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Thread started 06/17/16 11:41am

rusty1

Prince's life was Forever changed in 1996

I've been looking at those interviews after Prince & Mayte's baby died..
What should've been the happiest time of their lives turned into total devastation.
I just keep thinking what if Prince's baby would've lived & had been totally healthy.
I don't think he would've became a JW.
Secondly, no addiction to pills because Prince gets that hip surgery done.
Prince's path might've lead his life & music in a totally different direction.

Prince was so down after the baby died that he needed somewhere to turn..
He was lost & vulnerable which lead to his health & mind set to be forever changed.
Then again, if he didn't become a JW at that time.
Prince probably might've turned to drugs in 1997.

I don't know. It took me until now to realise that 1996 started out as the most joyful period in his life..
Then took the saddest turn in Oct of 1996..
His life would never be the same again..

When i saw him at Roseland in NYC..
Jan of 97 he seemed very happy & upbeat..
But looking back on it, Prince was really in deep pain & in denial.
BOB4theFUNK
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Reply #1 posted 06/17/16 11:51am

Bunsterdk

rusty1 said:

I've been looking at those interviews after Prince & Mayte's baby died..
What should've been the happiest time of their lives turned into total devastation.
I just keep thinking what if Prince's baby would've lived & had been totally healthy.
I don't think he would've became a JW.
Secondly, no addiction to pills because Prince gets that hip surgery done.
Prince's path might've lead his life & music in a totally different direction.

Prince was so down after the baby died that he needed somewhere to turn..
He was lost & vulnerable which lead to his health & mind set to be forever changed.
Then again, if he didn't become a JW at that time.
Prince probably might've turned to drugs in 1997.

I don't know. It took me until now to realise that 1996 started out as the most joyful period in his life..
Then took the saddest turn in Oct of 1996..
His life would never be the same again..

When i saw him at Roseland in NYC..
Jan of 97 he seemed very happy & upbeat..
But looking back on it, Prince was really in deep pain & in denial.


Being a JW didn't keep him from having the surgery. Jury is apparently still out over whether or not he did have it and it just didn't solve the problem. Surgery is not always successful.

If he only became JW as a reaction to his son's death, he'd have left long ago. He waa a grown man who knew what he wanted and went for it. More than most people. His personal choices should be respected, imho.

If you have more questions on his faith I can recommend jw.org. It won't make you a jw, but it will give you accurate information about them. biggrin
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Reply #2 posted 06/17/16 12:02pm

suomynona

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That's true, his life did change in 1996. His life changed every year of his life. Everything led to the person he became.

One could argue, if the child had lived, if he hadn't became a JW, if Tony M hadn't ruined 3 of his records... but all of those things changed Prince, for better or worse.

It's like saying -- if so-and-so hadn't fumbled the football, a touchdown would have been scored. Well, the defense might have stepped up and stopped the team and forced them to punt/attempt a field goal. And even the fumble affected the rest of the game -- not just that play alone.

Maybe we would've never had the music that followed, and had different music entirely.

Once a time machine is created, we can go back and alter his and Mayté's genes so that the baby would have been born healthy. And retroactively made it so Larry Graham never met Prince. Then, after we come back to 2016 and have fixed everything so Prince happily lives ever after -- we instead read Prince died in a horrendous car accident in 1997. So we lose out on Prince, and all that he created during the time between his son's death and April 21, 2016.

I understand where you're coming from, but it's kind of like saying "I wish I wasn't born to my parents because they're assholes." Well, then you -- who you are -- wouldn't have been born.

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Reply #3 posted 06/17/16 12:04pm

emesem

Yep. Always thought this (and then the dissolution of his relationship with Mayte) is where Prince when down a dark path.

I dont think he really got out of this funk till at least 2004 if not till just recently.


and even though he seem a lot more positive in his most recent incarnation, he really was never the same after this sad day.

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Reply #4 posted 06/17/16 12:21pm

Bunsterdk

emesem said:

Yep. Always thought this (and then the dissolution of his relationship with Mayte) is where Prince when down a dark path.



I dont think he really got out of this funk till at least 2004 if not till just recently.



and even though he seem a lot more positive in his most recent incarnation, he really was never the same after this sad day.





Of course not. It changes a person forever. So very tragic for both of them. He wasn't miserable the rest of his life by any means, but you don't get over the loss of a child. Much less two. His faith taught him that he'd get them back, but the pain remains strong.
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Reply #5 posted 06/17/16 12:21pm

Superfan1984

Tony didn't ruin three of his records and Prince wouldn't have "turned to drugs in 1997" --- I don't think Prince ever had any interest in drugs- he was only on them for pain management and I'm sure the pain got to be unbearable.
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Reply #6 posted 06/17/16 12:21pm

Krystalkisses

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I think he did not let Mayte grieve the death of her son properly. His method of denial should not have been imposed on her. I could not imagine what she was going through..as a mother not only are you psychologicaly commited to your baby but your hormones are all over the place. When I gave birth to my son it is amazing how biology implores you to fiercely feel tied to your newborn. Those Post Partum interviews Mayte did and filming the video to Betcha By Golly...I don't see how Mayte could keep it together for all of that. Who knows if she was even allowed to express her feelings or get the therapy she needed.

On Hollywood Exes she was in therapy and broke down when the therapist acknowledged that she is a mother, a mother who lost her child. She said she never "felt" like a mother and needed to hear that.

I felt devestated for the both of them. Prince did seem angry and hostile in the late 90s early 2000s in interviews. I'm sure loosing his son had a lot to do with it. After he married Mani he seemed happier again and especially around the Musicology era. smile But I agree he was probably forever changed after that experience.

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Reply #7 posted 06/17/16 12:22pm

peedub

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suomynona said:



It's like saying -- if so-and-so hadn't fumbled the football, a touchdown would have been scored. Well, the defense might have stepped up and stopped the team and forced them to punt/attempt a field goal. And even the fumble affected the rest of the game -- not just that play alone.




hasn't earnest byner suffered enough, now we gotta blame p's death on the poor guy? c'mON...

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Reply #8 posted 06/17/16 1:19pm

morningsong

rusty1 said:

I've been looking at those interviews after Prince & Mayte's baby died.. What should've been the happiest time of their lives turned into total devastation. I just keep thinking what if Prince's baby would've lived & had been totally healthy. I don't think he would've became a JW. Secondly, no addiction to pills because Prince gets that hip surgery done. Prince's path might've lead his life & music in a totally different direction. Prince was so down after the baby died that he needed somewhere to turn.. He was lost & vulnerable which lead to his health & mind set to be forever changed. Then again, if he didn't become a JW at that time. Prince probably might've turned to drugs in 1997. I don't know. It took me until now to realise that 1996 started out as the most joyful period in his life.. Then took the saddest turn in Oct of 1996.. His life would never be the same again.. When i saw him at Roseland in NYC.. Jan of 97 he seemed very happy & upbeat.. But looking back on it, Prince was really in deep pain & in denial.



I'm a bit confused on that part. What I've read, he was already starting JW teachings before his child was born. Not sure if that's true or not. If it is, then he still may have became one probably not as hitting others upside the head with it as much, but still you really can't tell, because I think Prince puts his whole self into whatever he does.

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Reply #9 posted 06/17/16 1:34pm

anangellooksdo
wn

What ifs...we all have 'em.
Nothing in God's plan is a mistake.
Prince is with his loved ones now and has transcended.
I'm sad but I can't question God.
And it is not my place to say things should have been different. It is my place to accept it and make sure I'm dealing with my own life's grief.
Yep, pain sucks. But it's part of life. Prince knew that.
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Reply #10 posted 06/17/16 1:49pm

RenaRF

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suomynona said:

That's true, his life did change in 1996. His life changed every year of his life. Everything led to the person he became.

One could argue, if the child had lived, if he hadn't became a JW, if Tony M hadn't ruined 3 of his records... but all of those things changed Prince, for better or worse.



I find this very apt. And there are many interviews where Prince discusses his disagreements with Warner Brothers after the situation was resolved, where he references that he actually really loves those guys because he couldn't get to where he was at that moment unless he had been through what he went through with Warner Brothers. I always found him very grounded in his consideration about the past, and about how events always shape you into becoming who you are in the present.
"Everything that's in your heart, come what may
Even though his might get broken" RIP Prince
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Reply #11 posted 06/17/16 2:00pm

anangellooksdo
wn

RenaRF said:

suomynona said:

That's true, his life did change in 1996. His life changed every year of his life. Everything led to the person he became.

One could argue, if the child had lived, if he hadn't became a JW, if Tony M hadn't ruined 3 of his records... but all of those things changed Prince, for better or worse.



I find this very apt. And there are many interviews where Prince discusses his disagreements with Warner Brothers after the situation was resolved, where he references that he actually really loves those guys because he couldn't get to where he was at that moment unless he had been through what he went through with Warner Brothers. I always found him very grounded in his consideration about the past, and about how events always shape you into becoming who you are in the present.


Yup. He was wise. I think Larry graham and the JW religion helped him a lot in many ways in life.
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Reply #12 posted 06/17/16 2:09pm

CROWNS1

He was a very complex person. Made for some interesting music. I doubt he would have chosen a different path in life.

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Reply #13 posted 06/17/16 8:40pm

paisleyparkgir
l

I admire him for staying strong and keep going despite all the pain.

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Reply #14 posted 06/17/16 9:13pm

farnorth

I can't help but feel you are right about this, and it's tragic.

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Reply #15 posted 06/17/16 9:29pm

CaptnCrunchSoy
Milk

He was absolutely in denial and was trying to fool himself into believing he was perfectly fine. In 97, 98 and 99 interviews, he used humor more and more, but it often came off as mockery to the point of often sounding like a jerk. In 99, when his marriage was ending or over, he constantly talked about how happy he was. He was fooling himself. You could feel a passive agressive tone in his interviews. It's sad. He looked so happy with Mayte. Then he replaced her with God and religious nonesense. I guess it was his therapy.
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Reply #16 posted 06/17/16 10:07pm

suomynona

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Superfan1984 said:

...he was only on them for pain management and I'm sure the pain got to be unbearable.


Well, I'm glad you have this inside knowledge that literally no one else knew other than him.

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Reply #17 posted 06/18/16 6:21am

ksgemini63

One person's nonsense and pain is not the same to another I am not a JW but have my own beliefs and respect that on some level his faith may have given him comfort. As for physical pain...I was told but someone at PP it actually was excruciating but not to be talked about...as I said after 3 failed cervical fusions I have at least an idea I dont take pain killers but can easily see how someone might after-in my case 72 hours of pain with no sleep..often. ...I agree his loss in 96 was seemingly a very painful event that probably did change him forever. Robert Plant has referenced his own loss and the agony of it(He lost his 7 year old boy in 1977 or 78)... and I can not imagine what it is like. Lots of caring people here but a lot of speculation and a little judgement once in a while and the truth is only Prince knew his own pain and spiritual walk...I am not experiencing any "lack of closure" or desire for morbid details just some loss and a lot of joy from the sounds he left us with. PS I think becoming a JW was his mother's dying wish so it may have happened with or without the tragedy.

[Edited 6/18/16 6:23am]

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Reply #18 posted 06/18/16 6:43am

sunset3121

I don't think Prince would have changed much in his life except for his family problems:


"If had the chance to do it all again
I wouldn't change a thing, except my next of kin
There's something on the tip of my tongue
-got a taste for sin
If you stamp your passport full of regret
You have nothing to remember but a lot to forget"

The loss of a baby makes a huge hole in your heart. It will have been much worse for Mayte than P because she was carrying that child moving inside her, gave birth and went through all the trauma afterwards but then she would continue producing milk with no baby to feed and her hormones would have been all over the place. She then had a husband who had so many issues of his own to deal with - a husband that didn't even let her ring him for christs sake (mind you, you can't say she didn't know what she was letting herself in for - the whole world had a good idea what he was like).

P in his controlling way probably thought his way of dealing with things was best but I doubt it was for Mayte. The poor woman didn't even accept she was a mother. It's not like you feel any less for a baby in the first week of its life than when they are older. I have not lost any older children as a comparison but the loss of my baby hurt like hell. It really shook me up for a while.

However, after a time, you pick yourself up and get on with life. What worries me about P is his religion. He seemed to read a lot of meaning into events in his life. As much of a source of comfort as religion can be, it can also be judgemental and condemning. I hope he didn't read any meaning into the loss of Ahmir.

I hope not. He already seemed to be searching for a different way of life when he married Mayte. He didn't seem to be cut out for a close family life though. I don't think he knew how it should work.

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Reply #19 posted 06/19/16 6:35pm

PurpleHeartBre
ak

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I agree that if Prince hadnt been in a vulnerable place in his life after the tragic death of his first baby, followed by the death of his mother who reportedly stated her only dying wish was for Prince to convert to the JW's as she had already done, along with his close friend Larry Graham pushing it on him as well, he may still be here. He couldn't have another hip surgery without a blood transfusion because the surgery he had in 2010
required a blood transfusion, but Prince refused it, which left him anemic. Before he died, he needed both hips done and most definitely would have required a blood transfusion. If only he had never converted!
"Str8 PurpleMack Baby♥"
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Reply #20 posted 06/19/16 7:11pm

rusty1

Thanks Larry Graham
BOB4theFUNK
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Reply #21 posted 06/19/16 7:45pm

oceancrayon

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anangellooksdown said:

What ifs...we all have 'em.
Nothing in God's plan is a mistake.
Prince is with his loved ones now and has transcended.
I'm sad but I can't question God.
And it is not my place to say things should have been different. It is my place to accept it and make sure I'm dealing with my own life's grief.
Yep, pain sucks. But it's part of life. Prince knew that.


Even though I do believe in God's Plan, I also believe that we have a part in it as well. He gave us free thought, and with that the decision to follow his Plan or not. I don't want to sound like a negative creep, but I feel like God sent him a warning with the emergency plane landing incident, and he chose to ignore the warning. neutral Damn it, Prince!!

But getting back to topic, I recall reading a story where Prince's mother on her deathbed pleaded with him to accept Jehovah into his heart. Which I'm sure left a heavy impact if true. Anybody got any more info on that?
. <3 Prince <3
For You - Big City
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Reply #22 posted 06/20/16 12:42am

Bunsterdk

PurpleHeartBreak said:

I agree that if Prince hadnt been in a vulnerable place in his life after the tragic death of his first baby, followed by the death of his mother who reportedly stated her only dying wish was for Prince to convert to the JW's as she had already done, along with his close friend Larry Graham pushing it on him as well, he may still be here. He couldn't have another hip surgery without a blood transfusion because the surgery he had in 2010
required a blood transfusion, but Prince refused it, which left him anemic. Before he died, he needed both hips done and most definitely would have required a blood transfusion
. If only he had never converted!


No-one is anemic for years after surgery because they didn't get a blood transfusion. There are plenty of ways to get your blood count back up and if you are otherwise healthy, your body will do it automatically. Look into the non-Tour de France related uses of EPO for instance. ;-)

I would actually very much like to see your source for this detailed "knowledge" of Prince's medical history?

Not approving of his personal choices is fine. I don't really care about that and I know Prince certainly wouldn't have. biggrin He never let anyone dictate what he could or could not do.

We are all trying to come to terms with Prince leaving us so suddenly, and feeling anger over a non-issue such as this is really futile. His JW friends mourn him much more than we do as they knew him personally. Being angry at them for causing his death because of some faulty reasoning is just downright not fair.

I give these links solely as information to those who are interested in educating themselves and getting the facts straight about bloodless surgery. No attempt is made at converting anyone here, but the issue keeps popping up and I don't really want to fill up the thread with this information when it is available elsewhere for those interested. It's been a while since I watched it, so I don't know if it mentions hip replacement, but here are non-jw medical professionals explaining the issue of blood/no blood:

https://www.jw.org/finder...rcid=share

https://www.jw.org/finder...rcid=share

https://www.jw.org/finder...rcid=share
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Reply #23 posted 06/20/16 11:00am

PurpleHeartBre
ak

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Bunsterdk said:

PurpleHeartBreak said:
I agree that if Prince hadnt been in a vulnerable place in his life after the tragic death of his first baby, followed by the death of his mother who reportedly stated her only dying wish was for Prince to convert to the JW's as she had already done, along with his close friend Larry Graham pushing it on him as well, he may still be here. He couldn't have another hip surgery without a blood transfusion because the surgery he had in 2010 required a blood transfusion, but Prince refused it, which left him anemic. Before he died, he needed both hips done and most definitely would have required a blood transfusion. If only he had never converted!
No-one is anemic for years after surgery because they didn't get a blood transfusion. There are plenty of ways to get your blood count back up and if you are otherwise healthy, your body will do it automatically. Look into the non-Tour de France related uses of EPO for instance. wink I would actually very much like to see your source for this detailed "knowledge" of Prince's medical history? Not approving of his personal choices is fine. I don't really care about that and I know Prince certainly wouldn't have. biggrin He never let anyone dictate what he could or could not do. We are all trying to come to terms with Prince leaving us so suddenly, and feeling anger over a non-issue such as this is really futile. His JW friends mourn him much more than we do as they knew him personally. Being angry at them for causing his death because of some faulty reasoning is just downright not fair. I give these links solely as information to those who are interested in educating themselves and getting the facts straight about bloodless surgery. No attempt is made at converting anyone here, but the issue keeps popping up and I don't really want to fill up the thread with this information when it is available elsewhere for those interested. It's been a while since I watched it, so I don't know if it mentions hip replacement, but here are non-jw medical professionals explaining the issue of blood/no blood: https://www.jw.org/finder...rcid=share https://www.jw.org/finder...rcid=share https://www.jw.org/finder...rcid=share

I work in healthcare. I didn't say the first surgery in 2010 left him anemic for life, but as a vegeterian (and a thin one at that) I'm sure he would have had to have another blood transfusion if he had the left hip redone. Read the autopsy report, it tells of where the scar is. Ive done my research and wouldn't repeat anything unless it was factual. You can do your own research if need be, but I don't need any info on the JW's....Im aware. We'll leave it at that.

"Str8 PurpleMack Baby♥"
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Reply #24 posted 06/20/16 11:28am

Bunsterdk

PurpleHeartBreak said:


I work in healthcare. I didn't say the first surgery in 2010 left him anemic for life, but as a vegeterian (and a thin one at that) I'm sure he would have had to have another blood transfusion if he had the left hip redone. Read the autopsy report, it tells of where the scar is. Ive done my research and wouldn't repeat anything unless it was factual. You can do your own research if need be, but I don't need any info on the JW's....Im aware. We'll leave it at that.



Obviously not, but that's your choice. Factually, the mention of a scar tells us that he either had something done or was somehow injured. At some point in his life. Nothing else. It does not tell us whether he had hip surgery or when, if he needed a blood transfusion, was anamic, needed a double hip replacement now and whatever else you have chosen to read into it. I am sorry, but you are only guessing like anybody else.

Lemme give you an alternative version of the scar just for the exercise.. He had the surgery and it wasn't a success, actually made the pain worse, so he decided against having surgery again. Just as plausible as your version, but the bottom line is that we just don't know and probably never will. It's none of our business anyway and we certainly don't have the right to blame named individuals for his death based on guessing about a scar.

He was known for making his own choices and going his own way. I don't recognise the feeble-minded individual you are describing, unable to think for himself or make informed decisions, just doing what his friends told him to do. Prince? Hardly. cool
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Reply #25 posted 06/20/16 11:37am

CROWNS1

That whole STAUROS thing was so over the top. "someone lied about how someone died". I never did get why it was so important to him whether Jesus was on a cross or a stake and why he took it as a conspiracy theory? Didn't really matter, I love The Cross. I'm not a fan of religion, it makes people crazy and someone like Prince getting into religion, especially one where you have to go door to door was just odd.

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Reply #26 posted 06/20/16 12:13pm

IvoryTower

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Bunsterdk said:

rusty1 said:
I've been looking at those interviews after Prince & Mayte's baby died.. What should've been the happiest time of their lives turned into total devastation. I just keep thinking what if Prince's baby would've lived & had been totally healthy. I don't think he would've became a JW. Secondly, no addiction to pills because Prince gets that hip surgery done. Prince's path might've lead his life & music in a totally different direction. Prince was so down after the baby died that he needed somewhere to turn.. He was lost & vulnerable which lead to his health & mind set to be forever changed. Then again, if he didn't become a JW at that time. Prince probably might've turned to drugs in 1997. I don't know. It took me until now to realise that 1996 started out as the most joyful period in his life.. Then took the saddest turn in Oct of 1996.. His life would never be the same again.. When i saw him at Roseland in NYC.. Jan of 97 he seemed very happy & upbeat.. But looking back on it, Prince was really in deep pain & in denial.
Being a JW didn't keep him from having the surgery. Jury is apparently still out over whether or not he did have it and it just didn't solve the problem. Surgery is not always successful. If he only became JW as a reaction to his son's death, he'd have left long ago. He waa a grown man who knew what he wanted and went for it. More than most people. His personal choices should be respected, imho. If you have more questions on his faith I can recommend jw.org. It won't make you a jw, but it will give you accurate information about them. biggrin

The autopsy report states that he had a large surgigal scar on his left hift. Billy Sparks also confirmed in an interview that he did have hip repair surgery (not hip replacement). There's a video of he and Bria Valente, dressed beautifully in grey somewhere in Europe and as he walks away you can see the slight tight limp on his left side. So he did have some sort of surgery on his hip.

Cum swallow the pride and joy...
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Reply #27 posted 06/20/16 12:27pm

lastdecember

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I think the major thing that most forget, PRINCE was a human being who actually had flaws, problems, good days and probably some really bad ones. He had a past that maybe and most likely he carried with him like we all do. Just because you sing and dance and play every instrument and get lots of women does not mean you are "exempt" from problems or that you have the answers. I feel like anyone else Prince was growing older, feeling like it too, Life changes when you start to hit later 40's and then 50's for all we know he was feeling this even before. The thing is we will NEVER know for sure what he felt, or thought. No matter who says Prince was this or that, its all guess work cause the person is not here.


"We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F
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Reply #28 posted 06/20/16 12:45pm

ksgemini63

lastdecember said:

I think the major thing that most forget, PRINCE was a human being who actually had flaws, problems, good days and probably some really bad ones. He had a past that maybe and most likely he carried with him like we all do. Just because you sing and dance and play every instrument and get lots of women does not mean you are "exempt" from problems or that you have the answers. I feel like anyone else Prince was growing older, feeling like it too, Life changes when you start to hit later 40's and then 50's for all we know he was feeling this even before. The thing is we will NEVER know for sure what he felt, or thought. No matter who says Prince was this or that, its all guess work cause the person is not here.

Well said and are details of his mother's deathbed our business anyway... as some like to speculate on that topic....

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