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Reply #1170 posted 07/30/16 8:17pm

CTron

Woah, this thread has taken a bit of a turn! I had to step away for a while following the release of the autopsy results as what they revealed, in all honesty, left me feeling a bit heartbroken. I felt that would be the answer, but it still hurt. Here's my take on things.

I think Prince had been using way longer than anyone of us wants to admit. His behaviour in the lead up to his death really is addict 101, when the stories you tell and the facade you create starts to slip, the walls close in and you know your game is up. You overdose on a plane but rock up at a club a few days later like nothing happened, you throw a party, you agree to rehab and/or treatment because your recent actions leave you no choice but to admit you need help, whether you believe it or not. Then, the night before when you know you might actually have to follow through with promises you've made and actually attempt to deal with your addiction, you take everything you can. Party time. You're afraid of what's to come, you worry you might not succeed, you fear the pain you'll have to endure, and you wonder how you'll manage to live without something you have come to depend upon. You feel ashamed, that you've disappointed everyone you know including yourself, and foolish that it ever had to come to this. You choose to forget for a while, one last time.

I'm sure he never intended for it to be this way, whether his use was legitimate or not. This was an accident, a mistake, as it is for all who find themselves here. No one aspires to addiction, it's not something you ever dream of becoming, it just happens. One day you have control and the next day you don't, and you're never sure where that line is until you have crossed it.

None of this changes my opinion of him, he's still the greatest artist I'll ever see or know in my lifetime. He wrote some of the most profound, meaningful and important songs I've ever had the privilledge of listening to. That last show I got to see, it felt like he ripped my heart out of my chest and sat it right there on the piano before putting it back with a memory. I'm grateful for all the times shared and those stilll to come because of all the incredible work he created and has now left for us. I'm sad it had to end this way...

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Reply #1171 posted 07/31/16 8:50am

AnnaStesia10

avatar

CTron said:

Woah, this thread has taken a bit of a turn! I had to step away for a while following the release of the autopsy results as what they revealed, in all honesty, left me feeling a bit heartbroken. I felt that would be the answer, but it still hurt. Here's my take on things.

I think Prince had been using way longer than anyone of us wants to admit. His behaviour in the lead up to his death really is addict 101, when the stories you tell and the facade you create starts to slip, the walls close in and you know your game is up. You overdose on a plane but rock up at a club a few days later like nothing happened, you throw a party, you agree to rehab and/or treatment because your recent actions leave you no choice but to admit you need help, whether you believe it or not. Then, the night before when you know you might actually have to follow through with promises you've made and actually attempt to deal with your addiction, you take everything you can. Party time. You're afraid of what's to come, you worry you might not succeed, you fear the pain you'll have to endure, and you wonder how you'll manage to live without something you have come to depend upon. You feel ashamed, that you've disappointed everyone you know including yourself, and foolish that it ever had to come to this. You choose to forget for a while, one last time.

I'm sure he never intended for it to be this way, whether his use was legitimate or not. This was an accident, a mistake, as it is for all who find themselves here. No one aspires to addiction, it's not something you ever dream of becoming, it just happens. One day you have control and the next day you don't, and you're never sure where that line is until you have crossed it.

None of this changes my opinion of him, he's still the greatest artist I'll ever see or know in my lifetime. He wrote some of the most profound, meaningful and important songs I've ever had the privilledge of listening to. That last show I got to see, it felt like he ripped my heart out of my chest and sat it right there on the piano before putting it back with a memory. I'm grateful for all the times shared and those stilll to come because of all the incredible work he created and has now left for us. I'm sad it had to end this way...

Wow CTron, I don't know why but your post got to me, but it did. I know we ALL do not know what really went down and are just expressing our thoughts and opinions, and we all have the right to do so. I know in time we will all know the truth. I am not going to lie I am in the camp that does not think he was an addict and think something else was going on.

+++

But...what you said is true in the fact that addicts do act this way. I have know some awesome people affected with emotional and physical pain some both at the same time, who were highly functioning you wouldn't think they were taking anything to deal with it because they acted normal or better than normal. Until it became a problem, then s**t hit the fan. What you said is right on. I just have not heard it broken down the way you said it in regards to Prince or if I did I blocked it out. But, at this point, your words hit something inside me, like what you said could be a strong possibility whether we all like it or not. Time will reveal the truth. I just wanted to tell you I hear u.

[Edited 7/31/16 8:51am]

"A strong spirit transcends rules." - Prince
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Reply #1172 posted 07/31/16 5:21pm

muleFunk

avatar

Superconductor said:

muleFunk said:

How is someone a rape apologist because they said that many of these cases cannot be proven?

Look up the women and look at how many have been proven false.

Because you are claiming that these women are lying.

Because you justify sexual assault by blaming the victims.

Because you claim that only a successful prosecution in court would mean that a rape has actually occurred.

These are typical rape apologist arguments.

That is bullshit.

I'm looking at the fact that these many of these women have been PROVEN to have been lying.

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Reply #1173 posted 07/31/16 8:01pm

SpinsterSister

CTron said:

Woah, this thread has taken a bit of a turn! I had to step away for a while following the release of the autopsy results as what they revealed, in all honesty, left me feeling a bit heartbroken. I felt that would be the answer, but it still hurt. Here's my take on things.

I think Prince had been using way longer than anyone of us wants to admit. His behaviour in the lead up to his death really is addict 101, when the stories you tell and the facade you create starts to slip, the walls close in and you know your game is up. You overdose on a plane but rock up at a club a few days later like nothing happened, you throw a party, you agree to rehab and/or treatment because your recent actions leave you no choice but to admit you need help, whether you believe it or not. Then, the night before when you know you might actually have to follow through with promises you've made and actually attempt to deal with your addiction, you take everything you can. Party time. You're afraid of what's to come, you worry you might not succeed, you fear the pain you'll have to endure, and you wonder how you'll manage to live without something you have come to depend upon. You feel ashamed, that you've disappointed everyone you know including yourself, and foolish that it ever had to come to this. You choose to forget for a while, one last time.

I'm sure he never intended for it to be this way, whether his use was legitimate or not. This was an accident, a mistake, as it is for all who find themselves here. No one aspires to addiction, it's not something you ever dream of becoming, it just happens. One day you have control and the next day you don't, and you're never sure where that line is until you have crossed it.

None of this changes my opinion of him, he's still the greatest artist I'll ever see or know in my lifetime. He wrote some of the most profound, meaningful and important songs I've ever had the privilledge of listening to. That last show I got to see, it felt like he ripped my heart out of my chest and sat it right there on the piano before putting it back with a memory. I'm grateful for all the times shared and those stilll to come because of all the incredible work he created and has now left for us. I'm sad it had to end this way...

Thanks CT for your post. I am glad that I am not the only one who believes what you posted. It takes a lot of guts to post what you did. He was frontin' during his last days - for the sake of saving face he had to portray that everything was alright but some of us knew different. I agree that no matter what comes out it will in no way affect the way I see/appreciate/love his music, the rawness of emotion and honesty in those lyrics...if anything it makes him even more relatable as a human being instead of just being an infallible "music god".

Need me some fuzzy love....and yes, I wear clear heels
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Reply #1174 posted 07/31/16 9:34pm

CTron

AnnaStesia10 said:

CTron said:

Woah, this thread has taken a bit of a turn! I had to step away for a while following the release of the autopsy results as what they revealed, in all honesty, left me feeling a bit heartbroken. I felt that would be the answer, but it still hurt. Here's my take on things.

I think Prince had been using way longer than anyone of us wants to admit. His behaviour in the lead up to his death really is addict 101, when the stories you tell and the facade you create starts to slip, the walls close in and you know your game is up. You overdose on a plane but rock up at a club a few days later like nothing happened, you throw a party, you agree to rehab and/or treatment because your recent actions leave you no choice but to admit you need help, whether you believe it or not. Then, the night before when you know you might actually have to follow through with promises you've made and actually attempt to deal with your addiction, you take everything you can. Party time. You're afraid of what's to come, you worry you might not succeed, you fear the pain you'll have to endure, and you wonder how you'll manage to live without something you have come to depend upon. You feel ashamed, that you've disappointed everyone you know including yourself, and foolish that it ever had to come to this. You choose to forget for a while, one last time.

I'm sure he never intended for it to be this way, whether his use was legitimate or not. This was an accident, a mistake, as it is for all who find themselves here. No one aspires to addiction, it's not something you ever dream of becoming, it just happens. One day you have control and the next day you don't, and you're never sure where that line is until you have crossed it.

None of this changes my opinion of him, he's still the greatest artist I'll ever see or know in my lifetime. He wrote some of the most profound, meaningful and important songs I've ever had the privilledge of listening to. That last show I got to see, it felt like he ripped my heart out of my chest and sat it right there on the piano before putting it back with a memory. I'm grateful for all the times shared and those stilll to come because of all the incredible work he created and has now left for us. I'm sad it had to end this way...

Wow CTron, I don't know why but your post got to me, but it did. I know we ALL do not know what really went down and are just expressing our thoughts and opinions, and we all have the right to do so. I know in time we will all know the truth. I am not going to lie I am in the camp that does not think he was an addict and think something else was going on.

+++

But...what you said is true in the fact that addicts do act this way. I have know some awesome people affected with emotional and physical pain some both at the same time, who were highly functioning you wouldn't think they were taking anything to deal with it because they acted normal or better than normal. Until it became a problem, then s**t hit the fan. What you said is right on. I just have not heard it broken down the way you said it in regards to Prince or if I did I blocked it out. But, at this point, your words hit something inside me, like what you said could be a strong possibility whether we all like it or not. Time will reveal the truth. I just wanted to tell you I hear u.

[Edited 7/31/16 8:51am]

Thank you for your reply. I appreciate you hearing me as I was expecting a few flames to get thrown my way. I'm sorry if what I wrote made you feel sad, it feels the same for me too.

Like you, my original thoughts were that something else was going on too. At the risk of sounding totally bonkers, when I saw him in 2012 I walked out of the show and said "he'll be dead in 5 years". There was no reason for me to think this, just a feeling I had that came from nowhere and one I couldn't shake, so on the day of his departure I felt certain he must have been sick. With the passing of time and revelation of the few known facts, this theory has made less sense. I truly do believe his sickness was addiction and that the few things we do know all point to this, his actions especially.

I don't believe any facts are being hidden. If he actually was suffering from some other type of illness, why wouldn't you reveal that? It would surely look a lot better than overdose and would put an end to all the crazy specualtion that has been going on these past few months. It's far from an ideal scenario to have a man so vocal in his aversion to drugs die because of them and goes against the principles he stood for. I think the reason for the so called secrecy and silence is an attempt to protect his legacy. We already know what we need to, however difficult it is to accept.


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Reply #1175 posted 07/31/16 10:03pm

CTron

SpinsterSister said:

CTron said:

Woah, this thread has taken a bit of a turn! I had to step away for a while following the release of the autopsy results as what they revealed, in all honesty, left me feeling a bit heartbroken. I felt that would be the answer, but it still hurt. Here's my take on things.

I think Prince had been using way longer than anyone of us wants to admit. His behaviour in the lead up to his death really is addict 101, when the stories you tell and the facade you create starts to slip, the walls close in and you know your game is up. You overdose on a plane but rock up at a club a few days later like nothing happened, you throw a party, you agree to rehab and/or treatment because your recent actions leave you no choice but to admit you need help, whether you believe it or not. Then, the night before when you know you might actually have to follow through with promises you've made and actually attempt to deal with your addiction, you take everything you can. Party time. You're afraid of what's to come, you worry you might not succeed, you fear the pain you'll have to endure, and you wonder how you'll manage to live without something you have come to depend upon. You feel ashamed, that you've disappointed everyone you know including yourself, and foolish that it ever had to come to this. You choose to forget for a while, one last time.

I'm sure he never intended for it to be this way, whether his use was legitimate or not. This was an accident, a mistake, as it is for all who find themselves here. No one aspires to addiction, it's not something you ever dream of becoming, it just happens. One day you have control and the next day you don't, and you're never sure where that line is until you have crossed it.

None of this changes my opinion of him, he's still the greatest artist I'll ever see or know in my lifetime. He wrote some of the most profound, meaningful and important songs I've ever had the privilledge of listening to. That last show I got to see, it felt like he ripped my heart out of my chest and sat it right there on the piano before putting it back with a memory. I'm grateful for all the times shared and those stilll to come because of all the incredible work he created and has now left for us. I'm sad it had to end this way...

Thanks CT for your post. I am glad that I am not the only one who believes what you posted. It takes a lot of guts to post what you did. He was frontin' during his last days - for the sake of saving face he had to portray that everything was alright but some of us knew different. I agree that no matter what comes out it will in no way affect the way I see/appreciate/love his music, the rawness of emotion and honesty in those lyrics...if anything it makes him even more relatable as a human being instead of just being an infallible "music god".

Thanks for your response, you're definitely not alone and I'm prepared for the criticism that will likely come my way. Frontin' indeed, couldn't have said it better myself. I don't think we'll ever know how much time it took to get to this but his behaviour suggests it certainly had. I wish I could slap and hug him all at the same time. The most frustrating thing about being human is that bad habits are so easily formed and take such effort to break

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Reply #1176 posted 08/01/16 4:02am

muleFunk

avatar

CTron said:

AnnaStesia10 said:

Wow CTron, I don't know why but your post got to me, but it did. I know we ALL do not know what really went down and are just expressing our thoughts and opinions, and we all have the right to do so. I know in time we will all know the truth. I am not going to lie I am in the camp that does not think he was an addict and think something else was going on.

+++

But...what you said is true in the fact that addicts do act this way. I have know some awesome people affected with emotional and physical pain some both at the same time, who were highly functioning you wouldn't think they were taking anything to deal with it because they acted normal or better than normal. Until it became a problem, then s**t hit the fan. What you said is right on. I just have not heard it broken down the way you said it in regards to Prince or if I did I blocked it out. But, at this point, your words hit something inside me, like what you said could be a strong possibility whether we all like it or not. Time will reveal the truth. I just wanted to tell you I hear u.

[Edited 7/31/16 8:51am]

Thank you for your reply. I appreciate you hearing me as I was expecting a few flames to get thrown my way. I'm sorry if what I wrote made you feel sad, it feels the same for me too.

Like you, my original thoughts were that something else was going on too. At the risk of sounding totally bonkers, when I saw him in 2012 I walked out of the show and said "he'll be dead in 5 years". There was no reason for me to think this, just a feeling I had that came from nowhere and one I couldn't shake, so on the day of his departure I felt certain he must have been sick. With the passing of time and revelation of the few known facts, this theory has made less sense. I truly do believe his sickness was addiction and that the few things we do know all point to this, his actions especially.

I don't believe any facts are being hidden. If he actually was suffering from some other type of illness, why wouldn't you reveal that? It would surely look a lot better than overdose and would put an end to all the crazy specualtion that has been going on these past few months. It's far from an ideal scenario to have a man so vocal in his aversion to drugs die because of them and goes against the principles he stood for. I think the reason for the so called secrecy and silence is an attempt to protect his legacy. We already know what we need to, however difficult it is to accept.


Do you think that he would reveal that he had leukemia especially if it developed rapidly?

There was a reason for the pain meds.

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Reply #1177 posted 08/01/16 5:17am

CTron

muleFunk said:

CTron said:

Thank you for your reply. I appreciate you hearing me as I was expecting a few flames to get thrown my way. I'm sorry if what I wrote made you feel sad, it feels the same for me too.

Like you, my original thoughts were that something else was going on too. At the risk of sounding totally bonkers, when I saw him in 2012 I walked out of the show and said "he'll be dead in 5 years". There was no reason for me to think this, just a feeling I had that came from nowhere and one I couldn't shake, so on the day of his departure I felt certain he must have been sick. With the passing of time and revelation of the few known facts, this theory has made less sense. I truly do believe his sickness was addiction and that the few things we do know all point to this, his actions especially.

I don't believe any facts are being hidden. If he actually was suffering from some other type of illness, why wouldn't you reveal that? It would surely look a lot better than overdose and would put an end to all the crazy specualtion that has been going on these past few months. It's far from an ideal scenario to have a man so vocal in his aversion to drugs die because of them and goes against the principles he stood for. I think the reason for the so called secrecy and silence is an attempt to protect his legacy. We already know what we need to, however difficult it is to accept.


Do you think that he would reveal that he had leukemia especially if it developed rapidly?

There was a reason for the pain meds.

I wasn't referring to what Prince did or did not say with that statement, but to what was found when conducting the autopsy. If leukemia or some other existing condition was present, chances are that would have showed and I can see no valid reason for not revealing that information. I'd feel a lot better to think that he was using pain meds because he was sick, as I'm sure would we all, so why would it make any sense to conceal it if that was the case? It doesn't. I can't speak for Prince but if I was to guess, I'm fairly certain he'd rather have died from anything other than an overdose, and that if the overdose was the result of treatment for something else, he and/or his family wouldn't have an issue with that being made known.

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Reply #1178 posted 08/01/16 5:54am

Mumio

avatar

CTron said:

If leukemia or some other existing condition was present, chances are that would have showed and I can see no valid reason for not revealing that information.


Cause of death means exact cause of death. It doesn't mean that underlying conditions/illnesses/disease processes have to be identified if they weren't the specific cause of death. The death report stated Fentanyl caused his death. What is unknown is why he was using fentanyl. The autopsy report the family was given has all relevant information on it, but the state (Minnesota) doesn't give that out publicly.

[Edited 8/1/16 5:58am]

Welcome to "the org", Mumio…they can have you, but I'll have your love in the end nod
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Reply #1179 posted 08/01/16 6:42am

CTron

Mumio said:

CTron said:

If leukemia or some other existing condition was present, chances are that would have showed and I can see no valid reason for not revealing that information.


Cause of death means exact cause of death. It doesn't mean that underlying conditions/illnesses/disease processes have to be identified if they weren't the specific cause of death. The death report stated Fentanyl caused his death. What is unknown is why he was using fentanyl. The autopsy report the family was given has all relevant information on it, but the state (Minnesota) doesn't give that out publicly.

[Edited 8/1/16 5:58am]

Correct. This kind of leads back to the point I was originally making, the family knows, and if there was any other possible reason for his death I can't imagine them deciding "let's just go with the fentanyl" - that seems absurd. My brother died of an overdose and believe me, if they'd found anything else as a possible cause it wouldn't be something I'd be hesitant to share, I'd tell anyone that cared to listen. In Prince's case there are many who would like to hear such a thing too, so I believe his family are silent because there's nothing more to say. It is what it is. Any further details would make a sad situation even more so. Speculating, but maybe it is harder to accept for some as they feel it makes him a lesser man. I do not feel this way

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Reply #1180 posted 08/01/16 6:56am

Mumio

avatar

CTron said:

Mumio said:


Cause of death means exact cause of death. It doesn't mean that underlying conditions/illnesses/disease processes have to be identified if they weren't the specific cause of death. The death report stated Fentanyl caused his death. What is unknown is why he was using fentanyl. The autopsy report the family was given has all relevant information on it, but the state (Minnesota) doesn't give that out publicly.

[Edited 8/1/16 5:58am]

Correct. This kind of leads back to the point I was originally making, the family knows, and if there was any other possible reason for his death I can't imagine them deciding "let's just go with the fentanyl" - that seems absurd. My brother died of an overdose and believe me, if they'd found anything else as a possible cause it wouldn't be something I'd be hesitant to share, I'd tell anyone that cared to listen. In Prince's case there are many who would like to hear such a thing too, so I believe his family are silent because there's nothing more to say. It is what it is. Any further details would make a sad situation even more so. Speculating, but maybe it is harder to accept for some as they feel it makes him a lesser man. I do not feel this way

I'm so sorry to hear about your brother hug

I think that they will not say anything that will mess with the legacy (therefore, the money flow) and the Fentanyl overdose might be the best face (according to them) to be left on his death. I do believe there was a terminal illness there, I have believed that from the beginning due to his health decline and that he was taking such a heavy duty drug prescribed for serious pain issues. I also absolutely believe what thatGIRLthang posted, saying he knew he was terminal.

Welcome to "the org", Mumio…they can have you, but I'll have your love in the end nod
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Reply #1181 posted 08/01/16 7:12am

CTron

Mumio said:

I'm so sorry to hear about your brother hug

I think that they will not say anything that will mess with the legacy (therefore, the money flow) and the Fentanyl overdose might be the best face (according to them) to be left on his death. I do believe there was a terminal illness there, I have believed that from the beginning due to his health decline and that he was taking such a heavy duty drug prescribed for serious pain issues. I also absolutely believe what thatGIRLthang posted, saying he knew he was terminal.

Appreciate your kind thoughts.

Honestly, I thought the same as you in the beginning and more than that, really wanted it to be true. Further thought, time and I guess acceptance of what has happened means I just can't believe that anymore. Totally agree with you that he knew time was running out, but I differ to you in what his reason for that feeling might have been.

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Reply #1182 posted 08/01/16 7:43am

rogifan

In the 2014 interview Prince did with Rolling Stone he talked about Michel Jackson, Amy Winehouse and Chris Brown (who he wanted to mentor). There was the passage below:

He seems to be hinting at past problems of his own, so I ask if he was ever self-destructive. His eyebrows shoot up. "Self-destructive? I mean ... do I look self-destructive?" This leads him to a disquisition on why he avoids talking about the past. "People say, 'Why did you change your name?' and this, that and the other. I'm here right now, doing what I'm doing right now, and all of the things I did led up to this. And there is no place else I'd rather be than right now. I want to be talking to you, and I want you to get it."

We talk about retirement. "I don't know what that is," he says. "There's always some way to serve. ... It feels like I'm teaching at a school, but also a student at one. I never felt like I had a job – does that make sense? So those words, 'job' and 'retire' ..."

I read that passage and think this is clearly a man that didn't want to leave this world and wasn't intentionally doing anything to hurt himself. I also think back to Hannah Welton's statement where she talked about how much "Uncle" Prince was looking forward to the birth of her child. Something caused him to feel desperate and helpless enough to turn to painkillers. We probably will never know what that something was.
Paisley Park is in your heart
#PrinceForever 💜
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Reply #1183 posted 08/01/16 8:04am

Mumio

avatar

rogifan said:

In the 2014 interview Prince did with Rolling Stone he talked about Michel Jackson, Amy Winehouse and Chris Brown (who he wanted to mentor). There was the passage below:
He seems to be hinting at past problems of his own, so I ask if he was ever self-destructive. His eyebrows shoot up. "Self-destructive? I mean ... do I look self-destructive?" This leads him to a disquisition on why he avoids talking about the past. "People say, 'Why did you change your name?' and this, that and the other. I'm here right now, doing what I'm doing right now, and all of the things I did led up to this. And there is no place else I'd rather be than right now. I want to be talking to you, and I want you to get it." We talk about retirement. "I don't know what that is," he says. "There's always some way to serve. ... It feels like I'm teaching at a school, but also a student at one. I never felt like I had a job – does that make sense? So those words, 'job' and 'retire' ..."

I read that passage and think this is clearly a man that didn't want to leave this world and wasn't intentionally doing anything to hurt himself. I also think back to Hannah Welton's statement where she talked about how much "Uncle" Prince was looking forward to the birth of her child. Something caused him to feel desperate and helpless enough to turn to painkillers. We probably will never know what that something was.


I completely agree with this. Yes, there was a Fentanyl overdose that caused death. But there was more going on and it wasn't drug abuse but (imo) a severe pain situation he was trying to deal with.


Welcome to "the org", Mumio…they can have you, but I'll have your love in the end nod
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