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Reply #60 posted 08/01/17 8:42am

hw3004

BartVanHemelen said:

IMHO the estate should first release a definitive document of Prince's final tour.

There are likely soundboard recordings of all 22 concerts (2 @ PP, 11 @ AUS, 9 @ USA). There should be a deluxe box set with:

- all gigs
- a professionally filmed video of at least one of those shows
- a tourbook-like photo-album

- a documentary containing personal testimonials from people who went to the gigs and have interesting stories (no "best ever" BS) and backstage info from technicians etc.
- probably more ideas

I'd even argue that all professionally filmed concerts should be included; or perhaps that there should be a separate box set if there are too many.

Perhaps there should be three box sets:
- the PP concerts + documentary
- The AUS tour
- the USA tour

(Thats too much for the general public, so you'd need smaller box sets featuring only one or two concerts, or perhaps a "highlights" concert compiled from various gigs, à la From the Muddy Banks of the Wishkah.)

This should be a celebration of that tour, a final document.

However, that will take a serious investment: all recordings need to be found and prepared for release. Perhaps the professionally videotaped ones are all still unedited (or perhaps there is an unfinshed edit), so that's more work to be done by professionals. The artwork needs to be designed, photos need to be selected, perhaps fans need to be contacted to obtain their photos,...

And then this needs to be a worldwide release, well-timed, and promoted properly. For instance an edited version of the documentary could be shown on TV, coupled with a professionally filmed concert.

But I don't see that happening without support from a major player. And I don't even know if this would be a big money maker, or more something like a prestige project. So that's a major hurdle.

i suppose the obvious recent precedent for this type of release would be the Dylan 1966 boxset...

A monumental 36-disc box set featuring every known recording from Bob Dylan’s mythic and controversial 1966 tour of the US, UK, Europe and Australia.

With the exception of the Manchester concert (May 17, 1966) released as Bob Dylan Live 1966 – The Bootleg Series Vol. 4 in 1998, a pair of songs appearing on the 1985 Biograph compilation and a smattering of others, the overwhelming majority of tracks and performances on Bob Dylan: The 1966 Live Recordings are previously unreleased in any format--official or bootlegged--and are being made available now for the very first time.

All the songs on The 1966 Live Recordings were written by Bob Dylan (vocal, guitar, piano, harmonica) with the sole exception of "Baby, Let Me Follow You Down," a traditional song arranged by Bob Dylan for concert performance. Dylan is accompanied on these recordings by Robbie Robertson (guitar), Rick Danko (bass, backing vocals), Richard Manuel (piano), Garth Hudson (organ) and Mickey Jones (drums). (Sandy Konikoff plays drums on the White Plains and Pittsburgh shows only.)

Meticulously researched, curated and restored for this extraordinary collection, Bob Dylan: The 1966 Live Recordings is drawn from three main audio sources: soundboards, CBS Records mobile recordings and audience tapes.

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Reply #61 posted 08/01/17 10:42am

DownTheNeedleD
ownTheSpoon

hw3004 said:

i suppose the obvious recent precedent for this type of release would be the Dylan 1966 boxset...

A monumental 36-disc box set featuring every known recording from Bob Dylan’s mythic and controversial 1966 tour of the US, UK, Europe and Australia.

With the exception of the Manchester concert (May 17, 1966) released as Bob Dylan Live 1966 – The Bootleg Series Vol. 4 in 1998, a pair of songs appearing on the 1985 Biograph compilation and a smattering of others, the overwhelming majority of tracks and performances on Bob Dylan: The 1966 Live Recordings are previously unreleased in any format--official or bootlegged--and are being made available now for the very first time.

All the songs on The 1966 Live Recordings were written by Bob Dylan (vocal, guitar, piano, harmonica) with the sole exception of "Baby, Let Me Follow You Down," a traditional song arranged by Bob Dylan for concert performance. Dylan is accompanied on these recordings by Robbie Robertson (guitar), Rick Danko (bass, backing vocals), Richard Manuel (piano), Garth Hudson (organ) and Mickey Jones (drums). (Sandy Konikoff plays drums on the White Plains and Pittsburgh shows only.)

Meticulously researched, curated and restored for this extraordinary collection, Bob Dylan: The 1966 Live Recordings is drawn from three main audio sources: soundboards, CBS Records mobile recordings and audience tapes.

I disagree...a Boxzilla release is unattainable for many ($$$). Just do it right... 1 show at a time, 4 shows a year, this way everyone has something to look forward to every three months. You can do a Subscription which guarantees you wont miss out on a sold outrelease, and offer a la carte for those that want shows only from a particular era...

Three things are important here:

1) Sound Quality

2) Complete Show (not partial snipits)

3) Quality Packaging

You'd want Prince himself to be happy he received this in the mail smile

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Reply #62 posted 08/02/17 4:13am

hw3004

DownTheNeedleDownTheSpoon said:

hw3004 said:

i suppose the obvious recent precedent for this type of release would be the Dylan 1966 boxset...

A monumental 36-disc box set featuring every known recording from Bob Dylan’s mythic and controversial 1966 tour of the US, UK, Europe and Australia.

With the exception of the Manchester concert (May 17, 1966) released as Bob Dylan Live 1966 – The Bootleg Series Vol. 4 in 1998, a pair of songs appearing on the 1985 Biograph compilation and a smattering of others, the overwhelming majority of tracks and performances on Bob Dylan: The 1966 Live Recordings are previously unreleased in any format--official or bootlegged--and are being made available now for the very first time.

All the songs on The 1966 Live Recordings were written by Bob Dylan (vocal, guitar, piano, harmonica) with the sole exception of "Baby, Let Me Follow You Down," a traditional song arranged by Bob Dylan for concert performance. Dylan is accompanied on these recordings by Robbie Robertson (guitar), Rick Danko (bass, backing vocals), Richard Manuel (piano), Garth Hudson (organ) and Mickey Jones (drums). (Sandy Konikoff plays drums on the White Plains and Pittsburgh shows only.)

Meticulously researched, curated and restored for this extraordinary collection, Bob Dylan: The 1966 Live Recordings is drawn from three main audio sources: soundboards, CBS Records mobile recordings and audience tapes.

I disagree...a Boxzilla release is unattainable for many ($$$). Just do it right... 1 show at a time, 4 shows a year, this way everyone has something to look forward to every three months. You can do a Subscription which guarantees you wont miss out on a sold outrelease, and offer a la carte for those that want shows only from a particular era...

Three things are important here:

1) Sound Quality

2) Complete Show (not partial snipits)

3) Quality Packaging

You'd want Prince himself to be happy he received this in the mail smile

The Dylan box is currently selling for a less than £100...obviously not cheap, but hardly unattainable at less than £3 per disc.

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Reply #63 posted 08/02/17 5:18am

EddieC

hw3004 said:

DownTheNeedleDownTheSpoon said:

I disagree...a Boxzilla release is unattainable for many ($$$). Just do it right... 1 show at a time, 4 shows a year, this way everyone has something to look forward to every three months. You can do a Subscription which guarantees you wont miss out on a sold outrelease, and offer a la carte for those that want shows only from a particular era...

Three things are important here:

1) Sound Quality

2) Complete Show (not partial snipits)

3) Quality Packaging

You'd want Prince himself to be happy he received this in the mail smile

The Dylan box is currently selling for a less than £100...obviously not cheap, but hardly unattainable at less than £3 per disc.

Less than a 100 pounds? I just looked at Amazon and it's less than a 100 dollars (94 and change, to be less imprecise)--so, yeah, that's not bad. Now, I think it was more when it first came out, and that "first come out" price is the one that I'd have to figure out how to pay for Prince, probably--but the Dylan's pretty reasonable now. (Even though, full disclosure--I acquired the set when it was released and have only listened to 3 or 4 shows--still, I could listen to them.)

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Reply #64 posted 08/02/17 2:13pm

luvsexy4all

this is ridiculous....no need to worry about this...theres enough to sell for 100 years

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Reply #65 posted 08/02/17 5:38pm

206Michelle

FunkOnTheOne said:

The problem is the problem that faces most modern music. Once the first copy us out there on the Internet, it will simply be shared for free.

This is not necessarily true. If the Estate can offer a higher-quality version that what is currently available, then people will buy the recording.
Live 4 Love ~ Love is God, God is love, Girls and boys love God above
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Reply #66 posted 08/03/17 5:10am

EddieC

206Michelle said:

FunkOnTheOne said:
The problem is the problem that faces most modern music. Once the first copy us out there on the Internet, it will simply be shared for free.
This is not necessarily true. If the Estate can offer a higher-quality version that what is currently available, then people will buy the recording.

But the moment the higher-quality version is available, then that higher-quality version will start being shared. That won't stop people from buying if they want to support and encourage future releases or if they just don't take advantage of shared music for some moral or legal reason--but anything sold can be shared at the same quality, and will be.

EDITED TO CHANGE THE PHRASE "FEWER RELEASES" to "FUTURE RELEASES" (Good God that was bad)

[Edited 8/3/17 21:10pm]

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Reply #67 posted 08/03/17 6:00pm

databank

avatar

BartVanHemelen said:

soladeo1 said:

What if The Estate put every show online - similar to what Bruce Springstein and Tori Amos do - catalogued by tour - and allowed the public to purchase the concerts for $5 a pop??

.

Not gonna happen. Not soon anyway.

.

First of all: pre-1996 shows would likely be objected to by WBR, since they could use those for deluxe packages and because they might have some hold on them anyway.

.

Later shows? Same problem: you risk diluting the offer for companies bidding on post-WBR releases, because they'd need such live shows to sell deluxe versions.

.

Unless such a venture is part of a major plan which is agreed upon by the companies involved, the risk of poisoning the well is too great.

.

Right now we're in a sort-of massive stalemate.

.

Oh, and blame Prince for all this: he could have organised such a venture ages ago, but didn't.

I'm afraid you're right: you can't sell a catalogue for millions and at the same time compete with the buyer's interests by releasing competitive products directly to the fans. I'm not an expert in recording industry business models but if a major is gonna invest millions in the rights they'll have to be exclusive, and all we're gonna get for years is the yearly or so deluxe release, with the vast majority of P's catalogue remaining locked in the vault for decades. If anything, the best would be for a dynamic indy label to get the rights to the main releases (the way Ryko got Bowie and Zappa 30 years ago), that would allow the estate to establish a direct online store or streaming service with the rest of the material, and that can only happen if no major will buy the catalogue.

It seems we have a paradox here, because it may be more profitable to release fewer material with higher profile than a lot of it with a low profile, but IDK really, I can only be happy with what I already have and hope for the both of us being wrong :/

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #68 posted 08/06/17 11:04pm

Germanegro

avatar

databank said:

BartVanHemelen said:

.

Not gonna happen. Not soon anyway.

.

First of all: pre-1996 shows would likely be objected to by WBR, since they could use those for deluxe packages and because they might have some hold on them anyway.

.

Later shows? Same problem: you risk diluting the offer for companies bidding on post-WBR releases, because they'd need such live shows to sell deluxe versions.

.

Unless such a venture is part of a major plan which is agreed upon by the companies involved, the risk of poisoning the well is too great.

.

Right now we're in a sort-of massive stalemate.

.

Oh, and blame Prince for all this: he could have organised such a venture ages ago, but didn't.

I'm afraid you're right: you can't sell a catalogue for millions and at the same time compete with the buyer's interests by releasing competitive products directly to the fans. I'm not an expert in recording industry business models but if a major is gonna invest millions in the rights they'll have to be exclusive, and all we're gonna get for years is the yearly or so deluxe release, with the vast majority of P's catalogue remaining locked in the vault for decades. If anything, the best would be for a dynamic indy label to get the rights to the main releases (the way Ryko got Bowie and Zappa 30 years ago), that would allow the estate to establish a direct online store or streaming service with the rest of the material, and that can only happen if no major will buy the catalogue.

It seems we have a paradox here, because it may be more profitable to release fewer material with higher profile than a lot of it with a low profile, but IDK really, I can only be happy with what I already have and hope for the both of us being wrong :/

The estate will have to endure sorting through the legal morass of the rights retained by companies Prince dealt his previously published material and other material rights these companies posess under their contractural umbrella.

>

The estate also must assess the condition of their massive collection of Prince's tape recordings to understand what kind of work needs to be done to make them manipulable for production. Indexing of the tapes' content should be done so that everything they actually possess is known. I think that the estate should conduct these two objectives independently if it is in any way within their means to do so. I feel it is possible for the estate to go either way in regard to dealing or not dealing with major entertainment companies in developing Prince's unreleased material. It seems that the majors cannot manage a project unless they make a major-scale operation with big promotional efforts and they always wish to limit their variety of product offerings to maximize profit margins toward a product. This seems to put a serious limitation on Prince's material that fans and the curious would like to obtain.

>

Given identification of the materials in the estate's posession, opportunity would exist for the estate to independently prepare and distribute recordings of Prince's live performances and heretofore unknown works--the material untethered to contractural restrictions by the Warner Bros., Universal, Sony, Arista, etc. Like I've said before, Prince started his self-distribution of recorded material and other products during the NPG Music Club era but stopped short of making it a long-term endeavor. I feel the estate could pick up on the task that Prince experimented with during that period of the 2000s.

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Reply #69 posted 08/10/17 8:49am

BartVanHemelen

avatar

Germanegro said:

The estate also must assess the condition of their massive collection of Prince's tape recordings to understand what kind of work needs to be done to make them manipulable for production. Indexing of the tapes' content should be done so that everything they actually possess is known.

.

The problem is: playing them to ensure that the documentation on the reel or the box is correct may already be damaging them. Right now Belgian broadcaster VRT is doing a massive project where they're going through lacquer discs that they've recorded ages ago and digitizing them because plenty of them are already becoming unplayable. How? Well, first they're taking the disc "as is" (even if it's dirty) and playing it once to record it. Then they clean it, and it might very well be that simply cleaning them destroys the disc...

.

© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
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Forums > Prince: Music and More > Idea for The Estate: Put the soundboard recordings online and sell each show for $5