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Reply #60 posted 03/08/18 7:55pm

skywalker

avatar

It already has. Next question.

"New Power slide...."
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Reply #61 posted 03/08/18 8:09pm

206Michelle

BEAUGARDE said:

It's up to us to keep it going

yes

Live 4 Love ~ Love is God, God is love, Girls and boys love God above
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Reply #62 posted 03/08/18 9:27pm

databank

avatar

kewlschool said:



databank said:


Like a few fellow orgers above noted, the real question isn't whether Prince will be more or less remembered than James Brown or the Beatles but whether and by whom 20th century and contemporary pop music will still be listened to.


.


The comparison to classical composers seems somewhat inappropriate to me for several reasons:


.


- We do not possess any contemporary recordings from those composers: all that's survived from their work is music sheets that are to be recreated over and over and recorded by other musicians, born long after the composer and the original players have died. The way we appreciate and evaluate music has to be different somehow because when you hear a recording by a musician todazy (even if he's only a score composer who conducts an orchestra and doesn't play himself), you hear the music exactly as the composer intended it to be heard. It's even of course, stronger in the case of pop music when the composer actually plays and sings themselves on the record. No matter how many times Kate Bush will be covered, there will never be any contemporary rendition of her music by anyone else that will surpass her original records as the "ultimate and definitive version", and the same could be said of a Danny Elfman score recorded in his lifetime.


.


- Classical music was (and still remains to some extent) an elitist type of music that, at the time, was mostly directed at a small privileged and educated crowd of listeners. This very specific audience, made of influent tastemakers, has also ensured (for political reasons) that certain composers would remain in history as major forces even though the average man had never heard of Mozart or Beethoven in their lifetime. This is different from pop stars who reached millions of people in their lifetime but on the other hand do not necessarily benefit from an elite maintaining their legacy as a social marker for the next few centuries.


.


- The amount of music composed and produced every year for the last few decades surpasses in number the whole of what's been composed in, say, the whole 17th Century. There is a great amount of classical (by that I mean everything from Renaissance to Romantic eras) who have been more or less forgotten and whose music is hardly ever played anymore and basically about only a dozen names or so are well known by educated people who are not classical music lovers (say, what: Mozart, Wagner, Handel, Bach, Ravel, Debussy, Satie, Beethoven, Puccini, Chopin, Schubert, Vivaldi, Bizet, Strauss, Berlioz... I dare you to name many more if you're not into classical). That's very few people by comparison to how many composers left music sheets behind them, many of which are still being played today to some extent, and probably many more who aren't being played at all anymore, and we're talking a several centuries timespan. On one hand, 20th century composers will have left proper recording that'll be more easily available for anyone to hear but how many huge stars from the 1960's could a 20 year old still name today? I mean I'm into funk for example, and after 30 years listening to funk I could still probably listen to a new funk record every day until I die without having heard every funk record ever released. Now with easy recording techniques and the internet more records are being released every day than ever. What are people going to do with those billions of recordings in 2 century? How are poeple gonna even know where to begin? OK, there will always be music critics and tastemakers in the media to ensure some names are being remembered but yet, as generations are going to die, there will be fewer and fewer people to defend any such generation's heroes, and there is little political reason to keep the Beatles' legacy alive.


.


- It's really hard to imagine the future of music. Virtually every possible sonic experimentation has been made over the course of the last century, and the progress brought by technology to music has reached a peak nearly 2 decades ago (there is little one can do today that one couldn't do in 2001). Not to say nothing new will ever occur ever, of course there will be new genres and new trends, and maybe AI will eventually create music we couldn't even think of, but given that we can't even imagine what being human will mean in 300 hundred years, it's pretty hard to imagine what people will like to listen to, let alone what music from the past they will like.


.


In conclusion, it's extremely difficult to know whether Prince's music will still be listened to by more people than a few musicologists in a few centuries, but I'm pretty sure few, if any, of his contemporaries will do much better that him in that regard. Certainly, Prince will be remembered as one of the late 20th century's most influential composers, but I wouldn't bet too much on the average person having ever heard of him, or Elvis Presley, or The Beatles, or Bob Marley in the year 2318.



I never said Prince's renditions of his music will continue to be mainstream 100 years from now. But because he is an author of music he will be remembered like classic composers. Even Cole Porter fits that description.


I never said you said anything, I was replying kind of to every post I'd read in the thread while at the same time just sharing a few thoughts about the topic. Bottom line is I don't know, but I think we can't use classical composers as a reference. Cole Porter OK but Cole Porter hasn't been dead for 2 centuries.
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Reply #63 posted 03/08/18 9:28pm

databank

avatar

LadyLayla said:

Bonatoc,



I've always admired your prose. It is a feast for the mind.


Co-sign
biggrin
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Reply #64 posted 03/08/18 11:02pm

214

LadyLayla said:

Bonatoc,

I've always admired your prose. It is a feast for the mind.

Certainly it is.

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Reply #65 posted 03/08/18 11:30pm

Vannormal

avatar

databank said:

Like a few fellow orgers above noted, the real question isn't whether Prince will be more or less remembered than James Brown or the Beatles but whether and by whom 20th century and contemporary pop music will still be listened to.

.

The comparison to classical composers seems somewhat inappropriate to me for several reasons:

.

- We do not possess any contemporary recordings from those composers: all that's survived from their work is music sheets that are to be recreated over and over and recorded by other musicians, born long after the composer and the original players have died....

.

- Classical music was (and still remains to some extent) an elitist type of music that, at the time, was mostly directed at a small privileged and educated crowd of listeners. This very specific audience, made of influent tastemakers, has also ensured (for political reasons) that certain composers would remain in history as major forces even though the average man had never heard of Mozart or Beethoven in their lifetime. ....

You make some sort of little mistake here. (Don't worry, i won't bully you. wink )

There are so many stories about classical music.

Don't get me started... biggrin wink

-

First, it's not because music isn't recorded that it can't be remembered. I don't agree on that.

And on the other hand, yes, it CAN be different when something is recorded, cause it's 'frozen' in a moment, and we repeatedly listen to that frozen moment, and remember it so well.

(some people don't like live performances, as it differs from the 'recorded' version. can you imagine?)

But that's way to much to argue about. Forgive me. I'm not an expert for that matter.

But i do read some interesting stuff about this. It's a different topic.

-

But something else; classical music back in the day when it was hot.

Let start with the most known example by a composer everyone knows his name.

Mozart's Opera's for instance, had the elite sitting in the 'suites' up there (as usual), and the middle section was forseen and packed with the common, lower class (as usual).

"Die Entführung aus dem Serail" was an absolute 'common' cloud pleaser and certainly not with the elite, cause it was filled with sex and horny shit. (story goes a little girl 'does' it and looses her virginity with a horny Turkish 'pasja'. Oriental stuff was hip and exotic at the time)

It was sang in German, so the 'common' people in Austria (they speak German) could understand it. The elite were not amused because they prefered an Opera to be sang in Italian.

Mozart was 26 then, and he played the piano with much amusement to the chants and screams of the crowd. I went wild in there. Many performances were held as the Austrian crowd wanted to see and hear this more and more. Extra performances were held, and all were sold out very fast !

So many stories are known about explicit and controversial performances where the 'common crowd' often decided where a composition kind of went to.

Mozart wrote 'Don Giovanni', following to so many (crowd pleasing) incidents, a story about a womanizer (it was all about sex) etc...

Sure the elite was always 'up' there. They wanted to be seen by the lower classes as someone who was culturaly develloped and hip with the latest stuff, etc... And yes there were also lot's of complaints by for instance the Emperor of Austria.

Then another one, 'Le Nozze Di Figaro', a very risky opera, cause it was a satire about the elite, and the most important elemant in the story adultery by them. Although the emperor forbate the 'french' story in his country, Mozart transformed it into a frenzy and the crowd loved it, while the elite disliked it.

-

Also the media back then (yes there was media) played a big role in spreading the news.

Last example; another Mozart Opera is 'Cosi Fan Tutte'. But this time it's the story of women that went wild, and seduced men (once more 'sex and sex' which became a 'common crowd' pleaser, again).

So all these 'controversial' stories/Opera's were the result of the tention betwen elite and the crowd, cause they loved the controversy that Mozart created for them.

It made him enormous popular with everyone. Even the emperor had no choice, but secretly like him a lot.

-

(Other stories of other composers excists too. Too much to write down... I took a known composer...)

-

But you're right, loads of classical music was played in salons and castles, etc, for a certainly strong elite. But mostly 'classical chambre pieces'. And certainly in earlier times, and even later on. I do agree on that.

But with operas, as well as with known classical music performances there were 'common crowd' involvements and responses that led to reactions and influences on writings.

Honestly, the elite barely reacted or had big influences (as I come to think of it).

Remember Stravinsky's 'Le Sacre Du Printemps', it was scandalous in 1913 when it was performed.

(I think it was even recorded - not sure though.) And that's just a classical piece, no opera, but it do had ballet.

-

And for the rest I totally agree with you on the future of music and how Prince will get an important role or not.

I couldn't put it any better the way you wrote it. Excellent !

Personally I think Prince is great. But a genius ? Don't kill me, but I think he was just absolutely great in what he accomplished and did within his era.

-

And on the other hand I SO can live with what @bonatoc writes.

I can be as lyrical when Prince's fine tunes run through my headphones, and when I'm alone.

I even shed a tear once while hearing some pumping funk. (I think it was a long steaming rendition of 'Strange relationship (live)'). Which totally is not me.

[Edited 3/8/18 23:39pm]

"...no matter what, all will be fine, always."
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Reply #66 posted 03/08/18 11:32pm

ChanGirl

Is this a serious question ? Of course it will. It's Prince.

You know Prince wasn't no damn drug addict !
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Reply #67 posted 03/08/18 11:41pm

BlueShakooo

Vannormal said:

I just wrote this in another topic :

... What concernes me more is this; Pop and rock music actually is pretty young if you come to think about it (and see it in perspective of time). 60 plus years or so.

Idols die. One day pop and rock will be just like classical music, old(er) and possibly for some sort of elite, if still around and wanted, or maybe forgotten even.

But when not forgotten, hopefully Prince's legacy will belong to that elite ...

There will always be Music. And there will always be forgotten great artists as well. That I learned

So chances are 50/50. Only Time will tell.

-

For some years now (after I inherited a colleciton of my grandparents) I got into 78 rpm shellac recordings. So many artists we even never heard of. And when you search for info on them, you will find out that some of them sold millions and millions of records (even when there was limited radio). Quite impressive.

Most of them are totally forgotten right now. Just a few people collecting stuff, and some museums or libraries completing their collection are involved and know some information about them. Very few. Not even all is to be find on the internet. That's it.

And that all happened less than 100 years ago. (Since electric recording and record-playing was invented and shared.)

Classical music is still important. Simply because it is related to the instruments being used to create it (and written down in readable notes). And those instruments are still interesting today, to learn, to play, etc. Maybe one day that will end as well. Nothing is forever. There's also the techonological development in front of us. Maybe one day we can lsiten to music while just thinking of it, without having to use our ears !

Or to speak in terms of a 100 or 2OO years from now, and if Prince's music will still be there, I am pretty sure the chances that it will dissapear is pretty real. But we just can't tell do we.

-

From what we learned so far, it's quite possible Prince will be forgotten. And so be it - if so.

Do some of you know who Maria Callas is ? Know some music she did ? Or perhaps Tino Rossi ? Or Enrico Caruso ?

My nephews are 30 and they have no idea who Tina Turner is, let alone ever heard about Dire Straits, Yes, Earth Wind & Fire, Talk Talk, Japan, Rod Stewart, Robert Palmer, etc. I did the test. smile

[Edited 3/7/18 0:22am]

Very interesting!

I'd say that most of us know the names Maria Callas and Enrico Caruso and are aware of their status.

But only very few of us really actively listened to their stuff.

Maybe it will be (or already is) the same with Prince.

His name and status remembered, but only a very small part of his music (Purple Rain, Kiss and maybe When Doves Cry) commonly known.

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Reply #68 posted 03/09/18 12:54am

BlueLantern

I'm absolutely convinced that his music will stand the test of time,

Because, like Hendrix, Cream or Robin Trower, there is the musicianship (he was a proficient instrumentalist, and a remarkable guitarist),

Excellent musicians are rare in the field of popular music ; for example there is plenty of excellent guitarists in jazz, classical, flamenco (Tomatito for example), fusion (Steve Vai, Guthrie Govan, Andy Timmons, Shawn Lane, Buckethead, John Petrucci, Mattias Eklundh, Jonas Hellborg, and so on), instrumental music overall (Andy Mackee), but very few in popular music today (there is still Robin Trower, Eric Clapton, but they are at the end of their career ; Paul Gilbert - but Paul Gilbert is at the middle way between rock and instrumental music, Billy Gibbons... not so many anyway).

Prince was always surrounded by excellent musicians, especially the two last decades (Renato Neto - see for example his work on the 2009 version 'in a large room with no light'-, Ida Nielsen, 3ereyegirl overall, and many other ones)

Improvisation, musicianship needs good technical abilities of playing ; a lot of his late tracks have complexity (extended lead guitar playing, a lot of instrumentals with developed musicianship ('PlectrumElectrum' with Donna Grantis,'From the Lotus/Back to the lotus'...), proficient backing bands.

Some of his last tracks with 3reyegirl are enough well-developped and complex to stand the test of time ; personally tracks like 'Midnight Blues, Pretzelbodylogic, Black Muse, Wall of Berlin, Boom, are for me as good as the excellent Hendrix material.

Moreover, we can wait for probably unreleased material of this era.

One last thing, i think the influence of d'Angelo is something that mustn't be neglected on Prince since the beginning of the new millenium ; the organic style of music of 'Hit'n'Run 2 and 'The rainbow children' seems to be directly inspired of 'Voodoo' and 'Black Messiah' ; Maybe i'm wrong, but i don't think a musical gem like 'Black Muse' would have been possible without the music of the excellent D'Angelo.

Anyway, one has to worry about the musical landscape nowadays : Prince is gone, Van Hunt is prolific, talented, but has real difficulties with the business to make his music, and d'Angelo, despite the quality of his music, is not the archetypal of the prolific artist.

[Edited 3/9/18 7:14am]

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Reply #69 posted 03/09/18 2:47am

milesb

I reckon the music of the 20th Century will be held in high regard in the centuries to come. Birth place of Rock and Roll. And Prince was at the vanguard of that. He'll be revered for the amazing talent he had. He was constantly surprising us. I still think we have some surprises in store. I just hope we're around to see and hear them.

[Edited 3/9/18 2:47am]

My password is what
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Reply #70 posted 03/09/18 2:51am

milesb

206Michelle said:

BEAUGARDE said:

It's up to us to keep it going

yes

It'll keep itself going. Good music stands the test of time.

My password is what
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Reply #71 posted 03/09/18 4:27am

databank

avatar

Vannormal said:

databank said:

Like a few fellow orgers above noted, the real question isn't whether Prince will be more or less remembered than James Brown or the Beatles but whether and by whom 20th century and contemporary pop music will still be listened to.

.

The comparison to classical composers seems somewhat inappropriate to me for several reasons:

.

- We do not possess any contemporary recordings from those composers: all that's survived from their work is music sheets that are to be recreated over and over and recorded by other musicians, born long after the composer and the original players have died....

.

- Classical music was (and still remains to some extent) an elitist type of music that, at the time, was mostly directed at a small privileged and educated crowd of listeners. This very specific audience, made of influent tastemakers, has also ensured (for political reasons) that certain composers would remain in history as major forces even though the average man had never heard of Mozart or Beethoven in their lifetime. ....

You make some sort of little mistake here. (Don't worry, i won't bully you. wink )

There are so many stories about classical music.

Don't get me started... biggrin wink

-

First, it's not because music isn't recorded that it can't be remembered. I don't agree on that.

And on the other hand, yes, it CAN be different when something is recorded, cause it's 'frozen' in a moment, and we repeatedly listen to that frozen moment, and remember it so well.

(some people don't like live performances, as it differs from the 'recorded' version. can you imagine?)

But that's way to much to argue about. Forgive me. I'm not an expert for that matter.

But i do read some interesting stuff about this. It's a different topic.

-

But something else; classical music back in the day when it was hot.

Let start with the most known example by a composer everyone knows his name.

Mozart's Opera's for instance, had the elite sitting in the 'suites' up there (as usual), and the middle section was forseen and packed with the common, lower class (as usual).

"Die Entführung aus dem Serail" was an absolute 'common' cloud pleaser and certainly not with the elite, cause it was filled with sex and horny shit. (story goes a little girl 'does' it and looses her virginity with a horny Turkish 'pasja'. Oriental stuff was hip and exotic at the time)

It was sang in German, so the 'common' people in Austria (they speak German) could understand it. The elite were not amused because they prefered an Opera to be sang in Italian.

Mozart was 26 then, and he played the piano with much amusement to the chants and screams of the crowd. I went wild in there. Many performances were held as the Austrian crowd wanted to see and hear this more and more. Extra performances were held, and all were sold out very fast !

So many stories are known about explicit and controversial performances where the 'common crowd' often decided where a composition kind of went to.

Mozart wrote 'Don Giovanni', following to so many (crowd pleasing) incidents, a story about a womanizer (it was all about sex) etc...

Sure the elite was always 'up' there. They wanted to be seen by the lower classes as someone who was culturaly develloped and hip with the latest stuff, etc... And yes there were also lot's of complaints by for instance the Emperor of Austria.

Then another one, 'Le Nozze Di Figaro', a very risky opera, cause it was a satire about the elite, and the most important elemant in the story adultery by them. Although the emperor forbate the 'french' story in his country, Mozart transformed it into a frenzy and the crowd loved it, while the elite disliked it.

-

Also the media back then (yes there was media) played a big role in spreading the news.

Last example; another Mozart Opera is 'Cosi Fan Tutte'. But this time it's the story of women that went wild, and seduced men (once more 'sex and sex' which became a 'common crowd' pleaser, again).

So all these 'controversial' stories/Opera's were the result of the tention betwen elite and the crowd, cause they loved the controversy that Mozart created for them.

It made him enormous popular with everyone. Even the emperor had no choice, but secretly like him a lot.

-

(Other stories of other composers excists too. Too much to write down... I took a known composer...)

-

But you're right, loads of classical music was played in salons and castles, etc, for a certainly strong elite. But mostly 'classical chambre pieces'. And certainly in earlier times, and even later on. I do agree on that.

But with operas, as well as with known classical music performances there were 'common crowd' involvements and responses that led to reactions and influences on writings.

Honestly, the elite barely reacted or had big influences (as I come to think of it).

Remember Stravinsky's 'Le Sacre Du Printemps', it was scandalous in 1913 when it was performed.

(I think it was even recorded - not sure though.) And that's just a classical piece, no opera, but it do had ballet.

-

And for the rest I totally agree with you on the future of music and how Prince will get an important role or not.

I couldn't put it any better the way you wrote it. Excellent !

Personally I think Prince is great. But a genius ? Don't kill me, but I think he was just absolutely great in what he accomplished and did within his era.

-

And on the other hand I SO can live with what @bonatoc writes.

I can be as lyrical when Prince's fine tunes run through my headphones, and when I'm alone.

I even shed a tear once while hearing some pumping funk. (I think it was a long steaming rendition of 'Strange relationship (live)'). Which totally is not me.

[Edited 3/8/18 23:39pm]

I found your original post to be extremely interesting and so is your reply to mine nod

I stand corrected when it comes to classical music being less "elitist" than I thought it was. I'm not much into classical even though my folks were, so I never really dug the topic.

What I meant about music not being recorded (I think my original post is a bit confused/confusing) wasn't that it was necessarily forgotten but that our connection with the music is necessarily different whether we're listening to a posthumous rendition by third parties or to a recording that was made by the composer themselves. I may be wrong, but IDK, to me I can't really "ever" hear those composers' music because whatever it sounded like when they did it is lost forever.

I'm not very clear about all that in my mind, more like looking for answers than providing them lol

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Reply #72 posted 03/09/18 7:00am

bonatoc

avatar

Don't forget it doesn't have to be always about elite performances.
The history of the Troubadour, the troupes, there's a whole side
of popular entertainement that is not in your usual schoolbook, dating from Rome
and of course the Greek, way before the Wolfie Bitch milked the twins (ugh).

The first roadies, the first light technicians (try not to put fire to the barn like ye did last time, mate).
The first comedians, the first renowned ones, the first Mangiafuocos...

Live music is the final exam for a musician.
Can you play it in real time? Or are you just copy-pasting in your studio?
Can you convey the emotion again and again? In ways more than one?
Without sounding you're on repeat?

This morning I sat like a deer hypnotized by the car lights,
it was the ’86 Frisco live performance of "A Love Bizarre" (by sheer linkbait accident).

Most of Prince's grooves are hypnotic and fine the way they are on record,
but there are a lot of musical live performances
that just blow your mind in terms of musicianships, not to mention theatricals.

They're all beyond brilliant, Grace, a whole choreography like this and they never bump into each other.
And boy does he sing! How could he not?
They're kicking some severe.d.chopped("— 'gaiiin!") ass in the back.

And those qualities, in my book, make for a musician worth of being teached about,
especially if we're talking classical music ethics,
where usually the composer and/or director knows one or several instruments,
and surely knows everything about every instrument tessiture and limitations.
Today's classical musicians are real, real good (when they're good).
You gotta know your shit.
The Revolution sure did.
Such a Big Band extraordinaire near the end.

Because well, albums do matter,
but the live performance is where the magic happens.
Oh you have to be there: the audience is the most important.
Otherwise what would be the point of all this hard work?

TV's Yodling Trained-Monkeys mistake, most of the time,
aerobics for hard work. You gotta find your own gymnastics.
Don't start me on it. Point is, live is an integral part
of being a musician, if we mean "age well" as in "will outlive us all".

Yeah, of course.

I don't see why "Yellow Submarine" would get out the kindergarten's playlists
just because it's a decade, two decades, three centuries old.
I still get a kick out of Wolfie. Heck, even some medieval shit is quite heavy.
Music is a universe so vast even SKipper got humbled.
"I don't tend to listen to many records..." Bullshit Christopher, you had me for a few years there.
Actually that's not true, you confessed it on "The Ballad Of Dorothy Parker".
So many records, so little time.
Yet some stick.

Who wouldn't get through an album where the intro
starts like a congregation.
A congregation of what? Didn't the motorcycle on the sleeve sell rock'n'roll?
What's with this hallucinated preacher/muezzin stuff?
The more you wait, the more it says:
"you can still go through the exit door, but it's about to begin, so hurry and take a decision".
And then the drums thump and the fuzzed crunch raunches an apocalyptic leopard riff.
"But you can never leave".
Well, it's surely one of the most sought after buildings in The Big City, dearly beloved.

Good luck to go find an album that's so overtly Rock'n'Roll.
Prince may be depicted as the leader in the Movie, but a pretty far gone one.
That's rock'n'roll right there. The James Dean anguish. Broken families.
You gimme fever and all that jazz.

Purple Rain is the first true multimedia experience in pop history.
The theatrics of the Tour cannot be touched. They're the final touch, were the record passes the final test.
Hear these women scream, it's defeaning.

Unavoidable yesterday, unavoidable tomorrow, unavoidable today.
But it takes immersion to appreciate it, as many precious things do.

And say what thou whilst, on record he'll still be a friendly, nasty, ol' fellow.
The most seductive crooner, the ultimate yelper, a man reaching for angelic heights.
The guy knew how to laugh and that's, in my book,
a big yellow-markered bookmark
for the Chef-d’œuvre recipe.

On this occasion let me wish U all
environmentally friendly hamburgers,
organic root beer,
not to mention a fine,
perfect,
week-end.



[Edited 3/9/18 7:20am]

The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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Reply #73 posted 03/09/18 12:59pm

Vannormal

avatar

bonatoc said:

Don't forget it doesn't have to be always about elite performances.
The history of the Troubadour, the troupes, there's a whole side
of popular entertainement that is not in your usual schoolbook, dating from Rome
and of course the Greek, way before the Wolfie Bitch milked the twins (ugh).

The first roadies, the first light technicians (try not to put fire to the barn like ye did last time, mate).
The first comedians, the first renowned ones, the first Mangiafuocos...

Live music is the final exam for a musician.
Can you play it in real time? Or are you just copy-pasting in your studio?
Can you convey the emotion again and again? In ways more than one?
Without sounding you're on repeat?

This morning I sat like a deer hypnotized by the car lights,
it was the ’86 Frisco live performance of "A Love Bizarre" (by sheer linkbait accident).

Most of Prince's grooves are hypnotic and fine the way they are on record,
but there are a lot of musical live performances
that just blow your mind in terms of musicianships, not to mention theatricals.

They're all beyond brilliant, Grace, a whole choreography like this and they never bump into each other.
And boy does he sing! How could he not?
They're kicking some severe.d.chopped("— 'gaiiin!") ass in the back.

And those qualities, in my book, make for a musician worth of being teached about,
especially if we're talking classical music ethics,
where usually the composer and/or director knows one or several instruments,
and surely knows everything about every instrument tessiture and limitations.
Today's classical musicians are real, real good (when they're good).
You gotta know your shit.
The Revolution sure did.
Such a Big Band extraordinaire near the end.

Because well, albums do matter,
but the live performance is where the magic happens.
Oh you have to be there: the audience is the most important.
Otherwise what would be the point of all this hard work?

TV's Yodling Trained-Monkeys mistake, most of the time,
aerobics for hard work. You gotta find your own gymnastics.
Don't start me on it. Point is, live is an integral part
of being a musician, if we mean "age well" as in "will outlive us all".

Yeah, of course.

I don't see why "Yellow Submarine" would get out the kindergarten's playlists
just because it's a decade, two decades, three centuries old.
I still get a kick out of Wolfie. Heck, even some medieval shit is quite heavy.
Music is a universe so vast even SKipper got humbled.
"I don't tend to listen to many records..." Bullshit Christopher, you had me for a few years there.
Actually that's not true, you confessed it on "The Ballad Of Dorothy Parker".
So many records, so little time.
Yet some stick.

Who wouldn't get through an album where the intro
starts like a congregation.
A congregation of what? Didn't the motorcycle on the sleeve sell rock'n'roll?
What's with this hallucinated preacher/muezzin stuff?
The more you wait, the more it says:
"you can still go through the exit door, but it's about to begin, so hurry and take a decision".
And then the drums thump and the fuzzed crunch raunches an apocalyptic leopard riff.
"But you can never leave".
Well, it's surely one of the most sought after buildings in The Big City, dearly beloved.

Good luck to go find an album that's so overtly Rock'n'Roll.
Prince may be depicted as the leader in the Movie, but a pretty far gone one.
That's rock'n'roll right there. The James Dean anguish. Broken families.
You gimme fever and all that jazz.

Purple Rain is the first true multimedia experience in pop history.
The theatrics of the Tour cannot be touched. They're the final touch, were the record passes the final test.
Hear these women scream, it's defeaning.

Unavoidable yesterday, unavoidable tomorrow, unavoidable today.
But it takes immersion to appreciate it, as many precious things do.

And say what thou whilst, on record he'll still be a friendly, nasty, ol' fellow.
The most seductive crooner, the ultimate yelper, a man reaching for angelic heights.
The guy knew how to laugh and that's, in my book,
a big yellow-markered bookmark
for the Chef-d’œuvre recipe.

On this occasion let me wish U all
environmentally friendly hamburgers,
organic root beer,
not to mention a fine,
perfect,
week-end.



[Edited 3/9/18 7:20am]

Honey, you got some time there on your hands. biggrin

Wonderful.

"...no matter what, all will be fine, always."
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Reply #74 posted 03/09/18 1:01pm

2freaky4church
1

avatar

Classical is still around.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #75 posted 03/09/18 1:18pm

Vannormal

avatar

If, only IF, he then will be remebered for Purple Rain.

-

Live ? For me the 1999 tour was the best.

Right before the complete PR tour frenzy blew away the masses.

Prince was just on the top of his being and still proving it. And with PR he did kind of gambled, and won the biggest attention big time.

But for me just right before that, when he was about to lay his BIG EG, he was not only über cool, but unstopable and about to explode. He was still growing big and yet somhow underground-ish. Enough new wave to pop, enough pop to rock, and enough rock to roll up hill.

Its when I discoverd him. I was 17. But then i didn't realised it. Now can't get enough of it all, projecting it on my youthful empty mind and foolish juvinile behaviour. A soundtrack perfectly fitting.

-

Shame we don't see much live video's of the 1999 tour.

The bootlegs for sure are all my favorites from that era, even up until the very first live recordings of the tracks that ended up on PR.

BANG!

-

But this is my personal humble longing.

Sure people won't remember this era - IF (again, if) they even ever remember him in the greatest future ahead of us.

-

...all good things they say, (will) never last. May he Rest In Purple.

"...no matter what, all will be fine, always."
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Reply #76 posted 03/09/18 1:20pm

Vannormal

avatar

2freaky4church1 said:

Classical is still around.

...but Prince won't be i'm afraid.

"...no matter what, all will be fine, always."
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Reply #77 posted 03/09/18 1:32pm

PeteSilas

Vannormal said:

If, only IF, he then will be remebered for Purple Rain.

-

Live ? For me the 1999 tour was the best.

Right before the complete PR tour frenzy blew away the masses.

Prince was just on the top of his being and still proving it. And with PR he did kind of gambled, and won the biggest attention big time.

But for me just right before that, when he was about to lay his BIG EG, he was not only über cool, but unstopable and about to explode. He was still growing big and yet somhow underground-ish. Enough new wave to pop, enough pop to rock, and enough rock to roll up hill.

Its when I discoverd him. I was 17. But then i didn't realised it. Now can't get enough of it all, projecting it on my youthful empty mind and foolish juvinile behaviour. A soundtrack perfectly fitting.

-

Shame we don't see much live video's of the 1999 tour.

The bootlegs for sure are all my favorites from that era, even up until the very first live recordings of the tracks that ended up on PR.

BANG!

-

But this is my personal humble longing.

Sure people won't remember this era - IF (again, if) they even ever remember him in the greatest future ahead of us.

-

...all good things they say, (will) never last. May he Rest In Purple.

i really doubt that, none of us will be around to know but I doub that he'll only be remembered for Purple Rain because I've always thought he had a lot of gems that were ignored by everyone when he was alive. The classical composers, most of them were unknown before their deaths, how do we know that that won't be the case for some of Prince's music? I think some of Elvis' best music is ignored too and that might change with time, he's actually had a number one hit since his death.

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Reply #78 posted 03/09/18 2:07pm

bonatoc

avatar

Albums will stick. Pop rules have, good pop artists get a row of four, maybe five through-the-roof albums.
Prince will always have his four-five, as Bowie, Dylan, Mitchell, Bush, The Stones, The Beatles,
then some three, then some two. But even Maybe You've Been Brainwashed Too,
Lost in the Dream and Steve McQueen may reach posterity.

They're of sociological importance, these cortex stimulating beats with a purpose.
Pop music will always make history. You can't pack that much albums or singles in a year.
Prince will be way above a curiosity in the history books.
Allmusic starts with:

"Few artists have created a body of work as rich and varied as Prince.
During the '80s, he emerged as one of the most singular talents of the rock & roll era,
capable of seamlessly tying together pop, funk, folk, and rock.
Not only did he release a series of groundbreaking albums; he toured frequently,
produced albums, wrote songs for many other artists, and recorded hundreds of songs
that still lie unreleased in his vaults. With each album he released,
Prince showed remarkable stylistic growth
and musical diversity, constantly experimenting with different sounds, textures, and genres.
Occasionally, his music was inconsistent, in part because of his eclecticism,
but his experiments frequently succeeded; no other contemporary artist
blended so many diverse styles into a cohesive whole.
"

That's a critics consensus. I would say Prince has a big advantage over
classical, jazz or blues musicians. He has a lot of stuff circulating.
And the connoisseurs have dozens worth of albums,
there's this collect'em all® Panini Figures™ side to it.

Most of all, it's the guts.
Whether Prince is able to pique your senses or not.
"no other contemporary artist blended so many diverse styles into a cohesive whole."
You can say that again. It's nonsense to think Prince's work will be lost
in the digital noise. Names pass and fade away.
It's always been like this.

You can't be seriously pretend Prince will be an unknown
lost in such a list, even if ever growing.

We try to pass our music on to our fellow,
because of the first emotion felt.
Prince shocked, or whatever you want to call it,
many people, and offered new ways for his art of choice.
New ways for all pop writers that have to come afterwards.

Yeah alright, he won't be in the books,
SKipper's fucking laser-engraved in history my friend.
He's without a doubt in all National Libraries around the world.

There's a behemoth Gigabytes Monster circulating,
made of all Prince's albums in .flac, that speaks volumes.
It really is a heavy torrent. Means it's circulating.

There are musicology books,
but there is also popular culture.
Those who stick to the former only
are usally pretty boring in their art.

The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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Reply #79 posted 03/09/18 9:35pm

206Michelle

Due to the completixy and size of his catalogue, I think there's a great chance that his music will also generate sufficient scholarly interest in order to remain relevant among scholarly circles (e.g., university music departments).

Live 4 Love ~ Love is God, God is love, Girls and boys love God above
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Reply #80 posted 03/09/18 11:53pm

Vannormal

avatar

Just think in 200 years from now, or 2000 years (what is time in this universe anyway?)

-

I'm sorry, as much as I love your writings (i really do), Prince as well like most, will possibly be forgotten.

He was super awesome, but he was extroardinarely good, but he will dissapear between the unstoppable future, and the never ever stoppable growing pile of future music.

-

The era of pop and rock still IS very young. what? 60/70 years or so? On hundreds and thousands of years already passing us human kind ?

Maybe, possibly, something of this musical era (I do hope too) will survive and very maybe our Prince will be amongst it.

But for now, all is too fresh, too early, to step aside and see on a long term into the future.

But history teached us that nothing really actually remains.

All things are in a movement of change.

Some things will last, some don't.

So be it. I have no problem with Prince's music, or pop and rock, or even human kind to dissapear forever one day. Why not. Give it all back tonature, cause we sure know how to fuck things up on this planet, don't we. wink If a nuclear future (imagine we even needed to create that!) war won't spoil it all.

-

Aliens might come over and wonder what Music is. Maybe they think it's ear dirt, and can't understand what the hell that was all about, and why it was needed. biggrin

Yeah, you got me going now. smile biggrin

-

Back to my coffee and croissant. Then shower and in the meanwhile some Prince tune : I think i will listen to the Contoversy album this morning. wink

-

bonatoc said:

Albums will stick. Pop rules have, good pop artists get a row of four, maybe five through-the-roof albums.
(...)

You can't be seriously pretend Prince will be an unknown
lost in such a list, even if ever growing.

(...)

"...no matter what, all will be fine, always."
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Reply #81 posted 03/10/18 1:47am

stpaisios

If we avoid Idiocracy scenario in centuries to come, and as a Prince fan i must b optimistic we will - then Prince's music will not just age well, it'll b an essential reflection about this thing called life.

Being that music is the most universal language, and unlike other form of arts: painting, writing etc. it will always speak & touch individuals in their search 4 the lost chord. Prince is everlasting now phenomenon. If Christ's teaching is about that phenomenon, Prince was the one who was wlling and able to revive that feelin' -- and let me tell ya, i cant name the artist of our era who is giving the glimpse of that feelin' more than Prince... but 2 much pragmatists 2day, they need to open their dirty hearts:

"Why should you be satisfied with just heaven and earth?

When you look around there's so much more to the universe

Maybe every shining star, is just another part

If you and I could ever open up our dirty hearts"

Prince was always up-2-date 'bout some hot topics -- multiverse in this case.



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Reply #82 posted 03/10/18 2:42am

bonatoc

avatar

stpaisios said:

If we avoid Idiocracy scenario in centuries to come, and as a Prince fan i must b optimistic we will - then Prince's music will not just age well, it'll b an essential reflection about this thing called life.

Being that music is the most universal language, and unlike other form of arts: painting, writing etc. it will always speak & touch individuals in their search 4 the lost chord. Prince is everlasting now phenomenon. If Christ's teaching is about that phenomenon, Prince was the one who was wlling and able to revive that feelin' -- and let me tell ya, i cant name the artist of our era who is giving the glimpse of that feelin' more than Prince... but 2 much pragmatists 2day, they need to open their dirty hearts:

"Why should you be satisfied with just heaven and earth?

When you look around there's so much more to the universe

Maybe every shining star, is just another part

If you and I could ever open up our dirty hearts"

Prince was always up-2-date 'bout some hot topics -- multiverse in this case.




Few pop artists have put up so much religion in their work.
Whether on the verge of hippie-agnostic or cultish,
they always mention Prince being a horny toad,
and while I never calculated the horny/gospel ratio in his repertoire,
I know, you know there are a lot of songs that deal with the spiritual,
and a lot that speak about flesh and spirit.

That takes guts. I'd feel ridicule on the spot.
The single note of "I Would Die 4 U" is not easy to sing from the heart.
The twenty first verses I'd write would go to the bin.
It's not easy. Especially if you're not willing to give up to easy demagogic clichés
(I see kids in the street with not enough to eat but, poor Western Citizen me, I have a favorite winter coat,
I am twice an infamy. Where's that Synclavier preset? More pathos, Greg!).

While Prince went far as God-Romantic, with wind on the cliff, Heathcliff:
"and another light to rule the night",
there'ss your typical divine Zauberflöte "Sun is male and Moon is female",
"ow Lawd why are we different and why is it so good?
Why are we fighting when we could be makin' love?" (I'm getting all hippie on you but you see my point)
Later you get hippie-crooner shit like "The Sun, The Moon and Stars" freemason's view on the sexes,
which reeks of fine leather and Champagne.
And choirs. And pyramids and Sun kings, yum but yeech.

"The Beautiful Ones" has a fight. Thank God it's not on "Idiot Wind" lyrics, the Girl would never recover.
"When Doves Cry" has a fight with the Girl. There's not even a rival.
They scream at each other because they were taught that way.
James Dean again!
"Computer Blue" is urban anguish about love life.
And the invasion of the chips: right from the intro the riff is some kind of motherboard frying, stuck in a loop.
Something is wrong with the water and the machinery.
And the fellatio scene, honestly? Prince has the same brutal heartache as Dylan at some point in his life.
Purple Rain could be some Pyschedelic-rock Blood On The Tracks.
Darling Nikki is pathetic man's love deceipt. God is on the other end, in reverse.
At the heart of Purple Rain the album, there's a succession of one psycho-analysis after the other.
Sandwiched in between exuberance and hippie, Jesus-Christ Superstar-like vibes.

"Do you know how it easy it would have been for me to make a second Purple Rain?",
asked the guy who by this point had already wrote a dozen more albums.
The slight smile.


Not only the music will last, but he's already in history
for being the first (and only, for years) willing
to shift and quake a shitty industry's tectonic plates.
To confront all arts greedy milkers.


There was, of course, that business in the 90s when he went to war with Warner Bros,
changing his name to an unpronounceable symbol
and marking his eventual exit from the label
with a triple CD pointedly titled Emancipation.
“A lot of people didn’t know what I was doing,” he says,
“but it helped some people. I don’t care what people think.”
He’s not as angry now. “I don’t look at it as Us versus Them.
I did. But you know The Wizard of Oz?
When they pull back the curtain and see what’s going on?
That’s what’s happened.”



[Edited 3/10/18 5:53am]

[Edited 3/10/18 5:53am]

The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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Reply #83 posted 03/10/18 3:20am

bonatoc

avatar

I don't like numbers, but little did I know my SKipper had made that much bucks.
I mean the first time I heard it during the terrible week, I was proud of my captain, aye mate.

The man that made them all mad, inspired Radiohead and others to fly without a major,
I thought he was doing well, but no more than fifty.

So now you have this layer of pure data over it,
but it just makes for a much more fascinating persona.
It's the icing. What a businessman.
But since we're talking about a musician,
people will want to know what the fuss is about.
Once you get under Prince's make-up, that's when it starts to be good.
Most if not all of Prince's sonic imagery doesn't require visuals.
You either get under his skin or don't.
He either gets to your heart or doesn't.
And if you really need visuals...




The Colors R brighter, the Bond is much tighter
No Child's a failure
Until the Blue Sailboat sails him away from his dreams
Don't Ever Lose, Don't Ever Lose
Don't Ever Lose Your Dreams
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Reply #84 posted 03/10/18 3:40am

lonelyalien

I suppose it comes down to the themes of the songs universal theme's of love will last and I think his religious songs might be looked back on with interest as in 'oh look what people used to believe in back in the 21st century'. I hope by that time in the future all organised religion would have been disproved or Jesus will have turned up.

I'm just like everybody else I need love.....and water.
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Reply #85 posted 03/10/18 10:08am

luvsexy4all

if and when the estate crap gets settled...does that mean it will free up everyone's interest to release as much as possible for years to come?

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Reply #86 posted 03/10/18 12:08pm

PeteSilas

bonatoc said:

I don't like numbers, but little did I know my SKipper had made that much bucks.
I mean the first time I heard it during the terrible week, I was proud of my captain, aye mate.

The man that made them all mad, inspired Radiohead and others to fly without a major,
I thought he was doing well, but no more than fifty.

So now you have this layer of pure data over it,
but it just makes for a much more fascinating persona.
It's the icing. What a businessman.
But since we're talking about a musician,
people will want to know what the fuss is about.
Once you get under Prince's make-up, that's when it starts to be good.
Most if not all of Prince's sonic imagery doesn't require visuals.
You either get under his skin or don't.
He either gets to your heart or doesn't.
And if you really need visuals...




ironic as it may seem for an artist so concerned with image, yesterday i was reading of a photo shoot where prince expressed a rare bit of disgust over having to do it yet again and pointed to a group of people who worked for him who relied on him to survive. I was surprised by that, not sure if i even totally agree with that person's impression, which was that he lived to be in the studio and that the rest of it was stuff to be endured, not sure i agree with that but it was an interesting take.

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Reply #87 posted 03/10/18 12:10pm

PeteSilas

stpaisios said:

If we avoid Idiocracy scenario in centuries to come, and as a Prince fan i must b optimistic we will - then Prince's music will not just age well, it'll b an essential reflection about this thing called life.

Being that music is the most universal language, and unlike other form of arts: painting, writing etc. it will always speak & touch individuals in their search 4 the lost chord. Prince is everlasting now phenomenon. If Christ's teaching is about that phenomenon, Prince was the one who was wlling and able to revive that feelin' -- and let me tell ya, i cant name the artist of our era who is giving the glimpse of that feelin' more than Prince... but 2 much pragmatists 2day, they need to open their dirty hearts:

"Why should you be satisfied with just heaven and earth?

When you look around there's so much more to the universe

Maybe every shining star, is just another part

If you and I could ever open up our dirty hearts"

Prince was always up-2-date 'bout some hot topics -- multiverse in this case.



sometimes i think music is what the great artist like lennon said "music of the spheres" or rather music that actually is sort of everywhere and fated to be that way. the great artists often say they don't write their own material that it just comes through them, prince said it too so maybe this music is already everywhere at all times.

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Reply #88 posted 03/10/18 1:57pm

mynameisnotsus
an



My god - almost 200 years old and still incomparable. Sooooo beautiful - this is why Beethoven will live forever.
MJ fans may want to check out from 1:07:45 - I didn't known the meaning before.
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Reply #89 posted 03/10/18 6:32pm

coldasice

No
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