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Reply #180 posted 06/12/16 3:16pm

marshmullow


[Edited 6/12/16 15:34pm]
Feelings... that sums it up.
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Reply #181 posted 06/12/16 3:24pm

endiadj

nonesuch said:



endiadj said:


nonesuch said:


Freedom can appear to be dangerous to people. Prince was seeking freedom in all possible ways. Once he gained most of what he was seeking he was somehow lost. That happens to quite a few people. Once people are free of whatever they felt supressed by, they're looking out for the handrail that they used to rely on. I think he had lost somewhere on his way to personal and artistic freedom and need religion as his personal handrail. It's always those who are not free that want to supress other people's right to choose. What did he do once he gained freedom from the "evil empire Warner Bros."? Not much of significance, right?



maybe his latter music was significant to him even if the gp didn't take to it.

Maybe. Prince mattered to the "gp" when he was adventurous, didn't he? And I can understand why the "gp" didn't take to Prince for this whole man-woman-shit that he had put into "The Rainbow Cildren".



he became a different person over time. no longer the lace wearing, overtly sexualized performer he was in his youth. his beliefs changed. his music changed. his performances changed. he was in a new phase in life and music. obviously the direction he wanted to go in but not a direction the gp expected or followed with him.

i can't name many older musicians who've maintained chart success tho.
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Reply #182 posted 06/12/16 3:44pm

nonesuch

endiadj said:

nonesuch said:

Maybe. Prince mattered to the "gp" when he was adventurous, didn't he? And I can understand why the "gp" didn't take to Prince for this whole man-woman-shit that he had put into "The Rainbow Cildren".

he became a different person over time. no longer the lace wearing, overtly sexualized performer he was in his youth. his beliefs changed. his music changed. his performances changed. he was in a new phase in life and music. obviously the direction he wanted to go in but not a direction the gp expected or followed with him. i can't name many older musicians who've maintained chart success tho.

Who care's about chart-success? Who cares about the "gp"? At the time when most poeple took to Prince, he was a symbol of a certain kind of freedom. At the time he had become dogmatic, he was the opposite of what he once stood for. He alienated a lot of people. Now, quite a few people grow spirtually and psychologically as the get older. But that doesn't mean that they preach on other people. In the best case it means that they get through life more calmly and, if they're lucky, more wisely. With Prince it seemed as if he was every bit a radical as he used to be. Not in his way, though, but in a guided way.

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Reply #183 posted 06/12/16 4:05pm

rogifan

nonesuch said:

I don't care whether he was or wasn't comfortable with homosexuality. No one ist forced to watch a homosexual act and no one is forced to partake in homosexual acts. If it's not your cup of tea, just brew your own. But shut the fuck up when it comes to "teach" people of what you want your god to tell you about sexuality. I don't think that the Stevie Wonder-story is of any significance, apart from the fact that Prince might have had a problem with physical contact generally. Or maybe Prince was stupid, because only an idiot would deny a sightless person the right to see by touching.


Hey I just posted it because it's possible he might not have been comfortable being intimate (even if it's just holding hands) with a man. Nothing wrong with that, IMO. I'm not aware of Prince ever doing anything specific for the LGBT community or really speaking out on gay rights pro or con. It just might not have been something he was interested in.
Paisley Park is in your heart
#PrinceForever 💜
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Reply #184 posted 06/12/16 4:07pm

rogifan

GirlBrother said:

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that Prince was a bisexual whom was in heavy denial of his capacity to find other men sexually attractive.

Why do I get the feeling it's gay people who are convinced he was secretly gay or bi? I swear to god they think everyone is secretly gay. lol Anyway I have family and friends from Minneapolis (my sister was a waitress and used to wait on Prince all the time) and they'll tell you in no uncertain terms what team he batted regardless of how he dressed.
[Edited 6/12/16 16:11pm]
Paisley Park is in your heart
#PrinceForever 💜
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Reply #185 posted 06/12/16 4:27pm

CROWNS1

I think if Prince was a gay man the rumor mill would have caught it years ago. He had some strange views and I think a tendency to think everyone should believe the same things he did, but ultimately I think his message was that of unity and personal responsibility and a strong work ethic. Some have suggested that he hired women and whites for his band so that he would be more accepted in mainstream music, and that may be partially true, but I chose to believe he did it for a higher purpose, that is a show of unity.

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Reply #186 posted 06/12/16 11:39pm

nonesuch

rogifan said:

GirlBrother said:
The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that Prince was a bisexual whom was in heavy denial of his capacity to find other men sexually attractive.
Why do I get the feeling it's gay people who are convinced he was secretly gay or bi? I swear to god they think everyone is secretly gay. lol Anyway I have family and friends from Minneapolis (my sister was a waitress and used to wait on Prince all the time) and they'll tell you in no uncertain terms what team he batted regardless of how he dressed. [Edited 6/12/16 16:11pm]

Two quotes come to mind:

"Facts are stupid things" (Ronald Reagen, Repubican National Convention, 1988)

"People wake up, figure it out, religious fanatics around and about, the Court House, the State House, the Congress, the White House. Criminal saints with a heavenly mission, a nation enraptured by pure superstition" ("When The Lie's So Big", Frank Zappa, 1988)

It's been reported by at least two different journalists who talked with him that Prince did blabber about god not wanting a man to be with a man. If that is to be understood as a message of unity or a message of personal responsibility, then my brain doesn't work properly anymore, I'm afraid.

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Reply #187 posted 06/13/16 8:01am

CROWNS1

nonesuch said:

rogifan said:

GirlBrother said: Why do I get the feeling it's gay people who are convinced he was secretly gay or bi? I swear to god they think everyone is secretly gay. lol Anyway I have family and friends from Minneapolis (my sister was a waitress and used to wait on Prince all the time) and they'll tell you in no uncertain terms what team he batted regardless of how he dressed. [Edited 6/12/16 16:11pm]

Two quotes come to mind:

"Facts are stupid things" (Ronald Reagen, Repubican National Convention, 1988)

"People wake up, figure it out, religious fanatics around and about, the Court House, the State House, the Congress, the White House. Criminal saints with a heavenly mission, a nation enraptured by pure superstition" ("When The Lie's So Big", Frank Zappa, 1988)

It's been reported by at least two different journalists who talked with him that Prince did blabber about god not wanting a man to be with a man. If that is to be understood as a message of unity or a message of personal responsibility, then my brain doesn't work properly anymore, I'm afraid.

Maybe your brain isn't working properly. So he said that. That was his belief at the time based on his 'religion'...but I didn't see him saying derogatory things, or excluding people. People are allowed to have their beliefs, it's how they act on those beliefs. Not everyone in the world is going to agree w/ homosexuality, but no one should go around singling people out and mistreating them. Not everyone is going to like me, and that's ok, as long as they don't personally attack me. And yes, he did have a message of personal responsiblity because he was able to create a musical empire starting from when he was a child and he did it all on his own because of a strong work ethic and depending on no one but himself.

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Reply #188 posted 06/13/16 9:51am

LeeChristmas

avatar

I think if Prince truely were homophobic he wouldn't have invited Elton John to perform on stage with him in 2007, nor would he have appeared on Ellen, even going so far as to take his guitar off and put it around her neck after his performance, back in 2009.

Lurking since '07
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Reply #189 posted 06/13/16 10:51am

nonesuch

CROWNS1 said:

nonesuch said:

Two quotes come to mind:

"Facts are stupid things" (Ronald Reagen, Repubican National Convention, 1988)

"People wake up, figure it out, religious fanatics around and about, the Court House, the State House, the Congress, the White House. Criminal saints with a heavenly mission, a nation enraptured by pure superstition" ("When The Lie's So Big", Frank Zappa, 1988)

It's been reported by at least two different journalists who talked with him that Prince did blabber about god not wanting a man to be with a man. If that is to be understood as a message of unity or a message of personal responsibility, then my brain doesn't work properly anymore, I'm afraid.

Maybe your brain isn't working properly. So he said that. That was his belief at the time based on his 'religion'...but I didn't see him saying derogatory things, or excluding people. People are allowed to have their beliefs, it's how they act on those beliefs. Not everyone in the world is going to agree w/ homosexuality, but no one should go around singling people out and mistreating them. Not everyone is going to like me, and that's ok, as long as they don't personally attack me. And yes, he did have a message of personal responsiblity because he was able to create a musical empire starting from when he was a child and he did it all on his own because of a strong work ethic and depending on no one but himself.

Thank you for your diagnosis! What's to agree with homosexuality? Could you please elaborate?

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Reply #190 posted 06/13/16 11:20am

darkroman

nonesuch said:

CROWNS1 said:

Maybe your brain isn't working properly. So he said that. That was his belief at the time based on his 'religion'...but I didn't see him saying derogatory things, or excluding people. People are allowed to have their beliefs, it's how they act on those beliefs. Not everyone in the world is going to agree w/ homosexuality, but no one should go around singling people out and mistreating them. Not everyone is going to like me, and that's ok, as long as they don't personally attack me. And yes, he did have a message of personal responsiblity because he was able to create a musical empire starting from when he was a child and he did it all on his own because of a strong work ethic and depending on no one but himself.

Thank you for your diagnosis! What's to agree with homosexuality? Could you please elaborate?

.

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Reply #191 posted 06/13/16 11:30am

nonesuch

darkroman said:

nonesuch said:

Thank you for your diagnosis! What's to agree with homosexuality? Could you please elaborate?

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Sorry, darkroman, but it looks like we're moving into very dangerous Donald Trump-territory here. As much as I disagree with the fellow who claims that one can or cannot "agree" with homosexuality, I wouldn't deny anyone the right to her/his belief. Don't know where you got that "all Muslims hate everyone"-bullshit from, but it is really utterly stupid to be saying something like that. Get a grip, we live in a multipolar world. The black and white-painted world doesn't exist anymore.

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Reply #192 posted 06/13/16 11:48am

endiadj

people can believe whatever they want as long as they don't express those beliefs through violence.
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Reply #193 posted 06/13/16 12:37pm

witnessmystyle

P was entitled to his opinions, althou at a certain point they certainly became highly influenced by the small minded lackluster bigots he surrounded himself with. As I recall frm looking at his astrology chart he was highly susceptable to being influenced by ppl closest to him and I thought he suffered terribly because of this. I don't believe he himself was ever truely bigoted. Also, he did not ACTIVELY attempt to influence PUBLIC politics/policy (or call for action) w/his religious beliefs. Nor, did he advocate for anyone else PUBLICLY to do so. His beliefs were his own. It's always interesting how ppl who claim to be open minded believe that everyone else should be/think exactly like them-or else. The fact is that in most all animal species; there is bi-sexuality, there is not ONE species that is ONLY Homosexual, besides "modern" humans, who have been corraled into this limited thinking due to "society" and religion which needs endless procreation to increase income from church members/taxes/or soldiers to fight battles for rich ppl.

As far as the Stevie Wonder story and the absurd claims above that only a homophobe or a "stupid" person would not allow a blind person to touch you, they are idiotic. EVERY PERSON HAS A RIGHT TO THEIR PERSONAL BOUNDRIES AND ALLOWING WHO CAN AND CANNOT TOUCH YOUR BODY. No one has a "right" to do anything to you physically, without your permission! Moreover, P. didnt need to explain why to anyone. Nor, does anyone else for that matter. People have their own private reasons for things, it is no ones business. It is your body and is your sacred space, PERIOD.

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Reply #194 posted 06/13/16 12:47pm

214

darkroman said:

nonesuch said:

Thank you for your diagnosis! What's to agree with homosexuality? Could you please elaborate?

.

Comments deleted - langebleu - moderator

Comments deleted - langebleu - moderator

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Reply #195 posted 06/13/16 1:32pm

nonesuch

witnessmystyle said:

P was entitled to his opinions, althou at a certain point they certainly became highly influenced by the small minded lackluster bigots he surrounded himself with. As I recall frm looking at his astrology chart he was highly susceptable to being influenced by ppl closest to him and I thought he suffered terribly because of this. I don't believe he himself was ever truely bigoted. Also, he did not ACTIVELY attempt to influence PUBLIC politics/policy (or call for action) w/his religious beliefs. Nor, did he advocate for anyone else PUBLICLY to do so. His beliefs were his own. It's always interesting how ppl who claim to be open minded believe that everyone else should be/think exactly like them-or else. The fact is that in most all animal species; there is bi-sexuality, there is not ONE species that is ONLY Homosexual, besides "modern" humans, who have been corraled into this limited thinking due to "society" and religion which needs endless procreation to increase income from church members/taxes/or soldiers to fight battles for rich ppl.

As far as the Stevie Wonder story and the absurd claims above that only a homophobe or a "stupid" person would not allow a blind person to touch you, they are idiotic. EVERY PERSON HAS A RIGHT TO THEIR PERSONAL BOUNDRIES AND ALLOWING WHO CAN AND CANNOT TOUCH YOUR BODY. No one has a "right" to do anything to you physically, without your permission! Moreover, P. didnt need to explain why to anyone. Nor, does anyone else for that matter. People have their own private reasons for things, it is no ones business. It is your body and is your sacred space, PERIOD.

Not sure about Prince not actively attempting to influence the public with his religious beliefs. Wasn't he ACTIVELY ministering door-to-door at one point? What would you call that?

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Reply #196 posted 06/13/16 2:18pm

witnessmystyle

nonesuch said:

witnessmystyle said:

P was entitled to his opinions, althou at a certain point they certainly became highly influenced by the small minded lackluster bigots he surrounded himself with. As I recall frm looking at his astrology chart he was highly susceptable to being influenced by ppl closest to him and I thought he suffered terribly because of this. I don't believe he himself was ever truely bigoted. Also, he did not ACTIVELY attempt to influence PUBLIC politics/policy (or call for action) w/his religious beliefs. Nor, did he advocate for anyone else PUBLICLY to do so. His beliefs were his own. It's always interesting how ppl who claim to be open minded believe that everyone else should be/think exactly like them-or else. The fact is that in most all animal species; there is bi-sexuality, there is not ONE species that is ONLY Homosexual, besides "modern" humans, who have been corraled into this limited thinking due to "society" and religion which needs endless procreation to increase income from church members/taxes/or soldiers to fight battles for rich ppl.

As far as the Stevie Wonder story and the absurd claims above that only a homophobe or a "stupid" person would not allow a blind person to touch you, they are idiotic. EVERY PERSON HAS A RIGHT TO THEIR PERSONAL BOUNDRIES AND ALLOWING WHO CAN AND CANNOT TOUCH YOUR BODY. No one has a "right" to do anything to you physically, without your permission! Moreover, P. didnt need to explain why to anyone. Nor, does anyone else for that matter. People have their own private reasons for things, it is no ones business. It is your body and is your sacred space, PERIOD.

Not sure about Prince not actively attempting to influence the public with his religious beliefs. Wasn't he ACTIVELY ministering door-to-door at one point? What would you call that?

Until I see proof that he publicly spoke directly on the question of "homosexuality" negatively, I have no reason to imagine that that was the primary reason/topic when he was trying to convert people door-to-door. It seems to me from my limited knowledge of JW; they are far more abusive/discrim towards women (as was P in his music). Yet, I never see these threads going there. Did prince EVER put out any visual material that could be considered homophobic? I don't think so, quite the opposite. If anything his OVERALL body of work seems to me to be very inclusive. What irks me about the current state of identity politics is they often seem to be started/pushed by privileged white males who show little if any concern towards the daily REALITY & violence against animals, women and people of color in the US which statistically is much worse than other groups. Until I see Native American or African American woman who are gay deeply concerned about this type of trivial thing (given the REALITY of life for most working class Americans), it's really difficult to not see this as nothing but priviledge whiny (99% of the time white) Yuppie$ thinking somebody has a different opinion that differs from theres' or horror of horrors might somehow in their arrogant minds impact their privilege.

[Edited 6/13/16 14:49pm]

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Reply #197 posted 06/13/16 3:18pm

nonesuch

witnessmystyle said:

nonesuch said:

Not sure about Prince not actively attempting to influence the public with his religious beliefs. Wasn't he ACTIVELY ministering door-to-door at one point? What would you call that?

Until I see proof that he publicly spoke directly on the question of "homosexuality" negatively, I have no reason to imagine that that was the primary reason/topic when he was trying to convert people door-to-door. It seems to me from my limited knowledge of JW; they are far more abusive/discrim towards women (as was P in his music). Yet, I never see these threads going there. Did prince EVER put out any visual material that could be considered homophobic? I don't think so, quite the opposite. If anything his OVERALL body of work seems to me to be very inclusive. What irks me about the current state of identy politics is they often seem to be started/pushed by white males who show little if any concern towards the daily violence against women and people of color in the US which statistically is much worse than ANY other group. Until I see Native American or African American woman who are gay deeply concerned about this type of trivial thing (given the REALITY of life for most working class Americans), it's really difficult to not see this as nothing but priviledge whiney (99% of the time white) Yuppie$ thinking somebody has a different opinion that they view as un-PC, and they are superior and know better.

I understand what you're saying. I'm not a person of color, but there are situations in which I wish I wasn't white. I also understand your rage on the "political correctness" that is in high demand by the so called Priviledged. Please try to understand that I personally never exclude anyone based on color, sexual orientation, gender or income. In fact, my current boyfriend is struggeling with his identity as a gay man of color and he's anything but wealthy. But he's a wonderful human being. I wouldn't dare question for a moment the obvious violence against people of color in the US (and elsewhere) and the chauvinistic grimace of our western societies with which women are being confronted all the time. But please do not measure off one group of mistreated people against another group of mistreated people. We're all in this together and until we learn to respect each other in EVERY WAY, we ultimately will all live in a war zone. There are forces that still want people to believe that the world is to be devided in black and white, good and bad etc., after all. We must not let that happen anymore. I never ever said that Prince was anti-gay from beginning to end. In fact, I found him to be really welcoming towards all kinds of people up until the Lovesexy-era. The vibe he conveyed after that was not my cup of tea, but what the hell. But once he was pointing to the bible when it came to his relationship with Wendy & Lisa or gay people or women (The Rainbow Children) in general, his vibe got alarming. As long as any group of people are suffering from oppression, none of us are free to be what we are. I don't know you and I don't know your reality of life as I live a couple of thousand miles away, but please accept my candor towards you.

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Reply #198 posted 06/13/16 5:05pm

Mercurybebe

avatar

RiotPaisley said:

gstq said:



iloveyeshua said:


RiotPaisley said:
I can only speak for myself, but yeah his religion was hard to work with. I don't know what he honestly felt but I know what JWs think so... I could look past it for sure cuz i just love him and refuse to believe he honestly thought that. I will ignore any attempt to tell me otherwise. I definitely forgave him for some of the hurtful stuff I disagreed with and would have loved to talk about it with him.

In the end? He was an artist. So what if he personally disagreed with someone's lifestyle/sexual preference? He clearly had love for everyone as a human being. Isn't that enough? Disagreeing with a lifestyle preference doesn't make anyone hateful or mean. It just means they use their brain and are entitled to disagree. Freedom of speech, religion and the press. It's ok to agree to disagree. What's to forgive?


well said



What's to forgive? Basically, you can disagree with what I do but you don't need to voice that. So I guess voicing that you disagree with my lifestyle that you really have nothing to do with. My problem really stemmed from when he was trying to get Wendy to "change her ways" both her sexuality and her religion. I don't think that's cool. Especially since he obviously did love everyone, why even state that you have a problem with it? It just makes others think it's ok to voice their opinions on it and some are not so kind. Read the comments sections of any news article on the subject of homosexuality or even race or even women's rights and see the boiling fury that exists here for no damn reason.

If you think I am going to "hell" for it- keep it to yourself but let me live freely like everyone else. Don't add fuel to the fires of hell on Earth. I'm not hurting you or anyone else because I enjoy the companionship of the same sex.

I personally don't even understand what there is to disagree with in the first place. LOVE IS LOVE.

PREACH!!!!
I never meant to cause you any sorrow...
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Reply #199 posted 06/13/16 7:08pm

witnessmystyle

nonesuch said:

witnessmystyle said:

Until I see proof that he publicly spoke directly on the question of "homosexuality" negatively, I have no reason to imagine that that was the primary reason/topic when he was trying to convert people door-to-door. It seems to me from my limited knowledge of JW; they are far more abusive/discrim towards women (as was P in his music). Yet, I never see these threads going there. Did prince EVER put out any visual material that could be considered homophobic? I don't think so, quite the opposite. If anything his OVERALL body of work seems to me to be very inclusive. What irks me about the current state of identy politics is they often seem to be started/pushed by white males who show little if any concern towards the daily violence against women and people of color in the US which statistically is much worse than ANY other group. Until I see Native American or African American woman who are gay deeply concerned about this type of trivial thing (given the REALITY of life for most working class Americans), it's really difficult to not see this as nothing but priviledge whiney (99% of the time white) Yuppie$ thinking somebody has a different opinion that they view as un-PC, and they are superior and know better.

I understand what you're saying. I'm not a person of color, but there are situations in which I wish I wasn't white. I also understand your rage on the "political correctness" that is in high demand by the so called Priviledged. Please try to understand that I personally never exclude anyone based on color, sexual orientation, gender or income. In fact, my current boyfriend is struggeling with his identity as a gay man of color and he's anything but wealthy. But he's a wonderful human being. I wouldn't dare question for a moment the obvious violence against people of color in the US (and elsewhere) and the chauvinistic grimace of our western societies with which women are being confronted all the time. But please do not measure off one group of mistreated people against another group of mistreated people. We're all in this together and until we learn to respect each other in EVERY WAY, we ultimately will all live in a war zone. There are forces that still want people to believe that the world is to be devided in black and white, good and bad etc., after all. We must not let that happen anymore. I never ever said that Prince was anti-gay from beginning to end. In fact, I found him to be really welcoming towards all kinds of people up until the Lovesexy-era. The vibe he conveyed after that was not my cup of tea, but what the hell. But once he was pointing to the bible when it came to his relationship with Wendy & Lisa or gay people or women (The Rainbow Children) in general, his vibe got alarming. As long as any group of people are suffering from oppression, none of us are free to be what we are. I don't know you and I don't know your reality of life as I live a couple of thousand miles away, but please accept my candor towards you.

I absolutely agree with the overall sentiment that you are expressing and statements. I will say that I have had the privilege to travel to many countries and each has its own unique history and issues. Also, all of our Histories effect us individually wheather we are concious of it or not. The church has played a very specific role in America for African Americans. I am not sure that many white people here or in other countries really understand that. I have real issues with most organized religions because they are ALL Patriarchal. However, I see a great distinction between someones personal beliefs (and the power they wield with that) and an Institution. I have never heard one story of P. saying anything directly anti-gay. If you are referring to his quotes where he tapped the Bible... well I would say that it could apply to "heterosexuals' too since sodomy is not an exclusively "homosexual" act and many heterosexual men and women enjoy it. To me that alleged quote from him seemed really like something he just spewed in the moment and how Patriarchal his definition of sex (PIV) was. Again, there is a huge difference between someones personal belief and them advocating laws/policy. Also, he certainly had many lesbian/gay friends he worked with throughout the years. If anything during his fundamentalist years, he had my profound sympathy because I beieve in a way he was punishing himself for what he believed where "sins" of his youth. To me, it's those types of things that I judge someone on. I hope your partner can come to a place of love and acceptance.

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Reply #200 posted 06/13/16 7:11pm

luvsexy4all

" like them mens..but I likes their moms betta"

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Reply #201 posted 06/13/16 11:48pm

nonesuch

witnessmystyle said:

nonesuch said:

I understand what you're saying. I'm not a person of color, but there are situations in which I wish I wasn't white. I also understand your rage on the "political correctness" that is in high demand by the so called Priviledged. Please try to understand that I personally never exclude anyone based on color, sexual orientation, gender or income. In fact, my current boyfriend is struggeling with his identity as a gay man of color and he's anything but wealthy. But he's a wonderful human being. I wouldn't dare question for a moment the obvious violence against people of color in the US (and elsewhere) and the chauvinistic grimace of our western societies with which women are being confronted all the time. But please do not measure off one group of mistreated people against another group of mistreated people. We're all in this together and until we learn to respect each other in EVERY WAY, we ultimately will all live in a war zone. There are forces that still want people to believe that the world is to be devided in black and white, good and bad etc., after all. We must not let that happen anymore. I never ever said that Prince was anti-gay from beginning to end. In fact, I found him to be really welcoming towards all kinds of people up until the Lovesexy-era. The vibe he conveyed after that was not my cup of tea, but what the hell. But once he was pointing to the bible when it came to his relationship with Wendy & Lisa or gay people or women (The Rainbow Children) in general, his vibe got alarming. As long as any group of people are suffering from oppression, none of us are free to be what we are. I don't know you and I don't know your reality of life as I live a couple of thousand miles away, but please accept my candor towards you.

I absolutely agree with the overall sentiment that you are expressing and statements. I will say that I have had the privilege to travel to many countries and each has its own unique history and issues. Also, all of our Histories effect us individually wheather we are concious of it or not. The church has played a very specific role in America for African Americans. I am not sure that many white people here or in other countries really understand that. I have real issues with most organized religions because they are ALL Patriarchal. However, I see a great distinction between someones personal beliefs (and the power they wield with that) and an Institution. I have never heard one story of P. saying anything directly anti-gay. If you are referring to his quotes where he tapped the Bible... well I would say that it could apply to "heterosexuals' too since sodomy is not an exclusively "homosexual" act and many heterosexual men and women enjoy it. To me that alleged quote from him seemed really like something he just spewed in the moment and how Patriarchal his definition of sex (PIV) was. Again, there is a huge difference between someones personal belief and them advocating laws/policy. Also, he certainly had many lesbian/gay friends he worked with throughout the years. If anything during his fundamentalist years, he had my profound sympathy because I beieve in a way he was punishing himself for what he believed where "sins" of his youth. To me, it's those types of things that I judge someone on. I hope your partner can come to a place of love and acceptance.

Thank you for your reply. I find it difficult to "judge" on anyone as long as she/he is not judging on anyone else. Having said that, it's probably not apllicable to be judgemental on anything at all. People are being what they are and ultimately there's no reason for me to raise my voice against any one of us. Indeed, I have a strong feeling that it is mostly weak people who judge on other people. To be judgemental is an expression of fear. But then again, do I have a right to feel that judging on anyone is an expression of fear? The whole idea of one breed of people thinking that they're superior to others is the origin of all destruction. The burning cross in the land of the cotton bears the same symbolism as the bullets that killed 50 people in Orlando. Unfortunately, mankind hasn't evolved far enough yet to accept that there is no us and them. There's only us and as I had said earlier, we're all in this together. If a cop thinks he's doing a service to "his" society by killing a man of color, he's directing a bullet in my direction as well, because I may not apply to his conception of being an acceptable part of "his" society. But in fact we all are. Life isn't judging on anything. Nature isn't judging on anything. Life is. Period. In all its different glory. So, let's hope that being judgemental on anything will soon be a thing of the past, so that we can get along and feel as worthy as anyone else. I am sure that Prince did struggle with a lot of personal stuff. As much as any of us. And maybe he was as weak as any of us. Maybe his weakness forced him to point to the bible more than once in his latter years. Maybe he gained power and money and a superior understanding of music to overshadow his weak side. If that's the case he had a lot more in common with the average gay man than he might have prefered to. I like weak people, they make me feel comfortable, because I am as weak as anyone.

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Reply #202 posted 06/14/16 6:02am

CROWNS1

nonesuch said:

CROWNS1 said:

Maybe your brain isn't working properly. So he said that. That was his belief at the time based on his 'religion'...but I didn't see him saying derogatory things, or excluding people. People are allowed to have their beliefs, it's how they act on those beliefs. Not everyone in the world is going to agree w/ homosexuality, but no one should go around singling people out and mistreating them. Not everyone is going to like me, and that's ok, as long as they don't personally attack me. And yes, he did have a message of personal responsiblity because he was able to create a musical empire starting from when he was a child and he did it all on his own because of a strong work ethic and depending on no one but himself.

Thank you for your diagnosis! What's to agree with homosexuality? Could you please elaborate?

Look, it seems like you are just looking to pick an argument. I mean just what I say, you chose to take it how you want to. I have no problems with anyone's choices, the only things that are my business are my choices (and before you get your panties twisted, NO, I do NOT believe being homosexual is a choice, but how we react to these issues, is a choice) I stand with my comments that people are entitled to believe whatever they want to believe as long as they do no harm to any person. I understand you may be upset about current events, but this is not the place or people to take it out on, and certainly Prince is not the person to take your anger out on. Peace and love to you.

[Edited 6/14/16 6:28am]

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Reply #203 posted 06/14/16 11:06am

nonesuch

CROWNS1 said:

nonesuch said:

Thank you for your diagnosis! What's to agree with homosexuality? Could you please elaborate?

Look, it seems like you are just looking to pick an argument. I mean just what I say, you chose to take it how you want to. I have no problems with anyone's choices, the only things that are my business are my choices (and before you get your panties twisted, NO, I do NOT believe being homosexual is a choice, but how we react to these issues, is a choice) I stand with my comments that people are entitled to believe whatever they want to believe as long as they do no harm to any person. I understand you may be upset about current events, but this is not the place or people to take it out on, and certainly Prince is not the person to take your anger out on. Peace and love to you.

[Edited 6/14/16 6:28am]

Whatever you think, however you understand any written word is YOUR CHOICE, I'll co-sign that. As far as "current events" are concerned, I am certainly outraged. It should be clear by now that the Orlando-killer was not in any way motivated by religion, but Prince let himself being motivated by religion in his view on quite a few social-issues. Thus, I find it rather presumtuous of you to tell me in a roundabout way that this is not the forum to discuss it. You feel free to post anything you like here, don't you? How can you tell somebody else what not to post? Having said that, you're entitled to state whatever you like. I might just not agree with it.

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Reply #204 posted 06/14/16 11:13am

rogifan

LeeChristmas said:

I think if Prince truely were homophobic he wouldn't have invited Elton John to perform on stage with him in 2007, nor would he have appeared on Ellen, even going so far as to take his guitar off and put it around her neck after his performance, back in 2009.


There's a difference between being homophobic and actively supporting the LGBT community. Heck Elton John performed at Rush Limbaugh's wedding. I don't think Prince was homophobic at all but I also don't think he actively supported the LGBT community. I don't remember him ever speaking out in support of gay marriage; when John Bream at the Star Tribune asked him about Minnesota legalizing gay marriage he refused to comment.
Paisley Park is in your heart
#PrinceForever 💜
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Reply #205 posted 06/14/16 2:21pm

johno2

Im gay and I love pretty much all of Prine's work, his religion or anything didn't bother me he was still a person making good music, I bought my first record 12 years ago; musicology and that was it, everything about the way his music sounded/s just made me want to hear more,favouite album changes daily,I recently re visited the gold experience and was amazed that I skipped past this record its great!!! I also really like his final two records especially phase 1,even got a tattoo after he died of the 'yes' symbol. So all in all from my view on prince I can say that im a die hard fan but I don't this sexuality really changes your music taste a few of my gay friends love heavy metal
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Reply #206 posted 06/14/16 3:10pm

GirlBrother

avatar

rogifan said:

GirlBrother said:

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that Prince was a bisexual whom was in heavy denial of his capacity to find other men sexually attractive.

Why do I get the feeling it's gay people who are convinced he was secretly gay or bi?


Because it takes one to know one.
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Reply #207 posted 06/14/16 3:13pm

nonesuch

GirlBrother said:

rogifan said:
Why do I get the feeling it's gay people who are convinced he was secretly gay or bi?
Because it takes one to know one.

Well said.

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Reply #208 posted 06/14/16 3:37pm

rainbowchild

avatar

nonesuch said:



GirlBrother said:


rogifan said:
Why do I get the feeling it's gay people who are convinced he was secretly gay or bi?

Because it takes one to know one.

Well said.



I won't be surprised if he even came out as transgender like Caitlyn Jenner.
"Just like the sun, the Rainbow Children rise."

"Am I black or white? Am I straight or gay?"

"We had fun, didn't we?"
-Prince (1958-2016) 4ever in my life
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Reply #209 posted 06/14/16 4:41pm

joeycocopuffs

avatar

rainbowchild said:

nonesuch said:

Well said.

I won't be surprised if he even came out as transgender like Caitlyn Jenner.

I would love that so soo frickin much omfg.

http://castijes.tumblr.com/

I draw fanarts n' shit..
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