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Reply #120 posted 05/31/16 1:45pm

herrherr

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savvy said:

I don’t think anyone said Prince was incapable of anything but hatred. Yes, you are correct in that the letters H-A-T-R-E-D aren’t contained in the words “homophobe” or “bigot”. That sounds like a very bold and wayward interpretation of the concept that you are a bigot if you don’t support equal rights for human beings. When did Prince denounce “biology”? More importantly, why would he when biology actually supports his position? Intolerance is the root of bigotry. Like not tolerating those who just don’t happen to buy into a “homosexuality is normal behavior” narrative? That kind of intolerance? The kind of intolerance that forces one to place the rather ugly label of “bigot” posthumously on a man that spent a 40 year career writing about love and spirituality? The kind of intolerance that emphatically denies the existence of even a remote possibility that a man can see homosexuality as unnatural, but can still treat homosexuals warmly, compassionately, and respectfully? Is that the sort of intolerance you're referring to?

[Edited 5/31/16 13:13pm]

[Edited 5/31/16 13:19pm]

Referring to homosexuality as "the dirty world" signals compassion and respect? Telling.

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Reply #121 posted 05/31/16 1:57pm

savvy

DiscoBallz said:

savvy said:

Ok. Great. So long as you can own up to your bigotry, that's all that matters. Thanks.

[Edited 5/31/16 13:22pm]

If I were a bigot, I wouldn't be spending money on and still listening to Prince. I've no intolerance when it comes to religious folks, though I do disagree with their opinions on equality. See the difference?

-

It's already been said here what Wendy's experience with Prince was in 2004. I'm glad they got past the issue. That doesn't negate the fact that Prince had, at various points in his career, made comments that were rooted in bigotry. As previously mentioned, folks are multi-layered. You really want to act like people are crucifying Prince because it seems you're pretty enmeshed in your feelings. But that's not accurate. smile

No, you wouldn't do that. You do however use the sweeping generalizations of "homophobe" and "bigot" (bigoted behavior in itself and using words that are just a bit inflamatory) to describe Prince and Christians/JW etc. (and for the record I'm more or less atheist, so no horse in the race) that simply don't see homosexuality as natural.

Most of the religions in that range, generally speaking, adopt the philosophy of compassion and generosity to anyone they see as a sinner (see Mary Magdalen AKA Our Lady of the Blessed Streetwalkers). Now I’m sure someone on your side of it will bring up the likes of Westboro Baptist. Really? See them as mainstream Christians do you? Another great counter might be, “JW is hardly mainstream Christianity.” Valid point. Good point. However what is certain is while they aren’t mainstream, and they may urge, (they may look at it as counseling) a gay man to change his “sinful, indulgent ways”, they will not push a hate platform. They don’t hold signs that say “God hates F*gs”. They don’t throw rocks, lynch, shoot, or otherwise berate gay people. They can’t. Their faith won’t permit it. Their faith permits Jesus’ teachings of charity, tenderness, and tolerance of sinners. I hate to rain on your parade (so to speak) but if you’re looking at any genuine sect of Christianity, you won’t find bigots. Now if you shift your focus to Islam…well...that’s a subject for another time. Bottom-line is characterizing Prince as homophobic, someone afraid of homosexuals, someone who hates homosexuals, going by history and by dogma, is wholly inaccurate.

[Edited 5/31/16 14:00pm]

[Edited 5/31/16 14:01pm]

[Edited 5/31/16 14:05pm]

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Reply #122 posted 05/31/16 2:09pm

DiscoBallz

savvy said:

DiscoBallz said:

If I were a bigot, I wouldn't be spending money on and still listening to Prince. I've no intolerance when it comes to religious folks, though I do disagree with their opinions on equality. See the difference?

-

It's already been said here what Wendy's experience with Prince was in 2004. I'm glad they got past the issue. That doesn't negate the fact that Prince had, at various points in his career, made comments that were rooted in bigotry. As previously mentioned, folks are multi-layered. You really want to act like people are crucifying Prince because it seems you're pretty enmeshed in your feelings. But that's not accurate. smile

No, you wouldn't do that. You do however use the sweeping generalizations of "homophobe" and "bigot" (bigoted behavior in itself and using words that are just a bit inflamatory) to describe Prince and Christians/JW etc. (and for the record I'm more or less atheist, so no horse in the race) that simply don't see homosexuality as natural.

Most of the religions in that range, generally speaking, adopt the philosophy of compassion and generosity to anyone they see as a sinner (see Mary Magdalen AKA Our Lady of the Blessed Streetwalkers). Now I’m sure someone on your side of it will bring up the likes of Westboro Baptist. Really? See them as mainstream Christians do you? Another great counter might be, “JW is hardly mainstream Christianity.” Valid point. Good point. However what is certain is while they aren’t mainstream, and they may urge, (they may look at it as counseling) a gay man to change his “sinful, indulgent ways”, they will not push a hate platform. They don’t hold signs that say “God hates F*gs”. They don’t throw rocks, lynch, shoot, or otherwise berate gay people. They can’t. Their faith won’t permit it. Their faith permits Jesus’ teachings of charity, tenderness, and tolerance of sinners. I hate to rain on your parade (so to speak) but if you’re looking at any genuine sect of Christianity, you won’t find bigots. Now if you shift your focus to Islam…well...that’s a subject for another time. Bottom-line is characterizing Prince as homophobic, someone afraid of homosexuals, someone who hates homosexuals, going by history and by dogma, is wholly inaccurate.

[Edited 5/31/16 14:00pm]

[Edited 5/31/16 14:01pm]

[Edited 5/31/16 14:05pm]

The great thing about science is that it is true regardless of whether you believe in it or not. And I never made any judgements about the character of these folks. However, if you feel like equal rights is a problem, then you likely are the problem therein. On at least a handful of occasions, Prince said something inflammatory enough to have folks wonder if he had renegged on his utopian, come-one-come-all attitude for decades prior. I still love Prince and all his flaws. Much like I love other people I feel "close" to, in some fashion, who have a ways to go in terms of education and tolerance.

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Reply #123 posted 05/31/16 2:21pm

savvy

DiscoBallz said:

savvy said:

No, you wouldn't do that. You do however use the sweeping generalizations of "homophobe" and "bigot" (bigoted behavior in itself and using words that are just a bit inflamatory) to describe Prince and Christians/JW etc. (and for the record I'm more or less atheist, so no horse in the race) that simply don't see homosexuality as natural.

Most of the religions in that range, generally speaking, adopt the philosophy of compassion and generosity to anyone they see as a sinner (see Mary Magdalen AKA Our Lady of the Blessed Streetwalkers). Now I’m sure someone on your side of it will bring up the likes of Westboro Baptist. Really? See them as mainstream Christians do you? Another great counter might be, “JW is hardly mainstream Christianity.” Valid point. Good point. However what is certain is while they aren’t mainstream, and they may urge, (they may look at it as counseling) a gay man to change his “sinful, indulgent ways”, they will not push a hate platform. They don’t hold signs that say “God hates F*gs”. They don’t throw rocks, lynch, shoot, or otherwise berate gay people. They can’t. Their faith won’t permit it. Their faith permits Jesus’ teachings of charity, tenderness, and tolerance of sinners. I hate to rain on your parade (so to speak) but if you’re looking at any genuine sect of Christianity, you won’t find bigots. Now if you shift your focus to Islam…well...that’s a subject for another time. Bottom-line is characterizing Prince as homophobic, someone afraid of homosexuals, someone who hates homosexuals, going by history and by dogma, is wholly inaccurate.

[Edited 5/31/16 14:00pm]

[Edited 5/31/16 14:01pm]

[Edited 5/31/16 14:05pm]

The great thing about science is that it is true regardless of whether you believe in it or not. And I never made any judgements about the character of these folks. However, if you feel like equal rights is a problem, then you likely are the problem therein. On at least a handful of occasions, Prince said something inflammatory enough to have folks wonder if he had renegged on his utopian, come-one-come-all attitude for decades prior. I still love Prince and all his flaws. Much like I love other people I feel "close" to, in some fashion, who have a ways to go in terms of education and tolerance.

The great thing about science is that it is true regardless of whether you believe in it or not. Amen. And I never made any judgements about the character of these folks. You do every time you use the words “homophobe” or “bigot”. However, if you feel like equal rights is a problem, then you likely are the problem therein. At what point, anywhere in any conversation I have had with you or anyone else ever could you possibly extrapolate “Savvy wants to deny rights.” On at least a handful of occasions, Prince said something inflammatory enough to have folks wonder if he had renegged on his utopian, come-one-come-all attitude for decades prior In spite of corporate mantras to the contrary perception is not reality. Trigger warning, Prince pisses people off. Doesn’t mean he hates.

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Reply #124 posted 05/31/16 2:27pm

DiscoBallz

savvy said:

DiscoBallz said:

The great thing about science is that it is true regardless of whether you believe in it or not. And I never made any judgements about the character of these folks. However, if you feel like equal rights is a problem, then you likely are the problem therein. On at least a handful of occasions, Prince said something inflammatory enough to have folks wonder if he had renegged on his utopian, come-one-come-all attitude for decades prior. I still love Prince and all his flaws. Much like I love other people I feel "close" to, in some fashion, who have a ways to go in terms of education and tolerance.

The great thing about science is that it is true regardless of whether you believe in it or not. Amen. And I never made any judgements about the character of these folks. You do every time you use the words “homophobe” or “bigot”. However, if you feel like equal rights is a problem, then you likely are the problem therein. At what point, anywhere in any conversation I have had with you or anyone else ever could you possibly extrapolate “Savvy wants to deny rights.” On at least a handful of occasions, Prince said something inflammatory enough to have folks wonder if he had renegged on his utopian, come-one-come-all attitude for decades prior In spite of corporate mantras to the contrary perception is not reality. Trigger warning, Prince pisses people off. Doesn’t mean he hates.

Trigger warning: It's not always all about you. General statements can be made. I call it like I see it - prejudiced statements were made and unabashedly so. He corrected a reporter once and only once, to my knowledge, about the tone of some of those statements. No one here is suggesting Prince was a hateful guy. And sometimes well-meaning people are led astray in their beliefs. I hope that Prince re-found his global acceptance to all types of well-meaning people himself.

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Reply #125 posted 05/31/16 2:37pm

savvy

DiscoBallz said:

savvy said:

The great thing about science is that it is true regardless of whether you believe in it or not. Amen. And I never made any judgements about the character of these folks. You do every time you use the words “homophobe” or “bigot”. However, if you feel like equal rights is a problem, then you likely are the problem therein. At what point, anywhere in any conversation I have had with you or anyone else ever could you possibly extrapolate “Savvy wants to deny rights.” On at least a handful of occasions, Prince said something inflammatory enough to have folks wonder if he had renegged on his utopian, come-one-come-all attitude for decades prior In spite of corporate mantras to the contrary perception is not reality. Trigger warning, Prince pisses people off. Doesn’t mean he hates.

Trigger warning: It's not always all about you. General statements can be made. I call it like I see it - prejudiced statements were made and unabashedly so. He corrected a reporter once and only once, to my knowledge, about the tone of some of those statements. No one here is suggesting Prince was a hateful guy. And sometimes well-meaning people are led astray in their beliefs. I hope that Prince re-found his global acceptance to all types of well-meaning people himself.

Trigger warning: It's not always all about you. Yet you made it about me when you said “you likely are the problem therein” General statements can be made. They can be. Doesn’t make them right. I call it like I see it - prejudiced statements were made and unabashedly so. No one here is suggesting Prince was a hateful guy. No, it isn’t a suggestion, it’s an outright statement when the terms “homophobe” and “bigot” are thrown his way.

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Reply #126 posted 05/31/16 2:47pm

dustoff

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savvy said:

And I never made any judgements about the character of these folks. You do every time you use the words “homophobe” or “bigot”.


Ah, the old "People who abhor prejudice are just intolerant of other people's views" argument. The troll's favorite rhetorical weapon, never gets old.

[Edited 5/31/16 14:47pm]

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Reply #127 posted 05/31/16 2:56pm

savvy

dustoff said:

savvy said:


Ah, the old "People who abhor prejudice are just intolerant of other people's views" argument. The troll's favorite rhetorical weapon, never gets old.

[Edited 5/31/16 14:47pm]

Ah, the old "The left can't possibly engage in prejudicial behavior because it's not a part of the white sys gen patriarchy." The troll's favorite rhetorical weapon. Never gets old.

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Reply #128 posted 05/31/16 3:01pm

GirlBrother

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savvy said:

Now I’m sure someone on your side of it will bring up the likes of Westboro Baptist. Really? See them as mainstream Christians do you? Another great counter might be, “JW is hardly mainstream Christianity.” Valid point. Good point. However what is certain is while they aren’t mainstream, and they may urge, (they may look at it as counseling) a gay man to change his “sinful, indulgent ways”, they will not push a hate platform.


I'd rather be hated than tolerated. At least I know where I stand.

There is nothing more passive-aggressively patronising and dehumanising than being "tolerated." I tolerate extremes of weather; not people. I either accept or reject people...

...And in that regard, The Westboro Baptist Church are really really good at being Christians. You couldn't accuse them of being hypocrites.

Hypocrites are far more insidious than zealots. Hypocrites will preach from one part of a "holy" text, while conveniently ignoring another. You know... They'll have a tattoo, wear mixed fibres, eat shellfish or bacon - but still choose to hate non-heterosexuals. You can't argue with hypocrites, because they don't have a cohesive argument to begin with. There's no point in arguing anyway, as you've already won by not being them.

Of course God would hate fags in biblical times. If people weren't reproducing, they weren't creating more followers. God knows that life-expectancy back then was short enough. God wouldn't want his people wasting their energy on expressions of same-sex love, when they could be making babies.

And there's something very similar about Shirley Phelps waving a "God Hates Fags" banner, and Prince tapping his good book, warning of the evils of "sticking it anywhere." In both cases, it's not necessarily Shirley or Prince's opinion - it's God's opinion! And you can't argue with God. confused
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Reply #129 posted 05/31/16 3:07pm

GirlBrother

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savvy said:

Ah, the old "The left can't possibly engage in prejudicial behavior because it's not a part of the white sys gen patriarchy." The troll's favorite rhetorical weapon. Never gets old.


I dismiss all religions equally. I don't disregard any one religion more than any other. I give all religions an equal opportunity to not impact upon my life, as humanly possible.

Where's the prejudice?
lol
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Reply #130 posted 05/31/16 3:10pm

savvy

...And in that regard, The Westboro Baptist Church are really really good at being Christians. No. They’re not. You couldn't accuse them of being hypocrites. Sure I could. They represent everything contrary to Jesus’ teachings.

Now Islam on the other hand…ok…I have to stop again. That’s another subject.

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Reply #131 posted 05/31/16 3:31pm

DiscoBallz

savvy said:

DiscoBallz said:

Trigger warning: It's not always all about you. General statements can be made. I call it like I see it - prejudiced statements were made and unabashedly so. He corrected a reporter once and only once, to my knowledge, about the tone of some of those statements. No one here is suggesting Prince was a hateful guy. And sometimes well-meaning people are led astray in their beliefs. I hope that Prince re-found his global acceptance to all types of well-meaning people himself.

Trigger warning: It's not always all about you. Yet you made it about me when you said “you likely are the problem therein” General statements can be made. They can be. Doesn’t make them right. I call it like I see it - prejudiced statements were made and unabashedly so. No one here is suggesting Prince was a hateful guy. No, it isn’t a suggestion, it’s an outright statement when the terms “homophobe” and “bigot” are thrown his way.

Naw, I didn't make it about you at all. I made a general statement. That was a general statement. I'm sorry you took it personal, but that's about as far my empathy extends on that.

-

Unfortunately for you, mere use of the words "bigot" and "homophobe" (only one of which I ever used here) doesn't constitute those feelings on the part of the speaker. Struggle with that if you want.

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Reply #132 posted 05/31/16 3:52pm

savvy

uh huh

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Reply #133 posted 05/31/16 3:57pm

GirlBrother

avatar

savvy said:

They represent everything contrary to Jesus’ teachings.


If Jesus was the human embodiment of God, then whatever Jesus didn't teach, is pretty much covered in The Old Testament by God himself. It's almost like good cop/bad cop...

And The Phelps don't wave banners saying "We Hate Fags". It's actually quite correct to say that the Christian God hates fags.

I've always looked at non-heterosexual Christians as being stricken by some form of spiritual Stockholm Syndrome - or possibly just self-loathing masochists.

savvy said:

Now Islam on the other hand…ok…I have to stop again. That’s another subject


It all seems pretty much the same to me.
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Reply #134 posted 06/01/16 5:54am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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moderator

GirlBrother said:

savvy said:
They represent everything contrary to Jesus’ teachings.
If Jesus was the human embodiment of God, then whatever Jesus didn't teach, is pretty much covered in The Old Testament by God himself. It's almost like good cop/bad cop... And The Phelps don't wave banners saying "We Hate Fags". It's actually quite correct to say that the Christian God hates fags. I've always looked at non-heterosexual Christians as being stricken by some form of spiritual Stockholm Syndrome - or possibly just self-loathing masochists. savvy said:
Now Islam on the other hand…ok…I have to stop again. That’s another subject
It all seems pretty much the same to me.

Not really.

For example there is no prohibition against 'female homosexuality' in the Torah or anything before the Law, and outside of something Paul said in 1 verse in Romans, nothing else is said in the gospels or the letters.


there also is no actual prohibition against male homosexuality. There is though about male temple prostitutes ie Sodomites, it was all in connection with the worship of particular god. Which is what was happening in Sodom.

The Law was given to the Hebrews, and never meant for the non-Jews to live by unless they choose to. One reason you never see Jews going about to 'witness' to others.

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
https://prince.org/msg/7/464433 9.24.2020
if you ever try the lotus position
Try it while you're being strangled
Do U understand what I'm saying?
#IDEFINEME
It’s unloving and selfish to be easily offended
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Reply #135 posted 06/01/16 10:04am

RiotPaisley

WHO IS THIS GOD PERSON??

Is it a person or a spririt in the sky? I don't get it. Who actually wrote these books? Man? Oh so some person got it in their head to make a bunch of laws to get people to do their bidding and give them money? Why? Because people were afraid when they die that was just it... It makes PEOPLE feel better to know there's some comfy clouds and harp music in the sky for them when this show is over. Give me money and you'll get into heaven so long as you don't do x y or z.

It's crap. We should be looking out for each other here on Earth.
Surprise, surprise.
Another treat. Another trick.
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Reply #136 posted 06/01/16 9:55pm

spacedolphin

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hmmm Yeah it's an interesting one OP, I remember back in the early 90s there was a very prominent LGBTQIACDGSMTERF group where I lived whom I had a few friends part of, and they adjusted their views on Prince from the 80s to the mid-90s. Some of his early music struck a chord with them and his gender-fluidity resonated strongly for a time, but in the mid-90s he outed and became cisgendered and they fell off the acceptance train. Some of the oddest things I heard from the LGTVBBQ people were that Prince was either "too camp" or "too urban", so I think because his music crossed so many genres it made it difficult for them to identify with. By then House music and repetitive beats were all the rave (no pun intended), and P was starting to enter the Twilight zone, so the QUILTBAGs were redfining their identifies just as prince was beginning to redefine his.

[Edited 6/1/16 22:04pm]

music I'm afraid of Americans. I'm afraid of the world. music
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Reply #137 posted 06/02/16 3:45am

gstq

If anyone is intersted in the actual facts of the views of JW's in relation to homosexuality (and therefore one must assume Prince's) have a look at the following links. I for one found it interesting that they insist on respect and view sexuality as only acceptable within the bounds of marraige. Therefore the argument is that any sexual activity outside this arrangement is viewed in the same light and each individual have the opportunity to chose their conduct.

https://www.jw.org/en/pub...sexuality/

https://www.jw.org/en/bib...sexuality/

I guess the point they are trying to make is that each individual has free will to make a choice and should not be hated because of the choice they make but just because and individual or group of individals decide that choice is the norm does not mean they have to accept that view above thier beliefs in the bible.

at least its consistent I guess whether you agree or not

[Edited 6/2/16 3:53am]

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Reply #138 posted 06/02/16 4:11am

gstq

iloveyeshua said:

RiotPaisley said:
I can only speak for myself, but yeah his religion was hard to work with. I don't know what he honestly felt but I know what JWs think so... I could look past it for sure cuz i just love him and refuse to believe he honestly thought that. I will ignore any attempt to tell me otherwise. I definitely forgave him for some of the hurtful stuff I disagreed with and would have loved to talk about it with him.
In the end? He was an artist. So what if he personally disagreed with someone's lifestyle/sexual preference? He clearly had love for everyone as a human being. Isn't that enough? Disagreeing with a lifestyle preference doesn't make anyone hateful or mean. It just means they use their brain and are entitled to disagree. Freedom of speech, religion and the press. It's ok to agree to disagree. What's to forgive?

well said

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Reply #139 posted 06/02/16 7:29am

RiotPaisley

gstq said:



iloveyeshua said:


RiotPaisley said:
I can only speak for myself, but yeah his religion was hard to work with. I don't know what he honestly felt but I know what JWs think so... I could look past it for sure cuz i just love him and refuse to believe he honestly thought that. I will ignore any attempt to tell me otherwise. I definitely forgave him for some of the hurtful stuff I disagreed with and would have loved to talk about it with him.

In the end? He was an artist. So what if he personally disagreed with someone's lifestyle/sexual preference? He clearly had love for everyone as a human being. Isn't that enough? Disagreeing with a lifestyle preference doesn't make anyone hateful or mean. It just means they use their brain and are entitled to disagree. Freedom of speech, religion and the press. It's ok to agree to disagree. What's to forgive?


well said



What's to forgive? Basically, you can disagree with what I do but you don't need to voice that. So I guess voicing that you disagree with my lifestyle that you really have nothing to do with. My problem really stemmed from when he was trying to get Wendy to "change her ways" both her sexuality and her religion. I don't think that's cool. Especially since he obviously did love everyone, why even state that you have a problem with it? It just makes others think it's ok to voice their opinions on it and some are not so kind. Read the comments sections of any news article on the subject of homosexuality or even race or even women's rights and see the boiling fury that exists here for no damn reason.

If you think I am going to "hell" for it- keep it to yourself but let me live freely like everyone else. Don't add fuel to the fires of hell on Earth. I'm not hurting you or anyone else because I enjoy the companionship of the same sex.

I personally don't even understand what there is to disagree with in the first place. LOVE IS LOVE.
Surprise, surprise.
Another treat. Another trick.
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Reply #140 posted 06/02/16 11:33pm

mechanicalemot
ion17

oceancrayon said:

As a gay guy, obviously his earlier stuff lyrically, really attracted me to him. As a musician, the music that accompanied those zany lyrics was nothing short of genius.

I got into him around 2009, so he was already full on JW mode when I came around. I have heard unfavorable quotes attributed to him, and I guess because of his past I gave him sort of a free pass, if those quotes were true. In my heart of hearts though,

I don't think he was absolutely, truly homophobic.(Being on Ellen, playing sporadically again with W&L, etc) I just can't see how a guy with full makeup and high heels (basically a wig away from being a drag queen lol) having a completely coldheart towards us.


Interesting...because one of my best friends, another life-long Prince fan, just came to the conclusion staring at his pictures since his transition that she's spent her whole life in love with a bisexual-transgender.
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Reply #141 posted 06/02/16 11:46pm

EmmaMcG

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gstq said:

If anyone is intersted in the actual facts of the views of JW's in relation to homosexuality (and therefore one must assume Prince's) have a look at the following links. I for one found it interesting that they insist on respect and view sexuality as only acceptable within the bounds of marraige. Therefore the argument is that any sexual activity outside this arrangement is viewed in the same light and each individual have the opportunity to chose their conduct.



https://www.jw.org/en/pub...sexuality/


https://www.jw.org/en/bib...sexuality/



I guess the point they are trying to make is that each individual has free will to make a choice and should not be hated because of the choice they make but just because and individual or group of individals decide that choice is the norm does not mean they have to accept that view above thier beliefs in the bible.



at least its consistent I guess whether you agree or not

[Edited 6/2/16 3:53am]



That whole sex outside of marriage thing is definitely a rule Prince has broken. He got divorced something like 10 years ago so I'd very much doubt that he remained celibate for the rest of his life. So if he's going to break one rule, why not another? I don't know anybody who is jehovah's witness but I do know other people of varying religious beliefs. Catholics, protestants, Hindu and one Jewish girl and one Muslim guy. Not one of them has ever expressed any negativity towards gay people. Of course, there are others who are part of those religions who do have a problem with gays but not everyone shares that view. So we can't assume Prince had a problem with gays just because his chosen religion dictates that it's bad.
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Reply #142 posted 06/02/16 11:54pm

mechanicalemot
ion17

joeycocopuffs said:

I'd like to add that while I was reading this old thread (Prince walks off in the middle of a photo shoot? <-- thread title) about P walking out of a Herb Ritts photoshoot because APPEARENTLY Herb complimented him of how sexy he looks?
and P told him to "burn the negatives"?

I hope he's not referring to his lifestyle, is he? eek

[Edited 5/29/16 23:52pm]




I seriously doubt this story. It is impossible that Prince would not be aware that men found him sexy. In fact, there is no doubt in my mind that he actively courted it
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Reply #143 posted 06/02/16 11:56pm

mechanicalemot
ion17

SanMartin said:

This doesn't make any sense. For there to be no such thing as offensive lyrics, art would have to have no effect upon nor any connection with society as a whole. It would have to exist in a vacuum. You can argue over whether people should find particular lyrics offensive (even as a bisexual I've never had any problem with Bambi and don't see it as homophobic), but to claim no one should ever be offended by anything is ridiculous.



nonesuch said:




EmmaMcG said:


Marrk said:
Agree. In fact, there are no "offensive" lyrics. People who feel offended by lyrics deserve to be offended.





I agree whole heartedly
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Reply #144 posted 06/03/16 12:07am

mechanicalemot
ion17

GirlBrother said:

It's fairly obvious that Prince didn't self-register on the usual male/feminine binary.

His symbol even... I mean aside from the flamboyant dress, make-up, and (at times) ambiguous lyrics, he chose to name himself with an androgynous symbol.

Now, whether that blurring of his gender identity extended to his actual sexual orientation - I don't know.

He possibly was bisexual. Then again, you could be bisexual from adolescence until death, and never have a same-sex experience. That doesn't mean that the inclination or attraction towards your own gender isn't there - even if you never act upon it.

With all this in mind, it makes his conversion to an anti-gay religion even sadder. If he'd ever had any romantic/sexual feelings towards another man, I can't imagine how much self-loathing that would incur.

And yes, Bambi is a gay-friendly song, because he's the loser in the story. The joke's on him, because he can't have her. She's cooler than him - and she's gay. How anybody could see that as homophobic is crazy.

Other later lyrics - and his later pronouncements in interviews were problematic though.

I just hear his rantings now, as him trying to convince himself... Utterly brainwashed after the death of his child into believing that "sin" had caused the baby's premature death.

When you view his post-Larry anti-gay views in the context of someone who's undergone some kind of "gay aversion" therapy, you can't be annoyed. You can only feel saddened.


I'm noticing a patern with you.....and its that I usually like your comments.

Ever since reading André Cymone's Billboard interview on Prince after his death I've had the nagging suspicion that they were in love once. Prince's first love perhaps
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Reply #145 posted 06/03/16 12:13am

alphastreet

He took G out of alphabet street, maybe it's a clue lol
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Reply #146 posted 06/03/16 4:18am

Tom

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mechanicalemotion17 said:

joeycocopuffs said:

I'd like to add that while I was reading this old thread (Prince walks off in the middle of a photo shoot? <-- thread title) about P walking out of a Herb Ritts photoshoot because APPEARENTLY Herb complimented him of how sexy he looks?
and P told him to "burn the negatives"?

I hope he's not referring to his lifestyle, is he? eek

[Edited 5/29/16 23:52pm]

I seriously doubt this story. It is impossible that Prince would not be aware that men found him sexy. In fact, there is no doubt in my mind that he actively courted it

That seems rather odd considering he used Herb Ritt's photos for The Hits/B-Sides collection. It's hard to trust some of these stories, because some folks like to just make stuff up for attention.

Fwiw, 100% gay here and I was never physically attracted to Prince, lol.

As far as JW's and other religions go, it's not about them hating or fearing the LGBTQ community, it's more about them acting like they're somehow superior for being heterosexual, and the rest of us are somehow "flawed".

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Reply #147 posted 06/03/16 8:03am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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moderator

joeycocopuffs said:

I'd like to add that while I was reading this old thread (Prince walks off in the middle of a photo shoot? <-- thread title) about P walking out of a Herb Ritts photoshoot because APPEARENTLY Herb complimented him of how sexy he looks?
and P told him to "burn the negatives"?

I hope he's not referring to his lifestyle, is he? eek

[Edited 5/29/16 23:52pm]

Didn't Herb Ritts take these photos?

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
https://prince.org/msg/7/464433 9.24.2020
if you ever try the lotus position
Try it while you're being strangled
Do U understand what I'm saying?
#IDEFINEME
It’s unloving and selfish to be easily offended
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Reply #148 posted 06/03/16 8:28am

EloiseEloise

I see him as the quintessential artist: artists on average being more androgynous.

And his Love Symbol, being s combination of male and female - to me, this is like a shorthand for describing the incredible creative energy within, whereby the two polarities of male and female inherent in everything coexist within the artist, or Two Spirit (according to Amercian Indian tradition), and how he/she is able to transcend the friction between these polar opposities is what makes their art beautiful and transcendent.

He may have been borderline aspergers/narcissism (both related types to to have unusual gender/sexual fluidity) but really, just gifted.

Such people have thin boundaries inherently, and have access to their unconscious -in his case, to Camille, the female within.

I like to believe that he may have been many things over the course of his life.

That his state of openeness to experience was part of what made him great. ...it is even analogus to a God like Creative potential, like how the words "I am" are synonymous with God and creative power, because there is no "I am this" or "I am that" ...it is this ability to inhabit the non-identity space, the no identity in particular, but potential, that is I think key to creativity.

But with this type of personality comes burden also -which is wby, when he fell short of being a great artist (i.e. couldn't transcend the dualities within himself) that he would resort to fundamentalist views as a way of feeling safe: being bombarded with such potential would probably be quite anxiety provoking.

Anyhow, these are my thoughts on him.

P.s. I share Prince's discovery of a member of the opposite gender "existing within" though it needn't be evidence of transgenderism or anything in oarticluar, but of being 'more in between' which is how I see my self.

Also, I think that bisexuals and ALL persons who are in between can cop a lot of flack even whilst people may admire them for their daring. It can be a hard place to be - consider, for instance, that even homosexual people may bully bisexuals, because they do not fit a binary. People are threatened by this a lot of the time. Sadly.
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Reply #149 posted 06/03/16 8:42am

EloiseEloise

mechanicalemotion17 said:

GirlBrother said:

It's fairly obvious that Prince didn't self-register on the usual male/feminine binary.

His symbol even... I mean aside from the flamboyant dress, make-up, and (at times) ambiguous lyrics, he chose to name himself with an androgynous symbol.

Now, whether that blurring of his gender identity extended to his actual sexual orientation - I don't know.

He possibly was bisexual. Then again, you could be bisexual from adolescence until death, and never have a same-sex experience. That doesn't mean that the inclination or attraction towards your own gender isn't there - even if you never act upon it.

With all this in mind, it makes his conversion to an anti-gay religion even sadder. If he'd ever had any romantic/sexual feelings towards another man, I can't imagine how much self-loathing that would incur.

And yes, Bambi is a gay-friendly song, because he's the loser in the story. The joke's on him, because he can't have her. She's cooler than him - and she's gay. How anybody could see that as homophobic is crazy.

Other later lyrics - and his later pronouncements in interviews were problematic though.

I just hear his rantings now, as him trying to convince himself... Utterly brainwashed after the death of his child into believing that "sin" had caused the baby's premature death.

When you view his post-Larry anti-gay views in the context of someone who's undergone some kind of "gay aversion" therapy, you can't be annoyed. You can only feel saddened.


I'm noticing a patern with you.....and its that I usually like your comments.

Ever since reading André Cymone's Billboard interview on Prince after his death I've had the nagging suspicion that they were in love once. Prince's first love perhaps



Not to fuel the flames of rumours ...but I can't help but wonder if Prince's turn around regarding gender fluidity and his adopting his strict Jehovas Witness, and his son's death, were not possibly because he did get HIV.

Also wondered whether he did not in fact have sex with Boy George.

He did write the song "Bob George" (have not heard it as yet, but wonder if the title was not implying that BG was in fact the male of the pair).

I think that Prince was bisexual. And like most bisexuals, they are hyper-sexual full stop. This is fact. Scientifically studied fact. ...the hornier you are the more likely to be bisexual or gender bending.

I think people know this intuitively even if they cannot accept it cosnciously or logically. Which is why Alpha Males like Prince and Mick Jagger sing falsetto to attract all the girls and make them swoon, and why both cross dressed and were rumoroured to also have slept with men, among their very numerous sexual encounters with women.

Face it: even a ruler when you look closer enough is bent!! lol ...life is based on paradox my friends! Perfection lies in imperfections.
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