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Reply #210 posted 06/26/17 1:59am

fabriziovenera
ndi

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It is hard for me to write a track to track review. I read some of yours, and I agree with most of things you wrote. It is hard to write an "album" review: too much tracks was in outtakes, so I need more time to think this cd as an "album". Sure, I'm happy to have it. Sure, it could be better, and - sure- it is far away to be a bad album. I think it is a son of the WB-estate trouble legal relationship, but I think it is important that it has been relased.

There are some tracks that are nice to listen: the long long version of Dance Electric is a "ambient" of ideas where Prince play with chorus and voices; Computer Blue is a masterwork, dot; Love and Sex is a funny joke, with a lot of sound and ideas that remind me Sign 'o' the Times/Lovesexy era; Electric Intercourse seems to come from alternate reality; Possessed and Wonderful Ass are brilliants and full of musical things.

Our Destiny/Roadhouse Garden is a "bad mix", it does not work fine IMHO, and kills a fragile track like Roadhouse Garden. Velvet Kitty Cat, is more a demo that a song and Katrina's Paper Dolls too: KPD expecially sound like a demo of a superb pop song. I hope there is a more finished version somewhere.

We can fuck, I have a personal problem with it. I loved in 1988 the revolution version I found in Chocolate Box, so I really hated the Graffiti Bridge version. Hated. The Purple Rain Deluxe version is the core of the Graffiti Bridge version, so I like a lot of things in this version, more than the Graffiti Bridge version, but when I hear voices and chorus used also in the hated Graffiti Bridge... I know it is a personal problem. Anyway, I love the last 4 minutes, wondeful.

Father Song, ok. I'm not mad for it, but it is another brick in the Prince wall.

I'd like to share what I feel.

[Edited 6/26/17 2:34am]

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Reply #211 posted 06/26/17 2:12am

james

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Sorry if this has been asked before, but do we know why this configuration of Our Destiny/Roadhouse Garden is included in this set, and why they segue as they do?

.

After listening a few times I have a theory....

.

Perhaps these were included in a rough configuration of the album, given to WB.

These are just demos, but the idea was to have them as 2 live performances sequeing in the film (and on the album)

Appolonia or Jill performing Our Destiny, into Prince & The Revolution performing Roadhouse Garden. Either in the rehearsal room scenes or in First Avenue.

This was later cut from the film (probably never even filmed).

.

This would explain why they're in lesser quality... because they were never intended to be the final album versions.

It also, kind of, explains the different versions of Our Destiny.

.

Good theory!?? biggrin

[Edited 6/26/17 2:13am]

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Reply #212 posted 06/26/17 4:14am

TheEnglishGent

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What are those first words Prince says at the start of Electric intercourse? At about 21 seconds, just before he starts the verse verse with, I feel some kind of love for you. I can't figure it out.

RIP sad
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Reply #213 posted 06/26/17 4:50am

bonnie184

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Reply #214 posted 06/26/17 5:27am

OnlyNDaUsa

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TheEnglishGent said:



What are those first words Prince says at the start of Electric intercourse? At about 21 seconds, just before he starts the verse verse with, I feel some kind of love for you. I can't figure it out.




I think it is just "oh" or something
No one is coming for your abortion: they just want common-sense abortion regulations: background checks, waiting periods, lifetime limits, take a class, and a small tax.
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Reply #215 posted 06/26/17 6:14am

darkroman

On the 2-disc version, it bothers me the Vault tracks are disc 2.

Disc 2 should be the edits and extended versions.

I know people who like PR and would buy the remaster but don't want Vault tracks they have no interest in.

I feel the Vault tracks should have been disc 3 on the expanded deluxe version only.

I'm sure one day I'll come to terms with this - when I have got over the sleepless nights!


lol

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Reply #216 posted 06/26/17 6:35am

TheEnglishGent

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darkroman said:

On the 2-disc version, it bothers me the Vault tracks are disc 2.

Disc 2 should be the edits and extended versions.

I know people who like PR and would buy the remaster but don't want Vault tracks they have no interest in.

I feel the Vault tracks should have been disc 3 on the expanded deluxe version only.

I'm sure one day I'll come to terms with this - when I have got over the sleepless nights!


lol

If that was the case I would have had to buy the full version. I was glad that I could just buy the two disc set and not have to purchase the b-sides/alternates disc.

RIP sad
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Reply #217 posted 06/26/17 6:43am

darkroman

TheEnglishGent said:

darkroman said:

On the 2-disc version, it bothers me the Vault tracks are disc 2.

Disc 2 should be the edits and extended versions.

I know people who like PR and would buy the remaster but don't want Vault tracks they have no interest in.

I feel the Vault tracks should have been disc 3 on the expanded deluxe version only.

I'm sure one day I'll come to terms with this - when I have got over the sleepless nights!


lol

If that was the case I would have had to buy the full version. I was glad that I could just buy the two disc set and not have to purchase the b-sides/alternates disc.


That is very interesting indeed.

I wonder how passive music purchasers feel rather than fans - as general music lovers would have never heard the extended versions before - after all, they would have bought the album because they liked the songs on it and may not be interested in Vault tracks.

It's interesting to know how such a marketing decision is made in this case.


lol

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Reply #218 posted 06/26/17 7:55am

cstudio

That tiny bit of synth-line from 04:13 to 04:17 in Love and Sex... faint

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Reply #219 posted 06/26/17 8:24am

TheFreakerFant
astic

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TheEnglishGent said:



What are those first words Prince says at the start of Electric intercourse? At about 21 seconds, just before he starts the verse verse with, I feel some kind of love for you. I can't figure it out.

Just him going 'a whah ho', it's not words.

[Edited 6/26/17 8:24am]

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Reply #220 posted 06/26/17 8:27am

TheFreakerFant
astic

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EddieC said:

TheFreakerFantastic said:

Well, Princevault actually stated this, not me, although since this morning it has been removed (but you can see it was there if you look at the History tab). But what you say also doesn't make sense as how could INXS have copied Prince if he had never even released that track?! LOL.

I think certain fans who seem to think Prince never copied or borrowed from anyone else needs to do some musical research!

[Edited 6/25/17 15:05pm]

Prince borrowed lots--but not this. The timing doesn't work for Mediate, which is later than Prince's recording. There's no real connection from Prince to Bob, since Subterranean Homesick Blues doesn't have any lyrical similarity to Wonderful Ass. Yes, there are short lines that are rhymed, but none of them are on an "-ate" ending, and, if Mediate (which Prince couldn't have heard or stolen from) didn't have a video that parodied SHB there would be no confusion. But that parody is a VISUAL one, and has nothing to do with lyrics, and there's no lyrical connection between either the INXS track or the Prince one and Dylan's. Musically none of them have any relationship.

HOWEVER--in the Dylan video there is a moment when Bob holds up a cue card with "Pawking Metaws" on it. This is clearly the inspiration for the "Wrecka Stow" scene in Under the Cherry Moon. And I'm going to say that twenty times in different places on the internet, and then it shall be true!!!

And here's my edit: Mediate didn't steal from Wonderful Ass either. Seriously, it's called a coincidence.

[Edited 6/25/17 15:29pm]

But even Prince said there are no coincidences!

in this case the similarities between Mediate and Wonderful Ass are incredibly close, although due to the dates INXS would have had to be the imitator, perhaps they BOTH took this reference from another artist?! Or maybe it was originally thought up by Prince / the Revolution (wonder what Wendy and Lisa would have to say on this).

Or, possibly, although this is unlikely, perhaps INXS somehow got hold of a bootlegged copy of it which inspired them?!

[Edited 6/26/17 8:30am]

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Reply #221 posted 06/26/17 8:33am

TheEnglishGent

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TheFreakerFantastic said:

TheEnglishGent said:



What are those first words Prince says at the start of Electric intercourse? At about 21 seconds, just before he starts the verse verse with, I feel some kind of love for you. I can't figure it out.

Just him going 'a whah ho', it's not words.

[Edited 6/26/17 8:24am]



Sounds like 'rock how' lol to me, but it makes no sense.

RIP sad
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Reply #222 posted 06/26/17 8:35am

TheFreakerFant
astic

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^ Yes, i think it's just a vocal sound biggrin

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Reply #223 posted 06/26/17 8:42am

TheEnglishGent

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TheFreakerFantastic said:

^ Yes, i think it's just a vocal sound biggrin


Seems really weird. I don't know why it's bothering me lol

RIP sad
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Reply #224 posted 06/26/17 8:50am

TheFreakerFant
astic

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^ I quite like it. It reminds me a bit of the vocal sounds Kate Bush made on some of her songs.

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Reply #225 posted 06/26/17 8:55am

darkroman

TheFreakerFantastic said:

^ I quite like it. It reminds me a bit of the vocal sounds Kate Bush made on some of her songs.


Awesome comparison!


I love the interpretation posted above : 'a whah ho'.

I think they have that spot on!

4 min 57 seconds of pure perfection!


lol

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Reply #226 posted 06/26/17 9:05am

TheFreakerFant
astic

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^ Agreed, an amazing song.

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Reply #227 posted 06/26/17 9:23am

TrevorAyer

the thing that grates on me with possessed and we can fuck is the monotonous looped percussion in the background ... not only are they very non 1984 sounding in the prince cannon, but they are also very not prince sounding in his entire discography ... not even in remixes has the percussion been so unwavering in its repetition ... they both sound completely unfinished in a sort of referencial percussion manner .. like he was going to fix up the percussion later .. between the batman drums in possessed and the looped finger cymbals and smash crash of we can fuck .. its just too fucking droning on forever ... prince always found ways to make the percussion seem alive .. this is not the case in these takes ... i do feel the when doves cry percussion likely came out of trying to imitate the feel of we can fuck while trying to give it more space at the same time ... and considering the keyboard outro on the end, i agree with the theory that we can fuck may have originally been considered in when doves cry spot on the album ... still that beat for 10 minutes is like stabbing my ear with a pencil .. that it comes from graffiti bridge and has such an odd beat takes it right out of the era for me ... it seems very out of place on this package .. very unfinished .. no guitar .. and far more manufactured than his songs of the era ... as in .. just sounds like a looped background through most if it ... not much live playing ... i don't like it .. possessed is worse tho ... love and sex is the worst thing on the disk ... sounds like eminems "just lose it" .. that s all i hear when i hear this song .. i hate eminems song too .. i would love to hear all of our favorite bootlegs in pristine .. not sure why they dont start there .. plenty of gold to be made from what we know is in the vault .. these selections are pretty wacked out ... velvet kitty kat .. i mean jesus .. moonbeam levels is sounding better and better if this is the best they can do ... wonderful ass was the only appropriate take and song for this release .. outstanding song .. completely finished ... good sound quality .. adds to prince legacy in a way no one can deny .. all these other takes sound like true out takes .. songs that sucked .. instead of finished great songs that just did not fit on the album .. which is what we were all hoping for .. electric intercourse and fathers song both sound like there are far better takes in the vault .. they just sound cluttered and a little off .. both are great songs but these takes can't be the best takes ... no way ...

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Reply #228 posted 06/26/17 9:27am

rdhull

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TrevorAyer said:

the thing that grates on me with possessed and we can fuck is the monotonous looped percussion in the background ... not only are they very non 1984 sounding in the prince cannon, but they are also very not prince sounding in his entire discography ... not even in remixes has the percussion been so unwavering in its repetition ... they both sound completely unfinished in a sort of referencial percussion manner .. like he was going to fix up the percussion later .. between the batman drums in possessed and the looped finger cymbals and smash crash of we can fuck .. its just too fucking droning on forever ... prince always found ways to make the percussion seem alive .. this is not the case in these takes ... i do feel the when doves cry percussion likely came out of trying to imitate the feel of we can fuck while trying to give it more space at the same time ... and considering the keyboard outro on the end, i agree with the theory that we can fuck may have originally been considered in when doves cry spot on the album ... still that beat for 10 minutes is like stabbing my ear with a pencil .. that it comes from graffiti bridge and has such an odd beat takes it right out of the era for me ... it seems very out of place on this package .. very unfinished .. no guitar .. and far more manufactured than his songs of the era ... as in .. just sounds like a looped background through most if it ... not much live playing ... i don't like it .. possessed is worse tho ... love and sex is the worst thing on the disk ... sounds like eminems "just lose it" .. that s all i hear when i hear this song .. i hate eminems song too .. i would love to hear all of our favorite bootlegs in pristine .. not sure why they dont start there .. plenty of gold to be made from what we know is in the vault .. these selections are pretty wacked out ... velvet kitty kat .. i mean jesus .. moonbeam levels is sounding better and better if this is the best they can do ... wonderful ass was the only appropriate take and song for this release .. outstanding song .. completely finished ... good sound quality .. adds to prince legacy in a way no one can deny .. all these other takes sound like true out takes .. songs that sucked .. instead of finished great songs that just did not fit on the album .. which is what we were all hoping for .. electric intercourse and fathers song both sound like there are far better takes in the vault .. they just sound cluttered and a little off .. both are great songs but these takes can't be the best takes ... no way ...

blah blah blah..for years youve stated how much you hated his music and practices. With no objectivity. We get it..nothing he pus out is good to you. You have your agenda and its been spelled out plain and clear. We got it. Weve seen your videos of your music and you criticize heralded outttakes. God you must have huge balls. Lots of fun to be had Im sure

c'mon baby, where's ya guts?
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Reply #229 posted 06/26/17 10:03am

thedaner

I've seen some respond about these Vault tracks saying that "this isn't the same as the version that's been out" or other comments to the effect that the bootlegs that have been out have been a preferred version for arrangement issues--obviously not sound issues--like: this version is missing a guitar part, or whatever...

I believe I saw an interview with Prince himself who said that bootlegs are never what was intended for a final mix. These were ususally leaked--illegally--by an engineer or someone else at the studio and we as listeners just got used to them.

Now, if some of these were mixed recently (in the past 12 months) then that's a different story altogether. But, I'm inclined to believe that Disc 2 were the mixes/versions that Prince intended.

Just my thoughts...

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Reply #230 posted 06/26/17 10:04am

thedaner

My guess is that the Vault has been talked about so much (especially right after Prince died) that they figured the casual fan would be interested as well

darkroman said:

TheEnglishGent said:

If that was the case I would have had to buy the full version. I was glad that I could just buy the two disc set and not have to purchase the b-sides/alternates disc.


That is very interesting indeed.

I wonder how passive music purchasers feel rather than fans - as general music lovers would have never heard the extended versions before - after all, they would have bought the album because they liked the songs on it and may not be interested in Vault tracks.

It's interesting to know how such a marketing decision is made in this case.


lol

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Reply #231 posted 06/26/17 10:14am

fen

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TrevorAyer said:

the thing that grates on me with possessed and we can fuck is the monotonous looped percussion in the background ... not only are they very non 1984 sounding in the prince cannon, but they are also very not prince sounding in his entire discography ... not even in remixes has the percussion been so unwavering in its repetition ... they both sound completely unfinished in a sort of referencial percussion manner .. like he was going to fix up the percussion later .. between the batman drums in possessed and the looped finger cymbals and smash crash of we can fuck .. its just too fucking droning on forever ... prince always found ways to make the percussion seem alive .. this is not the case in these takes ... i do feel the when doves cry percussion likely came out of trying to imitate the feel of we can fuck while trying to give it more space at the same time ... and considering the keyboard outro on the end, i agree with the theory that we can fuck may have originally been considered in when doves cry spot on the album ... still that beat for 10 minutes is like stabbing my ear with a pencil .. that it comes from graffiti bridge and has such an odd beat takes it right out of the era for me ... it seems very out of place on this package .. very unfinished .. no guitar .. and far more manufactured than his songs of the era ... as in .. just sounds like a looped background through most if it ... not much live playing ... i don't like it .. possessed is worse tho ... love and sex is the worst thing on the disk ... sounds like eminems "just lose it" .. that s all i hear when i hear this song .. i hate eminems song too .. i would love to hear all of our favorite bootlegs in pristine .. not sure why they dont start there .. plenty of gold to be made from what we know is in the vault .. these selections are pretty wacked out ... velvet kitty kat .. i mean jesus .. moonbeam levels is sounding better and better if this is the best they can do ... wonderful ass was the only appropriate take and song for this release .. outstanding song .. completely finished ... good sound quality .. adds to prince legacy in a way no one can deny .. all these other takes sound like true out takes .. songs that sucked .. instead of finished great songs that just did not fit on the album .. which is what we were all hoping for .. electric intercourse and fathers song both sound like there are far better takes in the vault .. they just sound cluttered and a little off .. both are great songs but these takes can't be the best takes ... no way ...

The restrained and hypnotic drum track is one of my favourite things about WCF. The section after the line “...blow the candle out, we'll see if it's true”, during which he strikes on every beat, sounds almost tribal and ritualistic. I think it's perfect. The power of simplicity is one of Prince's greatest lessons in my view.

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Reply #232 posted 06/26/17 10:45am

TheEnglishGent

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TrevorAyer said:

the thing that grates on me with possessed and we can fuck is the monotonous looped percussion in the background ... not only are they very non 1984 sounding in the prince cannon, but they are also very not prince sounding in his entire discography ... not even in remixes has the percussion been so unwavering in its repetition ... they both sound completely unfinished in a sort of referencial percussion manner .. like he was going to fix up the percussion later .. between the batman drums in possessed and the looped finger cymbals and smash crash of we can fuck .. its just too fucking droning on forever ...

Definitely agree about Posessed, there's no way this is a finished track. It's a demo he recorded for going back to later. It's not finished and nobody will convince me otherwise. I wrote this in another thread :

"example of this is about 4:15 where Pince sings, "If you relate to the feeling, let me hear you say yeah". There's an approximately 100% chance that there should be a callback shout of, "yeah", after that. Shortly after he sings, "If you relate to the groove, let me hear you say oooh", and there's a little ooh after that, which makes the lack of the yeah response even stranger."

Are there any examples of Prince asking a question of the listener like this and not giving a response? It sounds so wrong. Even in Love And Sex he asks, "Do you feel alright?" and gives us a shout of yeah. A call and response is a Prince standard.

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm delighted to have this, I'm just saying.

RIP sad
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Reply #233 posted 06/26/17 11:18am

rusty1

We can funk 86 version is the best hands down.
The bass & drum machine in that one is kick ass
BOB4theFUNK
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Reply #234 posted 06/26/17 11:33am

ufoclub

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TheEnglishGent said:

TrevorAyer said:

the thing that grates on me with possessed and we can fuck is the monotonous looped percussion in the background ... not only are they very non 1984 sounding in the prince cannon, but they are also very not prince sounding in his entire discography ... not even in remixes has the percussion been so unwavering in its repetition ... they both sound completely unfinished in a sort of referencial percussion manner .. like he was going to fix up the percussion later .. between the batman drums in possessed and the looped finger cymbals and smash crash of we can fuck .. its just too fucking droning on forever ...

Definitely agree about Posessed, there's no way this is a finished track. It's a demo he recorded for going back to later. It's not finished and nobody will convince me otherwise. I wrote this in another thread :

"example of this is about 4:15 where Pince sings, "If you relate to the feeling, let me hear you say yeah". There's an approximately 100% chance that there should be a callback shout of, "yeah", after that. Shortly after he sings, "If you relate to the groove, let me hear you say oooh", and there's a little ooh after that, which makes the lack of the yeah response even stranger."

Are there any examples of Prince asking a question of the listener like this and not giving a response? It sounds so wrong. Even in Love And Sex he asks, "Do you feel alright?" and gives us a shout of yeah. A call and response is a Prince standard.

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm delighted to have this, I'm just saying.

I think we've had this version in instrumental form for a while on bootleg, and I think part of it is even played in Purple Rain the movie. It's finished. It's very much in the vein of a 1999 party dance track. But with a weird mellow eastern flair. A lot of the outtakes on this disc remind me of 1999 type stuff, which is probably why he buried them at the time.

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Reply #235 posted 06/26/17 12:47pm

TheEnglishGent

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ufoclub said:

TheEnglishGent said:

Definitely agree about Posessed, there's no way this is a finished track. It's a demo he recorded for going back to later. It's not finished and nobody will convince me otherwise. I wrote this in another thread :

"example of this is about 4:15 where Pince sings, "If you relate to the feeling, let me hear you say yeah". There's an approximately 100% chance that there should be a callback shout of, "yeah", after that. Shortly after he sings, "If you relate to the groove, let me hear you say oooh", and there's a little ooh after that, which makes the lack of the yeah response even stranger."

Are there any examples of Prince asking a question of the listener like this and not giving a response? It sounds so wrong. Even in Love And Sex he asks, "Do you feel alright?" and gives us a shout of yeah. A call and response is a Prince standard.

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm delighted to have this, I'm just saying.

I think we've had this version in instrumental form for a while on bootleg, and I think part of it is even played in Purple Rain the movie. It's finished. It's very much in the vein of a 1999 party dance track. But with a weird mellow eastern flair. A lot of the outtakes on this disc remind me of 1999 type stuff, which is probably why he buried them at the time.


Which boot is the instrumental on? I normally pay very little attention to the instrumentals. And as for the 1999 thye stuff, can't argue with that.

RIP sad
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Reply #236 posted 06/26/17 1:23pm

214

EddieC said:

214 said:

Sorry but there isn't one.

There could be. We just haven't heard of it yet. lol

Believe me there isn't, i own the vault, so i know what i am talkin about.

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Reply #237 posted 06/26/17 1:32pm

BoraBora

TheEnglishGent said:

ufoclub said:

I think we've had this version in instrumental form for a while on bootleg, and I think part of it is even played in Purple Rain the movie. It's finished. It's very much in the vein of a 1999 party dance track. But with a weird mellow eastern flair. A lot of the outtakes on this disc remind me of 1999 type stuff, which is probably why he buried them at the time.


Which boot is the instrumental on? I normally pay very little attention to the instrumentals. And as for the 1999 thye stuff, can't argue with that.



"Out Takes" (from 1989/1990)


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Reply #238 posted 06/26/17 2:57pm

DaveT

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Just catching up on folks comments, interesting stuff and a good read ...

... not getting much love for The Dance Electric though. The more I listen to this, the more I have to place it in my top ten Prince songs of all time, its just banging. Such urgency in the chord progression, amazing driving beat ... honestly Prince could have rinsed this groove for thirty minutes and I'd still be in Prince heaven. This must sound so good in a club on the dancefloor.

And he didn't even released this!! I mean ... damn ... genius beyond anything that came before or we'll see again.

www.filmsfilmsfilms.co.uk - The internet's best movie site!
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Reply #239 posted 06/26/17 3:18pm

rdhull

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Doesn't anyone remember the interview where he speaks of giving Dance Electric to Andre? He mocks talking to Andre saying "You want this..its a iht, you know its a hit" in mock holier than thou speak. I think it may have been that France interview with all the extras surrounding him. Prince knew the song was a stone cold jam. And was wiling to give it up for his friend.

c'mon baby, where's ya guts?
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