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Thread started 08/15/19 1:00pm

joyinrepetitio
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Jealous Jesse?

So after hearing Jungle Love sung by Prince, I can see why Jesse might have felt some kind of way. As the story goes, Jesse brought a rough instrumental of Jungle Love to Prince, in which Prince praised Jesse for finally bringing the FUNK.

I think the problem arose when Prince brought back a fully fleshed out song, produced with all instruments and lyrics, and it was fire. I'm sure Jesse was like "Damn, over night!" However, Prince gave Jesse under Tionne Music, which was generous on Prince's part seeing it's probably The Time's biggest hit. But I can definitey see how Jesse might have been salty when Prince took his idea and Prince-gasmed all over it and made it a hit.

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Reply #1 posted 08/15/19 1:12pm

Seahorsie

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Well, when you have more talen in your little finger................you know!!

Good morning children...take a look out your window, the world is falling...
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Reply #2 posted 08/15/19 3:30pm

PennyPurple

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Shouldn't this be in Associate Artist forum?

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Reply #3 posted 08/15/19 4:04pm

Militant

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Um, Jesse's issues with Prince had nothing to do with Jungle Love. Jesse was happy that Jungle Love was used.

What he wasn't happy about.... well, first off, Jesse wrote the groove for "The Belle of St Mark". Prince took it and didn't credit him. Then, Prince turned around and credited Jesse for "Shortberry Strawcake", which is a song Jesse had nothing to do with.

Guess which one of those songs was a single? Yup.

Then there's the whole Shockadelica thing..... you know about that one right?

Finally, there were certain promoters, agents and managers that wanted to work with Jesse, and Prince allegedly pressured those people into not representing Jesse. Not sure how public that is, but people who know Jesse know that he's spoken on this before.




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Reply #4 posted 08/15/19 4:17pm

WhisperingDand
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Yes, issues usually arose from the songs he didn't give credit for, not the ones he did give credit... like he never done before (ooohaawaaooouuu).

[Edited 8/15/19 16:18pm]

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Reply #5 posted 08/15/19 4:27pm

eugenius

What's up with Shockadelica? I know there was something about Jesse tittling his LP Shockadelica, but not having a song with the same name on the track list, then Prince writing Shockadelica as a fuck you to Jesse, but there has to be something more than that, right? Something that has to do with finances?

Militant said:

Then there's the whole Shockadelica thing..... you know about that one right?

Why is it so difficult to upload an avatar?
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Reply #6 posted 08/15/19 4:52pm

purplethunder3
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Jesse Johnson is still performing...if anyone cares to check him out...

"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything." --Plato
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Reply #7 posted 08/15/19 4:58pm

PeggyO

Militant said:

Um, Jesse's issues with Prince had nothing to do with Jungle Love. Jesse was happy that Jungle Love was used.

What he wasn't happy about.... well, first off, Jesse wrote the groove for "The Belle of St Mark". Prince took it and didn't credit him. Then, Prince turned around and credited Jesse for "Shortberry Strawcake", which is a song Jesse had nothing to do with.

Guess which one of those songs was a single? Yup.

Then there's the whole Shockadelica thing..... you know about that one right?

Finally, there were certain promoters, agents and managers that wanted to work with Jesse, and Prince allegedly pressured those people into not representing Jesse. Not sure how public that is, but people who know Jesse know that he's spoken on this before.




I've heard the same thing. Why can't Prince fans get that he mis-treated Jesse?

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Reply #8 posted 08/15/19 5:34pm

purplethunder3
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PeggyO said:

Militant said:

Um, Jesse's issues with Prince had nothing to do with Jungle Love. Jesse was happy that Jungle Love was used.

What he wasn't happy about.... well, first off, Jesse wrote the groove for "The Belle of St Mark". Prince took it and didn't credit him. Then, Prince turned around and credited Jesse for "Shortberry Strawcake", which is a song Jesse had nothing to do with.

Guess which one of those songs was a single? Yup.

Then there's the whole Shockadelica thing..... you know about that one right?

Finally, there were certain promoters, agents and managers that wanted to work with Jesse, and Prince allegedly pressured those people into not representing Jesse. Not sure how public that is, but people who know Jesse know that he's spoken on this before.




I've heard the same thing. Why can't Prince fans get that he mis-treated Jesse?

Why can't Jesse Johnson be appreciated for his own music; food for thought...

"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything." --Plato
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Reply #9 posted 08/15/19 5:45pm

PennyPurple

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Jesse is still blaming Prince for all of Jesse's failures.




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Reply #10 posted 08/15/19 6:10pm

Militant

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PennyPurple said:

Jesse is still blaming Prince for all of Jesse's failures.





He really isn't, as anyone that was at Celebration 2019 can attest.





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Reply #11 posted 08/15/19 6:15pm

PennyPurple

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Militant said:

PennyPurple said:

Jesse is still blaming Prince for all of Jesse's failures.





He really isn't, as anyone that was at Celebration 2019 can attest.





You mean when he swore he wouldn't be in Prince's house paying tribute to him, .... until he found out he would be paid?

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Reply #12 posted 08/15/19 6:26pm

Militant

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eugenius said:

What's up with Shockadelica? I know there was something about Jesse tittling his LP Shockadelica, but not having a song with the same name on the track list, then Prince writing Shockadelica as a fuck you to Jesse, but there has to be something more than that, right? Something that has to do with finances?



Prince got wind of Jesse's upcoming record being titled Shockadelica, and that there was no title song.

At that time (and for the majority of his career) Prince very much felt that albums should have a strong title song, like he had for most of his albums up to that point.

So Prince said, if you don't have one I'll write one for you and wrote the song and let Jesse know. There's some differences of opinion as to whether Prince actually intended to give Jesse the song in good faith, or whether he never actually intended to do so, and it being, as you said, basically a "fuck you then". What is clear is that he rushed the song out to radio ahead of Jesse's album release, and the common feeling is that he did so to make it seem like Jesse took the title from him and not the other way around.


But peep this. Here's something Jesse told me personally that I'm not sure is common knowledge.

So Jesse's "Shockadelica" record also has "Do Yourself A Favor" on it, right?


Which is based on Pepe Willie's 94 East track, "If You See Me", that Prince played guitar on all the way back in 1975 before he even had a record deal.

So Prince cut a new version of "Do Yourself A Favor" in 1982, right. And he pretty drastically changes the structure and arrangement of the song. It's the same progression, same lyrics, same vocal melody, but he changed the music quite a bit.

But if you listen to the Jesse version from 1986, it's much much closer to Prince's 82 version than it is to the 1975 version. But Prince isn't credited at all.

So, Jesse told me that he didn't know that Prince's 1982 version was so different to the 1975 original version. He'd never heard the original 94 East track, he'd only heard Prince's 1982 version from being in the camp at that time and so he based his version on that, and as far as he knew it was still the same as Pepe's original song, so he saw no reason to credit Prince for it. And crucially, Pepe never told him any different either.

So, if Prince heard about Jesse's record it's very possible he'd heard an advance copy of it (How else would he know the tracklist, and know there was no title track?) - heard Jesse's "Do Yourself A Favor" and obviously knew it was based on HIS version, and that he hadn't been credited for it, and got pissed off, and did the Shockadelica thing as retaliation.






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Reply #13 posted 08/15/19 6:27pm

Militant

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PennyPurple said:

Militant said:


He really isn't, as anyone that was at Celebration 2019 can attest.





You mean when he swore he wouldn't be in Prince's house paying tribute to him, .... until he found out he would be paid?



Were you there? I was. Up in the VIP riser with Sharon and other siblings, actually.

If not, I'm not at all interested in your second hand versions of events.






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Reply #14 posted 08/15/19 6:39pm

PennyPurple

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Militant said:

PennyPurple said:

You mean when he swore he wouldn't be in Prince's house paying tribute to him, .... until he found out he would be paid?



Were you there? I was. Up in the VIP riser with Sharon and other siblings, actually.

If not, I'm not at all interested in your second hand versions of events.






So we have to be there to have an opinion on Jesse, since when?

Good I'm not interested in your opinion either. Just because you fell in love with Jesse doesn't mean we all have to.


Edited to add....Jesse's on tape dissing Prince and saying he would never go to the Celebration. Heard it and heard the vile in Jesse's voice when he was talking on that tape.

[Edited 8/15/19 18:48pm]

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Reply #15 posted 08/15/19 9:22pm

PeggyO

Susan Rogers had just moved to Minneapolis to work as Prince's engineer. Prince was away and she was installing equipment in Prince's home studio on Kiowa Trail. She felt that Prince would expect her to know how to do everything but she had questions. She said Jesse came over,was really sweet and helped her set it up according to what he knew Prince would want.

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Reply #16 posted 08/16/19 7:19am

joyinrepetitio
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Militant said:


Um, Jesse's issues with Prince had nothing to do with Jungle Love. Jesse was happy that Jungle Love was used.

What he wasn't happy about.... well, first off, Jesse wrote the groove for "The Belle of St Mark". Prince took it and didn't credit him. Then, Prince turned around and credited Jesse for "Shortberry Strawcake", which is a song Jesse had nothing to do with.



Guess which one of those songs was a single? Yup.

Then there's the whole Shockadelica thing..... you know about that one right?



Finally, there were certain promoters, agents and managers that wanted to work with Jesse, and Prince allegedly pressured those people into not representing Jesse. Not sure how public that is, but people who know Jesse know that he's spoken on this before.





Militant Shortberry Strawcake was up for a Grammy for best instrumental. It lost to Herbie Hancock's Rocket, but had it won Jesse would have a Grammy sitting on his mantle.
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Reply #17 posted 08/16/19 7:46am

Militant

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joyinrepetition said:

Militant said:

Um, Jesse's issues with Prince had nothing to do with Jungle Love. Jesse was happy that Jungle Love was used.

What he wasn't happy about.... well, first off, Jesse wrote the groove for "The Belle of St Mark". Prince took it and didn't credit him. Then, Prince turned around and credited Jesse for "Shortberry Strawcake", which is a song Jesse had nothing to do with.

Guess which one of those songs was a single? Yup.

Then there's the whole Shockadelica thing..... you know about that one right?

Finally, there were certain promoters, agents and managers that wanted to work with Jesse, and Prince allegedly pressured those people into not representing Jesse. Not sure how public that is, but people who know Jesse know that he's spoken on this before.




Militant Shortberry Strawcake was up for a Grammy for best instrumental. It lost to Herbie Hancock's Rocket, but had it won Jesse would have a Grammy sitting on his mantle.


That's not something you can foresee though, Prince obviously knew that he wanted "The Belle of St Mark" to be a single.


PennyPurple said:

So we have to be there to have an opinion on Jesse, since when?

Good I'm not interested in your opinion either. Just because you fell in love with Jesse doesn't mean we all have to.


Edited to add....Jesse's on tape dissing Prince and saying he would never go to the Celebration. Heard it and heard the vile in Jesse's voice when he was talking on that tape.




Yes, actually.

Because anyone who was there heard how conflicted Jesse was in his own words, saw his emotion and his inner turmoil, and understood how hard it was for him because he and Prince loved each other like brothers, and then had a very public falling out. Like MANY people did with Prince around that time, including Morris, Jam & Lewis, Andre, and many more.


Did you know that when The Time reformed for Graffiti Bridge, the first day of shooting when Jesse came to Paisley Park for the first time, Prince ran up to him, gave him a massive hug and whispered in his ear "It's about time someone else who knows how to dress showed up" lol

Again, if you weren't at Celebration, you wouldn't know any of this, which is why I asked.

You can stay having your opinion about two people that lived together and worked together and knew each other. I happen to think that those people probably know a little bit more about what their relationship was than you do.



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Reply #18 posted 08/16/19 2:47pm

PennyPurple

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No Militant we don't have to be there to have an opinion.....

Just like you weren't there when Jesse was being recorded and you still had an opinion on that...



And the story about Jesse going to PP and P giving him a hug and saying that to him, was out waayy long before this past Celebration. Nobody has to be at the Celebration to find things out.


And I'm sure they know more about their relationship, then you do too....that doesn't stop either one of us from having an opinion.

Militant said:

joyinrepetition said:

Militant said:


That's not something you can foresee though, Prince obviously knew that he wanted "The Belle of St Mark" to be a single.


PennyPurple said:

So we have to be there to have an opinion on Jesse, since when?

Good I'm not interested in your opinion either. Just because you fell in love with Jesse doesn't mean we all have to.


Edited to add....Jesse's on tape dissing Prince and saying he would never go to the Celebration. Heard it and heard the vile in Jesse's voice when he was talking on that tape.




Yes, actually.

Because anyone who was there heard how conflicted Jesse was in his own words, saw his emotion and his inner turmoil, and understood how hard it was for him because he and Prince loved each other like brothers, and then had a very public falling out. Like MANY people did with Prince around that time, including Morris, Jam & Lewis, Andre, and many more.


Did you know that when The Time reformed for Graffiti Bridge, the first day of shooting when Jesse came to Paisley Park for the first time, Prince ran up to him, gave him a massive hug and whispered in his ear "It's about time someone else who knows how to dress showed up" lol

Again, if you weren't at Celebration, you wouldn't know any of this, which is why I asked.

You can stay having your opinion about two people that lived together and worked together and knew each other. I happen to think that those people probably know a little bit more about what their relationship was than you do.



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Reply #19 posted 08/16/19 5:47pm

JoeyCococo

PennyPurple said:[quote]

No Militant we don't have to be there to have an opinion.....


Just like you weren't there when Jesse was being recorded and you still had an opinion on that...





And the story about Jesse going to PP and P giving him a hug and saying that to him, was out waayy long before this past Celebration. Nobody has to be at the Celebration to find things out.



And I'm sure they know more about their relationship, then you do too....that doesn't stop either one of us from having an opinion.





Militant said:










joyinrepetition said:


Militant said:



That's not something you can foresee though, Prince obviously knew that he wanted "The Belle of St Mark" to be a single.






PennyPurple said:



So we have to be there to have an opinion on Jesse, since when?


Good I'm not interested in your opinion either. Just because you fell in love with Jesse doesn't mean we all have to.



Edited to add....Jesse's on tape dissing Prince and saying he would never go to the Celebration. Heard it and heard the vile in Jesse's voice when he was talking on that tape.







Yes, actually.

Because anyone who was there heard how conflicted Jesse was in his own words, saw his emotion and his inner turmoil, and understood how hard it was for him because he and Prince loved each other like brothers, and then had a very public falling out. Like MANY people did with Prince around that time, including Morris, Jam & Lewis, Andre, and many more.



Did you know that when The Time reformed for Graffiti Bridge, the first day of shooting when Jesse came to Paisley Park for the first time, Prince ran up to him, gave him a massive hug and whispered in his ear "It's about time someone else who knows how to dress showed up" lol

Again, if you weren't at Celebration, you wouldn't know any of this, which is why I asked.



You can stay having your opinion about two people that lived together and worked together and knew each other. I happen to think that those people probably know a little bit more about what their relationship was than you do.






Hilarious...Penny, unless you are as Connected as Casey, just chill out and accept some of this insider info. I just love all that we are getting these days.
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Reply #20 posted 08/16/19 5:48pm

JoeyCococo

JoeyCococo said:[quote]

PennyPurple said:

No Militant we don't have to be there to have an opinion.....


Just like you weren't there when Jesse was being recorded and you still had an opinion on that...





And the story about Jesse going to PP and P giving him a hug and saying that to him, was out waayy long before this past Celebration. Nobody has to be at the Celebration to find things out.



And I'm sure they know more about their relationship, then you do too....that doesn't stop either one of us from having an opinion.





Militant said:










joyinrepetition said:


Militant said:



That's not something you can foresee though, Prince obviously knew that he wanted "The Belle of St Mark" to be a single.






PennyPurple said:



So we have to be there to have an opinion on Jesse, since when?


Good I'm not interested in your opinion either. Just because you fell in love with Jesse doesn't mean we all have to.



Edited to add....Jesse's on tape dissing Prince and saying he would never go to the Celebration. Heard it and heard the vile in Jesse's voice when he was talking on that tape.







Yes, actually.

Because anyone who was there heard how conflicted Jesse was in his own words, saw his emotion and his inner turmoil, and understood how hard it was for him because he and Prince loved each other like brothers, and then had a very public falling out. Like MANY people did with Prince around that time, including Morris, Jam & Lewis, Andre, and many more.



Did you know that when The Time reformed for Graffiti Bridge, the first day of shooting when Jesse came to Paisley Park for the first time, Prince ran up to him, gave him a massive hug and whispered in his ear "It's about time someone else who knows how to dress showed up" lol

Again, if you weren't at Celebration, you wouldn't know any of this, which is why I asked.



You can stay having your opinion about two people that lived together and worked together and knew each other. I happen to think that those people probably know a little bit more about what their relationship was than you do.






Hilarious...Penny, unless you are as Connected as Casey, just chill out and accept some of this insider info. I just love all that we are getting these days.



Also- I would pay anything to hear Prince and Jesse play together. If a recording existed off a soundboard...oh God!!
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Reply #21 posted 08/16/19 6:33pm

PennyPurple

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Hey Joey I don't care how much you or Casey think he has or hasn't connections. If Casey is so 'connected' to Prince as he claims to be, then maybe he should've thought twice before supporting Jesse and what he said on that recording......

I have my own opinion and I'm not shy about it, I don't have to be told what opinion to have in order to be 'connected'. lol


BTW, I enjoy your and Casey's Violet Reality. Keep up the good work....

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Reply #22 posted 08/18/19 12:12am

TrivialPursuit

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In an article I wrote, I noted how Jesse was always the troubled soul in The Time or around Prince. There's always one in every damn band. The troubled one stands out, shoots off on their own, leaves for whatever reason - it happens every single time, whether it's a rock band or a boy band. (read: Dawn Robinson, Timberlake, MJ, Roth, Hagar, Zayn Malik, Left Eye, Roger Waters, Phil Collins, Peter Gabriel, Steve Perry, Dennis DeYoung, it goes on.) Jesse's that guy. He's left The Time more times than he's rejoined it, it seems (and technically that may be true anyway).

I don't think anyone owes Jesse (or Graham in another thread) any allegiance just because he was friends with Prince, played in The Time, or whatever. That's not to say it's equally wrong to support Jesse's music, listen to his stories, and respect him as a person. I actually enjoy Every Shade Of Love 10x more than Shockadelica and don't care for Bare My Naked Soul or Verbal Penetration. (Now see, there are those reading this going, "he's nuts, those are his best." That's my point.)

The idea of everyone having a different view of music certainly bleeds into band members or individuals and their projects. Anyone is free to support or like who they wish. That said, there are specific details to stories that we'll never know, or that we've learned well after the fact. These stories are golden and always add to the larger narrative of Prince's history. But if we're going to be as obsessed with Prince et al. as we claim to be, it's best to deal in the truth. Sure, we get things wrong, but once you learn the truth, just roll with it. Prince fans always gotta compete about how knows more. Who cares?! We're all just enjoying the music, the legacy.

Leave Jesse alone. He's always going to bitch about Prince while simultaneously talking about how much he loved him. That's just Jesse.

This experience will cover courtship, sex, commitment, fetishes, loneliness, vindication, love, and hate.
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Reply #23 posted 08/18/19 12:14am

TrivialPursuit

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JoeyCococo said:

JoeyCococo said: Also- I would pay anything to hear Prince and Jesse play together. If a recording existed off a soundboard...oh God!!


Uh, don't forget that time Jam & Lewis missed their gig and Prince played bass. Jesse was on guitar. So that's technically playing together. And no doubt that soundboard exists somewhere. Unlikely we'll ever hear it, but it is what it is.

This experience will cover courtship, sex, commitment, fetishes, loneliness, vindication, love, and hate.
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Reply #24 posted 08/18/19 2:39pm

JoeyCococo

PennyPurple said:

Hey Joey I don't care how much you or Casey think he has or hasn't connections. If Casey is so 'connected' to Prince as he claims to be, then maybe he should've thought twice before supporting Jesse and what he said on that recording.....


I have my own opinion and I'm not shy about it, I don't have to be told what opinion to have in order to be 'connected'. lol



BTW, I enjoy your and Casey's Violet Reality. Keep up the good work....




We can all have opinions....but fewer have facts:) I pay attention to the latter mostly and I do that by considering source.

Anyway, Jesse is amazing and he definitely had legitimate gripes Prince was a genius and deserves all this adoration but man, he was human and super competitive. I don't doubt him blocking Jesse.
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Reply #25 posted 08/19/19 4:52am

PennyPurple

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Facts by Jesse or facts by Prince? Because we haven't heard the facts from Prince.

I actually feel sorry for some people who think that the are getting 'THE' facts only from 1 person in the situation and not from the other.


Their truth doesn't = 'THE' truth.

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Reply #26 posted 08/19/19 4:51pm

eugenius

Militant said:

eugenius said:

What's up with Shockadelica? I know there was something about Jesse tittling his LP Shockadelica, but not having a song with the same name on the track list, then Prince writing Shockadelica as a fuck you to Jesse, but there has to be something more than that, right? Something that has to do with finances?

What is clear is that he rushed the song out to radio ahead of Jesse's album release, and the common feeling is that he did so to make it seem like Jesse took the title from him and not the other way around.



But peep this. Here's something Jesse told me personally that I'm not sure is common knowledge.

So Jesse's "Shockadelica" record also has "Do Yourself A Favor" on it, right?


Which is based on Pepe Willie's 94 East track, "If You See Me", that Prince played guitar on all the way back in 1975 before he even had a record deal.

So Prince cut a new version of "Do Yourself A Favor" in 1982, right. And he pretty drastically changes the structure and arrangement of the song. It's the same progression, same lyrics, same vocal melody, but he changed the music quite a bit.

But if you listen to the Jesse version from 1986, it's much much closer to Prince's 82 version than it is to the 1975 version. But Prince isn't credited at all.

So, Jesse told me that he didn't know that Prince's 1982 version was so different to the 1975 original version. He'd never heard the original 94 East track, he'd only heard Prince's 1982 version from being in the camp at that time and so he based his version on that, and as far as he knew it was still the same as Pepe's original song, so he saw no reason to credit Prince for it. And crucially, Pepe never told him any different either.

So, if Prince heard about Jesse's record it's very possible he'd heard an advance copy of it (How else would he know the tracklist, and know there was no title track?) - heard Jesse's "Do Yourself A Favor" and obviously knew it was based on HIS version, and that he hadn't been credited for it, and got pissed off, and did the Shockadelica thing as retaliation.

Ah ha, thanks for this information. I never knew the timeline of these events, and I always wondered how JJ's cover of "Do Yourself a Favor" made it onto his LP if he was butting heads with P at the time -- as far as he was concerned, it was Pepe's track. As friendly as P and JJ were at a certain point, it seems like competition got the better of the friendship and Prince saw no wiggle room in sharing the spotlight amongst Minneapolis musicians.

Why is it so difficult to upload an avatar?
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Reply #27 posted 08/20/19 6:53am

ChocolateBox31
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Jesse has been slaying recently in Tokyo, Japan with ALL new arrangements of his catalog.

He is on FIRE!

"4 all of us, life is death without adventure,& adventure only comes 2 those who are willing 2 b daring & take chances."prince 1985
"eye don't think about gone just think about the future when eye don't want 2 speak n real time" prince 2004
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Reply #28 posted 08/20/19 8:33am

PeggyO

dupe

[Edited 8/20/19 10:53am]

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Reply #29 posted 08/20/19 10:52am

PeggyO

PeggyO said:

I REALLY wish we could stop demonizing certain of Prince's friends/collaborators. This includes Jesse, Andre, Morris, Kirk et al. Life/relationships are just not black and white, they are nuanced.

There wasn't just one good guy (Prince) with the rest being bad guys.

I also don't want the Org to turn into something like Beyonce's beehive where they attack

mercilessly and often in an uninformed/out-of-context manner.

Yes, Jesse was caught on tape. Have none of us had moments when we say things about our husbands, wives, friends that may be considered unflattering. Does that mean we have to move out of the house or divorce? I am certain that Jesse had some difficult times with Prince.

[Edited 8/20/19 9:13am]

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