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Reply #30 posted 05/29/16 5:40am

hausofmoi7

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Lyrics from his 2004 song "United States Of Division"

"Everybody stop fighting!
Everybody make love!
Everybody stop fighting!
United States of Division

People can slam their door, disagree and fight it
But how you gonna say you love the Father and not love the Son?

United States of Division
BLACK (Division)
WHITE (Division)
STRAIGHT (Division)
GAY (Division)
CHRISTIAN (Division)
MUSLIM "

.

[Edited 5/29/16 5:41am]

“It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #31 posted 05/29/16 10:47am

RiotPaisley

EmmaMcG said:

Marrk said:



jdcxc said:


I believe he was greatly misunderstood as far as his religious views in his later life. He disavowed the homophobic quotes attributed to him. Part of the problem was his difficult interview rules, disdain for interviews. He constantly tweaked, tricked and played with the media. And far as the JWs, I never heard that they are more homophobic than ALL religions and people who are fundamentalists in their interpretation. Prince seemed to be moving away from the strict orthodoxy he held as a new convert 15 years ago.


'Da Bourgeoise' though, pretty recently too in the grand scheme of things. some folks were mad at him at the time. I didn't understand what the heck he was up to with that one to be honest. Maybe a conquest left him for another woman. Still.. confused



.



That thread. http://prince.org/msg/7/405024


.



[Edited 5/28/16 15:54pm]



I never understood what the problem was with Da Bourgeoise. What's the difference between the lyrical content of that and Bambi? Both songs have him competing with a woman for the object of his desire. The only difference is that in Da Bourgeoise, the girl is probably bisexual. She has been seeing Prince, but also another woman. In Bambi, the girl is most likely a lesbian as he says "all your lovers, they look just like you" and "let me show you what it's like to be loved by a man". So he's trying to "convert" her, which I would say is more offensive. Having said that, I don't find any of it offensive. Da Bourgeoise comes across to me as a humorous tale of Prince losing a woman to another girl, and Bambi is all about how Prince is so sexy and cool that he can "convert" this lesbian. If anyone is offended by that, then I don't know what to think.


I don't think I've heard the lyrics to da bourgeoise- I'll look for it but as far as Bambi goes- to me it was just a song about a guy thinking he can turn a lesbian. I don't think he winds up with her in the end.

I think the song is funny as it's pretty harmless and I've heard it a variety of ways from guys who say that kind of stuff, the difference is the reaction after Bambi flat at says "no, stop asking."

Do you then turn it into slurs and violence?

I don't think Prince does. I think he says damn and moves on. Maybe you get a spot in his band and that's fair because you bring your girlfriends, your girlfriend, your girlfriend's sister.

Regardless, It's ambiguous if he and Bambi ever boned.

I've always been more curious about Sister.
Surprise, surprise.
Another treat. Another trick.
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Reply #32 posted 05/29/16 1:46pm

BobGeorge909

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EmmaMcG said:

Marrk said:



jdcxc said:


I believe he was greatly misunderstood as far as his religious views in his later life. He disavowed the homophobic quotes attributed to him. Part of the problem was his difficult interview rules, disdain for interviews. He constantly tweaked, tricked and played with the media. And far as the JWs, I never heard that they are more homophobic than ALL religions and people who are fundamentalists in their interpretation. Prince seemed to be moving away from the strict orthodoxy he held as a new convert 15 years ago.


'Da Bourgeoise' though, pretty recently too in the grand scheme of things. some folks were mad at him at the time. I didn't understand what the heck he was up to with that one to be honest. Maybe a conquest left him for another woman. Still.. confused



.



That thread. http://prince.org/msg/7/405024


.



[Edited 5/28/16 15:54pm]



I never understood what the problem was with Da Bourgeoise. What's the difference between the lyrical content of that and Bambi? Both songs have him competing with a woman for the object of his desire. The only difference is that in Da Bourgeoise, the girl is probably bisexual. She has been seeing Prince, but also another woman. In Bambi, the girl is most likely a lesbian as he says "all your lovers, they look just like you" and "let me show you what it's like to be loved by a man". So he's trying to "convert" her, which I would say is more offensive. Having said that, I don't find any of it offensive. Da Bourgeoise comes across to me as a humorous tale of Prince losing a woman to another girl, and Bambi is all about how Prince is so sexy and cool that he can "convert" this lesbian. If anyone is offended by that, then I don't know what to think.

I feel similarly. Also...it just occurred to me the dishonesty involved with someone having a 'beard'. Albuet a problem that society somewhat pushes on gay people. Many, though do recognize that aspect of being gay as their own problem they need to surmount. The vast majority of society is OK with gay yet beards are still abound.

I don't see a problem with Bambi either. There's MANY a gay woemn I've seen and wished I had some 'time' with regardless of their known desires. It's obvious men routinely power trip and this is one of em...A fantasy where ure SO UTTERLY irresistible that people change their 'selves' for you.

If it's offensive... So be it. If I was a songwriter I'd write a song addressing a similiar topic...but I'm not. So no one will hear my Bambi 2.0.
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Reply #33 posted 05/29/16 2:29pm

nursev

all7even said:

Queer

For real popcorn

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Reply #34 posted 05/29/16 2:29pm

nursev

FUNKYNESS said:

I couldnt care less

bored2 lol

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Reply #35 posted 05/29/16 2:42pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

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moderator

joeycocopuffs said:

Honestly as a Queer woman myself being of fan of his music for 2 years, all I could say is that while I don't necessarly agree with his religious views or his supposed 'Anti' views of Gay Rights..
I don't think he seems to be the type of person to hold grudges against anyone really (or I could be wrong tho idk???).

He seems pretty chill towards Wendy & Lisa over the years or hell even people he ever worked with who might've been LGBT and might not even know about it.

Didn't he say that he had gay friends and they study the bible together like right after he was 'misinterpreted' on Gay Marriage?

[Edited 5/28/16 21:59pm]

That was always a funny image

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER


What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your milli
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Reply #36 posted 05/29/16 3:12pm

JudasLChrist

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savvy said:

Yeah the LGBTQIZVBN... people couldn't really label him "homophobe" because he wasn't. SJWs want the world at large to equate someone that doesn't look at homosexuality as natural, as someone who fears and hates. It's not true.


This comment is super annoying. If you are against LGBT people, even if you back that up with your religious beliefs you are still accountable. You are still a bigot. There is no separation between LGBT people, and what you call 'SJW'. Fucking absurd.

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Reply #37 posted 05/29/16 3:22pm

jdcxc

nonesuch said:



EmmaMcG said:


Marrk said:



'Da Bourgeoise' though, pretty recently too in the grand scheme of things. some folks were mad at him at the time. I didn't understand what the heck he was up to with that one to be honest. Maybe a conquest left him for another woman. Still.. confused



.



That thread. http://prince.org/msg/7/405024


.




[Edited 5/28/16 15:54pm]




I never understood what the problem was with Da Bourgeoise. What's the difference between the lyrical content of that and Bambi? Both songs have him competing with a woman for the object of his desire. The only difference is that in Da Bourgeoise, the girl is probably bisexual. She has been seeing Prince, but also another woman. In Bambi, the girl is most likely a lesbian as he says "all your lovers, they look just like you" and "let me show you what it's like to be loved by a man". So he's trying to "convert" her, which I would say is more offensive. Having said that, I don't find any of it offensive. Da Bourgeoise comes across to me as a humorous tale of Prince losing a woman to another girl, and Bambi is all about how Prince is so sexy and cool that he can "convert" this lesbian. If anyone is offended by that, then I don't know what to think.

Agree. In fact, there are no "offensive" lyrics. People who feel offended by lyrics deserve to be offended.



Agree also...in fact the lyrics point to the healthy ribbing and humor of cross gender competition. Prince has referred to bisexual girlfriends in several songs...Come On, I Love U But Don't Trust U come to mind.
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Reply #38 posted 05/29/16 4:01pm

BobGeorge909

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jdcxc said:

nonesuch said:



EmmaMcG said:


Marrk said:



'Da Bourgeoise' though, pretty recently too in the grand scheme of things. some folks were mad at him at the time. I didn't understand what the heck he was up to with that one to be honest. Maybe a conquest left him for another woman. Still.. confused



.



That thread. http://prince.org/msg/7/405024


.




[Edited 5/28/16 15:54pm]




I never understood what the problem was with Da Bourgeoise. What's the difference between the lyrical content of that and Bambi? Both songs have him competing with a woman for the object of his desire. The only difference is that in Da Bourgeoise, the girl is probably bisexual. She has been seeing Prince, but also another woman. In Bambi, the girl is most likely a lesbian as he says "all your lovers, they look just like you" and "let me show you what it's like to be loved by a man". So he's trying to "convert" her, which I would say is more offensive. Having said that, I don't find any of it offensive. Da Bourgeoise comes across to me as a humorous tale of Prince losing a woman to another girl, and Bambi is all about how Prince is so sexy and cool that he can "convert" this lesbian. If anyone is offended by that, then I don't know what to think.

Agree. In fact, there are no "offensive" lyrics. People who feel offended by lyrics deserve to be offended.



Agree also...in fact the lyrics point to the healthy ribbing and humor of cross gender competition. Prince has referred to bisexual girlfriends in several songs...Come On, I Love U But Don't Trust U come to mind.

I feel so stupid...the dress and perfume line make so much sense now...duh...and I've had the nerve of getting on people for misinterpreting lyrics...
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Reply #39 posted 05/29/16 5:25pm

FUNKNROLL

.
[Edited 6/19/16 14:05pm]
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Reply #40 posted 05/29/16 5:41pm

jdcxc

BobGeorge909 said:

jdcxc said:



Agree also...in fact the lyrics point to the healthy ribbing and humor of cross gender competition. Prince has referred to bisexual girlfriends in several songs...Come On, I Love U But Don't Trust U come to mind.

I feel so stupid...the dress and perfume line make so much sense now...duh...and I've had the nerve of getting on people for misinterpreting lyrics...


Lol...that line has been debated here before. That is precisely why Prince is all-gender friendly lol.
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Reply #41 posted 05/29/16 10:33pm

FullLipsDotNos
e

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I've been his fan for a few weeks and this is something that I've been thinking bout a lot, mainly because I'm pansexual. I guess we'll never know the full truth, but I don't think he was a homophobe. He might have felt uneasy around queer people (this is something that happens to many non-queer people, but I don't blame them for that cause we live in a society that teaches us that heterosexual = normal, but anything else is not), on the other hand, he never openly spoke against queer folks, so that's fine for me.

full lips, freckles, and upturned nose
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Reply #42 posted 05/29/16 11:09pm

DiscoBallz

jdcxc said:

BobGeorge909 said:
I feel so stupid...the dress and perfume line make so much sense now...duh...and I've had the nerve of getting on people for misinterpreting lyrics...
Lol...that line has been debated here before. That is precisely why Prince is all-gender friendly lol.

Uhhh... that line is referring to another man buying her new perfume and clothes. Not that she slept with a woman and put on her stuff. WTF.

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Reply #43 posted 05/29/16 11:17pm

rainbowchild

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Interestingly, many ignorant people I know thought Prince was gay which used to make me laugh. lol Too bad he became a JW because I loved his music much more before he converted to that (cult) religion. Makes me wonder how much more his music would have evolved if he didn't become a JW. confused
"Just like the sun, the Rainbow Children rise."

"Am I black or white? Am I straight or gay?"

"We had fun, didn't we?"
-Prince (1958-2016) 4ever in my life
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Reply #44 posted 05/29/16 11:28pm

FunkiestOne

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I never really understood how Transsexuals got lumped in with the gay men and women group. I suppose gay people want as many allies and political power as they can get, so they let the transexuals join their cause and united, but that really is a stretch. But non-heterosexuals were persecuted for many years in horrible ways, so glad they won most all those battles finally for equality.

.

But I digress... as far as Prince goes, Joe Rogan was saying on his podcast that Prince was anti-gay for religious reasons. I vaguely remember something like that long ago, but not the details. But I doubt he really felt that way in his heart. I doubt he wouldn't hire someone who was gay. Actually Wendy and Lisa are good examples there. He clearly didn't care.

.

Maybe as he became older and more of a relgious paranoid type, he went through a phase where he didn't agree with gay "lifestyle", but I am willing to bet he wised up and grew out of that. Religion is fairly pliable and you can just say that God is ok with those who are gay and there you go.

[Edited 5/29/16 23:28pm]

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Reply #45 posted 05/29/16 11:50pm

joeycocopuffs

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I'd like to add that while I was reading this old thread (Prince walks off in the middle of a photo shoot? <-- thread title) about P walking out of a Herb Ritts photoshoot because APPEARENTLY Herb complimented him of how sexy he looks?
and P told him to "burn the negatives"?

I hope he's not referring to his lifestyle, is he? eek

[Edited 5/29/16 23:52pm]

http://castijes.tumblr.com/

I draw fanarts n' shit..
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Reply #46 posted 05/30/16 12:22am

SanMartin

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This doesn't make any sense. For there to be no such thing as offensive lyrics, art would have to have no effect upon nor any connection with society as a whole. It would have to exist in a vacuum. You can argue over whether people should find particular lyrics offensive (even as a bisexual I've never had any problem with Bambi and don't see it as homophobic), but to claim no one should ever be offended by anything is ridiculous.

nonesuch said:

EmmaMcG said:

Marrk said:
Agree. In fact, there are no "offensive" lyrics. People who feel offended by lyrics deserve to be offended.

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Reply #47 posted 05/30/16 1:24am

FullLipsDotNos
e

avatar

FunkiestOne said:

I never really understood how Transsexuals got lumped in with the gay men and women group. I suppose gay people want as many allies and political power as they can get, so they let the transexuals join their cause and united, but that really is a stretch. But non-heterosexuals were persecuted for many years in horrible ways, so glad they won most all those battles finally for equality.

.

But I digress... as far as Prince goes, Joe Rogan was saying on his podcast that Prince was anti-gay for religious reasons. I vaguely remember something like that long ago, but not the details. But I doubt he really felt that way in his heart. I doubt he wouldn't hire someone who was gay. Actually Wendy and Lisa are good examples there. He clearly didn't care.

.

Maybe as he became older and more of a relgious paranoid type, he went through a phase where he didn't agree with gay "lifestyle", but I am willing to bet he wised up and grew out of that. Religion is fairly pliable and you can just say that God is ok with those who are gay and there you go.

[Edited 5/29/16 23:28pm]

"Transsexual" is not a correct term, it's better to say "transpeople", because the former term is more biological and thus inaccurate.

full lips, freckles, and upturned nose
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Reply #48 posted 05/30/16 6:29am

BobGeorge909

avatar

DiscoBallz said:



jdcxc said:


BobGeorge909 said:
I feel so stupid...the dress and perfume line make so much sense now...duh...and I've had the nerve of getting on people for misinterpreting lyrics...

Lol...that line has been debated here before. That is precisely why Prince is all-gender friendly lol.

Uhhh... that line is referring to another man buying her new perfume and clothes. Not that she slept with a woman and put on her stuff. WTF.


That's what I always thought...but now I'm like hmmmm. The song seems more intriguing with a female bisexual spin to it. I'll tell u what happened to the ring he gave her, it got stuck in another woman's whooha.
[Edited 5/30/16 7:28am]
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Reply #49 posted 05/30/16 6:43am

jimmy3121

Always had to hear from my pals growing up of all races....why do you like that fags music so much?

Your actually going to that sissy show? And paying money?

All my pals and myself were always girl chasers I had no chance of convincing anyone otherwise when he came out with things like Raspberry Beret.....I found it kinda funny the most vocal about it were my black friends- they couldn't even stand to look at him.

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Reply #50 posted 05/30/16 9:18am

divo02

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Prince never stopped having pictures taken of himself that were gender neutral or feminine. So it always struck me as odd that he'd be anti gay.
[Edited 5/30/16 9:19am]
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Reply #51 posted 05/30/16 12:27pm

savvy

JudasLChrist said:

savvy said:

Yeah the LGBTQIZVBN... people couldn't really label him "homophobe" because he wasn't. SJWs want the world at large to equate someone that doesn't look at homosexuality as natural, as someone who fears and hates. It's not true.


This comment is super annoying. If you are against LGBT people, even if you back that up with your religious beliefs you are still accountable. You are still a bigot. There is no separation between LGBT people, and what you call 'SJW'. Fucking absurd.

See what I mean? If anyone has followed this line, you'll notice that this SJW edited my quote. Prince didn't hate. He didn't agree...but he didn't hate.

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Reply #52 posted 05/30/16 12:30pm

smoothcriminal
12

savvy said:

JudasLChrist said:


This comment is super annoying. If you are against LGBT people, even if you back that up with your religious beliefs you are still accountable. You are still a bigot. There is no separation between LGBT people, and what you call 'SJW'. Fucking absurd.

See what I mean? If anyone has followed this line, you'll notice that this SJW edited my quote. Prince didn't hate. He didn't agree...but he didn't hate.

Why do people complain about SJWs? I only really hear bigots complain about SJWs (not calling you one at all, just drawing from previous experiences). I've never encountered them in real life and only hear about them being online and on university campuses, apparently. Is their impact overblown or are we really being overrun by oversensitive millenials? I personally feel like people are just overreacting to a very vocal minority.

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Reply #53 posted 05/30/16 12:34pm

savvy

smoothcriminal12 said:

savvy said:

See what I mean? If anyone has followed this line, you'll notice that this SJW edited my quote. Prince didn't hate. He didn't agree...but he didn't hate.

Why do people complain about SJWs? I only really hear bigots complain about SJWs (not calling you one at all, just drawing from previous experiences). I've never encountered them in real life and only hear about them being online and on university campuses, apparently. Is their impact overblown or are we really being overrun by oversensitive millenials? I personally feel like people are just overreacting to a very vocal minority.

Which part of my quote equates to bigotry or a complaint? I made a factual observation (about the redaction of my initial quote) and a contention that I'm pretty sure nearly everyone on this site agrees with. The contention being that Prince didn't hate.

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Reply #54 posted 05/30/16 12:40pm

smoothcriminal
12

savvy said:

smoothcriminal12 said:

Why do people complain about SJWs? I only really hear bigots complain about SJWs (not calling you one at all, just drawing from previous experiences). I've never encountered them in real life and only hear about them being online and on university campuses, apparently. Is their impact overblown or are we really being overrun by oversensitive millenials? I personally feel like people are just overreacting to a very vocal minority.

Which part of my quote equates to bigotry or a complaint? I made a factual observation (about the redaction of my initial quote) and a contention that I'm pretty sure nearly everyone on this site agrees with. The contention being that Prince didn't hate.

Please read the part where I said you weren't a bigot. I spelled it out pretty clearly there so that you wouldn't think I was talking about you.

Anyways, I was never really addressing you specifically, I was merely using your comment as a jump off point.

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Reply #55 posted 05/30/16 12:41pm

savvy

uh huh

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Reply #56 posted 05/30/16 12:56pm

GirlBrother

avatar

It's fairly obvious that Prince didn't self-register on the usual male/feminine binary.

His symbol even... I mean aside from the flamboyant dress, make-up, and (at times) ambiguous lyrics, he chose to name himself with an androgynous symbol.

Now, whether that blurring of his gender identity extended to his actual sexual orientation - I don't know.

He possibly was bisexual. Then again, you could be bisexual from adolescence until death, and never have a same-sex experience. That doesn't mean that the inclination or attraction towards your own gender isn't there - even if you never act upon it.

With all this in mind, it makes his conversion to an anti-gay religion even sadder. If he'd ever had any romantic/sexual feelings towards another man, I can't imagine how much self-loathing that would incur.

And yes, Bambi is a gay-friendly song, because he's the loser in the story. The joke's on him, because he can't have her. She's cooler than him - and she's gay. How anybody could see that as homophobic is crazy.

Other later lyrics - and his later pronouncements in interviews were problematic though.

I just hear his rantings now, as him trying to convince himself... Utterly brainwashed after the death of his child into believing that "sin" had caused the baby's premature death.

When you view his post-Larry anti-gay views in the context of someone who's undergone some kind of "gay aversion" therapy, you can't be annoyed. You can only feel saddened.
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Reply #57 posted 05/30/16 12:56pm

RiotPaisley

OldFriends4Sale said:



joeycocopuffs said:


Honestly as a Queer woman myself being of fan of his music for 2 years, all I could say is that while I don't necessarly agree with his religious views or his supposed 'Anti' views of Gay Rights..
I don't think he seems to be the type of person to hold grudges against anyone really (or I could be wrong tho idk???).


He seems pretty chill towards Wendy & Lisa over the years or hell even people he ever worked with who might've been LGBT and might not even know about it.


Didn't he say that he had gay friends and they study the bible together like right after he was 'misinterpreted' on Gay Marriage?


[Edited 5/28/16 21:59pm]





That was always a funny image





My problem originated from him trying to convert people. But it never made sense to me that he felt he had to do that. I just tried not to think about it.

I read da bougosie or however you spell it- I'm lazy right now, but the lyrics are interpreted a few ways. He got unfairly beat up over that upon review- regardless of how you read it.

In the end it's a song and he had a gift to make everyone think it was about them.
Surprise, surprise.
Another treat. Another trick.
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Reply #58 posted 05/30/16 1:04pm

GuyBros

avatar

GirlBrother said:

And yes, Bambi is a gay-friendly song, because he's the loser in the story. The joke's on him, because he can't have her

No.

"I mean I always figured you were a trip at times, but now I'm beginning to believe you're a freaking vacation." -2elijah
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Reply #59 posted 05/30/16 1:05pm

214

GirlBrother said:

It's fairly obvious that Prince didn't self-register on the usual male/feminine binary. His symbol even... I mean aside from the flamboyant dress, make-up, and (at times) ambiguous lyrics, he chose to name himself with an androgynous symbol. Now, whether that blurring of his gender identity extended to his actual sexual orientation - I don't know. He possibly was bisexual. Then again, you could be bisexual from adolescence until death, and never have a same-sex experience. That doesn't mean that the inclination or attraction towards your own gender isn't there - even if you never act upon it. With all this in mind, it makes his conversion to an anti-gay religion even sadder. If he'd ever had any romantic/sexual feelings towards another man, I can't imagine how much self-loathing that would incur. And yes, Bambi is a gay-friendly song, because he's the loser in the story. The joke's on him, because he can't have her. She's cooler than him - and she's gay. How anybody could see that as homophobic is crazy. Other later lyrics - and his later pronouncements in interviews were problematic though. I just hear his rantings now, as him trying to convince himself... Utterly brainwashed after the death of his child into believing that "sin" had caused the baby's premature death. When you view his post-Larry anti-gay views in the context of someone who's undergone some kind of "gay aversion" therapy, you can't be annoyed. You can only feel saddened.

Very thoughtful and quite interesting, thanks.

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