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Forums > Prince: Music and More > Deliverance has exposed a deep schism on the org.
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Reply #120 posted 04/23/17 11:28pm

jaypotton

DD55 said:



jaypotton said:


DD55 said:



If you don't get your money you put a carpenter’s lien on the house, registered at the county office. So when the owner goes to sell the house, you get your money first! That’s why title companies do title searches to check for outstanding liens.


EXACTLY...there is a legal due process to follow to get your money. In my analogy the decorator is stealing the house.

Ok take your analogy and make it a general contractor putting an additoin on your house. If yiou don't pay, and a lien is put on you're house.... the contractor in essence 'ownes' a piece of the house, because when you sell, he gets his money before you get any equity you've built up. The GC is not stealing, he's getting his money/payment.



Yep but the contractor cannot sell just that part of your house. He recoups when the whole house is sold.

Ergo Ian Boxill should have followed due process of law and put in a claim against Prince/the estate to get his money not try to sell assets he does not own the copyright of!

Assuming of course he has evidence of not being paid?
'I loved him then, I love him now and will love him eternally. He's with our son now.' Mayte 21st April 2016 = the saddest quote I have ever read! RIP Prince and thanks for everything.
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Reply #121 posted 04/24/17 9:58am

Se7en

avatar

jaypotton said:

MMJas said:

Agree. That wa my first thought, because, let's face it, that sopund engineer could have simply filled in court to get paid any moneys due. He took a huge risk by putting this out there, everybody knows the Estate would fall hard on anyone doing something like this. I think this was carefully planned, for some reason.

I hadn't considered this but can a) understand the appeal of this theory to some a Prince fans and b) see how it could be the sort of thing Prince planned except... These are songs from a decade ago. That would require some amazing foresight by Prince into what he wanted to do with those songs in future AND know he was going to die but not for another ten years!? So I don't buy it even though I can understand the appeal to some. As such I have to say I think this is more a case of post rationalisation to justify why some have bought it even though they know it is wrong! Just my opinion obviously!


The reason the single is still up on iTunes, etc. is that it was already offered up as a download when you pre-ordered the EP. It was already "out there".

The remaining songs weren't available yet -- and now, after the court order, won't be.

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Reply #122 posted 04/24/17 12:05pm

jaypotton

Se7en said:



jaypotton said:


MMJas said:



Agree. That wa my first thought, because, let's face it, that sopund engineer could have simply filled in court to get paid any moneys due. He took a huge risk by putting this out there, everybody knows the Estate would fall hard on anyone doing something like this. I think this was carefully planned, for some reason.



I hadn't considered this but can a) understand the appeal of this theory to some a Prince fans and b) see how it could be the sort of thing Prince planned except... These are songs from a decade ago. That would require some amazing foresight by Prince into what he wanted to do with those songs in future AND know he was going to die but not for another ten years!? So I don't buy it even though I can understand the appeal to some. As such I have to say I think this is more a case of post rationalisation to justify why some have bought it even though they know it is wrong! Just my opinion obviously!


The reason the single is still up on iTunes, etc. is that it was already offered up as a download when you pre-ordered the EP. It was already "out there".

The remaining songs weren't available yet -- and now, after the court order, won't be.



I know. But what has that got to do with what I said above?
'I loved him then, I love him now and will love him eternally. He's with our son now.' Mayte 21st April 2016 = the saddest quote I have ever read! RIP Prince and thanks for everything.
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Reply #123 posted 04/25/17 10:10am

Curt

jaypotton said:

TheEnglishGent said:


Official is anything released, or authorised for release, by the estate. There's no argumet against that. You seem to be talking about quality and Ian's release certainly fits the definition of a quality release.

Seriously eek Prince signed a contract with Warner Bros Records in 2014 where he (and now his estate) had ownership of the master tapes but WBR had the exclusive distribution rights (with as we now know different terms for some albums such as Purple Rain). This covered all the previously released material up to 1995 and it now appears also the vault recordings made during the same period. That means anything released by WBR is OFFICIAL. The estate signed a deal with Universal Records for everything since 1996 (though that deal currently looks in jeopardy). Therefore anything Universal releases is OFFICIAL. No other releases by any other outlet are official. Period! Being official has nothing to do with quality (sadly). What Ian Boxill has done is no better than a bootleg (albeit of superior quality). Edit: Oops looks like I am replying to Englishgent but I am replying to curt [Edited 4/21/17 6:56am]

Jay, you said the following: " Official releases should be curated properly and released with the care, quality and attention Prince's legacy deserves. To do that people need to be paid (record company and estate) to ensure it remains a viable business so the releases keep flowing (but we need to realise the law of diminishing returns)"

Based on your definition, the Deliverance release met your standard and that he is the one that deserved to be paid. THEN, you say that only a WBR or Universal release is considered official. I just think your definition, which had nothing to do with the estate, contradicts your statements which now interject the estate's intentions as a precursor to being labeled "official".

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Reply #124 posted 04/25/17 10:44am

jaypotton

Curt said:



jaypotton said:


TheEnglishGent said:



Official is anything released, or authorised for release, by the estate. There's no argumet against that. You seem to be talking about quality and Ian's release certainly fits the definition of a quality release.



Seriously eek Prince signed a contract with Warner Bros Records in 2014 where he (and now his estate) had ownership of the master tapes but WBR had the exclusive distribution rights (with as we now know different terms for some albums such as Purple Rain). This covered all the previously released material up to 1995 and it now appears also the vault recordings made during the same period. That means anything released by WBR is OFFICIAL. The estate signed a deal with Universal Records for everything since 1996 (though that deal currently looks in jeopardy). Therefore anything Universal releases is OFFICIAL. No other releases by any other outlet are official. Period! Being official has nothing to do with quality (sadly). What Ian Boxill has done is no better than a bootleg (albeit of superior quality). Edit: Oops looks like I am replying to Englishgent but I am replying to curt [Edited 4/21/17 6:56am]



Jay, you said the following: " Official releases should be curated properly and released with the care, quality and attention Prince's legacy deserves. To do that people need to be paid (record company and estate) to ensure it remains a viable business so the releases keep flowing (but we need to realise the law of diminishing returns)"



Based on your definition, the Deliverance release met your standard and that he is the one that deserved to be paid. THEN, you say that only a WBR or Universal release is considered official. I just think your definition, which had nothing to do with the estate, contradicts your statements which now interject the estate's intentions as a precursor to being labeled "official".



You are quoting out of context. I have clearly said only the copyright holder has the right to release material (or licence the material to be released). Quality should be a given however, just because an unofficial release is of good quality doesn't make it official. Back in the say some of the sabotage and eye records releases were good quality but still clearly unofficial!
[Edited 4/25/17 11:11am]
'I loved him then, I love him now and will love him eternally. He's with our son now.' Mayte 21st April 2016 = the saddest quote I have ever read! RIP Prince and thanks for everything.
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