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Reply #120 posted 06/13/16 11:03am

Eileen

XxAxX said:

i think we already talked about all that, if not up above then over on the paisley park thread

anyway, i would also - like you - like to know why an emergency request for tax relief/extension has not been filed.


i'd like to hear from the attorneys handling this issue which won't happen so


Whew. I can do something with this except that attorney thing. Which I see you now asked for again, although I haven't posted this yet. But here are my speculations anyway, which you might already know.


I haven't even looked this up but...

- normally you have until the filing deadline to file for an extension

- so they probably have 9 months before the extension has to be filed

- normally an extension is just that, a fairly simple I haven't filed yet, I'll take the 6 more months please
- that's probably true with estate tax extensions as well, it's probably not an emergency-anything
- extensions don't grant tax relief, as noted prev. interest still accrues on taxes not paid by the due date... they're just about the paperwork and when extra financial penalties might be assessed


Agree btw, I've also appreciated most of the attorney-chiming-in that I've seen on a couple of these threads... BanishedBrian and a few others.

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Reply #121 posted 06/13/16 11:13am

XxAxX

avatar

Eileen said:

XxAxX said:

i think we already talked about all that, if not up above then over on the paisley park thread

anyway, i would also - like you - like to know why an emergency request for tax relief/extension has not been filed.


i'd like to hear from the attorneys handling this issue which won't happen so


Whew. I can do something with this except that attorney thing. Which I see you now asked for again, although I haven't posted this yet. But here are my speculations anyway, which you might already know.


I haven't even looked this up but...

- normally you have until the filing deadline to file for an extension

- so they probably have 9 months before the extension has to be filed

- normally an extension is just that, a fairly simple I haven't filed yet, I'll take the 6 more months please
- that's probably true with estate tax extensions as well, it's probably not an emergency-anything
- extensions don't grant tax relief, as noted prev. interest still accrues on taxes not paid by the due date... they're just about the paperwork and when extra financial penalties might be assessed


Agree btw, I've also appreciated most of the attorney-chiming-in that I've seen on a couple of these threads... BanishedBrian and a few others.

so that's the point i brought up earlier, given either with the nine month period you reference or the january 2017 deadline referenced by another orger - either way and whichever the true deadline for payment of prince's estate taxes -in my opinion there is no conceivable reason to rush into the sale of prince's assets.

.

you seem to agree with me that tax court will be very lenient in granting an emergency or other extension to prince's heirs. so where is the rush?

.

to clarify, i'm asking this question because on another thread, we are discussing the tineline of the sale of Paisley park, which is allegedly 'on the block' due to the need for payment of estate taxes.

.

perhaps it is simply bad reporting, but an article published recently in the star tribune allegedly quoted bremer as saying that they were considering all options for sale, including Paisley Park, in order to meet a tax obligation i cannot even believe is due yet.

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Reply #122 posted 06/13/16 11:52am

Eileen

XxAxX said:

so that's the point i brought up earlier, given either with the nine month period you reference or the january 2017 deadline referenced by another orger - either way and whichever the true deadline for payment of prince's estate taxes -in my opinion there is no conceivable reason to rush into the sale of prince's assets.

.

you seem to agree with me that tax court will be very lenient in granting an emergency or other extension to prince's heirs. so where is the rush?

.

to clarify, i'm asking this question because on another thread, we are discussing the tineline of the sale of Paisley park, which is allegedly 'on the block' due to the need for payment of estate taxes.

.

perhaps it is simply bad reporting, but an article published recently in the star tribune allegedly quoted bremer as saying that they were considering all options for sale, including Paisley Park, in order to meet a tax obligation i cannot even believe is due yet.


I don't believe the allegation that it's on the block unless Prince was so cash-poor that we would find it nearly as shocking as his death. Actually touring to literally keep the lights on at Paisley during the months he was touring.

This goes back a few posts to where I first mentioned the interest, etc. This article might be helpful - it's on underwithholding and when our taxes are actually due. While reading it keep in mind the recent massive sales of his catalogue.

http://www.bankrate.com/f...lding.aspx

And the other thing I mentioned - the attorney making his most extreme case in court to win the order against an opposing party. That's what they do right, it's considered normal in court. The other side had a decent argument, imo. In fact I was surprised they won the order until I thought through the tax obligation/issue further.

Legally the estate must consider all options to maximize the estate. If they calculated the future likely revenue from Paisley Park over X years against the amount of interest and penalties they'd accrue by not paying X percent of taxes by the end of the year, plus considered other lost opportunities due to money being tied up maintaining PP, etc., they could conceivably calculate that yeah, it should be sold to properly benefit the estate. They have a legal obligation to the best financial outcome.


Because of this, they can't possibly go to the probate court (esp. facing opposing counsel) and agree or argue that anything is off the table. They would be considered irresponsible and possibly lose this job.



Big disclaimers. Speculating. Just a blatherer. Not an attorney. Any real attorney, be kind in your corrections.

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Reply #123 posted 06/13/16 12:07pm

XxAxX

avatar

ok this may be a bit cynical of me. my hope is that all parties/potential beneficiaries will decide to retain their own 'experts' for their own individual valuations and/or proposals and tie each other up in cross-talk until the cows come home. if i know attorneys i betcha they will find just such a way to maximize their clients' respective interests wink which should hopefully keep things up in the air long enough for someone to figure out a plan B to substitute for selling the Park.

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Reply #124 posted 06/13/16 12:07pm

FlyOnTheWall

XxAxX said:

hw3004 said:

i don't get it - why would you want to pay the tax bill of Prince's estate?

.

the estate tax bill?

.

i;m not involved in handling this matter so i don't *know* what's giong o.

.

from what i understand, things are moving VERY quickly over in probate land. prince died seven weeks ago.

.

i'm not sure why, but apparently before any meaningful valuation can have been performed on prince's estate/assets, the government has allegedly demand $150 million dollars tax on what they have claimed is a $300 million estate.

.

to rephrase, before the government has actually counted prince's gold, they want half of what they think it will be.

.

in order to satisfy an alleged tax debt due in January of 2017, prince's estate must pay this alleged tax.

.

SEVEN WEEKS safter prince's deasth, and before a valuation of his assets can have been performed, the amount has been decided upon and demand for payment is being made? already the pressure is on to sell prince's stuff????

.

bullshit. this is robbery

I could not agree more. Something in the water does not compute.

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Reply #125 posted 06/13/16 12:09pm

FlyOnTheWall

mailaccount63 said:

FlyOnTheWall said:

The beauty of the online environment is that you consume what you like. Meaning, if there is a thread or content that you don't care for, you don't have to view it. It's a really simple concept.

[Edited 6/11/16 13:10pm]


yeahthat Thank you FlyOnTheWall.

thumbs up!

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Reply #126 posted 06/13/16 12:19pm

FlyOnTheWall

XxAxX said:

Eileen said:


Whew. I can do something with this except that attorney thing. Which I see you now asked for again, although I haven't posted this yet. But here are my speculations anyway, which you might already know.


I haven't even looked this up but...

- normally you have until the filing deadline to file for an extension

- so they probably have 9 months before the extension has to be filed

- normally an extension is just that, a fairly simple I haven't filed yet, I'll take the 6 more months please
- that's probably true with estate tax extensions as well, it's probably not an emergency-anything
- extensions don't grant tax relief, as noted prev. interest still accrues on taxes not paid by the due date... they're just about the paperwork and when extra financial penalties might be assessed


Agree btw, I've also appreciated most of the attorney-chiming-in that I've seen on a couple of these threads... BanishedBrian and a few others.

so that's the point i brought up earlier, given either with the nine month period you reference or the january 2017 deadline referenced by another orger - either way and whichever the true deadline for payment of prince's estate taxes -in my opinion there is no conceivable reason to rush into the sale of prince's assets.

.

you seem to agree with me that tax court will be very lenient in granting an emergency or other extension to prince's heirs. so where is the rush?

.

to clarify, i'm asking this question because on another thread, we are discussing the tineline of the sale of Paisley park, which is allegedly 'on the block' due to the need for payment of estate taxes.

.

perhaps it is simply bad reporting, but an article published recently in the star tribune allegedly quoted bremer as saying that they were considering all options for sale, including Paisley Park, in order to meet a tax obligation i cannot even believe is due yet.

I concur. This need for speed is alarming. It is a definite cause for pause...

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Reply #127 posted 06/13/16 12:21pm

FlyOnTheWall

XxAxX said:

Eileen said:


Whew. I can do something with this except that attorney thing. Which I see you now asked for again, although I haven't posted this yet. But here are my speculations anyway, which you might already know.


I haven't even looked this up but...

- normally you have until the filing deadline to file for an extension

- so they probably have 9 months before the extension has to be filed

- normally an extension is just that, a fairly simple I haven't filed yet, I'll take the 6 more months please
- that's probably true with estate tax extensions as well, it's probably not an emergency-anything
- extensions don't grant tax relief, as noted prev. interest still accrues on taxes not paid by the due date... they're just about the paperwork and when extra financial penalties might be assessed


Agree btw, I've also appreciated most of the attorney-chiming-in that I've seen on a couple of these threads... BanishedBrian and a few others.

so that's the point i brought up earlier, given either with the nine month period you reference or the january 2017 deadline referenced by another orger - either way and whichever the true deadline for payment of prince's estate taxes -in my opinion there is no conceivable reason to rush into the sale of prince's assets.

.

you seem to agree with me that tax court will be very lenient in granting an emergency or other extension to prince's heirs. so where is the rush?

.

to clarify, i'm asking this question because on another thread, we are discussing the tineline of the sale of Paisley park, which is allegedly 'on the block' due to the need for payment of estate taxes.

.

perhaps it is simply bad reporting, but an article published recently in the star tribune allegedly quoted bremer as saying that they were considering all options for sale, including Paisley Park, in order to meet a tax obligation i cannot even believe is due yet.

I concur. This need for speed is alarming. It is a definite cause for pause...

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Reply #128 posted 06/13/16 1:27pm

mailaccount63

FlyOnTheWall said:

XxAxX said:

so that's the point i brought up earlier, given either with the nine month period you reference or the january 2017 deadline referenced by another orger - either way and whichever the true deadline for payment of prince's estate taxes -in my opinion there is no conceivable reason to rush into the sale of prince's assets.

.

you seem to agree with me that tax court will be very lenient in granting an emergency or other extension to prince's heirs. so where is the rush?

.

to clarify, i'm asking this question because on another thread, we are discussing the tineline of the sale of Paisley park, which is allegedly 'on the block' due to the need for payment of estate taxes.

.

perhaps it is simply bad reporting, but an article published recently in the star tribune allegedly quoted bremer as saying that they were considering all options for sale, including Paisley Park, in order to meet a tax obligation i cannot even believe is due yet.

I concur. This need for speed is alarming. It is a definite cause for pause...


The administation of an estate is more than dealing with a decedent's assets - it also covers the debts of the estate. I repeat my previous response: PP is a business. You have NO idea what debts and/or obligations PP and/or the Estate has to deal with. And how many ways may they possibly be dividing up the Estate? You are not doing anyone any favors by creating panic. The Judge has appointed an Administrator for this estate. How about letting them do their job? It takes time - I speak from hands-on experience with dealing with estates. Also, you must prepare for the worst, and hope for the best. There is a massive, complicated estate here. We need to let the probate court, etc. do their jobs.

Just sayin'.....

fyi: Proposed Order Authorizing Special Administrator's Employment Of Entertainment Industry Experts
http://www.mncourts.gov/m...xperts.pdf


also fyi: The Notice to the Creditors of the Estate was mailed out 5/10/2016.

And, sure, they can request an extension for the Estate for more time to file the tax returns. But the tax(es) are still due. Which means that they may have to also pay interest/fees/penalties on top of the taxes if they can't get it filed timely. Can you imagine how much money we are talking about?


(This is not legal advice.)

[Edited 6/13/16 16:35pm]

RIP Prince. We will NEVER forget you. Thank you so much.

"Dearly Beloved:
We are gathered here today 2 get through this thing called: 'Life'."
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Reply #129 posted 06/13/16 10:20pm

FlyOnTheWall

mailaccount63 said:

FlyOnTheWall said:

I concur. This need for speed is alarming. It is a definite cause for pause...


The administation of an estate is more than dealing with a decedent's assets - it also covers the debts of the estate. I repeat my previous response: PP is a business. You have NO idea what debts and/or obligations PP and/or the Estate has to deal with. And how many ways may they possibly be dividing up the Estate? You are not doing anyone any favors by creating panic. The Judge has appointed an Administrator for this estate. How about letting them do their job? It takes time - I speak from hands-on experience with dealing with estates. Also, you must prepare for the worst, and hope for the best. There is a massive, complicated estate here. We need to let the probate court, etc. do their jobs.

Just sayin'.....

fyi: Proposed Order Authorizing Special Administrator's Employment Of Entertainment Industry Experts
http://www.mncourts.gov/m...xperts.pdf


also fyi: The Notice to the Creditors of the Estate was mailed out 5/10/2016.

And, sure, they can request an extension for the Estate for more time to file the tax returns. But the tax(es) are still due. Which means that they may have to also pay interest/fees/penalties on top of the taxes if they can't get it filed timely. Can you imagine how much money we are talking about?


(This is not legal advice.)

[Edited 6/13/16 16:35pm]

You are correct, NONE of us has any idea about anything happening with Prince's estate, except what's reported in the media, including you and I...unless you know something we don't. And I would bet money that if Prince and Paisley Park faced/faces massive debt, there would be countless headlines about it. Presently, the only outstanding debt being reported is looming estate taxes, (which, by the way, would not be the case if there were an estate plan and trust in place). Moreover, most of us understand about assets and liabilities and profits and losses, but thank you for hammering that obvious point home. Lastly, it is not my intention to "create panic," as you suggest. My goal is to raise questions about Prince's apparent and inexplicable lack of an estate plan...and to try to get some kind of explanation from his legal and financial advisors. What is yours? Ultimately, I just want any potential "Thieves in the Temple" to know that we are closely watching. As I have said repeatedly on this post, something in the water does not compute.

[Edited 6/13/16 22:21pm]

[Edited 6/13/16 22:27pm]

[Edited 6/13/16 22:30pm]

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Reply #130 posted 06/14/16 12:11am

Eileen

FlyOnTheWall said:

You are correct, NONE of us has any idea about anything happening with Prince's estate, except what's reported in the media, including you and I...unless you know something we don't.

My goal is to raise questions about Prince's apparent and inexplicable lack of an estate plan...and to try to get some kind of explanation from his legal and financial advisors. What is yours? Ultimately, I just want any potential "Thieves in the Temple" to know that we are closely watching. As I have said repeatedly on this post, something in the water does not compute.


I don't even understand how, as a superfan, you could find it inexplicable. It's very much in line with personal and religious beliefs he's expressed over many years in interviews and music, as well as the way he's handled many of his business affairs. The day after he died I commented to a friend that he probably didn't have a will. If a will had been (or is yet) found, I'll just presume somebody overrode his instincts for once.

Frankly I've wondered this about many here who seem unable to accept that he could have done such a thing (not leave a will)... that they seem to have been fans of a different Prince than the one with which I've been familiar.

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Reply #131 posted 06/14/16 1:25am

FlyOnTheWall

Eileen said:

FlyOnTheWall said:

You are correct, NONE of us has any idea about anything happening with Prince's estate, except what's reported in the media, including you and I...unless you know something we don't.

My goal is to raise questions about Prince's apparent and inexplicable lack of an estate plan...and to try to get some kind of explanation from his legal and financial advisors. What is yours? Ultimately, I just want any potential "Thieves in the Temple" to know that we are closely watching. As I have said repeatedly on this post, something in the water does not compute.


I don't even understand how, as a superfan, you could find it inexplicable. It's very much in line with personal and religious beliefs he's expressed over many years in interviews and music, as well as the way he's handled many of his business affairs. The day after he died I commented to a friend that he probably didn't have a will. If a will had been (or is yet) found, I'll just presume somebody overrode his instincts for once.

Frankly I've wondered this about many here who seem unable to accept that he could have done such a thing (not leave a will)... that they seem to have been fans of a different Prince than the one with which I've been familiar.

Let me first say that I don't come here claiming to be some "superfan," but I do love Prince and I am very, very concerned about his legacy. That notwithstanding, I have heard/read many of the comments to which you refer, but Prince was sometimes a study in contradiction, no? To me, it just seems inexplicable that he would wage a pitched battle with his label for control of his masters, arguably during some of his most productive years, and then not plan for control of his incalculable fortune. Perhaps religion did play a role, but he wrote "Colonized Mind" in 2009, after his conversion to the Jehovah's Witness faith. Those lyrics speak to a Prince who understood that acquiring control of his intellectual property was only the first part of securing his legacy. He wrote:


Colonized Mind :: Verse 3

Upload: a joint venture record deal
It's just another way for the man two steal
While he's sticking you with the bill
Download: the temporary acquisition of fleeting fame and fortune
Nothing to leave in your will

That doesn't sound like a man who was anti-will. IJS...

[Edited 6/14/16 1:26am]

[Edited 6/14/16 1:27am]

[Edited 6/14/16 1:29am]

[Edited 6/14/16 1:34am]

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Reply #132 posted 06/14/16 1:40am

FlyOnTheWall

Eileen said:

FlyOnTheWall said:

You are correct, NONE of us has any idea about anything happening with Prince's estate, except what's reported in the media, including you and I...unless you know something we don't.

My goal is to raise questions about Prince's apparent and inexplicable lack of an estate plan...and to try to get some kind of explanation from his legal and financial advisors. What is yours? Ultimately, I just want any potential "Thieves in the Temple" to know that we are closely watching. As I have said repeatedly on this post, something in the water does not compute.


I don't even understand how, as a superfan, you could find it inexplicable. It's very much in line with personal and religious beliefs he's expressed over many years in interviews and music, as well as the way he's handled many of his business affairs. The day after he died I commented to a friend that he probably didn't have a will. If a will had been (or is yet) found, I'll just presume somebody overrode his instincts for once.

Frankly I've wondered this about many here who seem unable to accept that he could have done such a thing (not leave a will)... that they seem to have been fans of a different Prince than the one with which I've been familiar.

Frankly, I have to wonder why anyone would find it necessary to try to tamp down questions about Prince's apparent lack of an estate plan. What does it hurt to search for answers? Better still, who does it hurt? It does make you wonder...

[Edited 6/14/16 1:41am]

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Reply #133 posted 06/14/16 2:26am

Eileen

FlyOnTheWall said:

Eileen said:

I don't even understand how, as a superfan, you could find it inexplicable. It's very much in line with personal and religious beliefs he's expressed over many years in interviews and music, as well as the way he's handled many of his business affairs. The day after he died I commented to a friend that he probably didn't have a will. If a will had been (or is yet) found, I'll just presume somebody overrode his instincts for once.

Frankly I've wondered this about many here who seem unable to accept that he could have done such a thing (not leave a will)... that they seem to have been fans of a different Prince than the one with which I've been familiar.


Frankly, I have to wonder why anyone would find it necessary to try to tamp down questions about Prince's apparent lack of an estate plan. What does it hurt to search for answers? Better still, who does it hurt? It does make you wonder...


That's hilarious. Yes you caught me out, clever thing. I started as a naive and unassuming WB receptionist back in 02. Now I have Ultimate Power and I am going to TAMP YOU DOWN!


TAMP!


TAMP TAMP!

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Reply #134 posted 06/14/16 2:34am

hw3004

XxAxX said:

hw3004 said:

I think you're both right. Prince was, by most reasonable criteria, a "success" but I'd agree with Bart some of his decisions where questionable to mere mortals like ourselves!

.

bart is wrong by definition. he is a sweaty little internet troll, person whose posts here at prince.org demonstrate his loathing for all things prince. someone who has become famous at the org for shitting all over everything he can find about prince.

[Edited 6/13/16 6:39am]

even a broken watch is right twice a day...

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Reply #135 posted 06/14/16 2:48am

FlyOnTheWall

Eileen said:

FlyOnTheWall said:


Frankly, I have to wonder why anyone would find it necessary to try to tamp down questions about Prince's apparent lack of an estate plan. What does it hurt to search for answers? Better still, who does it hurt? It does make you wonder...


That's hilarious. Yes you caught me out, clever thing. I started as a naive and unassuming WB receptionist back in 02. Now I have Ultimate Power and I am going to TAMP YOU DOWN!


TAMP!


TAMP TAMP!

WB???? Interesting sense of humor, you have... hmm

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Reply #136 posted 06/14/16 4:12am

XxAxX

avatar

FlyOnTheWall said:

XxAxX said:

so that's the point i brought up earlier, given either with the nine month period you reference or the january 2017 deadline referenced by another orger - either way and whichever the true deadline for payment of prince's estate taxes -in my opinion there is no conceivable reason to rush into the sale of prince's assets.

.

you seem to agree with me that tax court will be very lenient in granting an emergency or other extension to prince's heirs. so where is the rush?

.

to clarify, i'm asking this question because on another thread, we are discussing the tineline of the sale of Paisley park, which is allegedly 'on the block' due to the need for payment of estate taxes.

.

perhaps it is simply bad reporting, but an article published recently in the star tribune allegedly quoted bremer as saying that they were considering all options for sale, including Paisley Park, in order to meet a tax obligation i cannot even believe is due yet.

I concur. This need for speed is alarming. It is a definite cause for pause...

i wonder if the beneficiaries are interested in a super fast resolution/distribution?

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Reply #137 posted 06/14/16 6:33am

FlyOnTheWall

XxAxX said:

FlyOnTheWall said:

I concur. This need for speed is alarming. It is a definite cause for pause...

i wonder if the beneficiaries are interested in a super fast resolution/distribution?

I'm sure. They probably are; however, that should not drive the courts.

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Reply #138 posted 06/14/16 6:57am

Eileen

XxAxX said:

i wonder if the beneficiaries are interested in a super fast resolution/distribution?


I'm not sure if the current, probable, intestate heirs are even considered beneficiaries yet... don't know what their official status is with the probate court. Another point where a lawyer could clarify.

There were reports that some of the siblings wanted to at least review decisions and potential contracts even though Bremer argued that it would slow down the process.

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Reply #139 posted 06/14/16 7:22am

RiotPaisley

Eileen said:



Se7en said:


The only problem I see with this is that there was a giant rush of sales right after Prince's death of Purple Rain, 1999 and the hits packages.

I don't know if most people would re-buy Purple Rain so soon. It might be a release for the hardcore fans only, and it would have to be very enticing.




I had indeed overlooked that - good point, thanks.

Youtube has likely whetted plenty of newbie appetites for SOTT though.

I wonder if the estate knows how much $$$ are incoming from all those sales yet. Do you happen to know if any of the press has discussed expected revenue?



True, but the reissues would have to include live material and "unreleased" stuff. Live in Syracuse would be a great bonus. You issue a collector edition PR bluRay. A disc with bonus features, I could see that being the only thing that would delay- putting together something that may not exist. I felt like there was something missing to the bonus features already released. also the official videos to the movie songs. Second disc would be live from Syracuse, the original soundtrack, the original soundtrack- extended/ remix edition, disc 5 PR Bsides and rarities. Put a nice booklet in there with photos or something. Original script. Put it in a fancy purple tin. Maybe put them on purple discs... Voila. You could do a similar package with 1999. There was like a video for every song and I'm sure there's live performances of the tour.

I, as a hardcore fan, already have everything Purple Rain to date- I have singles, multiple VHS copies, DVD, bluRay... So I haven't bought anything yet. I just got a Tidal membership to tide me over.
Surprise, surprise.
Another treat. Another trick.
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Reply #140 posted 06/14/16 7:24am

RiotPaisley

Se7en said:



Eileen said:




Se7en said:


The only problem I see with this is that there was a giant rush of sales right after Prince's death of Purple Rain, 1999 and the hits packages.

I don't know if most people would re-buy Purple Rain so soon. It might be a release for the hardcore fans only, and it would have to be very enticing.




I had indeed overlooked that - good point, thanks.

Youtube has likely whetted plenty of newbie appetites for SOTT though.

I wonder if the estate knows how much $$$ are incoming from all those sales yet. Do you happen to know if any of the press has discussed expected revenue?




I don't, sorry!

Seems like the Catch-22 on more sales would be that it also increases the value of the Estate (which in turn increases the amount of taxes).



Maybe that's why there's been nothing official yet.

The waiting is the hardest part. -Tom Petty
Surprise, surprise.
Another treat. Another trick.
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Reply #141 posted 06/14/16 11:58am

FlyOnTheWall

RiotPaisley said:

Se7en said:


I don't, sorry!

Seems like the Catch-22 on more sales would be that it also increases the value of the Estate (which in turn increases the amount of taxes).

Maybe that's why there's been nothing official yet. The waiting is the hardest part. -Tom Petty

I have to do some checking. Do estate taxes extend to posthumous earnings? It seems like there should be a clear line of demarcation between the existing estate and anything earned posthumously. But, much about the law doesn't make sense to lay people like me. Perhaps some of the lawyers on this post will chime in.

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Reply #142 posted 06/14/16 12:37pm

FlyOnTheWall

RiotPaisley said:

Se7en said:


I don't, sorry!

Seems like the Catch-22 on more sales would be that it also increases the value of the Estate (which in turn increases the amount of taxes).

Maybe that's why there's been nothing official yet. The waiting is the hardest part. -Tom Petty

As I suspected, there is a line of demarcation between the decedent's assets at the time of demise and those earned posthumously; however, valuation can be tricky with intangible assets like intellectual property and royalties. This article offers what I think is a pretty accessible breakdown of how the process works, citing the "King of Dead-Celebrity Lawyers," Mark Roesler of CMG Worldwide. It also makes it clear why the proposed PRINCE act currently in the Minnesota legislature is such a HUGE deal. Here is the article excerpt most relevant to this discussion:

Who gets the money made b...lebrities?

When one of these stars checks out, Roesler checks in. He values what’s left and figures out how to make money on it, for both the heirs and his firm. “They have two types of assets," Roesler says of the typical dead celebrity. "Tangible assets cars, bank accounts, homes; and intangible assetscopyrights, trademarks [and] the right of publicity, which is the right to your name and likeness.”

For the heirs of music stars, Roesler says, this is where the big money usually is. It’s the songs: sold on iTunes, played in bars and used in ads. Plus, the celebrity’s name and image, put on products or even back 0n stage in holographic form.

And who gets the profits? The estate lawyers’ cut is typically 10 percent or more. Record labels and marketers also get a slice of the revenue stream. Income tax can grab as much as 40 percent of the profits, and the IRS also takes a one-time Estate Tax payment on the estimated value of the assets at the time of death.



[Edited 6/14/16 12:47pm]

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Reply #143 posted 06/14/16 2:50pm

XxAxX

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FlyOnTheWall said:

XxAxX said:

i wonder if the beneficiaries are interested in a super fast resolution/distribution?

I'm sure. They probably are; however, that should not drive the courts.

it might be a factor in not prolonging the process. which is their prerogative

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Reply #144 posted 06/14/16 6:22pm

luvsexy4all

FlyOnTheWall said:

Se7en said:

This might all be part of Prince's plan for all we know. No wife, no kids, no parents. If he himself wasn't going to be here to enjoy his fortune, maybe he just didn't care what happened after he died? I'm being serious too.

Prince was very astute. Even if he didn't care about the money, he DID care about his legacy...and history. Why would he work like a dog for over four decades, only to have his life's work evaporate because of failure to plan? He could have ensured that Paisley Park--his shining INSTITUTION that he built with his blood, sweat, and tears--would survive forever and that his philanthropy would never end. I'll NEVER believe that he died with no estate plan. NEVER.

simply..he didnt plan on dying THIS soon

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Reply #145 posted 06/14/16 7:21pm

FlyOnTheWall

luvsexy4all said:

FlyOnTheWall said:

Prince was very astute. Even if he didn't care about the money, he DID care about his legacy...and history. Why would he work like a dog for over four decades, only to have his life's work evaporate because of failure to plan? He could have ensured that Paisley Park--his shining INSTITUTION that he built with his blood, sweat, and tears--would survive forever and that his philanthropy would never end. I'll NEVER believe that he died with no estate plan. NEVER.

simply..he didnt plan on dying THIS soon

Perhaps...

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Reply #146 posted 06/14/16 7:23pm

luvsexy4all

FlyOnTheWall said:

luvsexy4all said:

simply..he didnt plan on dying THIS soon

Perhaps...

however ....WTF was he thinking after the FIRST OD???

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Reply #147 posted 06/14/16 7:42pm

RenaRF

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FlyOnTheWall said:



XxAxX said:




Eileen said:




Whew. I can do something with this except that attorney thing. Which I see you now asked for again, although I haven't posted this yet. But here are my speculations anyway, which you might already know.



I haven't even looked this up but...


- normally you have until the filing deadline to file for an extension


- so they probably have 9 months before the extension has to be filed


- normally an extension is just that, a fairly simple I haven't filed yet, I'll take the 6 more months please
- that's probably true with estate tax extensions as well, it's probably not an emergency-anything
- extensions don't grant tax relief, as noted prev. interest still accrues on taxes not paid by the due date... they're just about the paperwork and when extra financial penalties might be assessed



Agree btw, I've also appreciated most of the attorney-chiming-in that I've seen on a couple of these threads... BanishedBrian and a few others.




so that's the point i brought up earlier, given either with the nine month period you reference or the january 2017 deadline referenced by another orger - either way and whichever the true deadline for payment of prince's estate taxes -in my opinion there is no conceivable reason to rush into the sale of prince's assets.


.


you seem to agree with me that tax court will be very lenient in granting an emergency or other extension to prince's heirs. so where is the rush?


.


to clarify, i'm asking this question because on another thread, we are discussing the tineline of the sale of Paisley park, which is allegedly 'on the block' due to the need for payment of estate taxes.


.


perhaps it is simply bad reporting, but an article published recently in the star tribune allegedly quoted bremer as saying that they were considering all options for sale, including Paisley Park, in order to meet a tax obligation i cannot even believe is due yet.



I concur. This need for speed is alarming. It is a definite cause for pause...



My conjecture (and that's all it is) is that the family is asking for an expedited disposition on the estate. I read elsewhere that George Lopez had made a loan to some number of Prince's known heirs. Prince had apparently been supporting his siblings and half siblings (or at least some of them). Presumably, with him no longer here to parcel out that support, the family is in dire need. Which is why it would make sense for them to request an expedited disposition.
"Everything that's in your heart, come what may
Even though his might get broken" RIP Prince
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Reply #148 posted 06/14/16 9:54pm

Eileen

RenaRF said:

My conjecture (and that's all it is) is that the family is asking for an expedited disposition on the estate. I read elsewhere that George Lopez had made a loan to some number of Prince's known heirs. Prince had apparently been supporting his siblings and half siblings (or at least some of them). Presumably, with him no longer here to parcel out that support, the family is in dire need. Which is why it would make sense for them to request an expedited disposition.


The whole need for speed concern is based on Bremer arguing for more autonomy in order to make a timely tax payment (and which could involve raising more cash). Some media and readers are also misconstruing court arguments for actual events, as though talking in court about what might or could possibly happen means an event is actually occurring, which of course is not true.

I've not read any reports so far indicating family asking for an expedited disposition, only the opposite. There have been reports that some have asked to be more involved, which Bremer has opposed, arguing that this would slow disposition.


Read that too, about the Lopez loan, with differing explanations in each article. Some said they were getting allowances, some saying he supported them, another said it was mostly for the disabled sibling, which would make sense as he's in an institution which likely has a monthly fee. Another article or two said the estate assets had been frozen, meaning they probably had to pay for the cremation/service out of pocket. Possibly also retainers for each of their attorneys. Could be any combination or even none of the above.

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Reply #149 posted 06/15/16 3:35am

XxAxX

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RenaRF said:

FlyOnTheWall said:

I concur. This need for speed is alarming. It is a definite cause for pause...

My conjecture (and that's all it is) is that the family is asking for an expedited disposition on the estate. I read elsewhere that George Lopez had made a loan to some number of Prince's known heirs. Prince had apparently been supporting his siblings and half siblings (or at least some of them). Presumably, with him no longer here to parcel out that support, the family is in dire need. Which is why it would make sense for them to request an expedited disposition.

that would seem to be at least partly the case:

http://kstp.com/news/trust-company-prince-estate-case/4163893/

.

Created: 06/08/2016 4:40 PM

A Minnesota judge has authorized the trust company that's overseeing Prince's estate to hire entertainment industry experts to help manage and preserve the deceased superstar's musical legacy.
. . .

Eide wrote that he intends for Bremer Trust "to take all prudent steps" to generate money from Prince's intellectual property, to raise funds for administering the estate and for paying estate taxes. So he says the company needs advice from industry experts to make the necessary business decisions.

here is a link to all court documents filed so far in this case. th court system has made them easily available for us all to review. imo from the documents filed so far, none of this will be resolved 'quickly', as we would understand that word:

http://www.mncourts.gov/InReTheEstateofPrinceRogersNelson.aspx

10-PR-16-46 In re the Estate of Prince Rogers Nelson, Deceased

[Edited 6/15/16 4:03am]

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