

excuse me but did u even read my post.if not i will repeat Prince was always great on guitar except 1998 up to 2000 .those two years it seem like he didnt practice guitar.but he recovered starting with hitnrun tour 2001.

and yers after that he was at his best

but in 1998 -2000

everything he played on guitar was weak compared to his standards

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