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Reply #60 posted 05/05/17 3:25am

databank

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By definition, a "filler" is a filler IF the artist's intention was to record/use it for the sole purpose of "filling" album space. Therefore, it's a matter of intention not quality, and only someone involved in the record can tell whether a song is a filler or not.

Most people mean "songs I don't like" by "filler", which somehow deafeats the purpose of discussing fillers.

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I apologize for every time I offended someone when debates got "heated". Love y'all yes
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Reply #61 posted 05/05/17 3:36am

TheFman

databank said:

By definition, a "filler" is a filler IF the artist's intention was to record/use it for the sole purpose of "filling" album space. Therefore, it's a matter of intention not quality, and only someone involved in the record can tell whether a song is a filler or not.

Most people mean "songs I don't like" by "filler", which somehow deafeats the purpose of discussing fillers.


It's a bit contradictionary imo. That means that filler can actually be the best work on an album?
I dont think that's the general idea of what filler is, by nobody, just by definition.

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Reply #62 posted 05/05/17 3:57am

fabriziovenera
ndi

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I think Prince made a lot of 'filler', where 'filler' are songs that do not add sense to the Album concept, or appears as less definited than others. For example I do not think Arrogance like a filler, 'cause it is homogeneus to the album idea.

Some example of song I feel like filler are "2 Y 2 D", "$", the Crystal Ball's remixes, "Mr. Nelson", "We march"... It is not a quality check, but a Album perspective.

IMHO

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Reply #63 posted 05/05/17 4:30am

TheFman

I think MJ's albums a great examples to define 'filler'.
On 'Bad', speed demon is filler like nothing else, it's so sub-par and lacks any creativity it hurts.

On Thriller, most critics agree on a couple of filler tracks (the 2 non-singles) what are style-wise ok with the rest of the album, but lacks anything what the other tracks made great.

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Reply #64 posted 05/05/17 1:39pm

mtlfan

jaypotton said:

As others have said, it is pretty hard to make a distinction between something being FILLER and it being a song you do NOT LIKE. I think there is at least one song on every album Prince has ever released that I do not like (or at least am content to skip over). Not sure that makes those songs filler. As a general "feeling" I think it becomes apparent that once we move from vinyl era albums (restricting Prince to 45 mins per record) to the CD era albums (70-80 minutes per disc) we start to see sub par songs creeping in more overtly (and sometimes more than one per album). For a while it seemed like Prince wanted to cram those albums full to the gills simply to show (or because) he had so much material. Emancipation is a good example. No way (for me) that should be a triple CD. However, am I glad he did release it as a triple CD...hell yeah. Because it allows me to choose the songs I like best and make a killer album. Actually other artists did the same thing through the 90s and 00s but lately there has been a bit of a return to the perfect 45-50 minute listening experience.

Yep. I prefer a concise single LP, even one as short as 30 minutes, to a bloated CD album with too many similar songs.

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Reply #65 posted 05/06/17 12:56am

Rebeljuice

TheFman said:

databank said:

By definition, a "filler" is a filler IF the artist's intention was to record/use it for the sole purpose of "filling" album space. Therefore, it's a matter of intention not quality, and only someone involved in the record can tell whether a song is a filler or not.

Most people mean "songs I don't like" by "filler", which somehow deafeats the purpose of discussing fillers.


It's a bit contradictionary imo. That means that filler can actually be the best work on an album?
I dont think that's the general idea of what filler is, by nobody, just by definition.

Wasn't When Doves Cry recorded last minute to fill a gap?

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Reply #66 posted 05/06/17 2:06am

2045RadicalMat
tZ

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Million dollar show
Laveaux
arms of Orion
U Got the Look (*same track later/earlier used for Bob George)
Superfunkicalifragisexy
Courtin Time
Every Day is a winding road (*but this one is actually damn good)
So Far So Pleased
Walk in Sand
Elixir (Bria Valente album)
Crimson and Clover
Everybody Loves Me
All the critics love you in New York
Ronnie Talk To Russia (generic song)
Mr Nelson




Dunno about the person who said "Illusion coma pimp and circumstance" i think that's clearly one of his better, wordplay bitter kind of songs in recent years. Maybe it's got too many changes for the casual listener.

Kinda like the person who called 3 chains o gold garbage. It's another Opus from the album. Disjointed and a little misleading but it's great.
♫"Trollin, Trolling! We could have fun just trollin'!"♫
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Reply #67 posted 05/06/17 5:08am

MattyJam

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fabriziovenerandi said:

I think Prince made a lot of 'filler', where 'filler' are songs that do not add sense to the Album concept, or appears as less definited than others. For example I do not think Arrogance like a filler, 'cause it is homogeneus to the album idea.


Some example of song I feel like filler are "2 Y 2 D", "$", the Crystal Ball's remixes, "Mr. Nelson", "We march"... It is not a quality check, but a Album perspective.


IMHO



Arrogance is not filler, it's one of the funkiest jams on Symbol.
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Reply #68 posted 05/06/17 5:12am

MattyJam

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2045RadicalMattZ said:

Million dollar show
Superfunkicalifragisexy
Courtin Time
Every Day is a winding road (*but this one is actually damn good)
So Far So Pleased
Crimson and Clover
Mr Nelson


I love all of these songs. I suppose a case could be made for Mr Nelson, but even that I would say fits in with the overarching sound of the album and is at least something different stylistically for Prince.
[Edited 5/6/17 5:13am]
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Reply #69 posted 05/06/17 6:23am

tbokris

100% agree
Except for The Morning Papers this whole album is such a misstep

rdhull said:



Y'all REALLY love Symbol album. I have no idea why though. The whole album could be erased from his repetoire and not be missed.

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Reply #70 posted 05/06/17 6:39am

dodger

tbokris said:

100% agree
Except for The Morning Papers this whole album is such a misstep

rdhull said:



Y'all REALLY love Symbol album. I have no idea why though. The whole album could be erased from his repetoire and not be missed.



100% disagree. I know the segues and 'story' are a bit daft and even if you don't like the hip hop attempts and Tony M there's still some top notch P tracks like And God Created Woman, Damn U and 7.
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Reply #71 posted 05/06/17 6:43am

MattyJam

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tbokris said:

100% agree
Except for The Morning Papers this whole album is such a misstep

rdhull said:



Y'all REALLY love Symbol album. I have no idea why though. The whole album could be erased from his repetoire and not be missed.



Really? To me, Sweet Baby, Damn U, Morning Papers and 7 are amongst his best songs of the 90s.

And then you have The Max, Sexy MF, Blue Light, And God Created Women, Arrogance, Sacrifice of Victor and 3 Chains O Gold, which are all interesting/fun tracks.

Love Symbol is his best album of the 90s for me.
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Reply #72 posted 05/06/17 7:15am

Pokeno4Money

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rdhull said:

Come and Chaos n Disorder seem like filler songs as albums mostly.

During the classic era though:

Glam Slam

The Max

Arrogance

It

Hot Thing

Tick Tick Bang

Trust

Lemon Crush


Hot Thing a filler? no no no!

Tambourine, now THAT is a filler.

"Jussie Smollett wanted to become the Rosa Parks of Gay Black Men, but instead he became the Rosie Ruiz."

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Reply #73 posted 05/06/17 8:07am

airth

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This thread is hilarious. Everyone seems to have a different definition of what filler actually is. Tracks that are stated as being absolute filler are countered as being personal favourites by others. I'll join in: I like Hot Thing, but there's no way on earth it is a superior song to Tambourine. In fact, Tambourine might well be the best song on ATWIAD.

Years of listening to Captain on the Peach & Black podcast has made me realise that every single piece of music made by Prince must have at least one fan out there. I love how Prince's music can be so polarising.

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Reply #74 posted 05/06/17 8:33am

mbdtyler

As far as I'm concerned, there are two valid meanings for "filler" within this thread: 1) Songs that Prince himself threw together for the sole purpose of filling empty space on an album, without giving it as much thought as the other tracks, or 2) Songs that seem to fill space in a less interesting or enjoyable way than the rest of the songs on an album. Since none of us don't know how Prince truly felt about every song he recorded, or his intention in putting them on each album, then we are stuck with option #2 for the time being.

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Reply #75 posted 05/06/17 9:22am

SoulAlive

airth said:

In fact, Tambourine might well be the best song on ATWIAD.

lol "Tambourine" is a lame throwaway track.Would have been great if he had replaced it with the superior "She's Always In My Hair",a track that's too good to be just a B-side.

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Reply #76 posted 05/06/17 9:26am

SoulAlive

Imo,"Hot Thing" has lyrics that are too simplistic.This is the type of song that I would have expected from Rick James at that point.Rick was getting lazy with his songwriting.

Pokeno4Money said:

Hot Thing a filler? no no no!

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Reply #77 posted 05/06/17 12:46pm

NorthC

mbdtyler said:

As far as I'm concerned, there are two valid meanings for "filler" within this thread: 1) Songs that Prince himself threw together for the sole purpose of filling empty space on an album, without giving it as much thought as the other tracks, or 2) Songs that seem to fill space in a less interesting or enjoyable way than the rest of the songs on an album. Since none of us don't know how Prince truly felt about every song he recorded, or his intention in putting them on each album, then we are stuck with option #2 for the time being.


But even songs in the # 2 category can have meaning. Around the World In a Day introduces us to a concept and the we continue with Paisley Park, Condition of the Heart and Raspberry Beret , which are all brilliant, so it's nice that Prince builds down the tension with a funny little ditty that's not too serious. And it has a sound that none of the other songs on the album have. So Tamborine may be filler in the sense that it's not as great as the rest, but it serves as a little joke to end side one before we get serious again with the opener of side 2. Although I'm not sure we can take America seriously any more than Ronnie Talk to Russia... But Prince the social and political commentator... That is a different subject!
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Reply #78 posted 05/06/17 12:55pm

2freaky4church
1

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Da Da Da. Something Beverly Park Blvd. The Love Symbol segs.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #79 posted 05/06/17 12:56pm

mtlfan

SoulAlive said:

Imo,"Hot Thing" has lyrics that are too simplistic.This is the type of song that I would have expected from Rick James at that point.Rick was getting lazy with his songwriting.

Pokeno4Money said:

Hot Thing a filler? no no no!

Sometimes simple works. For every Prince song about a little cousin getting AIDS from a heroin needle while gangbanging in Baltimore please-save-him-Jesus, there are a dozen about going out dancing in Uptown and meeting a girl who's maybe a lesbian that just needs a real man to come on her before her wedding but first she ties him to the bed. Dance music works best when it has hypnotic, repetitive elements. Even "Bolero" adheres to those principles. Same with sex music. I love Frank Zappa but I don't think I'd want to play anything that complicated and abrupt while fucking.

Whoops. Sorry, Prince - I'll put a loonie in the swear jar for you.

All I'm saying, at my last Prince show, the audience left singing "Hot Thing" on their way to the coat check, not "Sign o' the Times." And I'll go to bat for "It" any day.

[Edited 5/6/17 12:57pm]

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Reply #80 posted 05/06/17 1:07pm

NorthC

2freaky4church1 said:

Da Da Da. Something Beverly Park Blvd. The Love Symbol segs.


You may be on to something here. Prince originally intended to have more segues on prince that actually did tell a story, but replaced them with eye Wanna Melt With U and the ones that were left didn't add anything... Same with Exodus... There's 20 minutes of useless blabla that waste album space that could have been filled with music.
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Reply #81 posted 05/06/17 2:52pm

Pokeno4Money

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airth said:

I like Hot Thing, but there's no way on earth it is a superior song to Tambourine. In fact, Tambourine might well be the best song on ATWIAD.


Here's the thing: There's nothing wrong with liking or not liking any particular song, as we all are entitled to our own opinions.

But when it comes to the definition of a "filler" song, it would be a song that gets included on an album even though the artist doesn't think it's all that great and doesn't expect it to be a popular or hit song. It would be a song that isn't pushed for radio airplay, doesn't have an official video, has only one released version of it, isn't performed in concert very often, is short in length, is part of an album that doesn't have that many songs, and isn't released as a single (A or B side).

Now let's compare the two songs in question, shall we?

Hot Thing was released as a single, B-side to "Never Take The Place of Your Man"
Tambourine was never released as a single

Hot Thing made it to #14 on the US R&B Charts
Tambourine never charted

Hot Thing has at least three released versions (Edit, Extended Remix, Dub)
Tambourine has only the one version

Hot Thing is part of the Sign O' The Times video
Tambourine doesn't have an official video

Hot Thing is 5:39 long
Tambourine is just 2:47 long, the shortest song on the album by far

Hot Thing was one of 16 songs, therefore clearly not needed for filler
Tambourine was one of just 9 songs, so it's not like Prince struggled to find room for it

Hot Thing was performed in concert by Prince 147 times
Tambourine was performed in concert by Prince just once

It's cool that you like Tambourine, but if ever a song qualified as filler ... that one would.





"Jussie Smollett wanted to become the Rosa Parks of Gay Black Men, but instead he became the Rosie Ruiz."

https://nypost.com/2019/0...a-is-long/
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Reply #82 posted 05/06/17 3:02pm

214

NorthC said:

And as for Do U Lie, the whole Under the Cherry Moon/Parade concept was about nostalgia, it was filmed in France, so having something that sounds like a French chanson on that album totally fit within the concept. No filler at all. Once again, "filler" is NOT the same as "a song I don't like". [Edited 5/4/17 12:36pm]

Quite right.

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Reply #83 posted 05/06/17 3:02pm

214

mediumdry said:

In one of the many interviews with Susan Rogers she mentioned that Play In The Sunshine was one of the songs that was recorded to fill space between other songs on the album. Now granted, that does not mean the song (or songs recorded for similar reasons) is filler in the sense that it wasn't given effort.

.

In any event, I guess that makes it as close to filler as it comes.

.

(and no, Venus de Milo is not filler, no matter what anyone says, and Prince agrees, he kept playing it regularly up to and including his last tour)

eek eek I don't believe that.

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Reply #84 posted 05/06/17 4:24pm

jaawwnn

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It off SOTT, I LOVE that song. Great track, not filler at all.

Something off the middle of disc 3 of Emancipation would be filler. Style and Sleep Around, I can barely remember how they go, I dont even dislike them.
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Reply #85 posted 05/06/17 4:29pm

jaawwnn

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214 said:



mediumdry said:


In one of the many interviews with Susan Rogers she mentioned that Play In The Sunshine was one of the songs that was recorded to fill space between other songs on the album. Now granted, that does not mean the song (or songs recorded for similar reasons) is filler in the sense that it wasn't given effort.


.


In any event, I guess that makes it as close to filler as it comes.


.


(and no, Venus de Milo is not filler, no matter what anyone says, and Prince agrees, he kept playing it regularly up to and including his last tour)



eek eek I don't believe that.


As the other poster said she meant it wasn't a key track on the album, it was "filler" in the sense that if he wrote a better song in the same vein he would have replaced it. Sure didn't Play In the Sunshine itself replace Its A Wonderful Day in an earlier draft? Doesn't make Its a Wonderful Day a bad song. Some of my fav Prince songs wouldn't be key songs on an album, I like hearing him give himself some space and not be busy obsessing about whatever that weeks mega-concept was.
[Edited 5/6/17 16:31pm]
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Reply #86 posted 05/06/17 4:33pm

BeatofBlackWin
gs

jaawwnn said:

214 said:

eek eek I don't believe that.

As the other poster said she meant it wasn't a key track on the album, it was "filler" in the sense that if he wrote a better song in the same vein he would have replaced it. Sure didn't Play In the Sunshine itself replace Its A Wonderful Day in an earlier draft? Doesn't make Its a Wonderful Day a bad song. Some of my fav Prince songs wouldn't be key songs on an album, I like hearing him give himself some space and not be busy obsessing about whatever that weeks mega-concept was. [Edited 5/6/17 16:31pm]

No, but Play in the Sunshine is a genius song. To believe he didn't feel strongly about it is a hard pill to swallow. He even chose to perform this song live on MTV, which is a heavy mantle for a song to wear, imo. Another one of those comments by Susan Rogers that leaves a WTF taste in one's mouth (kinda like her critique of Adonis and Bathsheba).

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Reply #87 posted 05/06/17 4:46pm

jaawwnn

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BeatofBlackWings said:



jaawwnn said:


214 said:


eek eek I don't believe that.



As the other poster said she meant it wasn't a key track on the album, it was "filler" in the sense that if he wrote a better song in the same vein he would have replaced it. Sure didn't Play In the Sunshine itself replace Its A Wonderful Day in an earlier draft? Doesn't make Its a Wonderful Day a bad song. Some of my fav Prince songs wouldn't be key songs on an album, I like hearing him give himself some space and not be busy obsessing about whatever that weeks mega-concept was. [Edited 5/6/17 16:31pm]


No, but Play in the Sunshine is a genius song. To believe he didn't feel strongly about it is a hard pill to swallow. He even chose to perform this song live on MTV, which is a heavy mantle for a song to wear, imo. Another one of those comments by Susan Rogers that leaves a WTF taste in one's mouth (kinda like her critique of Adonis and Bathsheba).


She never said it wasnt genius. I think its pretty clear that it's not a pillar of SOTT the album. When was the last time he played it live? Its something he did in 1987 and then never touched again. More's the pity because its a great song but it was never a single or something he brought out again in the 30 odd years of touring he did after. Compare that to the tracks either side of it...

As for Adonis & Bathsheba, she has said it's the ONLY song she didn't think was absolute genius in her entire time working with him. Hell I think it's genius and other songs she worked on I'd be iffy about, its just opinion. Besides, I can see where she's coming from even if I disagree.
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Reply #88 posted 05/06/17 5:01pm

BeatofBlackWin
gs

jaawwnn said:

BeatofBlackWings said:

No, but Play in the Sunshine is a genius song. To believe he didn't feel strongly about it is a hard pill to swallow. He even chose to perform this song live on MTV, which is a heavy mantle for a song to wear, imo. Another one of those comments by Susan Rogers that leaves a WTF taste in one's mouth (kinda like her critique of Adonis and Bathsheba).

She never said it wasnt genius. I think its pretty clear that it's not a pillar of SOTT the album. When was the last time he played it live? Its something he did in 1987 and then never touched again. More's the pity because its a great song but it was never a single or something he brought out again in the 30 odd years of touring he did after. Compare that to the tracks either side of it...
As for Adonis & Bathsheba, she has said it's the ONLY song she didn't think was absolute genius in her entire time working with him. Hell I think it's genius and other songs she worked on I'd be iffy about, its just opinion. Besides, I can see where she's coming from even if I disagree.

I guess I have a soft spot for PITS that I never had for Housequake. To me, it's totally a pillar of the album because it sets the lighter tone for the rest of the material. The title track was always a rather heavy anthem to start the album with and most of the material after it has this airy, light feel. I dunno. Opinionzzzz.

.

I can see she doesn't always like his grand gestures. Even some posters here thought the guitar solos drowned out what made the song magical to them (his harmonies) which is another opinion I don't vibe with. I don't always agree with Susan's opinions and that's cool.

.

But, circling back to the topic of fillers, I think it is more that Prince wasn't really sure what should come after SOTT. I mean, those songs were shuffled all around the tracklist from Dream Factory on. Could it work? Maybe. Could something else work in its place and we put PITS further into the album? Maybe. But "filler"? It's no doubt he intended on releasing that song because it was one of the few that survived every single track culling it was ever put against from the time it was ever placed on a record.

.

Edit: You'll also notice that Prince often stayed away from deep Revolution/W&L tracks live. We don't see iconic W&L/S collabs like Do U Lie, Starfish & Coffee, Slow Love, I Wonder U, Christopher Tracy's Parade, The Ladder, etc very much live after their release years either. It's not surprising he stayed away from PITS as well - it has a pretty iconic Revolution vibe to it despite it being just him and Susannah.

[Edited 5/6/17 17:04pm]

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Reply #89 posted 05/06/17 5:13pm

liljojo

RodeoSchro said:


I am talking about officially released songs on offically released albums ONLY.

Honestly, I don't think so. There's no song he's ever done that I have heard where I listened to it and thought, "Meh. He did this in about 30 minutes".

Every released song I've listened to (which is all of them, I hope) has many elements in it that reflects a lot of thought and inspiration.

The only song I can even remotely think of as a quickly-done filler cut is "Zannalee" but even that song was given the vioce-over treatment. So I don't consider even that song as "filler".

How about you? Anything you think of as filler?




Rodeo, that humanly impossible lol I'm sure there's songs out there you haven't heard yet. Everytime I think I've heard all of them after 20yrs of listening to Prince, it's always another song/songs I missed. I gave up it's just too many. But to answer the question I do feel like he's made filler songs starting with Christopher Tracey's Parade, Ronnie, Talk to Russia, and some others. Not saying the songs are bad just feel like filler to me.

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