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Thread started 06/09/16 6:44am

Militant

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New information about "New Position".


Hey all.



So, some of you may know that there are versions of songs from "Parade" that had full orchestration done by Clare Fischer, but were later removed. Two examples of songs were the orchestration was completely removed are "New Position", and "Sometimes It Snows in April".



The Fischer versions of these songs aren't available anywhere, but I thought I'd share a tiny tidbit of information with you about that version of "New Position" in particular. This information hasn't been posted online before, nor is it on PrinceVault, or in any book I've seen, so I'm just putting it out there into the ether.



The information is that Prince took some of the orchestration (horns and strings) from that version of "New Position" and re-used it on "Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic", the title track. Both the 88 demo and the released version in 1999 contain those sampled parts. It's no more than 10 seconds from that original orchestration, but cool nonetheless.


Given that "Rave" contains these parts from "New Position", and that "The Max" reused the guitar line from "Rave" a few years later, it makes me smile that that songs stretches into 4 distinct eras in it's own way (1985, 1988, 1992 and 1999).



cool

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Reply #1 posted 06/09/16 6:48am

CuddlyBear

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Where'd you get this info?
Christopher damn!
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Reply #2 posted 06/09/16 6:49am

TonyWilliams

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thanks for sharing the info

Love...thy will b done
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Reply #3 posted 06/09/16 7:11am

SPYZFAN1

Very cool. Thanks for the scoop.

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Reply #4 posted 06/09/16 7:17am

suomynona

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CuddlyBear said:

Where'd you get this info?


I am pretty sure that the info came into Miltant's ears while listening to the music -- and then the information was processed and he eventually came to his computer and began typing.

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Reply #5 posted 06/09/16 7:47am

terrig

Militant said:


Hey all.



So, some of you may know that there are versions of songs from "Parade" that had full orchestration done by Clare Fischer, but were later removed. Two examples of songs were the orchestration was completely removed are "New Position", and "Sometimes It Snows in April".



The Fischer versions of these songs aren't available anywhere, but I thought I'd share a tiny tidbit of information with you about that version of "New Position" in particular. This information hasn't been posted online before, nor is it on PrinceVault, or in any book I've seen, so I'm just putting it out there into the ether.



The information is that Prince took some of the orchestration (horns and strings) from that version of "New Position" and re-used it on "Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic", the title track. Both the 88 demo and the released version in 1999 contain those sampled parts. It's no more than 10 seconds from that original orchestration, but cool nonetheless.


Given that "Rave" contains these parts from "New Position", and that "The Max" reused the guitar line from "Rave" a few years later, it makes me smile that that songs stretches into 4 distinct eras in it's own way (1985, 1988, 1992 and 1999).



cool



I was reading the interview with St Paul here:
http://www.okayplayer.com/news/prince-the-family-st-paul-prince-day-interview.html/2

that talks alot about Clare Fischers contributions....great read - may be related?

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Reply #6 posted 06/09/16 8:17am

airth

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suomynona said:

CuddlyBear said:

Where'd you get this info?


I am pretty sure that the info came into Miltant's ears while listening to the music -- and then the information was processed and he eventually came to his computer and began typing.


Except, how would Miltant's ears be able to figure out that the void of non-existant orchestration on New Position would be the perfect spot to drop a ten second excerpt of orchestration from a completely unrelated track?

Anyway, thanks Militant. This is nice to know.

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Reply #7 posted 06/09/16 8:20am

Guitarhero

Would love to hear these cool

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Reply #8 posted 06/09/16 8:37am

consistently

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Very interesting - thank you!

thank u 4 a funky time
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Reply #9 posted 06/09/16 9:04am

TrivialPursuit

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It's funny you bring this up, because I was listening to outtakes last night on YouTube. One of them was "Our Destiny". For anyone who knows the song, it starts with a rather long drum beat intro, and not too much else before the quirky melody and verse come in. However, on this one the string section the precedes "The Ladder" was played over the beginning beats. I thought that little interlude was from something else (Visions?), but I can't remember. It's been a minute since I've read about it.

I also remember reading an article recently about "Baltimore", and the guy who did the orchestrations for it. It was the article which also talked about Prince being excited he'd found a new sound. The guy noted that the strings they did for "Baltimore" weren't in the same spots in the final cut. Prince moved some stuff around by a measure or two. (By the way, for those who don't know, the new sound was that Prince would record his guitar solo, then have this guy orchestrate the solo. Then in the final mix, it would slowly segue from the orchestra doing the solo, to the actual guitar solo. Go listen again, and you'll hear it go from strings to guitar. It's pretty cool knowing that story.)

There's something else on prince album that uses strings from another song, too. Or maybe it was something from Batman. So much cross pollination.

This experience will cover courtship, sex, commitment, fetishes, loneliness, vindication, love, and hate.
http://bit.ly/1D3FG2U
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Reply #10 posted 06/09/16 10:07am

RodeoSchro

I have a (Facebook) friend named Eric Ambel, who is a guitarist in the Rockabilly Hall of Fame, and played guitar for the seminal rock band, The Del-Lords. And he's played with just about everyone else, too.

When Prince died, Eric said the coolest thing he'd ever heard was "New Position" because it was the only song he knew of that used pencils to create a beat. LOL, I thought that was awesome.

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Reply #11 posted 06/09/16 10:16am

IstenSzek

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Militant said:


Hey all.



So, some of you may know that there are versions of songs from "Parade" that had full orchestration done by Clare Fischer, but were later removed. Two examples of songs were the orchestration was completely removed are "New Position", and "Sometimes It Snows in April".



The Fischer versions of these songs aren't available anywhere, but I thought I'd share a tiny tidbit of information with you about that version of "New Position" in particular. This information hasn't been posted online before, nor is it on PrinceVault, or in any book I've seen, so I'm just putting it out there into the ether.



The information is that Prince took some of the orchestration (horns and strings) from that version of "New Position" and re-used it on "Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic", the title track. Both the 88 demo and the released version in 1999 contain those sampled parts. It's no more than 10 seconds from that original orchestration, but cool nonetheless.


Given that "Rave" contains these parts from "New Position", and that "The Max" reused the guitar line from "Rave" a few years later, it makes me smile that that songs stretches into 4 distinct eras in it's own way (1985, 1988, 1992 and 1999).



cool



don't forget that the guitar part (the rif?) from Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic was also
re-used on "we live 2 get funky", performed in france, in what was it, 2010 or 2011?

so it just kept on keeping on, that good old Rave lol

and true love lives on lollipops and crisps
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Reply #12 posted 06/09/16 11:14am

Sander

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Militant said:


Hey all.





So, some of you may know that there are versions of songs from "Parade" that had full orchestration done by Clare Fischer, but were later removed. Two examples of songs were the orchestration was completely removed are "New Position", and "Sometimes It Snows in April".





The Fischer versions of these songs aren't available anywhere, but I thought I'd share a tiny tidbit of information with you about that version of "New Position" in particular. This information hasn't been posted online before, nor is it on PrinceVault, or in any book I've seen, so I'm just putting it out there into the ether.





The information is that Prince took some of the orchestration (horns and strings) from that version of "New Position" and re-used it on "Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic", the title track. Both the 88 demo and the released version in 1999 contain those sampled parts. It's no more than 10 seconds from that original orchestration, but cool nonetheless.


Given that "Rave" contains these parts from "New Position", and that "The Max" reused the guitar line from "Rave" a few years later, it makes me smile that that songs stretches into 4 distinct eras in it's own way (1985, 1988, 1992 and 1999).



cool



Clare Fischer did some masterclass workshops around '99, I believe. During these 90 minute classes he talked a lot about Prince and even played some Parade outtakes, some with and some without his strings. These were early demos that they send to each other. He didn't let anyone copy them (people did ask!). I only heard those once. I believe he played the first three songs of Parade. I can't recall if the string parts were the same as for Rave. A lot of the string parts for 'the one' or from musicology or 3121 do sound very familiar. He used some parts for multiple songs.
.
[Edited 6/9/16 11:56am]
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Reply #13 posted 06/09/16 12:56pm

PeteSilas

ya, i remember seeing that, i adored his arrangements, two schools of thought on CF, some people hated him, but i loved his work. what was it p said on Parade "thanks for making brigher the colors black and white"

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Reply #14 posted 06/09/16 1:30pm

itsjustaroundt
hecorner

i remember that Z100 in New York used to play New Position... it was after Kiss had peaked and before Mountains was the single.

Seems that Mountains was always planned as the 2nd single to coincide with UTCM..

but does any one have any insight as to whether or not there was debate about using NEW POSITION as the 2nd single?

I've always thought 'Girls & Boys' would have been the best choice, personally!

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Reply #15 posted 06/09/16 2:20pm

StudioA1992

i found this last night....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8vdhmd0P9M

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Reply #16 posted 06/09/16 3:01pm

PurpleMusic07

RodeoSchro said:

I have a (Facebook) friend named Eric Ambel, who is a guitarist in the Rockabilly Hall of Fame, and played guitar for the seminal rock band, The Del-Lords. And he's played with just about everyone else, too.

When Prince died, Eric said the coolest thing he'd ever heard was "New Position" because it was the only song he knew of that used pencils to create a beat. LOL, I thought that was awesome.



Pencils? What do you mean.

Also thanks for sharing that information Militant! Apparently thi was originally recorded in 82.. Didn't know that until today! Anyone have any info about that? Prince Vault says it's still unreleased.
"Where you are now is in a place that does not require time." - Rest In Power, PRINCE
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Reply #17 posted 06/09/16 3:17pm

PeteSilas

itsjustaroundthecorner said:

i remember that Z100 in New York used to play New Position... it was after Kiss had peaked and before Mountains was the single.

Seems that Mountains was always planned as the 2nd single to coincide with UTCM..

but does any one have any insight as to whether or not there was debate about using NEW POSITION as the 2nd single?

I've always thought 'Girls & Boys' would have been the best choice, personally!

the critics raved about girls and boys more than they had about any other single prince song i ever saw. however, it was so quirky, i don't know if it would have made a good single. Prince got too wierd for a lot of the pop world. As much as you or i might love it, the average teenager/listener couldn't follow, and then, we always had the vintage Prince fans who just wanted sequels to 1999.

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Reply #18 posted 06/09/16 3:20pm

newpowergenera
tion

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I have always adored Clare Fischer's work with Prince. He has such a unique harmonic sensibility.

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Reply #19 posted 06/09/16 4:01pm

consistently

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newpowergeneration said:

I have always adored Clare Fischer's work with Prince. He has such a unique harmonic sensibility.

Agreed x100

thank u 4 a funky time
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Reply #20 posted 06/09/16 7:24pm

EddieC

TrivialPursuit said:


I also remember reading an article recently about "Baltimore", and the guy who did the orchestrations for it. It was the article which also talked about Prince being excited he'd found a new sound. The guy noted that the strings they did for "Baltimore" weren't in the same spots in the final cut. Prince moved some stuff around by a measure or two. (By the way, for those who don't know, the new sound was that Prince would record his guitar solo, then have this guy orchestrate the solo. Then in the final mix, it would slowly segue from the orchestra doing the solo, to the actual guitar solo. Go listen again, and you'll hear it go from strings to guitar. It's pretty cool knowing that story.)


The guy in question is on the .org--Michael B. Nelson (orger name "Mr. Moops"). His comments tend to be pretty much just fact-based, and can give an interesting look at what happened in the studio, and he did a lot of work with Prince since the mid-90's off and on. I know an article on this particular subject was on the Rolling Stone site (at least that's where I saw Nelson talking about it) so anyone who wanted to read it could probably find it there.

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Reply #21 posted 06/12/16 2:25pm

mrfog

PurpleMusic07 said:

RodeoSchro said:

I have a (Facebook) friend named Eric Ambel, who is a guitarist in the Rockabilly Hall of Fame, and played guitar for the seminal rock band, The Del-Lords. And he's played with just about everyone else, too.

When Prince died, Eric said the coolest thing he'd ever heard was "New Position" because it was the only song he knew of that used pencils to create a beat. LOL, I thought that was awesome.



Pencils? What do you mean.

Also thanks for sharing that information Militant! Apparently thi was originally recorded in 82.. Didn't know that until today! Anyone have any info about that? Prince Vault says it's still unreleased.

Pencil percussion from 0:04 to 0:08 I think...
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