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Thread started 12/13/15 1:51am

jarronw23

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HITNRUN era: 5 different phases? 5 different albums?? Emptying the VAULT???

I was just thinking, is it possible that this HITNRUN era will be 5 seperate albums? I think so. Why?

  • 1. First of all if you go on TIDAL's website and go to Prince's page, you will see that at the top of his page there are 5 different pictures. One thing that is interesting about these pictures is that each picture shows Prince with a different look and alludes to a different era in Prince's musical history. In the pictures we see Prince with the 3rdeyegirl/ Phase one look, the 2012--2013/ post W2A look, the Lovesexy era look, the Purple Rain era look, and finally the Controversy era look. It's interesting that the pictures appear in that order, in a backwards chronological order. 5 different eras = 5 different phases/albums?

  • 2.It's intersting that today HITNRUN: Phase Two came out and uses the exact same picture that is on TIDAL, the picture that appears right after the photo that was the album art for HITNRUN: PHASE ONE.

  • 3. Isn't it a little weird that most of the tracks that appeared on HITNRUN: Phase Two were songs that we had already heard. Most of them came out around 2011-2013, which is the era that Prince is shown in in the album art. Assuming that most of the Phase One songs were, written and produced in the 2014-2015 era, and I'm sure they were because they have Josh all over them, it would seem that Prince is releasing music on these HITNRUN albums that coincide with a certain era or period in his life. The songs released on the first two albums go with the picture on the album art. This is why we have these songs that came out a few years back and also a Prince from a few years ago, which is evidenced by his noticably smaller afro and shades that he wore at the 2012 Iheartmusic festival when he joined Mary J. on stage. HitnRun 2 tracks go backwards in time, which is just how the picyures on Prince's TIDAL page go. Maybe this will be a theme of the series?
  • I think that this means that we will be getting five seperate albums or phases of the HITNRUN era. Each album will consist of tracks written and produced around the era that Prince is shown in each of these photos. The next album could consist of tracks recorded around 1986-1990 or something like that, and so on.

  • Maybe this is a way for Prince to empty out some of his favorite vault tracks, which is something we all would like. I think this would be a very stylish and very Princely way to do it too. Eventhough we know he has a tendency to update or change around his vault tracks as he sees fit, it's still pretty dope.

  • Also, as a sidenote, I thought it was interesting that we see such a huge gap from the PHASE 2 album art picture (2012- 2014 era) and the next picture on the page, which is the LoveSexy era (1988/89). I wondered why there was such a huge number of years in between these two pictures. He definitely went through alot of style changes through this period which is over two decades. He also recorded and also released alot of music during these times. This might be because for most of the years that followed the Lovesexy era he became more associated with and known by the Symbol, which he even changed his name too in 1993. Maybe he only wants to release the PRINCE vault tracks and not the ARTIST vault tracks. He definitely seems like a different guy now than he did for much of the 90s and ARTIST formerly known as era. Even though he didn't go by the symbol all of those years, he started using it alot more around the graffiti bridge era and most people didn't really start calling him Prince again or know that he was back to Prince until after his big mainstream comeback with the release of Musicology or even until the 3121 era.

  • Or maybe it's because he actually did release alot of vault music during these years. He might feel like he already got the best material out from these eras. Along with the huge tally of albums that were released for mass consumption, in the ARTIST years and the early part of the millenium, we got Crystal Ball, Old friends 4 Sale, a few albums and tracks released on NPG music club as well as other releases I'm sure I'm sure I am forgetting. It seems that we got alot of vault material from those times, so maybe Prince sees no need to release a HITNRUN album based around these eras. I could be totally wrong and it could just be that those pictures are just the ones that Prince liked the most or they could be his own personal favorite eras of his life so this is why he chose them. Who knows. Either of these would make a pretty cool explanation though for the huge gap.

Maybe I'm wrong about all of this totally and there is no five part series yet. Nobody really knows. If you really think about it though, my explanation makes sense. We'll just have to wait and see. This is what's so cool about Prince, he keeps us guessing and on our toes. I'm definitely anxious to see where this HITNRUN series goes from here now.

Hopefully we can all be peaceful and respectful on this thread. This is all just speculation guys. No need for us to jump down each other's throats like I see going on in alot of the threads. Whether you like his music anymore or not, we are all here for the same reason which is to discuss Prince's music and artistry. We all have our different and varying opinions, let's be cool. smile

[Edited 12/13/15 1:55am]

Dead like Elvis.
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Reply #1 posted 12/13/15 2:38am

Strive

What if the artist created the first three portraits, Prince saw them and commissioned the two recent ones?

no yesterday or tomorrow, no better remedy for sorrow
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Reply #2 posted 12/13/15 2:40am

jarronw23

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Strive said:

What if the artist created the first three portraits, Prince saw them and commissioned the two recent ones?

That could be, but it still wouldn't make my theory wrong.

Dead like Elvis.
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Reply #3 posted 12/13/15 2:41am

tatocorcu

Strive said:

What if the artist created the first three portraits, Prince saw them and commissioned the two recent ones?


The artist wrote on Twitter that he had made artwork for Phase 1, 2 and 3
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Reply #4 posted 12/13/15 5:39am

funksterr

Even if that is true, it's a terrible idea, and a it's plan that is being terribly executed. First the title, HnR:Phase, is a greebly mouthful of nothing. As a consumer, you don't need to know what's on the album to just feel like, "PASS". Second, is there even a market for one Prince album, right now? What about 8 in less than 2 years? That's just too much. And then consider that none of the albums have anything close to a hot single on them and.... YES. I think this must be Prince's plan. Because it's every bit as ridiculous as anything he's come up with in the past.

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Reply #5 posted 12/13/15 5:55am

Polo1026

There are 4 portraits on twitter so probably 4 albums?

[Edited 12/13/15 5:57am]

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Reply #6 posted 12/13/15 6:48am

Pentacle


He would need WB's permission....... So no.

Stop the Prince Apologists ™
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Reply #7 posted 12/13/15 6:50am

one2vibe

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I was thinking the same thing. going backwards and in 5 or 4 stages as Now there is only 4 pics on twitter

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Reply #8 posted 12/13/15 6:57am

fabriziovenera
ndi

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+1

And "Free Urself" and "If I Could Get Your Attention" are perfect for a '88 Phase III album...

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Reply #9 posted 12/13/15 7:22am

tollyc

Pentacle said:


He would need WB's permission....... So no.

He would need permision for what? The songs he never gave them in the 1978-1995 era belong to him. Unrelased songs are just that, unreleased.

In theory the 1987-1989 HitnRun album could contain Adonis & Bathsheba, The Line, Cosmic Day, Grand Progression, etc...

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Reply #10 posted 12/13/15 7:23am

tollyc

jarronw23 said:

I was just thinking, is it possible that this HITNRUN era will be 5 seperate albums? I think so. Why?

  • 1. First of all if you go on TIDAL's website and go to Prince's page, you will see that at the top of his page there are 5 different pictures. One thing that is interesting about these pictures is that each picture shows Prince with a different look and alludes to a different era in Prince's musical history. In the pictures we see Prince with the 3rdeyegirl/ Phase one look, the 2012--2013/ post W2A look, the Lovesexy era look, the Purple Rain era look, and finally the Controversy era look. It's interesting that the pictures appear in that order, in a backwards chronological order. 5 different eras = 5 different phases/albums?

  • 2.It's intersting that today HITNRUN: Phase Two came out and uses the exact same picture that is on TIDAL, the picture that appears right after the photo that was the album art for HITNRUN: PHASE ONE.

  • 3. Isn't it a little weird that most of the tracks that appeared on HITNRUN: Phase Two were songs that we had already heard. Most of them came out around 2011-2013, which is the era that Prince is shown in in the album art. Assuming that most of the Phase One songs were, written and produced in the 2014-2015 era, and I'm sure they were because they have Josh all over them, it would seem that Prince is releasing music on these HITNRUN albums that coincide with a certain era or period in his life. The songs released on the first two albums go with the picture on the album art. This is why we have these songs that came out a few years back and also a Prince from a few years ago, which is evidenced by his noticably smaller afro and shades that he wore at the 2012 Iheartmusic festival when he joined Mary J. on stage. HitnRun 2 tracks go backwards in time, which is just how the picyures on Prince's TIDAL page go. Maybe this will be a theme of the series?
  • I think that this means that we will be getting five seperate albums or phases of the HITNRUN era. Each album will consist of tracks written and produced around the era that Prince is shown in each of these photos. The next album could consist of tracks recorded around 1986-1990 or something like that, and so on.

  • Maybe this is a way for Prince to empty out some of his favorite vault tracks, which is something we all would like. I think this would be a very stylish and very Princely way to do it too. Eventhough we know he has a tendency to update or change around his vault tracks as he sees fit, it's still pretty dope.

  • Also, as a sidenote, I thought it was interesting that we see such a huge gap from the PHASE 2 album art picture (2012- 2014 era) and the next picture on the page, which is the LoveSexy era (1988/89). I wondered why there was such a huge number of years in between these two pictures. He definitely went through alot of style changes through this period which is over two decades. He also recorded and also released alot of music during these times. This might be because for most of the years that followed the Lovesexy era he became more associated with and known by the Symbol, which he even changed his name too in 1993. Maybe he only wants to release the PRINCE vault tracks and not the ARTIST vault tracks. He definitely seems like a different guy now than he did for much of the 90s and ARTIST formerly known as era. Even though he didn't go by the symbol all of those years, he started using it alot more around the graffiti bridge era and most people didn't really start calling him Prince again or know that he was back to Prince until after his big mainstream comeback with the release of Musicology or even until the 3121 era.

  • Or maybe it's because he actually did release alot of vault music during these years. He might feel like he already got the best material out from these eras. Along with the huge tally of albums that were released for mass consumption, in the ARTIST years and the early part of the millenium, we got Crystal Ball, Old friends 4 Sale, a few albums and tracks released on NPG music club as well as other releases I'm sure I'm sure I am forgetting. It seems that we got alot of vault material from those times, so maybe Prince sees no need to release a HITNRUN album based around these eras. I could be totally wrong and it could just be that those pictures are just the ones that Prince liked the most or they could be his own personal favorite eras of his life so this is why he chose them. Who knows. Either of these would make a pretty cool explanation though for the huge gap.

Maybe I'm wrong about all of this totally and there is no five part series yet. Nobody really knows. If you really think about it though, my explanation makes sense. We'll just have to wait and see. This is what's so cool about Prince, he keeps us guessing and on our toes. I'm definitely anxious to see where this HITNRUN series goes from here now.

Hopefully we can all be peaceful and respectful on this thread. This is all just speculation guys. No need for us to jump down each other's throats like I see going on in alot of the threads. Whether you like his music anymore or not, we are all here for the same reason which is to discuss Prince's music and artistry. We all have our different and varying opinions, let's be cool. smile

[Edited 12/13/15 1:55am]

Very well thought out post and I 100% agree with it. I think he plans on releasing some of his favoriates in this manner depending upon how these first 2 sell on Tidal.

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Reply #11 posted 12/13/15 7:49am

Pentacle

tollyc said:

Pentacle said:


He would need WB's permission....... So no.

He would need permision for what? The songs he never gave them in the 1978-1995 era belong to him. Unrelased songs are just that, unreleased.

In theory the 1987-1989 HitnRun album could contain Adonis & Bathsheba, The Line, Cosmic Day, Grand Progression, etc...


No, it could not. WB paid for studio time etc.

Releasing Crystal Ball was actually illegal. Possibly because of the public argument WB said nothing,

but they did with the NPGMc or whatever audio shows.

Stop the Prince Apologists ™
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Reply #12 posted 12/13/15 7:55am

paulludvig

Pentacle said:

tollyc said:

He would need permision for what? The songs he never gave them in the 1978-1995 era belong to him. Unrelased songs are just that, unreleased.

In theory the 1987-1989 HitnRun album could contain Adonis & Bathsheba, The Line, Cosmic Day, Grand Progression, etc...


No, it could not. WB paid for studio time etc.

Releasing Crystal Ball was actually illegal. Possibly because of the public argument WB said nothing,

but they did with the NPGMc or whatever audio shows.

But now Prince owns the masters

The wooh is on the one!
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Reply #13 posted 12/13/15 8:18am

bashraka

funksterr said:

Even if that is true, it's a terrible idea, and a it's plan that is being terribly executed. First the title, HnR:Phase, is a greebly mouthful of nothing. As a consumer, you don't need to know what's on the album to just feel like, "PASS". Second, is there even a market for one Prince album, right now? What about 8 in less than 2 years? That's just too much. And then consider that none of the albums have anything close to a hot single on them and.... YES. I think this must be Prince's plan. Because it's every bit as ridiculous as anything he's come up with in the past.

What are you, Prince's A&R man? Flooding the market would be a bigger concern, if the means of distribuition was still compact discs and cassettes to record stores because record store owners being unable to sell competing titles by the same artist and the issue with floor spacing. Second, most consumers only paying for one title per purchase with disposable income. There are no more record stores and the few retail outlets that sell music, sell only a handful of new releases that barely sell compared to iTunes or Amaazon. In the digital age, where Prince's career is, "flooding the market" is inconsequential-he has no sales figures to top, he's less restricted than most recording artists to release music at his leisure. Lastly, who cares there isn't anything close to a "hot single" on Hitnrun Phase 2?

[Edited 12/13/15 8:22am]

3121 #1 THIS YEAR
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Reply #14 posted 12/13/15 8:25am

Pentacle

paulludvig said:

Pentacle said:


No, it could not. WB paid for studio time etc.

Releasing Crystal Ball was actually illegal. Possibly because of the public argument WB said nothing,

but they did with the NPGMc or whatever audio shows.

But now Prince owns the masters


Songs that were never on albums: no masters.

Anyway, I'm not a lawyer but I don't think he can...
The fact that he is not giving WB outtakes, might mean he doesn't want to either....

Extralovable and If I Could... were remakes.

Stop the Prince Apologists ™
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Reply #15 posted 12/13/15 8:45am

alandail

Pentacle said:

tollyc said:

He would need permision for what? The songs he never gave them in the 1978-1995 era belong to him. Unrelased songs are just that, unreleased.

In theory the 1987-1989 HitnRun album could contain Adonis & Bathsheba, The Line, Cosmic Day, Grand Progression, etc...


No, it could not. WB paid for studio time etc.

Releasing Crystal Ball was actually illegal. Possibly because of the public argument WB said nothing,

but they did with the NPGMc or whatever audio shows.

WB didn't pay for the studio time when Prince recorded at paisley park, so he should own pretty much every unreleased track recorded after purple rain.

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Reply #16 posted 12/13/15 8:46am

alandail

it would take a heck of a lot mroe than 3 more albums to empty the vault. It's doubtful even with an album a quarter that he's releasing material faster than he's recording it.

[Edited 12/13/15 8:47am]

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Reply #17 posted 12/13/15 8:47am

Pentacle

alandail said:

Pentacle said:


No, it could not. WB paid for studio time etc.

Releasing Crystal Ball was actually illegal. Possibly because of the public argument WB said nothing,

but they did with the NPGMc or whatever audio shows.

WB didn't pay for the studio time when Prince recorded at paisley park, so he should own pretty much every unreleased track recorded after purple rain.


Wasn't the first track recorded there The Ballad Of DP?

Anyway, I don't think he has the legal rights to these songs, but I'm hoping someone else will weigh in on this.

Stop the Prince Apologists ™
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Reply #18 posted 12/13/15 9:56am

tab32792

he was still using sunset sound post purple rain but he was also using the warehouse and his home studio before paisley was done in 87.

thing is we dont know who paid for the studio time exactly. i would think WB did but we dont know. i think whatever was recorded during that time released or not, might require permission BUT once again, he got his original masters back so who knows. i doubt he's emptying the vault tho.

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Reply #19 posted 12/13/15 5:25pm

lezama

avatar

Pentacle said:

Anyway, I don't think he has the legal rights to these songs, but I'm hoping someone else will weigh in on this.

At issue in the copyright ownership are the recordings, not the songs themselves.

Change it one more time..
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Reply #20 posted 12/13/15 7:19pm

roverlo

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To OP: though I like your way of speculation, I hardy see it as emptying the Vault... The tracks on HNR Phase 2 were officially made available (released) by Prince in the last couple of years, as you pointed out.

If emptying the Vault is basically rereleasing tracks already officially available, doesn't that mean that the third HNR will be a consist mainly of tracks released on the album Lovesexy, HNR phase 4 will be the remaster of Purple Rain, and the fifth a remastered Controversy? Maybe each with some recordings from that period yet unknown to us, or leaked recordings (of that era) from the Vault.

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Reply #21 posted 12/14/15 4:40am

databank

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1/ I find the OP's theory of 5 volumes of HitNRun based on the Tidal covers quite convincing. I'd be inclined to believe those albums will consist of material recorded between 2010 and now, though, as sort of a way to catch-up with lost time. I do not understand the significance of the last 3 covers' retro look, though. I guess we'll see in a coupla months when Phase 3 shows up.

.

2/ Regarding the debate above: when an artist is under exclusive contract everything they record, studio or live, theorically belongs to the label, regardless of who paid the actual studio bill or whether the material was released or not. Of course the label would have to be able to prove that a song was recorded during the artist's contractual years but in the case of an artist as documented as P this isn't much of an issue. The info that P couldn't release anything, studio or live, from 78-95 comes from Alan Leeds who stated it here back in 2011. Until that point it was believed that P owned the unreleased recordings from the WB years.

.

3/ Prince releasing most of the songs that ended on Crystal Ball, the song Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic and lots of the things that ended on NPGMC and the Ahdio Shows between 98 and 2001 was clearly a breach of contract. It was said above that WB didn't say anything until NPGMC then asked him to put an end to it: we in fact do NOT know anything about this, it's only a theory I actually brought up here in the first place, which is that WB said nothing for CB and Rave because they wanted to avoid another public war, but when P started NPGMC and went as far as to rerelease WB tracks (Thieves, Horny Pony) they sent him a C&D, basically saying "we'll turn a blind eye on everything you've released so far if u'll stop now and won't make a public fuss about it". Had WB sued it's likely P had no way to make a case and his lawyers told him to back off, which he did. I have no fact backing this, only that between 97-98 P seemed quite eager to open the vault, as examplified by the aformentioned projects + the planned then canceled releases of Roadhouse Garden and Crystal Ball II. Then quite abruptly, in 2002, Prince interrupted the online version of NPGMC and stopped releasing ANYTHING from the WB years (save a discreet rerelease of the Live At Paisley Park EP from 1995 in 2005). Either he changed his mind about the vault or he was forced to change his mind. Either way eventually someone will talk, so let's wait.

.

4/ Whether the exclusivity distribution deal WB still has with P's released music from 78-95 also applies to unreleased and live material is unknown, we're left to pure speculation.

A COMPREHENSIVE PRINCE DISCOGRAPHY (work in progress ^^): https://sites.google.com/...iscog/home
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Reply #22 posted 12/14/15 6:55am

alandail

Pentacle said:

alandail said:

WB didn't pay for the studio time when Prince recorded at paisley park, so he should own pretty much every unreleased track recorded after purple rain.


Wasn't the first track recorded there The Ballad Of DP?

Anyway, I don't think he has the legal rights to these songs, but I'm hoping someone else will weigh in on this.

For some reason I thought the song Paisley Park was recorded at the studio, thus the whole around the world in a day. I see now the studio itself didn't open until 1988. At a minimum Prince should have the rights to all of those unreleased songs. He may have the rights to the other unreleased songs, he fufiled his obligation to WB by delivering the albums, and WB certainly recouped the money spend on studio time off of those album sales.

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Reply #23 posted 12/14/15 7:32am

laurarichardso
n

funksterr said:

Even if that is true, it's a terrible idea, and a it's plan that is being terribly executed. First the title, HnR:Phase, is a greebly mouthful of nothing. As a consumer, you don't need to know what's on the album to just feel like, "PASS". Second, is there even a market for one Prince album, right now? What about 8 in less than 2 years? That's just too much. And then consider that none of the albums have anything close to a hot single on them and.... YES. I think this must be Prince's plan. Because it's every bit as ridiculous as anything he's come up with in the past.


/--/ He has good singles for the Urban Ac chart he has. Song on that chart right now. He has no chance at almost 60 years of age. Pop station do not play music by 60 year old guys. He is making music for the audience that is supporting him.
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Reply #24 posted 12/14/15 7:50am

feeluupp

avatar

Strive said:

What if the artist created the first three portraits, Prince saw them and commissioned the two recent ones?

He knows exactly what's going on... He tweeted their would be a Phase 2 when he was working on the second cover...

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Reply #25 posted 12/14/15 11:19am

alexanderalm

I really really hope that you are right with your theory!

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Reply #26 posted 12/14/15 11:40am

fms

avatar

Not sure about emptying the vault, though we should remember that in 2011,12 and 13 Prince released no new album, which was a career first. Meanwhile he had singles, downloads, new sings littered here and there. HITNRUN phases may be his way of playing catch up with some of those songs, finding them a home on albums.
Stand at the crossroads, and look, and ask for the ancient paths...(Jeremiah 6:16) www.ancientfaithradio.com

dezinonac eb lliw noitulove ehT
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Reply #27 posted 12/14/15 4:21pm

XSX

avatar

Frankly unless Prince withdraws from the scene of his own crimes against his music on HITNRUN 2 and opens the door to the vault so people can go in a dig out the value, it is only a matter of time before he utterly undoes everything he ever did.

HITNRUN 2 is objectively bad. It's not just what a bad emulation would be like but a kind of piece of anti-matter that will now erase the past to leave the present with just SCREWDRIVER

“I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions.”
-Robert Anton Wilson
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Reply #28 posted 12/14/15 4:23pm

tatocorcu

XSX said:

Frankly unless Prince withdraws from the scene of his own crimes against his music on HITNRUN 2 and opens the door to the vault so people can go in a dig out the value, it is only a matter of time before he utterly undoes everything he ever did.

HITNRUN 2 is objectively bad. It's not just what a bad emulation would be like but a kind of piece of anti-matter that will now erase the past to leave the present with just SCREWDRIVER


You are objectively wrong.
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Reply #29 posted 12/14/15 11:57pm

ComeHereLetMeC
utYourHair

databank said:

1/ I find the OP's theory of 5 volumes of HitNRun based on the Tidal covers quite convincing. I'd be inclined to believe those albums will consist of material recorded between 2010 and now, though, as sort of a way to catch-up with lost time. I do not understand the significance of the last 3 covers' retro look, though. I guess we'll see in a coupla months when Phase 3 shows up.

.

2/ Regarding the debate above: when an artist is under exclusive contract everything they record, studio or live, theorically belongs to the label, regardless of who paid the actual studio bill or whether the material was released or not. Of course the label would have to be able to prove that a song was recorded during the artist's contractual years but in the case of an artist as documented as P this isn't much of an issue. The info that P couldn't release anything, studio or live, from 78-95 comes from Alan Leeds who stated it here back in 2011. Until that point it was believed that P owned the unreleased recordings from the WB years.

.

3/ Prince releasing most of the songs that ended on Crystal Ball, the song Rave Un2 The Joy Fantastic and lots of the things that ended on NPGMC and the Ahdio Shows between 98 and 2001 was clearly a breach of contract. It was said above that WB didn't say anything until NPGMC then asked him to put an end to it: we in fact do NOT know anything about this, it's only a theory I actually brought up here in the first place, which is that WB said nothing for CB and Rave because they wanted to avoid another public war, but when P started NPGMC and went as far as to rerelease WB tracks (Thieves, Horny Pony) they sent him a C&D, basically saying "we'll turn a blind eye on everything you've released so far if u'll stop now and won't make a public fuss about it". Had WB sued it's likely P had no way to make a case and his lawyers told him to back off, which he did. I have no fact backing this, only that between 97-98 P seemed quite eager to open the vault, as examplified by the aformentioned projects + the planned then canceled releases of Roadhouse Garden and Crystal Ball II. Then quite abruptly, in 2002, Prince interrupted the online version of NPGMC and stopped releasing ANYTHING from the WB years (save a discreet rerelease of the Live At Paisley Park EP from 1995 in 2005). Either he changed his mind about the vault or he was forced to change his mind. Either way eventually someone will talk, so let's wait.

.

4/ Whether the exclusivity distribution deal WB still has with P's released music from 78-95 also applies to unreleased and live material is unknown, we're left to pure speculation.

THANK YOU DATA BANK! Very informative. I dig your "theories" smile

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