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Reply #60 posted 03/02/19 7:01pm

sulls

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OldFriends4Sale said:



sulls said:


Certainly, the original Extralovable would not go over in these times. That's why I fear we'll never get to hear in pristine quality cuz the estate sho' ain't gonna release THAT.




Well to equal it out 'Purple Music' includes a scene where a man he has to bathe wants more



It's time for your morning bath, sir
What would you like to bathe in this morning?
With all due respect sir, I think that...
I think that it might...
Oh, oh no
I don't want to play anymore
I don't want to play anymore



That’s OUR Prince!
lol
"I like to watch."
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Reply #61 posted 03/02/19 7:10pm

sulls

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SoulAlive said:



sulls said:


Certainly, the original Extralovable would not go over in these times. That's why I fear we'll never get to hear in pristine quality cuz the estate sho' ain't gonna release THAT.




if it's not included on the 1999 Deluxe Edition,I'm gonna be pissed mad




Me too. If not, if it would leak, that might be the only way...
"I like to watch."
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Reply #62 posted 03/03/19 10:05pm

206Michelle

No. He mentored, worked with, and befriended dozens of women. Sinead O’Connor aside, women like Wendy Melvoin, Lisa Coleman, Janelle Monae, Donna Grantis, Susan Rogers’s, Ida Nielsen, Hannah Welton, Tamron Hall, Kim Berry, Salma Hayek, Damaris Lewis...they all speak well of him. No allegations of sexual conduct.
Live 4 Love ~ Love is God, God is love, Girls and boys love God above
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Reply #63 posted 03/04/19 12:35am

robertgeorge

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Genesia said:

OperatingThetan said:

The microphone gun was artistic symbolism - words of love and power, creativity and inspiration as a weapon.

Prince was incorporating (then) current trends and sounds into his music and had massive chart success as a result.


I got a Tec-9 too and it's called my brain

I like this discussion, and the interpretation (and Days of Wild quote of course!), I always thought there was also a self-destructive and inverted symbolism with the gun. He was singing with a loaded gun to his mouth (no not saying he was suicidal at all, but does tie in with the hangman and noose imagery in Purple Rain and Grafitti Bridge), I kind of saw it as externalising inner conflict. However, I think the lyrical and musical weaponry image makes a lot of sense with both together working on Prince's Gemini duality.

I feel that Purple Rain depicts the abuse of woman, as a cycle of abuse. Something Prince regrets and regrets when he does it. His controlling of Wendy and Lisa (not playing "there" songs in the fictional film") and the controlling and abuse (not helping her career and beating her and being possessive of her like she is his) is shown in a negative light. It shows him as insecure and frightened. His crowning achievement in the film is playing purple rain. Prince beating Apollonia is the scared powerless Prince on the ground crying that can't stop his father beating (potentially killing or nearly killing his mother). Apollonia leaves him. I get the idea her coming back at the end would be the end of the abuse, but abuse is not that tidy (and you could argue that Apollonia is coming back to being beaten again if Prince does not seek help). Maybe the father shooting himself is the rock bottom that will stop both men doing this. I can't remember any abuse in Graffiti Bridge the next movie with 'the Kid' So essentially abuse is not glorified it is but shows the cyclical and tormented nature of the abusers "never get married" Francis L.

Agree Prince shows himself under the control of woman, or putting on his game face, something in the water, got a broken heart again more often than not.

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Reply #64 posted 03/04/19 7:12am

Krystalkisses

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I just wanted to say Prince's "worship" for women always bothered me.
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Reply #65 posted 03/04/19 8:52am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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There could be something to say, though, about his ease at working with women vs men

Sometimes that is sign of thoughts of gender imbalance

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
https://prince.org/msg/7/464433 9.24.2020
if you ever try the lotus position
Try it while you're being strangled
Do U understand what I'm saying?
#IDEFINEME
It’s unloving and selfish to be easily offended
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Reply #66 posted 03/04/19 10:39am

PennyPurple

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OldFriends4Sale said:

There could be something to say, though, about his ease at working with women vs men

Sometimes that is sign of thoughts of gender imbalance

He could reimage the women, give them make overs, dress them, style them up.

Look how sexy he made Sheila, with the 1 sleeve, 1 pantleg outfits.

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Reply #67 posted 03/04/19 11:07am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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moderator

PennyPurple said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

There could be something to say, though, about his ease at working with women vs men

Sometimes that is sign of thoughts of gender imbalance

He could reimage the women, give them make overs, dress them, style them up.

Look how sexy he made Sheila, with the 1 sleeve, 1 pantleg outfits.

Yes. Women can be perceived as more 'manageable' vs men.

I still remember Patti LaBelle as the one that designed that 1 legged piece for Sheila E though

I mean Prince dressed the men over too, just as much, had them all wearing heavier makeup etc

So in that sense he was kinda equal with Male and Female.
But there are men who would rather hire women over men because, women 'easily adjust' over men.

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
https://prince.org/msg/7/464433 9.24.2020
if you ever try the lotus position
Try it while you're being strangled
Do U understand what I'm saying?
#IDEFINEME
It’s unloving and selfish to be easily offended
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Reply #68 posted 03/04/19 11:42am

Krystalkisses

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OldFriends4Sale said:


There could be something to say, though, about his ease at working with women vs men



Sometimes that is sign of thoughts of gender imbalance



That is an interesting point. But just speaking as a woman it irked me how he seemed to place women in such an exalted position that we don't deserve. Both men and women have their dark side and sometimes I think Prince had an idealized view of how they are. Some of the most vicious people ( psychologically ) have been women and the most fair and consistent have been men. Just been my experience. I'm sure it was a totally different experience dealing with women for Prince . Women loved him and he seemed to really understand them.
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Reply #69 posted 03/04/19 12:03pm

MoBettaBliss

no

you know, lust is ok

and expressing it in art is ok too

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Reply #70 posted 03/04/19 12:33pm

ludwig

FullLipsDotNose said:

"A girl with guitar is twelve times better than another crazy band of boys

Tryna be a star in a misogynistic wall of noise"

"I would rape you if I must"

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Reply #71 posted 03/04/19 12:49pm

pinkcashmere23

Krystalkisses said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

There could be something to say, though, about his ease at working with women vs men

Sometimes that is sign of thoughts of gender imbalance

That is an interesting point. But just speaking as a woman it irked me how he seemed to place women in such an exalted position that we don't deserve. Both men and women have their dark side and sometimes I think Prince had an idealized view of how they are. Some of the most vicious people ( psychologically ) have been women and the most fair and consistent have been men. Just been my experience. I'm sure it was a totally different experience dealing with women for Prince . Women loved him and he seemed to really understand them.

That reminds me of what he said during the show at Ghent in 2011 about how any time any thing went wrong in his life a man did it. He went on to give a few examples of how he had been wronged by men. I found that interesting.

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Reply #72 posted 03/04/19 1:29pm

sro100

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Why? Why???!

God I can't take all this WOKE bullshit!!

I GUARANTEE if we looked into YOUR life we'd find plenty to condemn you about in this hypersensitive bullshit environment.

Plus let's analyze EVERY movie and song that doesn't fit into today's environment and we'd be left with....nothing but boring boring things.

As a matter of fact cry we'd condemn every living being if we looked into every moment of a person's existence.

lockdance

[Edited 3/4/19 13:33pm]

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Reply #73 posted 03/04/19 2:15pm

Krystalkisses

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pinkcashmere23 said:



Krystalkisses said:


OldFriends4Sale said:


There could be something to say, though, about his ease at working with women vs men



Sometimes that is sign of thoughts of gender imbalance



That is an interesting point. But just speaking as a woman it irked me how he seemed to place women in such an exalted position that we don't deserve. Both men and women have their dark side and sometimes I think Prince had an idealized view of how they are. Some of the most vicious people ( psychologically ) have been women and the most fair and consistent have been men. Just been my experience. I'm sure it was a totally different experience dealing with women for Prince . Women loved him and he seemed to really understand them.

That reminds me of what he said during the show at Ghent in 2011 about how any time any thing went wrong in his life a man did it. He went on to give a few examples of how he had been wronged by men. I found that interesting.



It is interesting that he would share that.
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Reply #74 posted 03/04/19 2:37pm

PURPLEIZED3121

sro100 said:

Why? Why???!



God I can't take all this WOKE bullshit!!



I GUARANTEE if we looked into YOUR life we'd find plenty to condemn you about in this hypersensitive bullshit environment.



Plus let's analyze EVERY movie and song that doesn't fit into today's environment and we'd be left with....nothing but boring boring things.



As a matter of fact cry we'd condemn every living being if we looked into every moment of a person's existence.



lockdance


[Edited 3/4/19 13:33pm]


Thank you for that pointless contribution!
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Reply #75 posted 03/04/19 2:43pm

PURPLEIZED3121

luvsexy4all said:

now u will seehow important it is to see Prince as a work-in-progress....look how he matured spiritually and sexually thru his life (as we know it)


A very good point. Your point is very valid through the lense of his art & likewise very valid to the point of my original thread. Being honest i think its well evidenced beyong all reasonable doubt that in real life he was a player to the end!...with a trail of broken hearts left behind.
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Reply #76 posted 03/04/19 2:48pm

PURPLEIZED3121

Thank you to all who contributed. Looking at some of the replies & of far morecrelevance talking to younger people I know i think there's a clear dividing line. Some / most older fans = generally apologists for a earlier Prince behaviours/expressions vs Young people in general who wince/cringe at the videos/lyrics etc.
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Reply #77 posted 03/04/19 2:49pm

benni

TrivialPursuit said:

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

We all know that P worshipped women & gave them endless career opportunities. Outside of the sphere of music he opened doors for photographers, creatives, designers, P..Park staff & many others. In this respect the man was incredible & his legacy on this front is firmly in tact & very much in keeping on where we are now.

That said when I now look at the songs/images/videos from day 1 through to say 2002 in particular some of it makes me cringe! The list is endless from Vanity 6, treatment of Apollonia in P. Rain, the Sexy MF video, raping Lady Cab driver [!] & many, many others. The message in some cases is filled with his own purple logic...Sexy MF shows a woman being subservient BUT what she does with her mind is what makes her a Sexy MF !! I could write for pages on this but y'all get the gist!

I would love your honest perspectives on this especially from the ladies on here. Do you feel uncomfortable OR is it just a case of context of the time?

Over to you.


This post is absolutely clueless.

Prince has consistently, from the beginning, put women in positions of power. He's almost always submissive to them (minus maybe 1 or 2 instances). Even with something like "Bambi", where people see it as homophobic, he still leaves it up to her. He pleads with her, tries every catcall in the book, but we never hear that she gave into his lusty desires to bone her. "Automatic" - women in control. "Darling Nikki" - she was in control and left his ass. He's so in love he does care where she takes him, just "take me with u". His sister dominated him in another song, becoming his pimp and dominatrix. Prince often sidesteps the obvious 1-2 punch of fucking on the first date, often vying to just spend time with a woman to get to know her, "tonight we make love with only words, girls first", "we'll try to imagine what silence looks like" (one of his best lines ever, by the way). He pleads his way into a girl's life and most intimate soul, asking "If I was your girlfriend, would you tell me?". The list is endless.

As far as the way Vanity or Apollonia dressed, they opted for that gig. They could have protested. They could have done something else. They were women in power, holding their sexuality as their own weapon of choice. Hell "Nasty Girl" ends with "that's it? Wake me when you're done." DISS! Vanity continued her sexy vixen look well past that one album. You think "Pretty Mess" is about French onion dip?

This thread is a non-starter.


I'd also add that in many instances, Prince was telling women they have the power (and also warning them to slow down when it comes to their sexuality - LRC "baby you're much too fast"). He was stating that he found women who had that control over themselves, knew what they wanted, and put themselves first, were to be admired. For example in Pussy Control:


And step she did 2 the straight A's
Then college, the master degree
She hired the heifers that jumped her
And made everyone of them work 4 free?
No! Why?
So what if my sisters are triflin'?
They just don't know
She said "Mama didn't tell'em what she told me
'Girl, U need Pussy Control'" (Are U ready?)


He was pointing out that a girl that received her education was a girl that was going places, was going to be someone. I'm not sure of any other artists that would make that distinction.

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Reply #78 posted 03/04/19 2:49pm

PURPLEIZED3121

Krystalkisses said:

I just wanted to say Prince's "worship" for women always bothered me.

How so?
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Reply #79 posted 03/04/19 2:58pm

oceanblue

Let me just put it this way, if Prince of back in the day would have done the things he did then with today's women, the #metoo movement would be on his ass big time! lol

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Reply #80 posted 03/04/19 3:16pm

OperatingTheta
n

PURPLEIZED3121 said:

Thank you to all who contributed. Looking at some of the replies & of far morecrelevance talking to younger people I know i think there's a clear dividing line. Some / most older fans = generally apologists for a earlier Prince behaviours/expressions vs Young people in general who wince/cringe at the videos/lyrics etc.


You weren't able to substantiate any of your 'interpretations' of the problem Prince songs you mentioned in your posts and none of your personal ideas about them are reinforced lyrically. 'Lady Cab Driver' simply does not reference a 'rape' as you suggested, as just one example... That rape is in your imagination, which likely conveys more about you than Prince.

And judging by your own statements regarding when you started listening to Prince, I am considerably younger than you are. But alluding to a nebulous idea such as 'age' being the issue is a convenient way of avoiding direct and critical engagement with the actual lyrics and themes you claim to find problematic. The reason I disagree with you is because I find your argument flimsy and unconvincing - it has nothing to do with 'age' or any other factors.
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Reply #81 posted 03/04/19 3:24pm

ThatWhiteDude

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Krystalkisses said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

There could be something to say, though, about his ease at working with women vs men

Sometimes that is sign of thoughts of gender imbalance

That is an interesting point. But just speaking as a woman it irked me how he seemed to place women in such an exalted position that we don't deserve. Both men and women have their dark side and sometimes I think Prince had an idealized view of how they are. Some of the most vicious people ( psychologically ) have been women and the most fair and consistent have been men. Just been my experience. I'm sure it was a totally different experience dealing with women for Prince . Women loved him and he seemed to really understand them.

Maybe he had trust issues with men since his stepfather was abusive (I don't know if John was abusive towards Prince and his siblings tho). Maybe I'm just reaching, but could it be that he felt safer around women?

"Like books and BLACK LIVES, Albums still MATTER."

Poppys, Shanon319, Number23, Kares. #lifttheban
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Reply #82 posted 03/04/19 3:32pm

sro100

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PURPLEIZED3121 said:

sro100 said:

Why? Why???!

God I can't take all this WOKE bullshit!!

I GUARANTEE if we looked into YOUR life we'd find plenty to condemn you about in this hypersensitive bullshit environment.

Plus let's analyze EVERY movie and song that doesn't fit into today's environment and we'd be left with....nothing but boring boring things.

As a matter of fact cry we'd condemn every living being if we looked into every moment of a person's existence.

lockdance

[Edited 3/4/19 13:33pm]

Thank you for that pointless contribution!

Thank you for the pointless thread!!

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Reply #83 posted 03/04/19 3:38pm

luvsexy4all

oceanblue said:

Let me just put it this way, if Prince of back in the day would have done the things he did then with today's women, the #metoo movement would be on his ass big time! lol

i dont think so..women wouldnt mind be "used" by Prince back then

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Reply #84 posted 03/04/19 8:38pm

pinkcashmere23

Krystalkisses said:

pinkcashmere23 said:

That reminds me of what he said during the show at Ghent in 2011 about how any time any thing went wrong in his life a man did it. He went on to give a few examples of how he had been wronged by men. I found that interesting.

It is interesting that he would share that.

Yes,it was rather out of the blue.

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Reply #85 posted 03/08/19 10:09am

Krystalkisses

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PURPLEIZED3121 said:

Krystalkisses said:

I just wanted to say Prince's "worship" for women always bothered me.

How so?


I don't know probably just because it's inherently biased.
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Reply #86 posted 03/08/19 10:12am

Krystalkisses

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ThatWhiteDude said:



Krystalkisses said:


OldFriends4Sale said:


There could be something to say, though, about his ease at working with women vs men



Sometimes that is sign of thoughts of gender imbalance



That is an interesting point. But just speaking as a woman it irked me how he seemed to place women in such an exalted position that we don't deserve. Both men and women have their dark side and sometimes I think Prince had an idealized view of how they are. Some of the most vicious people ( psychologically ) have been women and the most fair and consistent have been men. Just been my experience. I'm sure it was a totally different experience dealing with women for Prince . Women loved him and he seemed to really understand them.

Maybe he had trust issues with men since his stepfather was abusive (I don't know if John was abusive towards Prince and his siblings tho). Maybe I'm just reaching, but could it be that he felt safer around women?




That's a good observation too, plus I'm sure boys in school thought he was an easy target because of his size ( little did they know) I always admired how Prince stuck up for himself.
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Reply #87 posted 03/08/19 10:21am

Krystalkisses

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In response to the op, I think Prince's work/style/aesthetic was heavily influenced by pornography, and there has never been anything PC about that. There are many different aspects to Prince and his work but one thing that always felt constant was an undercurrent of it always felt like a merging of pornography/music in every era to me. The double entendres, the beat, the babes, all of it.
[Edited 3/8/19 10:23am]
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Reply #88 posted 03/08/19 11:23am

PURPLEIZED3121

206Michelle said:

No. He mentored, worked with, and befriended dozens of women. Sinead O’Connor aside, women like Wendy Melvoin, Lisa Coleman, Janelle Monae, Donna Grantis, Susan Rogers’s, Ida Nielsen, Hannah Welton, Tamron Hall, Kim Berry, Salma Hayek, Damaris Lewis...they all speak well of him. No allegations of sexual conduct.

whoaaaa..not so much sexual conduct [NOT the point of this thread] I am more focussed on outdated sexual imagery / lyrics etc. Wendy & Lisa mentioned this very point in a recent interview re certain scenes in P. Rain .

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Reply #89 posted 03/08/19 11:27am

PURPLEIZED3121

Krystalkisses said:

In response to the op, I think Prince's work/style/aesthetic was heavily influenced by pornography, and there has never been anything PC about that. There are many different aspects to Prince and his work but one thing that always felt constant was an undercurrent of it always felt like a merging of pornography/music in every era to me. The double entendres, the beat, the babes, all of it. [Edited 3/8/19 10:23am]

great point. The lyrics & imagery + the way he behaved on stage was 1] very much of it's time & 2] he did a lot for shock value / high marketing impact. Great for then & not so for now.

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Forums > Prince: Music and More > In light of the #metoo movement & an age of equality does P's portrayal of women now look horribly dated?