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Reply #60 posted 06/20/19 8:32am

SoulAlive

dustoff said:

I know this isn't new news, but I had no idea she is Berry Gordy's step-niece.

and she was close to Rick James and Teena Marie.She could have easily signed with Motown in the early 80s.

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Reply #61 posted 06/20/19 1:00pm

Shockadelica9

simm0061 said:



Shockadelica9 said:


Is it just me or does jill sometimes come across like a pretentious mean girl. I mean does susannah ever mention her in interviews???

I also find it amazing that she think Susannah was rude to her...um, you were shagging her fiance!


I was a huge Jill fan but she sometimes comes across as the woman who is mean to the women that is involved in a affair but never blames the man. When she was interviewed by michael dean and she told that story were she purposefully hit the car door on Ola rays leg ( thriller chick) because she was dating p at the time
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Reply #62 posted 06/20/19 9:36pm

dreamer5

Jill and Jesse are so refreshing. Finally some people who tell the truth without hesitation. I can only imagine how frustrating it must be for her to watch people re-write history selling their t-shirts, promoting the b.s. etc., etc. Really hope she decides to write a book.

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Reply #63 posted 06/21/19 8:40am

Genesia

avatar

simm0061 said:

Shockadelica9 said:

Is it just me or does jill sometimes come across like a pretentious mean girl. I mean does susannah ever mention her in interviews???

I also find it amazing that she think Susannah was rude to her...um, you were shagging her fiance!


Jill was there first.

We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves.
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Reply #64 posted 06/21/19 7:29pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

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Genesia said:

simm0061 said:

I also find it amazing that she think Susannah was rude to her...um, you were shagging her fiance!


Jill was there first.

LOL


Isn't it funny how she said She and Vanity were 'the originals' TOTALLY disregarding Susan Moonsie(Private Joy) who was there before both of them?

Jill was there before Vanity, Vanity was the main squeeze though, Vanity was not happy with it, now matter how much Jill says 'they all agreed and worked together and that it was like 'hippie love''

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
https://prince.org/msg/7/464433 9.24.2020
if you ever try the lotus position
Try it while you're being strangled
Do U understand what I'm saying?
#IDEFINEME
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work...
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Reply #65 posted 06/21/19 7:33pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

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dreamer5 said:

Jill and Jesse are so refreshing. Finally some people who tell the truth without hesitation. I can only imagine how frustrating it must be for her to watch people re-write history selling their t-shirts, promoting the b.s. etc., etc. Really hope she decides to write a book.

where have you been, this isn't knew stuff, but it is old. And Jill sells her Tshirts mugs and mp3 too

Make sure you $upport...

Jesse? Even Jill backed away after reading/hearing his rant.

https://teespring.com/shop/jill-jones-i-miss-u-black?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=google_shopping&aid=ts-boosted-pla&gclid=EAIaIQobChMImvSmlYb84gIVRCaGCh1LxQBsEAQYAiABEgIjCvD_BwE#pid=369&cid=6513&sid=front

Jill Jones ''i Miss U'' Black T Shirt  Black T-Shirt Front

Jill Jones

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
https://prince.org/msg/7/464433 9.24.2020
if you ever try the lotus position
Try it while you're being strangled
Do U understand what I'm saying?
#IDEFINEME
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work...
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Reply #66 posted 06/21/19 7:35pm

Shockadelica9

OldFriends4Sale said:



Genesia said:




simm0061 said:



I also find it amazing that she think Susannah was rude to her...um, you were shagging her fiance!




Jill was there first.




LOL


Isn't it funny how she said She and Vanity were 'the originals' TOTALLY disregarding Susan Moonsie(Private Joy) who was there before both of them?



Jill was there before Vanity, Vanity was the main squeeze though, Vanity was not happy with it, now matter how much Jill says 'they all agreed and worked together and that it was like 'hippie love''




Yup susan moonsie and Kim Upsher were the originals
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Reply #67 posted 06/22/19 9:33am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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Shockadelica9 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

LOL


Isn't it funny how she said She and Vanity were 'the originals' TOTALLY disregarding Susan Moonsie(Private Joy) who was there before both of them?

Jill was there before Vanity, Vanity was the main squeeze though, Vanity was not happy with it, no matter how much Jill says 'they all agreed and worked together and that it was like 'hippie love''

Yup susan moonsie and Kim Upsher were the originals

Yes, and in keeping with the spirit of lifting up women, what does 'the originals' even mean?

It is sorta sad that Jill defined herself based on being a woman who slept with Prince(in his camp) if that is what 'originals' even refers to. And Vanity always had her career first over Prince or any man. I don't know if she would refer to herself as an 'original' I doubt even Susan or Kim would label themselves 'the originals'. I mean I doubt any of them were Prince's 'first'.

When you look at the timeline Jill - Vanity -Susannah all came into Prince's camp within a very short time of each other.

Vanity wasn't having it with Prince, she definately was not happy 'sharing' Prince. And on her song Samuelle that is clearly a point toward Jill and Prince

Samuelle
This is your lover calling
Samuelle, do you belong to Marilyn?
How did I know?
She could never love your heart like me

I happened to be at a jazz show last night and one of the singers was a female composer, and just for a bit talked about where women are in the time period. So 'the originals' just popped into my head last night at the show.

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
https://prince.org/msg/7/464433 9.24.2020
if you ever try the lotus position
Try it while you're being strangled
Do U understand what I'm saying?
#IDEFINEME
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work...
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Reply #68 posted 06/22/19 7:34pm

funksterr

.

[Edited 6/22/19 19:44pm]

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Reply #69 posted 06/25/19 10:20am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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Sometimes the singers didn't always appreciate being considered Prince's muses. Jones remembers being taken aback by "Baby, You're a Trip." The version on Originals is a smooth R&B number that's a bit more stripped-back than Jones' version; when she recorded it, though, she matched his melodies right down to the closing cadenza. She used to tease him by calling him "Mr. Svengali" because of the way he would create personae for the singers he wrote for. "I always used to kid him about that, like, 'Don't Svengali me today,'" she says. "When I heard the song I said, 'Oh, my God. This is how either he sees me or how he wants to see me.'"

The stanza that shocked her most goes, "I know what people think/They think I'm a starstruck little fool/Baby, you could be flat broke/I'd still be crazy for you." "I know he had at one point borrowed some of my journals and snooped through things in my house and had little bits of information, but I didn't know he would make me the 'starstruck little fool.' Those lyrics were a lot. But he did take a lot about my persona into account, and I thought that was kind of sweet, but a little hard to look at." She remembers telling him, "That ego of yours is too much," but went ahead and sung it anyway.

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
https://prince.org/msg/7/464433 9.24.2020
if you ever try the lotus position
Try it while you're being strangled
Do U understand what I'm saying?
#IDEFINEME
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work...
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Reply #70 posted 06/27/19 3:18pm

violetcrush

OldFriends4Sale said:

Shockadelica9 said:

OldFriends4Sale said: Yup susan moonsie and Kim Upsher were the originals

Yes, and in keeping with the spirit of lifting up women, what does 'the originals' even mean?

It is sorta sad that Jill defined herself based on being a woman who slept with Prince(in his camp) if that is what 'originals' even refers to. And Vanity always had her career first over Prince or any man. I don't know if she would refer to herself as an 'original' I doubt even Susan or Kim would label themselves 'the originals'. I mean I doubt any of them were Prince's 'first'.

When you look at the timeline Jill - Vanity -Susannah all came into Prince's camp within a very short time of each other.

Vanity wasn't having it with Prince, she definately was not happy 'sharing' Prince. And on her song Samuelle that is clearly a point toward Jill and Prince

Samuelle
This is your lover calling
Samuelle, do you belong to Marilyn?
How did I know?
She could never love your heart like me

I happened to be at a jazz show last night and one of the singers was a female composer, and just for a bit talked about where women are in the time period. So 'the originals' just popped into my head last night at the show.

Jill also stated - during her interview with Prince Podcast after Prince passed - that the "plantation mistresses" (referring to Wendy and Susannah) came in and changed the whole dynamic in the camp in a negative way. I actually could not believe she made that comment. Even Michael Dean seemed taken aback by her comment.

*

If you listen to her interviews, like the one with Prince Podcast, she's all over the place with her explanations for things that happened during her time in the camp. No doubt she loved Prince, and did anything he asked of her, but I hear so much bitterness in her discussions. I would imagine that the unrequited love - especially when it was consciously rejected by Prince - must leave a long lasting negative affect on her. Her comments about Susannah - both blatant and cryptic, scream of jealousy and hate, which just amplifies the notion that she was the "side girl" who took a back seat to his stronger feelings for someone else.

*

I agree about the strangeness of her "the originals" comment. Susan, Brenda, and Vanity were the "originals" in terms of his first female proteges. Jill arrived after them and was just a backup singer at that time. In terms of being an "original" girlfriend (which really makes no sense) Kim Upsher would take the lead there as he met her while still in high school.

*

I don't doubt that Prince had a temper though. It's been stated many times by various people who were in his camp. I'm sure in his early 20's he had not yet learned how to control it, however, I don't think he seriously abused any of the women. Could some of the verbal fights have escalated into throwing a shoe or grabbing an arm? Probably, but he was not a physical abuser.

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Reply #71 posted 06/28/19 11:28am

Shockadelica9

violetcrush said:



OldFriends4Sale said:




Shockadelica9 said:


OldFriends4Sale said: Yup susan moonsie and Kim Upsher were the originals



Yes, and in keeping with the spirit of lifting up women, what does 'the originals' even mean?

It is sorta sad that Jill defined herself based on being a woman who slept with Prince(in his camp) if that is what 'originals' even refers to. And Vanity always had her career first over Prince or any man. I don't know if she would refer to herself as an 'original' I doubt even Susan or Kim would label themselves 'the originals'. I mean I doubt any of them were Prince's 'first'.



When you look at the timeline Jill - Vanity -Susannah all came into Prince's camp within a very short time of each other.



Vanity wasn't having it with Prince, she definately was not happy 'sharing' Prince. And on her song Samuelle that is clearly a point toward Jill and Prince


Samuelle
This is your lover calling
Samuelle, do you belong to Marilyn?

How did I know?
She could never love your heart like me


I happened to be at a jazz show last night and one of the singers was a female composer, and just for a bit talked about where women are in the time period. So 'the originals' just popped into my head last night at the show.





Jill also stated - during her interview with Prince Podcast after Prince passed - that the "plantation mistresses" (referring to Wendy and Susannah) came in and changed the whole dynamic in the camp in a negative way. I actually could not believe she made that comment. Even Michael Dean seemed taken aback by her comment.


*


If you listen to her interviews, like the one with Prince Podcast, she's all over the place with her explanations for things that happened during her time in the camp. No doubt she loved Prince, and did anything he asked of her, but I hear so much bitterness in her discussions. I would imagine that the unrequited love - especially when it was consciously rejected by Prince - must leave a long lasting negative affect on her. Her comments about Susannah - both blatant and cryptic, scream of jealousy and hate, which just amplifies the notion that she was the "side girl" who took a back seat to his stronger feelings for someone else.


*


I agree about the strangeness of her "the originals" comment. Susan, Brenda, and Vanity were the "originals" in terms of his first female proteges. Jill arrived after them and was just a backup singer at that time. In terms of being an "original" girlfriend (which really makes no sense) Kim Upsher would take the lead there as he met her while still in high school.


*


I don't doubt that Prince had a temper though. It's been stated many times by various people who were in his camp. I'm sure in his early 20's he had not yet learned how to control it, however, I don't think he seriously abused any of the women. Could some of the verbal fights have escalated into throwing a shoe or grabbing an arm? Probably, but he was not a physical abuser.



Sometimes Jill comes off as a pretentious person, i mean what was the point of throwing shade at Sheena Easton???
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Reply #72 posted 06/28/19 12:47pm

violetcrush

Shockadelica9 said:

violetcrush said:



OldFriends4Sale said:




Shockadelica9 said:


OldFriends4Sale said: Yup susan moonsie and Kim Upsher were the originals



Yes, and in keeping with the spirit of lifting up women, what does 'the originals' even mean?

It is sorta sad that Jill defined herself based on being a woman who slept with Prince(in his camp) if that is what 'originals' even refers to. And Vanity always had her career first over Prince or any man. I don't know if she would refer to herself as an 'original' I doubt even Susan or Kim would label themselves 'the originals'. I mean I doubt any of them were Prince's 'first'.



When you look at the timeline Jill - Vanity -Susannah all came into Prince's camp within a very short time of each other.



Vanity wasn't having it with Prince, she definately was not happy 'sharing' Prince. And on her song Samuelle that is clearly a point toward Jill and Prince


Samuelle
This is your lover calling
Samuelle, do you belong to Marilyn?

How did I know?
She could never love your heart like me


I happened to be at a jazz show last night and one of the singers was a female composer, and just for a bit talked about where women are in the time period. So 'the originals' just popped into my head last night at the show.





Jill also stated - during her interview with Prince Podcast after Prince passed - that the "plantation mistresses" (referring to Wendy and Susannah) came in and changed the whole dynamic in the camp in a negative way. I actually could not believe she made that comment. Even Michael Dean seemed taken aback by her comment.


*


If you listen to her interviews, like the one with Prince Podcast, she's all over the place with her explanations for things that happened during her time in the camp. No doubt she loved Prince, and did anything he asked of her, but I hear so much bitterness in her discussions. I would imagine that the unrequited love - especially when it was consciously rejected by Prince - must leave a long lasting negative affect on her. Her comments about Susannah - both blatant and cryptic, scream of jealousy and hate, which just amplifies the notion that she was the "side girl" who took a back seat to his stronger feelings for someone else.


*


I agree about the strangeness of her "the originals" comment. Susan, Brenda, and Vanity were the "originals" in terms of his first female proteges. Jill arrived after them and was just a backup singer at that time. In terms of being an "original" girlfriend (which really makes no sense) Kim Upsher would take the lead there as he met her while still in high school.


*


I don't doubt that Prince had a temper though. It's been stated many times by various people who were in his camp. I'm sure in his early 20's he had not yet learned how to control it, however, I don't think he seriously abused any of the women. Could some of the verbal fights have escalated into throwing a shoe or grabbing an arm? Probably, but he was not a physical abuser.



Sometimes Jill comes off as a pretentious person, i mean what was the point of throwing shade at Sheena Easton???

Yes, I agree. Sheena has stated multiple times that she and Prince were never intimate - it was a platonic collaboration. They sang together and also swapped songs. He gave her 101 and she wrote The Arms of Orion.
*
I also cannot believe her audacity in discussing Prince’s relationship with Wendy and Lisa - both the financial end and her claim for the reason Prince broke up the band. Sorry, but I seriously doubt he was confiding in her about those relationships. She was not around during that period. She was living in NY. Prince made his own choices, especially with his music. He collaborated with Wendy and Lisa, their brothers, and had Susannah there too because he respected their talent and wanted their contributions to his music.
*
I think Jill needs to listen to SISIA, Mountains, Power Fantastic...and also W & L records after Prince to refresh her memory on their talent as musicians. Oh, and we should throw In This Bed I Scream in there too cool
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Reply #73 posted 06/28/19 1:22pm

violetcrush

Another annoying aspect of her discussion - she says she sang on Blue Limousine? Brenda Bennett confirmed during one of her interviews that she and Susannah had lots of fun recording that song together in the studio. You can clearly hear Susannah’s vocals. Did Prince have Jill sing it and put her vocal underneath? Possibly, because he did that many times with many songs. She seems to be implying that Prince preferred her voice over Susannah’s and he needed her to complete the song. Totally ridiculous. Her comment about not wanting to sing on Good Love because she thought it sounded like Scritti Politti is also a dumb thing to say. She was a back up singer, so she should sing it the way Prince, or any artist, prefers it to be sung. I think the song sounds great with Prince and Susannah. It’s a fun, lighthearted track - even Prince sang it that way. Heck, Lisa stated that Prince asked her and Wendy to sing like Bette Davis on All My Dreams, and it sounds great with the music.
*
Whether intentional or not - her comments imply that she feels superior to Susannah as a vocalist, and also undermine Wendy and Lisa’s importance to Prince’s music. I actually think she’s just “meh” as a singer - just my opinion but I was never impressed. I don’t think Prince was either, otherwise her album would not have been delayed in order to move other projects forward.
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Reply #74 posted 06/28/19 1:54pm

Shockadelica9

violetcrush said:

Another annoying aspect of her discussion - she says she sang on Blue Limousine? Brenda Bennett confirmed during one of her interviews that she and Susannah had lots of fun recording that song together in the studio. You can clearly hear Susannah’s vocals. Did Prince have Jill sing it and put her vocal underneath? Possibly, because he did that many times with many songs. She seems to be implying that Prince preferred her voice over Susannah’s and he needed her to complete the song. Totally ridiculous. Her comment about not wanting to sing on Good Love because she thought it sounded like Scritti Politti is also a dumb thing to say. She was a back up singer, so she should sing it the way Prince, or any artist, prefers it to be sung. I think the song sounds great with Prince and Susannah. It’s a fun, lighthearted track - even Prince sang it that way. Heck, Lisa stated that Prince asked her and Wendy to sing like Bette Davis on All My Dreams, and it sounds great with the music.
*
Whether intentional or not - her comments imply that she feels superior to Susannah as a vocalist, and also undermine Wendy and Lisa’s importance to Prince’s music. I actually think she’s just “meh” as a singer - just my opinion but I was never impressed. I don’t think Prince was either, otherwise her album would not have been delayed in order to move other projects forward.

Jill said that susannah was mean to her but to me jill comes across like the jealous mean girl type, when she was interviewed by Mike dean and she told the story about purposefully hitting Ola Rays leg because she was dating Prince at the time...rude
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Reply #75 posted 06/28/19 2:20pm

Mumio

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Is there some reason why this album "The Originals", which seems to refer to the original recordings by Prince of songs he gave to others, turned into being about the women who were there way back when? I've never been under the impression that it really had anything to do with them unless they were actually singing on these with him.

Welcome to "the org", Mumio…they can have you, but I'll have your love in the end nod
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Reply #76 posted 06/28/19 6:47pm

violetcrush

Mumio said:

Is there some reason why this album "The Originals", which seems to refer to the original recordings by Prince of songs he gave to others, turned into being about the women who were there way back when? I've never been under the impression that it really had anything to do with them unless they were actually singing on these with him.


I believe that Jill Jones had posted a picture of her with Brenda and Vanity with the caption of “the originals” - I could be wrong, but I thought that was the
case. May have been during the time of marketing and promotion for the record.
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Reply #77 posted 06/28/19 7:02pm

violetcrush

Shockadelica9 said:

violetcrush said:

Another annoying aspect of her discussion - she says she sang on Blue Limousine? Brenda Bennett confirmed during one of her interviews that she and Susannah had lots of fun recording that song together in the studio. You can clearly hear Susannah’s vocals. Did Prince have Jill sing it and put her vocal underneath? Possibly, because he did that many times with many songs. She seems to be implying that Prince preferred her voice over Susannah’s and he needed her to complete the song. Totally ridiculous. Her comment about not wanting to sing on Good Love because she thought it sounded like Scritti Politti is also a dumb thing to say. She was a back up singer, so she should sing it the way Prince, or any artist, prefers it to be sung. I think the song sounds great with Prince and Susannah. It’s a fun, lighthearted track - even Prince sang it that way. Heck, Lisa stated that Prince asked her and Wendy to sing like Bette Davis on All My Dreams, and it sounds great with the music.
*
Whether intentional or not - her comments imply that she feels superior to Susannah as a vocalist, and also undermine Wendy and Lisa’s importance to Prince’s music. I actually think she’s just “meh” as a singer - just my opinion but I was never impressed. I don’t think Prince was either, otherwise her album would not have been delayed in order to move other projects forward.

Jill said that susannah was mean to her but to me jill comes across like the jealous mean girl type, when she was interviewed by Mike dean and she told the story about purposefully hitting Ola Rays leg because she was dating Prince at the time...rude

Right. I’m sure there was tension on both sides, but I get the feeling that Jill was moved to NY in order for Prince to keep things peaceful with Susannah. I could be wrong, but that would make sense. She also stated - on Prince Podcast - that Prince told her he had to get engaged for business reasons. Really??? That makes no sense at all.
*
Susannah, in her first interview with Toure, when talking about Prince first pursuing her in early ‘83, she stated, “there was a woman he was seeing at the time...it caused some ruckus. I’m sure she probably still hates me to this day.” Then as if talking to the woman she said, “if you’re listening, not only did I not know who you were, I wouldn’t have had any idea.”
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Reply #78 posted 06/29/19 11:44am

leadline

avatar

I hope Jill does an interview for The Violet Underground Uncovering Prince series. I have only watched the Anna Fantastic, Ingrid Chavez and Elisa Fiorillo one so far, but they are an incredible look into the world of Prince.

"You always get the dream that you deserve, from what you value the most" -Prince 2013
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Reply #79 posted 06/29/19 9:21pm

ISaidLifeIsJus
tAGame

avatar

leadline said:

I hope Jill does an interview for The Violet Underground Uncovering Prince series. I have only watched the Anna Fantastic, Ingrid Chavez and Elisa Fiorillo one so far, but they are an incredible look into the world of Prince.



Only if they get the seating and microphone together at long last.

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Reply #80 posted 06/30/19 8:32am

Krystalkisses

avatar

OldFriends4Sale said:

Shockadelica9 said:

OldFriends4Sale said: Yup susan moonsie and Kim Upsher were the originals

Yes, and in keeping with the spirit of lifting up women, what does 'the originals' even mean?

It is sorta sad that Jill defined herself based on being a woman who slept with Prince(in his camp) if that is what 'originals' even refers to. And Vanity always had her career first over Prince or any man. I don't know if she would refer to herself as an 'original' I doubt even Susan or Kim would label themselves 'the originals'. I mean I doubt any of them were Prince's 'first'.

When you look at the timeline Jill - Vanity -Susannah all came into Prince's camp within a very short time of each other.

Vanity wasn't having it with Prince, she definately was not happy 'sharing' Prince. And on her song Samuelle that is clearly a point toward Jill and Prince

Samuelle
This is your lover calling
Samuelle, do you belong to Marilyn?
How did I know?
She could never love your heart like me

I happened to be at a jazz show last night and one of the singers was a female composer, and just for a bit talked about where women are in the time period. So 'the originals' just popped into my head last night at the show.

I actually never thought that "Marilyn" wasn't a meant to imply Jill Jones, the person, I actually thought it was meant to reference Marilyn Monroe...I remember reading back in the day Prince idolized her and had a big crush on her...she was the epitome of the Glamour Girl that Prince based many of his Protegees on...I felt like in "Samuelle" Vanity was saying in a round about way that she can't compete with this "ideal" and she she doesn't want to have to live up to this woman.."She could never love your heart like me" telling him...I can love you for real because I am a real person...Marilyn is a fantasy woman, an ideal...not real.

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Reply #81 posted 06/30/19 3:37pm

violetcrush

Krystalkisses said:



OldFriends4Sale said:




Shockadelica9 said:


OldFriends4Sale said: Yup susan moonsie and Kim Upsher were the originals



Yes, and in keeping with the spirit of lifting up women, what does 'the originals' even mean?

It is sorta sad that Jill defined herself based on being a woman who slept with Prince(in his camp) if that is what 'originals' even refers to. And Vanity always had her career first over Prince or any man. I don't know if she would refer to herself as an 'original' I doubt even Susan or Kim would label themselves 'the originals'. I mean I doubt any of them were Prince's 'first'.



When you look at the timeline Jill - Vanity -Susannah all came into Prince's camp within a very short time of each other.



Vanity wasn't having it with Prince, she definately was not happy 'sharing' Prince. And on her song Samuelle that is clearly a point toward Jill and Prince


Samuelle
This is your lover calling
Samuelle, do you belong to Marilyn?

How did I know?
She could never love your heart like me


I happened to be at a jazz show last night and one of the singers was a female composer, and just for a bit talked about where women are in the time period. So 'the originals' just popped into my head last night at the show.






I actually never thought that "Marilyn" wasn't a meant to imply Jill Jones, the person, I actually thought it was meant to reference Marilyn Monroe...I remember reading back in the day Prince idolized her and had a big crush on her...she was the epitome of the Glamour Girl that Prince based many of his Protegees on...I felt like in "Samuelle" Vanity was saying in a round about way that she can't compete with this "ideal" and she she doesn't want to have to live up to this woman.."She could never love your heart like me" telling him...I can love you for real because I am a real person...Marilyn is a fantasy woman, an ideal...not real.


That is an interesting idea, but I think Prince had “crushes” on many of the old Hollywood actresses and pinup girls. He regularly watched the 40’s and 50’s films, which most likely inspired the look of The Family and UTCM. Susannah looked like a young Lauren Bacall or Katharine Hepburn. She colored her hair red during that time.
*
Prince had Jill imitating the Marilyn Monroe look by bleaching and cutting her hair short - sane style as MM. She had that look for both the 1999 tour and Purple Rain film. I do think the “Marilyn” in Samuelle was referring to Jill and the “love triangle” that happened while Vanity was there. A few songs on that album were about Prince and that situation.
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Reply #82 posted 06/30/19 5:07pm

Shockadelica9

violetcrush said:

Krystalkisses said:



OldFriends4Sale said:




Shockadelica9 said:


OldFriends4Sale said: Yup susan moonsie and Kim Upsher were the originals



Yes, and in keeping with the spirit of lifting up women, what does 'the originals' even mean?

It is sorta sad that Jill defined herself based on being a woman who slept with Prince(in his camp) if that is what 'originals' even refers to. And Vanity always had her career first over Prince or any man. I don't know if she would refer to herself as an 'original' I doubt even Susan or Kim would label themselves 'the originals'. I mean I doubt any of them were Prince's 'first'.



When you look at the timeline Jill - Vanity -Susannah all came into Prince's camp within a very short time of each other.



Vanity wasn't having it with Prince, she definately was not happy 'sharing' Prince. And on her song Samuelle that is clearly a point toward Jill and Prince


Samuelle
This is your lover calling
Samuelle, do you belong to Marilyn?

How did I know?
She could never love your heart like me


I happened to be at a jazz show last night and one of the singers was a female composer, and just for a bit talked about where women are in the time period. So 'the originals' just popped into my head last night at the show.






I actually never thought that "Marilyn" wasn't a meant to imply Jill Jones, the person, I actually thought it was meant to reference Marilyn Monroe...I remember reading back in the day Prince idolized her and had a big crush on her...she was the epitome of the Glamour Girl that Prince based many of his Protegees on...I felt like in "Samuelle" Vanity was saying in a round about way that she can't compete with this "ideal" and she she doesn't want to have to live up to this woman.."She could never love your heart like me" telling him...I can love you for real because I am a real person...Marilyn is a fantasy woman, an ideal...not real.


That is an interesting idea, but I think Prince had “crushes” on many of the old Hollywood actresses and pinup girls. He regularly watched the 40’s and 50’s films, which most likely inspired the look of The Family and UTCM. Susannah looked like a young Lauren Bacall or Katharine Hepburn. She colored her hair red during that time.
*
Prince had Jill imitating the Marilyn Monroe look by bleaching and cutting her hair short - sane style as MM. She had that look for both the 1999 tour and Purple Rain film. I do think the “Marilyn” in Samuelle was referring to Jill and the “love triangle” that happened while Vanity was there. A few songs on that album were about Prince and that situation.

Jill insinuated that they had many
3way 3way 3way in this interview so i think Vanity wasn't that mad or upset with jill lol
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Reply #83 posted 06/30/19 6:40pm

Mikado

Shockadelica9 said:

violetcrush said:
That is an interesting idea, but I think Prince had “crushes” on many of the old Hollywood actresses and pinup girls. He regularly watched the 40’s and 50’s films, which most likely inspired the look of The Family and UTCM. Susannah looked like a young Lauren Bacall or Katharine Hepburn. She colored her hair red during that time. * Prince had Jill imitating the Marilyn Monroe look by bleaching and cutting her hair short - sane style as MM. She had that look for both the 1999 tour and Purple Rain film. I do think the “Marilyn” in Samuelle was referring to Jill and the “love triangle” that happened while Vanity was there. A few songs on that album were about Prince and that situation.
Jill insinuated that they had many 3way 3way 3way in this interview so i think Vanity wasn't that mad or upset with jill lol


That can make things even worse tbh. I don't think it was some sort of polyamorous ideal of a relationship at that time. razz

A certain kind of mellow.
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Reply #84 posted 07/01/19 3:37am

violetcrush

Mikado said:



Shockadelica9 said:


violetcrush said:
That is an interesting idea, but I think Prince had “crushes” on many of the old Hollywood actresses and pinup girls. He regularly watched the 40’s and 50’s films, which most likely inspired the look of The Family and UTCM. Susannah looked like a young Lauren Bacall or Katharine Hepburn. She colored her hair red during that time. * Prince had Jill imitating the Marilyn Monroe look by bleaching and cutting her hair short - sane style as MM. She had that look for both the 1999 tour and Purple Rain film. I do think the “Marilyn” in Samuelle was referring to Jill and the “love triangle” that happened while Vanity was there. A few songs on that album were about Prince and that situation.

Jill insinuated that they had many 3way 3way 3way in this interview so i think Vanity wasn't that mad or upset with jill lol


That can make things even worse tbh. I don't think it was some sort of polyamorous ideal of a relationship at that time. razz


Yes, Jill can sugarcoat that situation all she wants, but it seems that she was the only one who accepted it. I read that, during the 1999 tour, Vanity would be livid when she knew Prince was with Susan or Jill. Vanity began dating other men to make Prince jealous. They would have huge fights. Alan Leeds stated that when he arrived in the camp at the end of the 1999 tour he knew that relationship was over. I think Vanity had had enough by that point. Based on Susannah’s interview she most likely knew Prince was pursuing her too.
*
I don’t think Prince was ever with just one woman for too long. I think he tried to be monogamous, but just could not do it.
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Reply #85 posted 07/01/19 6:42am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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Krystalkisses said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Yes, and in keeping with the spirit of lifting up women, what does 'the originals' even mean?

It is sorta sad that Jill defined herself based on being a woman who slept with Prince(in his camp) if that is what 'originals' even refers to. And Vanity always had her career first over Prince or any man. I don't know if she would refer to herself as an 'original' I doubt even Susan or Kim would label themselves 'the originals'. I mean I doubt any of them were Prince's 'first'.

When you look at the timeline Jill - Vanity -Susannah all came into Prince's camp within a very short time of each other.

Vanity wasn't having it with Prince, she definately was not happy 'sharing' Prince. And on her song Samuelle that is clearly a point toward Jill and Prince

Samuelle
This is your lover calling
Samuelle, do you belong to Marilyn?
How did I know?
She could never love your heart like me

I happened to be at a jazz show last night and one of the singers was a female composer, and just for a bit talked about where women are in the time period. So 'the originals' just popped into my head last night at the show.

I actually never thought that "Marilyn" wasn't a meant to imply Jill Jones, the person, I actually thought it was meant to reference Marilyn Monroe...I remember reading back in the day Prince idolized her and had a big crush on her...she was the epitome of the Glamour Girl that Prince based many of his Protegees on...I felt like in "Samuelle" Vanity was saying in a round about way that she can't compete with this "ideal" and she she doesn't want to have to live up to this woman.."She could never love your heart like me" telling him...I can love you for real because I am a real person...Marilyn is a fantasy woman, an ideal...not real.

Yeah, even Vanity talked about how Prince changed Jill's look to express Marilyn.
He was into the 1940s starletts and actors.

Jill "character" was supposed to start expressing the M Monroe vibe.

He initially wanted to change her name to Electra

.

And I agree, it's still a fantasy, but expressed via a woman. A lot of Prince's themes songs and music directions were based on that stuff.

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
https://prince.org/msg/7/464433 9.24.2020
if you ever try the lotus position
Try it while you're being strangled
Do U understand what I'm saying?
#IDEFINEME
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work...
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Reply #86 posted 07/01/19 6:47am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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Mumio said:

Is there some reason why this album "The Originals", which seems to refer to the original recordings by Prince of songs he gave to others, turned into being about the women who were there way back when? I've never been under the impression that it really had anything to do with them unless they were actually singing on these with him.

I don't see any reason.

.

But it is connected to people who covered the songs or protege's they were meant for.

I wish Morris Day, Kenny Rogers Tony Christian(Mazarati) Brenda & Susan Moonsie were on this too

Instead setting it up to seem to be a 'romantic' thing. Prince wasn't that way with Apollonia, nor Taj Sevellle.

.

I mean if they interviewed Morris Day/the Time, I doubt they would call themselves 'the originals'

I don't know why Jill is the only person that continues to bring in the sexual nature of things into this. She did it on the Piano & Microphone 1983 release too.

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
https://prince.org/msg/7/464433 9.24.2020
if you ever try the lotus position
Try it while you're being strangled
Do U understand what I'm saying?
#IDEFINEME
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work...
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Reply #87 posted 07/01/19 6:52am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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Shockadelica9 said:

violetcrush said:

Jill also stated - during her interview with Prince Podcast after Prince passed - that the "plantation mistresses" (referring to Wendy and Susannah) came in and changed the whole dynamic in the camp in a negative way. I actually could not believe she made that comment. Even Michael Dean seemed taken aback by her comment.

*

If you listen to her interviews, like the one with Prince Podcast, she's all over the place with her explanations for things that happened during her time in the camp. No doubt she loved Prince, and did anything he asked of her, but I hear so much bitterness in her discussions. I would imagine that the unrequited love - especially when it was consciously rejected by Prince - must leave a long lasting negative affect on her. Her comments about Susannah - both blatant and cryptic, scream of jealousy and hate, which just amplifies the notion that she was the "side girl" who took a back seat to his stronger feelings for someone else.

*

I agree about the strangeness of her "the originals" comment. Susan, Brenda, and Vanity were the "originals" in terms of his first female proteges. Jill arrived after them and was just a backup singer at that time. In terms of being an "original" girlfriend (which really makes no sense) Kim Upsher would take the lead there as he met her while still in high school.

*

I don't doubt that Prince had a temper though. It's been stated many times by various people who were in his camp. I'm sure in his early 20's he had not yet learned how to control it, however, I don't think he seriously abused any of the women. Could some of the verbal fights have escalated into throwing a shoe or grabbing an arm? Probably, but he was not a physical abuser.

Sometimes Jill comes off as a pretentious person, i mean what was the point of throwing shade at Sheena Easton???

Yeah, I mean Sugar Walls with Sheana was a huge hit, one reason it had that 1970s 'Love To Love You...' lady of the night feel, that could still be very 'innocent' without being pornographic.

Of course I would have loved an ep by Jill Jones. Would have loved if the song stayed in the purple camp, just like Manic Monday.

#ALBUMSSTILLMATTER
https://prince.org/msg/7/464433 9.24.2020
if you ever try the lotus position
Try it while you're being strangled
Do U understand what I'm saying?
#IDEFINEME
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work...
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Reply #88 posted 07/01/19 8:43am

violetcrush

OldFriends4Sale said:



Shockadelica9 said:


violetcrush said:



Jill also stated - during her interview with Prince Podcast after Prince passed - that the "plantation mistresses" (referring to Wendy and Susannah) came in and changed the whole dynamic in the camp in a negative way. I actually could not believe she made that comment. Even Michael Dean seemed taken aback by her comment.


*


If you listen to her interviews, like the one with Prince Podcast, she's all over the place with her explanations for things that happened during her time in the camp. No doubt she loved Prince, and did anything he asked of her, but I hear so much bitterness in her discussions. I would imagine that the unrequited love - especially when it was consciously rejected by Prince - must leave a long lasting negative affect on her. Her comments about Susannah - both blatant and cryptic, scream of jealousy and hate, which just amplifies the notion that she was the "side girl" who took a back seat to his stronger feelings for someone else.


*


I agree about the strangeness of her "the originals" comment. Susan, Brenda, and Vanity were the "originals" in terms of his first female proteges. Jill arrived after them and was just a backup singer at that time. In terms of being an "original" girlfriend (which really makes no sense) Kim Upsher would take the lead there as he met her while still in high school.


*


I don't doubt that Prince had a temper though. It's been stated many times by various people who were in his camp. I'm sure in his early 20's he had not yet learned how to control it, however, I don't think he seriously abused any of the women. Could some of the verbal fights have escalated into throwing a shoe or grabbing an arm? Probably, but he was not a physical abuser.




Sometimes Jill comes off as a pretentious person, i mean what was the point of throwing shade at Sheena Easton???


Yeah, I mean Sugar Walls with Sheana was a huge hit, one reason it had that 1970s 'Love To Love You...' lady of the night feel, that could still be very 'innocent' without being pornographic.



Of course I would have loved an ep by Jill Jones. Would have loved if the song stayed in the purple camp, just like Manic Monday.




I actually love that Prince gave some songs away. He had that instinct and vision to know that certain singers/ musicians could take the song further. The Bangles took Manic Monday to another level and crossed it over to the alt pop listeners too. Sheena changed her image (good girl gets kinky) with Sugar Walls, which was very intriguing and brought lots of attention. Both Sheena and The Bangles had already made names for themselves too. Chaka’s version of I Feel For You was SO good too.
*
Side note: Wendy and Lisa just posted that they sang on both versions of Neon Telephone - first when they were with Prince and then with Three O’Clock after they left Prince. Very cool!!
*
I do like the Prince versions better on most of the songs he gave away though - 101, Come Home, 5 Women...his are better.
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Reply #89 posted 07/01/19 10:41am

Mumio

avatar

OldFriends4Sale said:

Mumio said:

Is there some reason why this album "The Originals", which seems to refer to the original recordings by Prince of songs he gave to others, turned into being about the women who were there way back when? I've never been under the impression that it really had anything to do with them unless they were actually singing on these with him.

I don't see any reason.

.

But it is connected to people who covered the songs or protege's they were meant for.

I wish Morris Day, Kenny Rogers Tony Christian(Mazarati) Brenda & Susan Moonsie were on this too

Instead setting it up to seem to be a 'romantic' thing. Prince wasn't that way with Apollonia, nor Taj Sevellle.

.

I mean if they interviewed Morris Day/the Time, I doubt they would call themselves 'the originals'

I don't know why Jill is the only person that continues to bring in the sexual nature of things into this. She did it on the Piano & Microphone 1983 release too.



Yeah, it's the usual turning it into being about the women themselves that annoys me. Lately it seems like we can't just look at Prince and his work without the older women trying to make it about themselves, although I'll admit that the fans keep on with it too for some unknown reason. There's not gonna be a career resurgence for any of them off his music at this point. It's really not a good look for them to keep interjecting themselves, it's starting to reek too much of desperation to be noticed.


[Edited 7/1/19 10:42am]

Welcome to "the org", Mumio…they can have you, but I'll have your love in the end nod
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