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Thread started 11/03/16 8:57pm

Poorlovelycomp
uter

Jam and Lewis after The Time

After being fired from The Time Jimmy and Terry went on to produce numerous acts Janet Jackson being one the biggest artist they produced. Do you think the music they produced was something different and new or just a copy sound of the real Minneapolis sound?
[Edited 11/3/16 20:59pm]
"love's the only drug we do in here"-Prince
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Reply #1 posted 11/03/16 9:02pm

PeteSilas

Jam called it a Prince sound himself in a documentary on the Minneapolis sound. I know that Jam and Lewis have done different types of production but I haven't really liked it. the main popular stuff they did was vintage Prince with no allusions or pretensions of doing anything other than being a hit.

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Reply #2 posted 11/03/16 9:04pm

databank

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Poorlovelycomputer said:

After being fired from The Time Jimmy and Terry went on to produce numerous acts Janet Jackson being one the biggest artist they produced. Do you think the music they produced was something different and new or just a copy sound of the real Minneapolis sound? [Edited 11/3/16 20:59pm]

You are so going to be relocated to Associated Artists lol

The consensus is they built on the Minneapolis Sound to create New Jack Swing. I somewhat agree with that. If you listen to Alexander O'Neal's 1985 album it's still a copycat of The Time's sound, then with Janet's Control it becomes something else entirely.

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Reply #3 posted 11/03/16 9:07pm

Goddess4Real

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Poorlovelycomputer said:

After being fired from The Time Jimmy and Terry went on to produce numerous acts Janet Jackson being one the biggest artist they produced. Do you think the music they produced was something different and new or just a copy sound of the real Minneapolis sound? [Edited 11/3/16 20:59pm]

Good question, when I hear their early productions I think of Prince, and elements of Ollie and Jerry (of Breakin....There's No Stopping Us fame) but at the same time you feel they are developing their own sound.

Keep Calm & Listen To Prince
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Reply #4 posted 11/03/16 9:11pm

PeteSilas

i don't know you guys, not to dismiss them but they stole an awful lot from Prince. One thing they did better in my opinion was produce the rhythm so that it sounded huge and in your face, prince's rhythm tracks were easy to overlook because of the mixes. But they stole hooks from Prince, Escapade is nothing but I could never take the place of your man. There was a riff on Control that was taken from Prince's live show, you know, just an extra vamp, i don't think it was even a song but it was funky.

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Reply #5 posted 11/03/16 9:29pm

Poorlovelycomp
uter

It was a blatant rip off to me when I first heard it back then the theme is similar to Take me with u and nasty boys?? Cashing in on the Vanity 6 classic "everybody wanted to be like Prince"
"love's the only drug we do in here"-Prince
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Reply #6 posted 11/03/16 9:31pm

Poorlovelycomp
uter

Latoya even did a prince song smile
"love's the only drug we do in here"-Prince
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Reply #7 posted 11/03/16 9:33pm

databank

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Poorlovelycomputer said:

Latoya even did a prince song smile

There's a Prince cover on all 2 of the 3 Jackson sisters albums in 1984, and Jesse is on the third lol

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Reply #8 posted 11/03/16 10:06pm

Goddess4Real

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Poorlovelycomputer said:

Latoya even did a prince song smile

And it was shrug nuts lol

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Reply #9 posted 11/04/16 8:28am

NinaB

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They did the 'red bull music academy' recently, really looking forward that! biggrin
"We just let people talk & say whatever they want 2 say. 9 times out of 10, trust me, what's out there now, I wouldn't give nary one of these folks the time of day. That's why I don't say anything back, because there's so much that's wrong" - P, Dec '15
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Reply #10 posted 11/05/16 2:42am

LittleBLUECorv
ette

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The SOS Band didn't sound like Prince.
PRINCE: Always and Forever
MICHAEL JACKSON: Always and Forever
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Reply #11 posted 11/05/16 2:45am

PeteSilas

LittleBLUECorvette said:

The SOS Band didn't sound like Prince.

no it didn't and neither did tender love, jam and lewis were good but i don't think they'd ever deny how much influence prince had on them.

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Reply #12 posted 11/07/16 4:54pm

TrivialPursuit

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LittleBLUECorvette said:

The SOS Band didn't sound like Prince.


THANK YOU! That was my first thought. I have those records, and they are full on Flyte Tyme sound, not Prince sound. They were working with SOS Band when they got fired. If folks listen to Human League's "Human" or Janet's "Let's Wait Awhile" and "What Have You Done For Me Lately or Force MDs "Tender Love" (mentioned herein), that's the sound you hear in their production. Big keyboards, echoy reverb, chime/bell sound hooks, a clear synthy bass, open-ended percussion, layered vocals, lush overall. To me, it's quite distinct. Even things like "Do Me, Baby" or "International Lover" or "Free" don't sound a lick like Flyte Tyme's ballads. Flyte Tyme produced a lot of people, and their sound was as recognizable as Prince's, or Darkchild, or LaFace, or Gamble & Huff, etc etc.

Prince did fire them thinking they were giving away his sound, but they weren't. They're people who have their own ideas and desires to do more. None of their stuff sounded like Prince, or The Time. They haven't had the longevity and respect for the past 30+ years for copying "The Walk" over and over.

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Reply #13 posted 11/07/16 9:27pm

Goddess4Real

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I enjoy listening to all their music.....at the moment its It It Isn't Love by New Edition, that whole Heartbreak (1988) album is cool music and brings back great memories.

[Edited 11/7/16 21:32pm]

[Edited 11/7/16 21:33pm]

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Reply #14 posted 11/08/16 8:20pm

Poorlovelycomp
uter

Members of NE went on to form BBD who lyrics whose lyrics are as sexual as prince's were.
"love's the only drug we do in here"-Prince
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Reply #15 posted 11/09/16 7:48pm

phunkdaddy

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LittleBLUECorvette said:

The SOS Band didn't sound like Prince.


Thank u. In fact the S.O.S Band resembled Yarborough and Peoples sound more so
than the Minneapolis sound with the exception of No Lies. Like someone stated
earlier when they first got in the production game of course Minneapolis was a part of them but they expanded their creativity.
Don't laugh at my funk
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Reply #16 posted 11/09/16 7:54pm

phunkdaddy

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TrivialPursuit said:



LittleBLUECorvette said:


The SOS Band didn't sound like Prince.


THANK YOU! That was my first thought. I have those records, and they are full on Flyte Tyme sound, not Prince sound. They were working with SOS Band when they got fired. If folks listen to Human League's "Human" or Janet's "Let's Wait Awhile" and "What Have You Done For Me Lately or Force MDs "Tender Love" (mentioned herein), that's the sound you hear in their production. Big keyboards, echoy reverb, chime/bell sound hooks, a clear synthy bass, open-ended percussion, layered vocals, lush overall. To me, it's quite distinct. Even things like "Do Me, Baby" or "International Lover" or "Free" don't sound a lick like Flyte Tyme's ballads. Flyte Tyme produced a lot of people, and their sound was as recognizable as Prince's, or Darkchild, or LaFace, or Gamble & Huff, etc etc.

Prince did fire them thinking they were giving away his sound, but they weren't. They're people who have their own ideas and desires to do more. None of their stuff sounded like Prince, or The Time. They haven't had the longevity and respect for the past 30+ years for copying "The Walk" over and over.



Last sentence.
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Don't laugh at my funk
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Reply #17 posted 11/14/16 1:42pm

BEAUGARDE

Cherrelle, Alexander O'Neal & Janet Jackson were apart of the MN Sound. So was Andre Cymone/Jody Watley's Looking For A New Love Album. Morris, Vanity & Jesse kept using P's style primarily, just not every song but for the most part. There are Time elements in the SOS Band as well, so stop playing!

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Reply #18 posted 11/15/16 7:45pm

Iamtheorg

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BEAUGARDE said:

Cherrelle, Alexander O'Neal & Janet Jackson were apart of the MN Sound. So was Andre Cymone/Jody Watley's Looking For A New Love Album. Morris, Vanity & Jesse kept using P's style primarily, just not every song but for the most part. There are Time elements in the SOS Band as well, so stop playing!

Tell 'em why you mad son!

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Reply #19 posted 11/15/16 7:53pm

TrivialPursuit

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BEAUGARDE said:

Cherrelle, Alexander O'Neal & Janet Jackson were apart of the MN Sound. So was Andre Cymone/Jody Watley's Looking For A New Love Album. Morris, Vanity & Jesse kept using P's style primarily, just not every song but for the most part. There are Time elements in the SOS Band as well, so stop playing!


I'd disagree, at least to the point of it sounding like something from What Time Is It?. Jam & Lewis' sound, while firmly Minneapolis, was really a new-Minneapolis sound. They took the synthy funk of The Time, and polished it into a glossy and groovy R&B genre all its own. Something like "Someday Is Tonight" or "Let's Wait Awhile" from Janet is perfectly Flyte Tyme, but you cannot hear Morris singing either of those songs. Hell, you'd much rather expect Janet to sing "Human" instead of Human League. Yet moreover, you could hear Morris going solo on something like Herb's "Diamonds".

The great thing about J&Lis that they took R&B that was already out there, and frankly struggling to find it's place in a market that, at the time, was trying to find a new footing, and reinvented it.

However you slice it, they've certainly stood on their own and not relied on Prince one goddamn bit to establish themselves far and above being the two guys Prince fired in 1982/3.

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Reply #20 posted 11/15/16 8:28pm

Iamtheorg

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Not to mention, Alexander's Innocent blatantly rips off 1999.

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Reply #21 posted 11/16/16 3:12pm

phunkdaddy

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Iamtheorg said:

Not to mention, Alexander's Innocent blatantly rips off 1999.

I hear none of that in 1999. At that time to date that was one of Prince most unique songs.

It was even different coming from him and even less of the traditional Minneapolis sound he

was known for. If you want to say it was a bastard child of a Time song produced by Prince

I would get it. Sorry but Innocent sounds nothing like 1999.

Don't laugh at my funk
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Reply #22 posted 11/16/16 4:48pm

LittleBLUECorv
ette

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phunkdaddy said:



Iamtheorg said:


Not to mention, Alexander's Innocent blatantly rips off 1999.




I hear none of that in 1999. At that time to date that was one of Prince most unique songs.


It was even different coming from him and even less of the traditional Minneapolis sound he


was known for. If you want to say it was a bastard child of a Time song produced by Prince


I would get it. Sorry but Innocent sounds nothing like 1999.


Innocent sounds more like a D-Train song than a Prince song.
PRINCE: Always and Forever
MICHAEL JACKSON: Always and Forever
-----
Live Your Life How U Wanna Live It
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Reply #23 posted 11/16/16 7:37pm

Iamtheorg

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LittleBLUECorvette said:

phunkdaddy said:

I hear none of that in 1999. At that time to date that was one of Prince most unique songs.

It was even different coming from him and even less of the traditional Minneapolis sound he

was known for. If you want to say it was a bastard child of a Time song produced by Prince

I would get it. Sorry but Innocent sounds nothing like 1999.

Innocent sounds more like a D-Train song than a Prince song.

Innocent has the sme melody line as 1999, They even admitted to ripping off 1999.

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Reply #24 posted 11/16/16 8:07pm

LittleBLUECorv
ette

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Iamtheorg said:



LittleBLUECorvette said:


phunkdaddy said:



I hear none of that in 1999. At that time to date that was one of Prince most unique songs.


It was even different coming from him and even less of the traditional Minneapolis sound he


was known for. If you want to say it was a bastard child of a Time song produced by Prince


I would get it. Sorry but Innocent sounds nothing like 1999.



Innocent sounds more like a D-Train song than a Prince song.



Innocent has the sme melody line as 1999, They even admitted to ripping off 1999.


It does. But they still sound nothing alike. Because everything else around it is different.
PRINCE: Always and Forever
MICHAEL JACKSON: Always and Forever
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Live Your Life How U Wanna Live It
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Reply #25 posted 11/16/16 8:10pm

Iamtheorg

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LittleBLUECorvette said:

Iamtheorg said:

Innocent has the sme melody line as 1999, They even admitted to ripping off 1999.

It does. But they still sound nothing alike. Because everything else around it is different.

k

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Reply #26 posted 11/20/16 6:16am

KoolEaze

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PeteSilas said:

i don't know you guys, not to dismiss them but they stole an awful lot from Prince. One thing they did better in my opinion was produce the rhythm so that it sounded huge and in your face, prince's rhythm tracks were easy to overlook because of the mixes. But they stole hooks from Prince, Escapade is nothing but I could never take the place of your man. There was a riff on Control that was taken from Prince's live show, you know, just an extra vamp, i don't think it was even a song but it was funky.

You are right.

There is also a song on Janet´s Control album that uses a small portion of Prince´s song Possessed. It is the same synth line that you can hear in the background in the Purple Rain movie...the scene where Morris and Apollonia are sitting at a table in First Avenue and later Prince plays The Beautiful Ones.

I think there was a lot of friendly competition and both parties probably stole a little bit from each other here and there but I think it´s obvious that Jimmy and Terry were more influenced by Prince than the other way around.

Prince once made fun of this by posting a video to Blue Limousine off of the Apollonia 6 album, comparing the melody to the SOS Band´s Borrowed Love, which was written by Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis. Remember Prince allegedly fired them for missing a plane because they were busy working with the SOS Band and a snow storm prevented them from making it to the gig they had with Prince.

" I´d rather be a stank ass hoe because I´m not stupid. Oh my goodness! I got more drugs! I´m always funny dude...I´m hilarious! Are we gonna smoke?"




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Reply #27 posted 11/20/16 10:44am

Iamtheorg

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KoolEaze said:

PeteSilas said:

i don't know you guys, not to dismiss them but they stole an awful lot from Prince. One thing they did better in my opinion was produce the rhythm so that it sounded huge and in your face, prince's rhythm tracks were easy to overlook because of the mixes. But they stole hooks from Prince, Escapade is nothing but I could never take the place of your man. There was a riff on Control that was taken from Prince's live show, you know, just an extra vamp, i don't think it was even a song but it was funky.

You are right.

There is also a song on Janet´s Control album that uses a small portion of Prince´s song Possessed. It is the same synth line that you can hear in the background in the Purple Rain movie...the scene where Morris and Apollonia are sitting at a table in First Avenue and later Prince plays The Beautiful Ones.

I think there was a lot of friendly competition and both parties probably stole a little bit from each other here and there but I think it´s obvious that Jimmy and Terry were more influenced by Prince than the other way around.

that Possessed instrumental synth line is on the song You Can Be Mine from Control

yeah, their competition was one of friendship

there's a story that Prince drove up blasting Jam Of The Year in their studio parking lot calling them out lol

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Reply #28 posted 11/20/16 11:53am

TrivialPursuit

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KoolEaze said:

Prince once made fun of this by posting a video to Blue Limousine off of the Apollonia 6 album, comparing the melody to the SOS Band´s Borrowed Love, which was written by Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis. Remember Prince allegedly fired them for missing a plane because they were busy working with the SOS Band and a snow storm prevented them from making it to the gig they had with Prince.


"17 Days" = "Blue Limosine" = "Toy Box".

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Reply #29 posted 11/20/16 8:23pm

MickyDolenz

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LittleBLUECorvette said:

D-Train

This one kinda sounds like D-Train

Jam & Lewis also did Ice T's 1st single


For 65 years straight, the #1 genre in music, selling wise, was rock n' roll worldwide. Last year (2017) in June, it got de-crowned by hip hop. Hip hop is the #1 genre. It's hip hop - rock - country - pop or pop - country. ~ Pras
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