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Thread started 11/20/08 8:34am

misiu

Prince is an avarage musician..

After talking with a amazing musician about prince and showing him some of prince best music we came the the paint to say that:
Prince is just another avarage musician! Not bad, and not great! There are thousands of people better than him! he is an good guitarplayer, a good paino player, ...and so on! But never great nor the greatest!( some people here maybe never heard some people like gary moore playing goutar,,,....wow..)
Maybe thats the problem with weak respond of the music buying public! he is not enough to be a rocker,not enough to be an rnb, he is everything but...is that what the people want..

At the end he has written some really great pop songs, thats what people will remember, not his guitar playing.
He will be remembered as one of the greatest pop stars (but not as musician...)
He is like MJ an entertainer( higher that Mj because he can play some instruments..)

i will still listen to him, but my ears will be also open for other great music!
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Reply #1 posted 11/20/08 8:35am

LondonStyle

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misiu said:

After talking with a amazing musician about prince and showing him some of prince best music we came the the paint to say that:
Prince is just another avarage musician! Not bad, and not great! There are thousands of people better than him! he is an good guitarplayer, a good paino player, ...and so on! But never great nor the greatest!( some people here maybe never heard some people like gary moore playing goutar,,,....wow..)
Maybe thats the problem with weak respond of the music buying public! he is not enough to be a rocker,not enough to be an rnb, he is everything but...is that what the people want..

At the end he has written some really great pop songs, thats what people will remember, not his guitar playing.
He will be remembered as one of the greatest pop stars (but not as musician...)
He is like MJ an entertainer( higher that Mj because he can play some instruments..)

i will still listen to him, but my ears will be also open for other great music!


how long was the conversation? 1 minute lol lol lol
Da, Da, Da....Emancipation....Free..don't think I ain't..! London 21 Nights...Clap your hands...you know the rest..
James Brown & Michael Jackson RIP, your music still lives with us!
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Reply #2 posted 11/20/08 8:41am

Dave1992

Gary Moore is a wonderful guitar player, surely one of the best! But has he ever done any other thing than the odd blues-rock thang? His fingers are quick, but that's it. As a Prince fan you should know what it's all about.
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Reply #3 posted 11/20/08 8:46am

Marrk

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misiu said:

After talking with a amazing musician about prince and showing him some of prince best music we came the the paint to say that:
Prince is just another avarage musician! Not bad, and not great! There are thousands of people better than him! he is an good guitarplayer, a good paino player, ...and so on! But never great nor the greatest!( some people here maybe never heard some people like gary moore playing goutar,,,....wow..)
Maybe thats the problem with weak respond of the music buying public! he is not enough to be a rocker,not enough to be an rnb, he is everything but...is that what the people want..

At the end he has written some really great pop songs, thats what people will remember, not his guitar playing.
He will be remembered as one of the greatest pop stars (but not as musician...)
He is like MJ an entertainer( higher that Mj because he can play some instruments..)

i will still listen to him, but my ears will be also open for other great music!


So. You're an average speller! wink
Yeah, we'll, we'll try to imagine what silence looks like.
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Reply #4 posted 11/20/08 9:03am

KWms31

Prince is not the avarage musician.He is much more smarter and talented.Also when you consider the amount of music he put out there in his life that is why his true fans never get bored with his music.He also helped other artists.When it comes to talent Prince is the best.
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Reply #5 posted 11/20/08 9:12am

funkyhead

thing is he's more than a musician, try amazing singer, world class song writer [when he puts his mind to it!], live performer, producer etc. So go tell your friend to shove it!.
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Reply #6 posted 11/20/08 9:17am

laurarichardso
n

misiu said:

After talking with a amazing musician about prince and showing him some of prince best music we came the the paint to say that:
Prince is just another avarage musician! Not bad, and not great! There are thousands of people better than him! he is an good guitarplayer, a good paino player, ...and so on! But never great nor the greatest!( some people here maybe never heard some people like gary moore playing goutar,,,....wow..)
Maybe thats the problem with weak respond of the music buying public! he is not enough to be a rocker,not enough to be an rnb, he is everything but...is that what the people want..

At the end he has written some really great pop songs, thats what people will remember, not his guitar playing.
He will be remembered as one of the greatest pop stars (but not as musician...)
He is like MJ an entertainer( higher that Mj because he can play some instruments..)

i will still listen to him, but my ears will be also open for other great music!

-----
He is like MJ an entertainer( higher that Mj because he can play some instruments..)

You lost all creditability with that comment.
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Reply #7 posted 11/20/08 9:25am

funksterr

I'm not going to knock what you said, because Prince has released a TON of average bland music. It overshadows his best work at this point. If you take out the Wendy and Lisa years, he is not as impressive as you would think. Though to call him an average guitar and bass player is stretching the truth.
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Reply #8 posted 11/20/08 9:35am

JayJai

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I believe that mainly because Prince can play over 22 instruments is the reason why he's considered a great musician in the first place. There might b better guitar players than him, better piano players than him, better drummers than him, but being able to play alllll those instruments makes him a great musician. Also being able to play all different types of guitars in addition to different styles on the guitar can be taken into consideration. Of course there are other great musicians, some unheard of, but callin Prince an 'average' musician...nah...don't think so.
Reality Check: He also carries the entire package, looks, style, stage performance, his is swagger is on point and because of that, ppl are drawn to him, searchin for his skills within his musicianship...if he was the 'average-lookin Joe" (don't knock me cause y'all kno wat I mean), he may not have been admired by so many (even people that aren't interested in music, now are). Now if Gary Moore had the entire package on lock, his popularity would've soared even more than it has (even though I don't kno who he is).
I swear the words "HATER" is wayyy over-rated...smh
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Reply #9 posted 11/20/08 9:50am

kenlacam

I'm inclined to think that the OP is trying to stir up controversy. As a musician myself (so I feel like I'm qualified to make this following statement), I know that Prince is an above average musician. Study your Prince history:an average musician cannot go into the studio BY HIMSELF and do an entire album from start to finish. He is definitely above average, and deserves the money and fame that he has. His musicianship skills, along with singing and performance ability puts him higher than your 'average musician'. To say that he is like MJ except can play more instruments, is really a comment based on ignorance. eek
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Reply #10 posted 11/20/08 10:08am

myfavorite

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prince is an average musician, i wonder what his gifts are???
THE B EST BE YOURSELF AS LONG AS YOUR SELF ISNT A DYCK[/r]

**....Someti
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Reply #11 posted 11/20/08 10:29am

muirdo

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I think what has happened is that the OP is pretty much in awe of this "amazing" musician.Said "amazing" musician isnt particulary into Prince very much.OP has tried to convert "amazing" musician with absolutely no success."Amazing" Musician has managed to persuade OP that Prince is average and not quite as "amazing" as he is.

What can be learned from this?
Learn to think for yourself OP we are all individuals.
Fuck the funk - it's time to ditch the worn-out Vegas horns fills, pick up the geee-tar and finally ROCK THE MUTHA-FUCKER!! He hinted at this on Chaos, now it's time to step up and fully DELIVER!!
woot!
KrystleEyes 22/03/05
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Reply #12 posted 11/20/08 10:35am

mcmeekle

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Jack of all trades, master of none.

nod
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Reply #13 posted 11/20/08 10:43am

myfavorite

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I just need 5 minutes with the boy!. giggle



when are we going on a date mcmeekle...
THE B EST BE YOURSELF AS LONG AS YOUR SELF ISNT A DYCK[/r]

**....Someti
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Reply #14 posted 11/20/08 10:54am

mcmeekle

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myfavorite said:

I just need 5 minutes with the boy!. giggle



when are we going on a date mcmeekle...

I'll ask the missus.....

confused
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Reply #15 posted 11/20/08 10:56am

myfavorite

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..just can't catch a break. disbelief ...lol
THE B EST BE YOURSELF AS LONG AS YOUR SELF ISNT A DYCK[/r]

**....Someti
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Reply #16 posted 11/20/08 10:59am

dreamshaman32

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just readin this thread encourages me to turn on to gary moore ( i wont hate), but i'm not persuaded by his argument. if prince were average why is it that of all modern "pop" stars (i'll even use your minimization) he is the one who great musicians as well as hip hop and R&B artist cite as the real deal. when David Bowie, Miles Davis, Eric Clapton, DÁngelo ( a new school derivitive of prince) say the same thing theres fire behind the smoke.Remember the thread "prince isnt a funk artist" Even that guy could not explain Why George Clinton (before becoming an employee of paisley park) stated "he can go in the studio and do what me and james need a band for and do it all by himself".Sorry Dude, thats not average.Ask jimmy page what he thought of princes guitar playing (on Zeplin tunes!!) during the O2 run, he went apeshit he was so impressed.
He is even more extroidinary because his self cultivated image is so strong that it often undermined his talent as a "musicians musician". I had a co worker who didnt know he could play guitar until the super bowl LOL, and that is all his doing. I'm sure Gary Moore is special in his own right but when Stevie Wonder tells me someone is a genuis i dont need any second opinions.
[Edited 11/20/08 11:06am]
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Reply #17 posted 11/20/08 11:01am

myfavorite

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mcmeekle said:

myfavorite said:

I just need 5 minutes with the boy!. giggle



when are we going on a date mcmeekle...

I'll ask the missus.....

confused




are you retarded! ! !
THE B EST BE YOURSELF AS LONG AS YOUR SELF ISNT A DYCK[/r]

**....Someti
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Reply #18 posted 11/20/08 11:03am

muirdo

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one of my favourite ever threads in here was as follows:

I often wonder, especially in the early days before computers and sequencers were a heavy part of the recording process, how Prince did those long extended jams on his albums.

What I mean is - many of his songs would be a few verses, a few choruses, and then would launch into long jams... such as DMSR, 1999, Just Another Sucker, Just As Long As We're Together, Let's Work, etc.

To write a structured song with verses and bridges, etc, is relatively simple. It's all mapped out basically. Like the Kenny Rogers song "The Gambler" for an extremely simple example.

But I wonder, how did Prince "map out" those jams if he was doing it all on his own. Could he "hear" all the parts in his head before starting? Or did he literally say "I am going to make this song 8 minutes and 25 seconds."?

This sounds like a simple question, but when you are actually recording in that fashion, it is really a mystery. The reason being is that if you are recording the drum part first, for example, and at 8:14 you decide to do a fill or a stop, then you will have to remember to change with the drums at 8:14 when you are doing the bass, synth, vocals, etc...

I am probably phrasing this question to sound complicated, but I'm trying...

For another example... The song "I'm Yours" has kind of a massive build up, or crescendo, throughout the song to the ending. Somehow Prince had to known in his mind to make all the parts interlock to create this crescendo properly.

It would be one thing to record a song like this with a full band and give the other bands members cues and whatnot, but playing all the instruments yourself? Without the aide of ProTools (in 1980)? And at a studio that probably charged $50+ per hour?

That's feckin' amazing.


nuff said. biggrin
Fuck the funk - it's time to ditch the worn-out Vegas horns fills, pick up the geee-tar and finally ROCK THE MUTHA-FUCKER!! He hinted at this on Chaos, now it's time to step up and fully DELIVER!!
woot!
KrystleEyes 22/03/05
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Reply #19 posted 11/20/08 11:21am

Graycap23

Prince sits at the head of the table of the best musicians that have graced this Earth. People have their opinions.....but 2 say that Prince is average is uninformed at best.
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Reply #20 posted 11/20/08 11:33am

MorehouseMan

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Graycap23 said:

Prince sits at the head of the table of the best musicians that have graced this Earth. People have their opinions.....but 2 say that Prince is average is uninformed at best.



Yeah, I'm not big on these types of threads because so much is subjective, but that said, saying that Prince is an "average musician" is pretty ridiculous. My piano instructor, who is a VERY accomplished classical pianist did not hesitate to refer to Prince as a genius when we entered into a dicussion regarding his skills. I've also been to several jam sessions where older cats have commented on Prince being great musician. They may not dig his music per se, but they all express much respect regarding his musicianship.
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Reply #21 posted 11/20/08 11:42am

Graycap23

MorehouseMan said:

Graycap23 said:

Prince sits at the head of the table of the best musicians that have graced this Earth. People have their opinions.....but 2 say that Prince is average is uninformed at best.



Yeah, I'm not big on these types of threads because so much is subjective, but that said, saying that Prince is an "average musician" is pretty ridiculous. My piano instructor, who is a VERY accomplished classical pianist did not hesitate to refer to Prince as a genius when we entered into a dicussion regarding his skills. I've also been to several jam sessions where older cats have commented on Prince being great musician. They may not dig his music per se, but they all express much respect regarding his musicianship.

Exactly right.
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Reply #22 posted 11/20/08 1:14pm

AVENUEMAN

muirdo said:

one of my favourite ever threads in here was as follows:

I often wonder, especially in the early days before computers and sequencers were a heavy part of the recording process, how Prince did those long extended jams on his albums.

What I mean is - many of his songs would be a few verses, a few choruses, and then would launch into long jams... such as DMSR, 1999, Just Another Sucker, Just As Long As We're Together, Let's Work, etc.

To write a structured song with verses and bridges, etc, is relatively simple. It's all mapped out basically. Like the Kenny Rogers song "The Gambler" for an extremely simple example.

But I wonder, how did Prince "map out" those jams if he was doing it all on his own. Could he "hear" all the parts in his head before starting? Or did he literally say "I am going to make this song 8 minutes and 25 seconds."?

This sounds like a simple question, but when you are actually recording in that fashion, it is really a mystery. The reason being is that if you are recording the drum part first, for example, and at 8:14 you decide to do a fill or a stop, then you will have to remember to change with the drums at 8:14 when you are doing the bass, synth, vocals, etc...

I am probably phrasing this question to sound complicated, but I'm trying...

For another example... The song "I'm Yours" has kind of a massive build up, or crescendo, throughout the song to the ending. Somehow Prince had to known in his mind to make all the parts interlock to create this crescendo properly.

It would be one thing to record a song like this with a full band and give the other bands members cues and whatnot, but playing all the instruments yourself? Without the aide of ProTools (in 1980)? And at a studio that probably charged $50+ per hour?

That's feckin' amazing.


nuff said. biggrin



I understand exactly what you're saying here. I've recorded some of my own songs that were extended after the last verse or chorus. It's a matter of knowing the exact sequence of the song and then executing it during the actual recording. I'd start out with the drum machine, usually singing the lyrics so I'd be able to know where I am in the tune. The bass comes next, following along with the lyrics in my head. The keyboard follows the bass. Any breaks or added fills were usually improvised as I went along. Vocals after keys, followed by guitar. Guitar would mostly always be recorded lastly for me because I liked to play around the lead vocal.
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Reply #23 posted 11/20/08 1:22pm

pplrain

avatar

muirdo said:

one of my favourite ever threads in here was as follows:

I often wonder, especially in the early days before computers and sequencers were a heavy part of the recording process, how Prince did those long extended jams on his albums.

What I mean is - many of his songs would be a few verses, a few choruses, and then would launch into long jams... such as DMSR, 1999, Just Another Sucker, Just As Long As We're Together, Let's Work, etc.

To write a structured song with verses and bridges, etc, is relatively simple. It's all mapped out basically. Like the Kenny Rogers song "The Gambler" for an extremely simple example.

But I wonder, how did Prince "map out" those jams if he was doing it all on his own. Could he "hear" all the parts in his head before starting? Or did he literally say "I am going to make this song 8 minutes and 25 seconds."?

This sounds like a simple question, but when you are actually recording in that fashion, it is really a mystery. The reason being is that if you are recording the drum part first, for example, and at 8:14 you decide to do a fill or a stop, then you will have to remember to change with the drums at 8:14 when you are doing the bass, synth, vocals, etc...

I am probably phrasing this question to sound complicated, but I'm trying...

For another example... The song "I'm Yours" has kind of a massive build up, or crescendo, throughout the song to the ending. Somehow Prince had to known in his mind to make all the parts interlock to create this crescendo properly.

It would be one thing to record a song like this with a full band and give the other bands members cues and whatnot, but playing all the instruments yourself? Without the aide of ProTools (in 1980)? And at a studio that probably charged $50+ per hour?

That's feckin' amazing.


nuff said. biggrin


I am not a musician but he does make some amazing music. I think he hears the tune in his head, then lays down the drums first.

What is amazing about him is he plays all of the instruments on his recordings, he composes his own music, AND sings it. One man band! Amazing.. I don't know too many musicians out there who can do ALL of that.
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Reply #24 posted 11/20/08 1:31pm

CJBabyDaddy

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John Lennon, Stevie Wonder, Paul Simon, Bob Dylan, Marvin Gaye, Paul McCartney, Billy Joel, Pete Townshend, Elton John.

All average musicians and singers at best.

The list goes on and on. Imagine what they'd have accomplished if they each had more musical talent. nod
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Reply #25 posted 11/20/08 1:32pm

Graycap23

CJBabyDaddy said:

John Lennon, Stevie Wonder, Paul Simon, Bob Dylan, Marvin Gaye, Paul McCartney, Billy Joel, Pete Townshend, Elton John.

All average musicians and singers at best.

The list goes on and on. Imagine what they'd have accomplished if they each had more musical talent. nod

lol....true dat. lol
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Reply #26 posted 11/20/08 1:35pm

SPYZFAN1

Co sign with everything JayJai said. P was the ENTIRE package. Everything he did in the 80's and a good part of the 90's kept us reeled in and interested (from the look, music, image, etc).

I love Gary Moore, but I'd rather listen to him than look at him. I love Lewis Taylor, but who knows if he can dance and move like P. And I praise Sir Paul McC., Steveland, and Todd Rundgeren, but P just had it all.

Any musician/songwriter will tell you tracking songs and playing all the parts can be a difficult task. P made it sound like one big band. I really hope one day he goes back to that.

...but getting to the point, he's waaaay beyond "AVERAGE".
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Reply #27 posted 11/20/08 2:26pm

Dayclear

Prince is very much above the rest, thank you. nod
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Reply #28 posted 11/20/08 2:51pm

purplepolitici
an

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flipped off lock smile
The icing on the fucking cake.
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Reply #29 posted 11/20/08 3:06pm

berniejobs

avatar

muirdo said:

one of my favourite ever threads in here was as follows:

I often wonder, especially in the early days before computers and sequencers were a heavy part of the recording process, how Prince did those long extended jams on his albums.

What I mean is - many of his songs would be a few verses, a few choruses, and then would launch into long jams... such as DMSR, 1999, Just Another Sucker, Just As Long As We're Together, Let's Work, etc.

To write a structured song with verses and bridges, etc, is relatively simple. It's all mapped out basically. Like the Kenny Rogers song "The Gambler" for an extremely simple example.

But I wonder, how did Prince "map out" those jams if he was doing it all on his own. Could he "hear" all the parts in his head before starting? Or did he literally say "I am going to make this song 8 minutes and 25 seconds."?

This sounds like a simple question, but when you are actually recording in that fashion, it is really a mystery. The reason being is that if you are recording the drum part first, for example, and at 8:14 you decide to do a fill or a stop, then you will have to remember to change with the drums at 8:14 when you are doing the bass, synth, vocals, etc...

I am probably phrasing this question to sound complicated, but I'm trying...

For another example... The song "I'm Yours" has kind of a massive build up, or crescendo, throughout the song to the ending. Somehow Prince had to known in his mind to make all the parts interlock to create this crescendo properly.

It would be one thing to record a song like this with a full band and give the other bands members cues and whatnot, but playing all the instruments yourself? Without the aide of ProTools (in 1980)? And at a studio that probably charged $50+ per hour?

That's feckin' amazing.


nuff said. biggrin


Uhh, yeah, I think I wrote those quoted paragraphs... those works of literary genius... thanks for quoting me but next time can you say who was the source? smile (half kidding)
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