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Thread started 08/19/19 5:12pm

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

Why do young men commit more crimes?

After recently seeing a week with three different mass shooting by young males in their early 20's with assault rifles indiscriminately killing for no sane reason. Not for food, not for self preservation, not for personal gain, not out of any conceivable necessity, not for any sane reason, ...and three others arrested just recently for plotting the same exact thing, one has to ask, what the fuck is going on?

.

Statistics have always shown that young males commit a disproportionate percentage of violent crimes and are a large part of the prison population, one has to ask why?.

.

i ran a quick google search and this is one of the results I got.

...and this stil didn't answer the question of the mass shootings as there was seemingly no gain, rhyme or reason to these, as opposed to what the below outlines as the some of the reasons.

Here is a snip

https://www.futurelearn.c...teps/20256

Why do young men commit more crimes?

Gender and age are arguably the two best predictors of crime. In 2014, males accounted for 73 percent of all arrestees in the U.S. and 80 percent of those arrested for violent crimes. Prison population statistics tells a similar story. Males accounted for 93 percent of the U.S. prisoners in 2014. Similarly, more than half of all homicides in 2014 were committed by 15-to-29-year olds, who only made up 20 percent of the population. Young males also have much higher rates of crime victimization than other demographic groups.

Given these large disparities in crime commission, victimization, and imprisonment by gender and age, it is natural to ask: Why are young men much more likely to be involved in crime? The discrepancy may be largely driven by biological differences in natural strength and the tendency to use violence between men and women and between the young and the old. At the same time, differences in economic opportunities may also play some role in explaining high crime rates among young men.

An Economic Explanation

Economist Jeffrey Grogger argues that high crime rates among young men can be partly explained by their adverse labor market opportunities. Jobs available for this demographic group tend to be low-paying ones, making it more likely for young males to be swayed by criminal opportunities that promise higher pecuniary payoffs. His analysis shows that real wage for young men declined by more than 20 percent during the 1970s and 1980s, during which arrest rates for men aged 16 to 24 rose by 20 percent.

If low wage rates for male youths are an important determinant of their high crime rates, perhaps we can discourage their criminal participation by improving their labor market conditions. For example, higher minimum wage can make it less likely for a youth to choose crime as an alternative job. At the same time, standard economic intuition tells us that higher minimum wage can reduce the number of available jobs, and increased unemployment among male youths may actually encourage them to look for alternative “work” from the criminal sector.

Economists Andrew Beauchamp and Stacey Chan tested this prediction by examining the change in minimum wage laws across the U.S. states between 1997 and 2010, and found that increasing minimum wage did lead to job losses and increased crimes committed by those in their teens and 20s. (This adverse effect of the minimum wage increase on crime was particularly strong among former gang members.) More employment opportunities for unskilled youths may be more effective in reducing youth crime than providing fewer jobs with higher pay.

[Edited 8/19/19 17:24pm]

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Reply #1 posted 08/19/19 5:29pm

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

here is one study where age is the main focus

.

here is a snippet

.

The Age and Crime RelationshipSocial Variation, Social ExplanationsJeffery T. UlmerThe Pennsylvania State UniversityDarrell SteffensmeierThe Pennsylvania State University
https://www.sagepub.com/s...ter_23.pdf

.

The relationship between aging and criminal activity has been noted since the beginnings of criminology. For example, Adolphe Quetelet (1831/1984) found that the proportion of the population involved in crime tends to peak in adolescence or early adulthood and then decline with age. In contemporary times, the FBI’s Uniform Crime Report (UCR) arrest data (1935–1997), particularly the Crime Index (homicide, robbery, rape, aggravated assault, burglary, larceny-theft, auto theft), document the consistency of the age effect on crime. They also reveal a long-term trend toward younger age-crime distributions in more modern times. Today, the peak age-crime involvement (the age group with the highest age-spe- cific arrest rate) is younger than 25 for all crimes reported in the FBI’s UCR pro- gram except gambling, and rates begin to decline in the late teenage years for more than half of the UCR crimes. Even the median age (50% of all arrests occurring among younger persons) is younger than 30 for most crimes. The National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS), self-report studies of juvenile and adult criminality, and interview data from convicted felons also corroborate the robust effect of age on crime patterns (Elliott, Huizinga, & Morse, 1986; Rowe & Tittle, 1977). In fact, a significant portion of U.S. national crime rate trends over time can be explained by fluctuations in the proportion of the population in the crime-prone age group of 15- to 24-year-olds (Steffensmeier & Harer, 1987, 1999).It is now a truism that age is one of the strongest factors associated with criminal behavior. In fact, some have claimed that the age-crime relationship is invariant, or universal across groups, societies, and times (Hirschi & Gottfredson, 1983), and that this invariance signals that the age-crime relationship is strongly biologically determined (Kanazawa & Still, 2000).However, invariance in the age-crime relationship is a very bold claim, given that we have comparatively limited data. That is, we do not have an abundance of evi- dence about the age distribution of crime across countries, across time periods (especially times prior to the 1930s), and across population subgroups. Age-crime statistics covering the full range of ages across these comparisons are simply not available in many instances.The claim of invariance in the age-crime relationship was contested soon after it was first articulated by Travis Hirschi and Michael Gottfredson in 1983 (see Greenberg, 1985; Steffensmeier, 1989). We also argue that a claim of invariance in the age-crime relationship is overstated, and that sociologically important variation exists across historical periods, societies, crime types, and groups in specific fea- tures of the age-crime relationship (e.g., peak age, median age, rate of decline from peak age). We note many social factors that are widely thought to shape and struc- ture the patterns of criminal involvement in the life course.It is also worth noting that consistencies in age differences in crime across space and time could indicate either that (a) differences have a biological basis, or (b) that age socialization and age-graded norms are remarkably constant across times and settings for reasons that are socially practical and only indirectly biological. For example, for any society to thrive, elder carriers of institutions must socialize youth to become productive members of the group that fills social structural roles, and must therefore ensure an adequate level of conformity among postyouth groups. One would expect that such socialization and pressures for conformity would inevitably be problematic and incomplete for some youth, but such pressures would increase with age.More broadly, it is impossible to examine people, as social animals, apart from either their physical bodies or their social contexts. Our bodies are important instru- ments of action and social interaction. Obviously, there are biological dimensions to the age-crime relationship, since aging itself is a biological, neurological, psycho- logical, and social process. Physical and neuropsychological development and aging over the life course (especially the early life course) set the parameters of possibility and limitation for behavior, including criminal behavior. The foundation of aging has long been seen as relevant to the age-crime connection by criminologists (Greenberg, 1985; Steffensmeier & Allan, 2000). In the early 21st century, evidence has amassed from neuropsychology that aspects of brain development relating to

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Reply #2 posted 08/19/19 6:34pm

tmo1965

This is just my twocents . I think that the main reason for the disproportionate rate of crime among young men is biological - as in testosterone. Males in most species are far more aggressive than females. Poverty is a 2nd leading cause of crime across all cultures. I think that with age comes wisdom, and that's at least part of reason for the lowered crime rate among older guys. It could also be the result of lowered testosterone has men age as well.

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Reply #3 posted 08/19/19 6:50pm

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

tmo1965 said:

This is just my twocents . I think that the main reason for the disproportionate rate of crime among young men is biological - as in testosterone. Males in most species are far more aggressive than females. Poverty is a 2nd leading cause of crime across all cultures. I think that with age comes wisdom, and that's at least part of reason for the lowered crime rate among older guys. It could also be the result of lowered testosterone has men age as well.



Yeah testosterone, but the recent shootings are just beyond anything. What I mean is that it’s indiscriminate and seemingly just psychological.
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Reply #4 posted 08/19/19 8:37pm

jjhunsecker

avatar

tmo1965 said:

This is just my twocents . I think that the main reason for the disproportionate rate of crime among young men is biological - as in testosterone. Males in most species are far more aggressive than females. Poverty is a 2nd leading cause of crime across all cultures. I think that with age comes wisdom, and that's at least part of reason for the lowered crime rate among older guys. It could also be the result of lowered testosterone has men age as well.

Also, men who lead a life of crime and violence either eventually spend considerable time in jail, die off, or simply get tired of that lifestyle and move on

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Reply #5 posted 08/20/19 6:22am

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

Good question.

.

Misdirected energy is a biggy. Get young men doing things that let them feel like they are making something happen, and able to get that energy out, and we would see less of it. Testosterone is a big thing involved in that.

.

I noticed that men in general need to do something that is focused, start - complete.

.

I noticed fast food places move faster with men on the grill, not on the register.

.

I also think females are ignored a lot when it comes to violences or crimes. People tend to find it humorous or look the other way. The amount of crimes and violence by women is probably underrated and under reported.

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence
I will make you cyber shit in your pants!
What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In
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Reply #6 posted 08/20/19 7:26am

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

I think it has to do with the transition from child to adult. The body and strength sometimes develop a lot faster than the mind.
Some even stay in a preputual arrested development. I see a lot of men who never really seem to have grown up.

I think education has to focus on that development. It's a preventive mental health initiative.

[Edited 8/20/19 7:38am]

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Reply #7 posted 08/20/19 7:33am

maplenpg

avatar

jjhunsecker said:

tmo1965 said:

This is just my twocents . I think that the main reason for the disproportionate rate of crime among young men is biological - as in testosterone. Males in most species are far more aggressive than females. Poverty is a 2nd leading cause of crime across all cultures. I think that with age comes wisdom, and that's at least part of reason for the lowered crime rate among older guys. It could also be the result of lowered testosterone has men age as well.

Also, men who lead a life of crime and violence either eventually spend considerable time in jail, die off, or simply get tired of that lifestyle and move on

I think some of this is linked to men seeing crime as an income. There are many men serving long sentences whose families live in luxury. Of course they will never admit they are living off the proceeds of the crime, but from the outside it's difficult to see how else they could afford it. There are definitely men that will serve 10+ years for a robberies/drug dealing/murder etc... knowing that the proceeds will keep their families (and them upon release) financially stable for life.

We are all okay, as long as "we" are the ones living on top of the empire of eternal war. - Jaawwnn
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Reply #8 posted 08/20/19 7:40am

maplenpg

avatar

OldFriends4Sale said:

Good question.

.

Misdirected energy is a biggy. Get young men doing things that let them feel like they are making something happen, and able to get that energy out, and we would see less of it. Testosterone is a big thing involved in that.

.

I noticed that men in general need to do something that is focused, start - complete.

.

I noticed fast food places move faster with men on the grill, not on the register.

.

I also think females are ignored a lot when it comes to violences or crimes. People tend to find it humorous or look the other way. The amount of crimes and violence by women is probably underrated and under reported.

If you meet women incarcerated in women's jails, there is inevitably a man behind their crime. Women in prison often have desperate tales behind them, and many have lost their children, their families, and finally their partners as a result of their crimes (often because of the addictions they have). Men often have a family to go to upon release, women often don't. In short, female crime is often commited out of desperation, male crime is often commited out of ego or need for fast cash (of course, there are always exemptions, we cannot possibly stereotype entire genders - I'm just speaking from experience).

We are all okay, as long as "we" are the ones living on top of the empire of eternal war. - Jaawwnn
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Reply #9 posted 08/20/19 7:40am

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

maplenpg said:

jjhunsecker said:

Also, men who lead a life of crime and violence either eventually spend considerable time in jail, die off, or simply get tired of that lifestyle and move on

I think some of this is linked to men seeing crime as an income. There are many men serving long sentences whose families live in luxury. Of course they will never admit they are living off the proceeds of the crime, but from the outside it's difficult to see how else they could afford it. There are definitely men that will serve 10+ years for a robberies/drug dealing/murder etc... knowing that the proceeds will keep their families (and them upon release) financially stable for life.

That doesn't explain why young men are the highest percentage. These young men, especially the ones in mass shootings don't have kids or families of their own.

[Edited 8/20/19 7:41am]

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Reply #10 posted 08/20/19 7:49am

maplenpg

avatar

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

After recently seeing a week with three different mass shooting by young males in their early 20's with assault rifles indiscriminately killing for no sane reason. Not for food, not for self preservation, not for personal gain, not out of any conceivable necessity, not for any sane reason, ...and three others arrested just recently for plotting the same exact thing, one has to ask, what the fuck is going on?

.

Statistics have always shown that young males commit a disproportionate percentage of violent crimes and are a large part of the prison population, one has to ask why?.

.

i ran a quick google search and this is one of the results I got.

...and this stil didn't answer the question of the mass shootings as there was seemingly no gain, rhyme or reason to these, as opposed to what the below outlines as the some of the reasons.

Here is a snip

https://www.futurelearn.c...teps/20256

Why do young men commit more crimes?

Gender and age are arguably the two best predictors of crime. In 2014, males accounted for 73 percent of all arrestees in the U.S. and 80 percent of those arrested for violent crimes. Prison population statistics tells a similar story. Males accounted for 93 percent of the U.S. prisoners in 2014. Similarly, more than half of all homicides in 2014 were committed by 15-to-29-year olds, who only made up 20 percent of the population. Young males also have much higher rates of crime victimization than other demographic groups.

Given these large disparities in crime commission, victimization, and imprisonment by gender and age, it is natural to ask: Why are young men much more likely to be involved in crime? The discrepancy may be largely driven by biological differences in natural strength and the tendency to use violence between men and women and between the young and the old. At the same time, differences in economic opportunities may also play some role in explaining high crime rates among young men.

An Economic Explanation

Economist Jeffrey Grogger argues that high crime rates among young men can be partly explained by their adverse labor market opportunities. Jobs available for this demographic group tend to be low-paying ones, making it more likely for young males to be swayed by criminal opportunities that promise higher pecuniary payoffs. His analysis shows that real wage for young men declined by more than 20 percent during the 1970s and 1980s, during which arrest rates for men aged 16 to 24 rose by 20 percent.

If low wage rates for male youths are an important determinant of their high crime rates, perhaps we can discourage their criminal participation by improving their labor market conditions. For example, higher minimum wage can make it less likely for a youth to choose crime as an alternative job. At the same time, standard economic intuition tells us that higher minimum wage can reduce the number of available jobs, and increased unemployment among male youths may actually encourage them to look for alternative “work” from the criminal sector.

Economists Andrew Beauchamp and Stacey Chan tested this prediction by examining the change in minimum wage laws across the U.S. states between 1997 and 2010, and found that increasing minimum wage did lead to job losses and increased crimes committed by those in their teens and 20s. (This adverse effect of the minimum wage increase on crime was particularly strong among former gang members.) More employment opportunities for unskilled youths may be more effective in reducing youth crime than providing fewer jobs with higher pay.

[Edited 8/19/19 17:24pm]

I think young men often want fash cash as opposed to a slow drip income in a low-paying job. They see crime as a way of affording what they could not afford otherwise.

I think mass shooters (and indeed many that commit murder) are completely different. They are not driven by cash, but by hatred (sometimes just a flash of hate, not always slow building). I think we should take mental wellbeing much, much more seriously. Mental illness is massive in the prison community, and is often at least in part, part of the thing that led them to getting the sentence in the first place.


We are all okay, as long as "we" are the ones living on top of the empire of eternal war. - Jaawwnn
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Reply #11 posted 08/20/19 8:04am

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

maplenpg said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

After recently seeing a week with three different mass shooting by young males in their early 20's with assault rifles indiscriminately killing for no sane reason. Not for food, not for self preservation, not for personal gain, not out of any conceivable necessity, not for any sane reason, ...and three others arrested just recently for plotting the same exact thing, one has to ask, what the fuck is going on?

.

Statistics have always shown that young males commit a disproportionate percentage of violent crimes and are a large part of the prison population, one has to ask why?.

.

i ran a quick google search and this is one of the results I got.

...and this stil didn't answer the question of the mass shootings as there was seemingly no gain, rhyme or reason to these, as opposed to what the below outlines as the some of the reasons.

Here is a snip

https://www.futurelearn.c...teps/20256

Why do young men commit more crimes?

Gender and age are arguably the two best predictors of crime. In 2014, males accounted for 73 percent of all arrestees in the U.S. and 80 percent of those arrested for violent crimes. Prison population statistics tells a similar story. Males accounted for 93 percent of the U.S. prisoners in 2014. Similarly, more than half of all homicides in 2014 were committed by 15-to-29-year olds, who only made up 20 percent of the population. Young males also have much higher rates of crime victimization than other demographic groups.

Given these large disparities in crime commission, victimization, and imprisonment by gender and age, it is natural to ask: Why are young men much more likely to be involved in crime? The discrepancy may be largely driven by biological differences in natural strength and the tendency to use violence between men and women and between the young and the old. At the same time, differences in economic opportunities may also play some role in explaining high crime rates among young men.

An Economic Explanation

Economist Jeffrey Grogger argues that high crime rates among young men can be partly explained by their adverse labor market opportunities. Jobs available for this demographic group tend to be low-paying ones, making it more likely for young males to be swayed by criminal opportunities that promise higher pecuniary payoffs. His analysis shows that real wage for young men declined by more than 20 percent during the 1970s and 1980s, during which arrest rates for men aged 16 to 24 rose by 20 percent.

If low wage rates for male youths are an important determinant of their high crime rates, perhaps we can discourage their criminal participation by improving their labor market conditions. For example, higher minimum wage can make it less likely for a youth to choose crime as an alternative job. At the same time, standard economic intuition tells us that higher minimum wage can reduce the number of available jobs, and increased unemployment among male youths may actually encourage them to look for alternative “work” from the criminal sector.

Economists Andrew Beauchamp and Stacey Chan tested this prediction by examining the change in minimum wage laws across the U.S. states between 1997 and 2010, and found that increasing minimum wage did lead to job losses and increased crimes committed by those in their teens and 20s. (This adverse effect of the minimum wage increase on crime was particularly strong among former gang members.) More employment opportunities for unskilled youths may be more effective in reducing youth crime than providing fewer jobs with higher pay.

[Edited 8/19/19 17:24pm]

I think young men often want fash cash as opposed to a slow drip income in a low-paying job. They see crime as a way of affording what they could not afford otherwise.

I think mass shooters (and indeed many that commit murder) are completely different. They are not driven by cash, but by hatred (sometimes just a flash of hate, not always slow building). I think we should take mental wellbeing much, much more seriously. Mental illness is massive in the prison community, and is often at least in part, part of the thing that led them to getting the sentence in the first place.


I think it all goes back to developmental issues. The "fast cash" mentality like any immediate gratification, is a sign of developmental issues. lack of critical thinking. It could be that the brain is not fully developed. What we call "maturity"

Young people have the most to lose as they risk their entire lives because of lack of control, lack of maturity.
There are also studies that show a difference in the development of male and female brains.

.

But all this still doesn't explain for me, the rash of mass shootings by young men. That still baffles me.

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Reply #12 posted 08/20/19 8:48am

2freaky4church
1

avatar

Power and patriarchy. Culture tells men bad signals. The whole alpha male bs. Why Christ is such a good role model.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #13 posted 08/20/19 9:00am

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

maplenpg said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Good question.

.

Misdirected energy is a biggy. Get young men doing things that let them feel like they are making something happen, and able to get that energy out, and we would see less of it. Testosterone is a big thing involved in that.

.

I noticed that men in general need to do something that is focused, start - complete.

.

I noticed fast food places move faster with men on the grill, not on the register.

.

I also think females are ignored a lot when it comes to violences or crimes. People tend to find it humorous or look the other way. The amount of crimes and violence by women is probably underrated and under reported.

If you meet women incarcerated in women's jails, there is inevitably a man behind their crime. Women in prison often have desperate tales behind them, and many have lost their children, their families, and finally their partners as a result of their crimes (often because of the addictions they have). Men often have a family to go to upon release, women often don't. In short, female crime is often commited out of desperation, male crime is often commited out of ego or need for fast cash (of course, there are always exemptions, we cannot possibly stereotype entire genders - I'm just speaking from experience).

We could also say a lot of crimes men committ there are women interconnected.

.
But ego and fast cash could be the result of taking care of someone as well.

Women in American culture tend to have a large safety net on departing Prison. From their nuclear family, network of women outreach/support community as well as friends. Men actually don't have a large access to to support.

.

But crimes like stealing, shoplifting, violence toward other women, and violence toward children, don't have to have a man as an excuse.

But of course as a whole, we all are a part of a society where expectations and pressures are put on male and female.

Too many states in the US still treat men who are fathers very harshly when it comes to child support. You cannot take a man's check and expect him not to 'work under the table' or do something illegal to make ends meet. And even when he does she can keep coming back for more (whether married or not). Dispite what his life is like. I saw a guys check after child support took it. How do they expect him to live off $22
.
As far as the OP mentioning 'Young Men' I believe 'Young Women' committ crimes in similar fashion-they don't do it out of desperation because they don't have children, they have their nuclear families or not -which can cause anyone to committ crimes out of desperation.

.

From my parents generation and onward boys tend to be 'forced' out sooner and expected to make it on their own. Girls tend to be allowed to stay at home for longer periods of time.
But people don't take violence from women seriously. So whether they went to jail or not, I suspect for the same action, a man would probably go to jail. Versus women(especially if they are cute) get leniency.
.
Of course there are so many different variables. And people do do stupid illogical things for "love".

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence
I will make you cyber shit in your pants!
What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In
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Reply #14 posted 08/20/19 9:04am

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

maplenpg said:

I think some of this is linked to men seeing crime as an income. There are many men serving long sentences whose families live in luxury. Of course they will never admit they are living off the proceeds of the crime, but from the outside it's difficult to see how else they could afford it. There are definitely men that will serve 10+ years for a robberies/drug dealing/murder etc... knowing that the proceeds will keep their families (and them upon release) financially stable for life.

That doesn't explain why young men are the highest percentage. These young men, especially the ones in mass shootings don't have kids or families of their own.

[Edited 8/20/19 7:41am]

Right, because men are easily isolated. And expectations of 'being a man' is put on them by society, by other men and by women.

There are a lot of points that go into that. I don't think it will every go away or change, but there will never really be an 'equal' or balanced expectation of men and women.

.

I think it was comedian Sinbad who said a woman can be working at McDonalds and a man with a good job will still try to talk to her, whereas a a man working at McDonalds a woman will not give him the time of day.

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence
I will make you cyber shit in your pants!
What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In
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Reply #15 posted 08/20/19 9:49am

jjhunsecker

avatar

maplenpg said:

jjhunsecker said:

Also, men who lead a life of crime and violence either eventually spend considerable time in jail, die off, or simply get tired of that lifestyle and move on

I think some of this is linked to men seeing crime as an income. There are many men serving long sentences whose families live in luxury. Of course they will never admit they are living off the proceeds of the crime, but from the outside it's difficult to see how else they could afford it. There are definitely men that will serve 10+ years for a robberies/drug dealing/murder etc... knowing that the proceeds will keep their families (and them upon release) financially stable for life.

I was more thinking of young men who turn to crime when they feel like they have no other option. As opposed to say, deeply involved Mafia members or Russian gangsters or high level drug kingpins, who would have amassed enough money to provide for their families once they were in prison.

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Reply #16 posted 08/20/19 9:52am

maplenpg

avatar

OldFriends4Sale said:

maplenpg said:

If you meet women incarcerated in women's jails, there is inevitably a man behind their crime. Women in prison often have desperate tales behind them, and many have lost their children, their families, and finally their partners as a result of their crimes (often because of the addictions they have). Men often have a family to go to upon release, women often don't. In short, female crime is often commited out of desperation, male crime is often commited out of ego or need for fast cash (of course, there are always exemptions, we cannot possibly stereotype entire genders - I'm just speaking from experience).

We could also say a lot of crimes men committ there are women interconnected.

.
But ego and fast cash could be the result of taking care of someone as well.

Women in American culture tend to have a large safety net on departing Prison. From their nuclear family, network of women outreach/support community as well as friends. Men actually don't have a large access to to support.

.

But crimes like stealing, shoplifting, violence toward other women, and violence toward children, don't have to have a man as an excuse.

But of course as a whole, we all are a part of a society where expectations and pressures are put on male and female.

Too many states in the US still treat men who are fathers very harshly when it comes to child support. You cannot take a man's check and expect him not to 'work under the table' or do something illegal to make ends meet. And even when he does she can keep coming back for more (whether married or not). Dispite what his life is like. I saw a guys check after child support took it. How do they expect him to live off $22
.
As far as the OP mentioning 'Young Men' I believe 'Young Women' committ crimes in similar fashion-they don't do it out of desperation because they don't have children, they have their nuclear families or not -which can cause anyone to committ crimes out of desperation.

.

From my parents generation and onward boys tend to be 'forced' out sooner and expected to make it on their own. Girls tend to be allowed to stay at home for longer periods of time.
But people don't take violence from women seriously. So whether they went to jail or not, I suspect for the same action, a man would probably go to jail. Versus women(especially if they are cute) get leniency.
.
Of course there are so many different variables. And people do do stupid illogical things for "love".

I can only speak for British prisons, and as far as safety nets go, I would say it is very different. Often a man has isolated the woman from her family and friends, often encouraging her to take drugs and become an addict to boot. He will be the one who visits her and continues to control her. He will be who she goes to afterwards. It goes around in cycles.

Men who are inside tend to manipulate people around them. They often have multiple girlfriends, as well as family. They might or might not also have friends involved in their 'gang' who visit them. They also make 'friends' inside in a way the women don't tend to so much.

I absolutely agree about the expectations put upon males, and child support is an issue here too, but that (child support) is a different topic IMO as non-criminals are very much part of that.

I'm not sure I agree that boys are forced out of homes sooner, but that is just my experience.

Leniency is for the courts to decide, and will be based on what is best for the accused, and for the safety of others, not on gender.

Your last sentence is entirely correct.

We are all okay, as long as "we" are the ones living on top of the empire of eternal war. - Jaawwnn
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Reply #17 posted 08/20/19 9:53am

jjhunsecker

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Ugot2shakesumthin said:

maplenpg said:

I think some of this is linked to men seeing crime as an income. There are many men serving long sentences whose families live in luxury. Of course they will never admit they are living off the proceeds of the crime, but from the outside it's difficult to see how else they could afford it. There are definitely men that will serve 10+ years for a robberies/drug dealing/murder etc... knowing that the proceeds will keep their families (and them upon release) financially stable for life.

That doesn't explain why young men are the highest percentage. These young men, especially the ones in mass shootings don't have kids or families of their own.

[Edited 8/20/19 7:41am]

I would think that the men who are involved in mass shootings are in the grip of obsessions, or mental illness even, that has driven them beyond rationality.

As opposed to that, a young guy in the hood, or out in the boondocks, who might do low level drug dealing (and sometimes the violence that comes with it) or other crimes because they grew up in such an environment and because they see crime as their only viable option in many cases.

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Reply #18 posted 08/20/19 10:13am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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maplenpg said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

We could also say a lot of crimes men committ there are women interconnected.

.
But ego and fast cash could be the result of taking care of someone as well.

Women in American culture tend to have a large safety net on departing Prison. From their nuclear family, network of women outreach/support community as well as friends. Men actually don't have a large access to to support.

.

But crimes like stealing, shoplifting, violence toward other women, and violence toward children, don't have to have a man as an excuse.

But of course as a whole, we all are a part of a society where expectations and pressures are put on male and female.

Too many states in the US still treat men who are fathers very harshly when it comes to child support. You cannot take a man's check and expect him not to 'work under the table' or do something illegal to make ends meet. And even when he does she can keep coming back for more (whether married or not). Dispite what his life is like. I saw a guys check after child support took it. How do they expect him to live off $22
.
As far as the OP mentioning 'Young Men' I believe 'Young Women' committ crimes in similar fashion-they don't do it out of desperation because they don't have children, they have their nuclear families or not -which can cause anyone to committ crimes out of desperation.

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From my parents generation and onward boys tend to be 'forced' out sooner and expected to make it on their own. Girls tend to be allowed to stay at home for longer periods of time.
But people don't take violence from women seriously. So whether they went to jail or not, I suspect for the same action, a man would probably go to jail. Versus women(especially if they are cute) get leniency.
.
Of course there are so many different variables. And people do do stupid illogical things for "love".

I can only speak for British prisons, and as far as safety nets go, I would say it is very different. Often a man has isolated the woman from her family and friends, often encouraging her to take drugs and become an addict to boot. He will be the one who visits her and continues to control her. He will be who she goes to afterwards. It goes around in cycles.

Men who are inside tend to manipulate people around them. They often have multiple girlfriends, as well as family. They might or might not also have friends involved in their 'gang' who visit them. They also make 'friends' inside in a way the women don't tend to so much.

I absolutely agree about the expectations put upon males, and child support is an issue here too, but that (child support) is a different topic IMO as non-criminals are very much part of that.

I'm not sure I agree that boys are forced out of homes sooner, but that is just my experience.

Leniency is for the courts to decide, and will be based on what is best for the accused, and for the safety of others, not on gender.

Your last sentence is entirely correct.

Well that kind of 'abusive' relationship is a different circumstance.

.

But I know men, and one very close to me that is going through the reverse of what you mentioned above. I've seen this happen a lot when men get married. This particular cousin was isolated from his family, and social community, she was very manipulative in dealing with finances and business, and kept him off balance when it came down to balancing the need to be there for the children and holding a job. And she has cheated a few times and he's still there trying to make it work. She has put him out of the house a few times, and he knew to leave because they threaten to tall the cops and he will always be asked to leave the house(not her). His name is in the mud. She messed up his credit too. I've known of men who go through this throught my lifetime. They think they are doing the right thing by 'supporting her'.
.
Again, people still go after his manhood when they will hear about these things. But if it was the opposite, her womanhood is never questioned.

.

Actually child support for -non criminals falls under this issue too. Because when you become pressed people can and do commit crimes. Men commit suicide in larger numbers. Also those stresses and expectations lead to excessive drinking or drug use, and can make people violent.
When stressed for money to pay bills, someone might do something illegal. Murder has been committed as the result of these things. And women take part in a lot of that too.

.

It's kind of a thing that boys are expected to make their way in the world, and women wait till marriage. It's sorta how it's always been. A woman still at home in her 20s and 30s is ok, but a male at home becomes a momma's boy. His manhood is questioned. Maybe not in England, but it's always been that way here.

.

Yeah it is. Case in point, a older female that has sex with an underage boy will get 'community service' and man that does the same thing will get jail time, name will go on the sex offender registry. When people talk about boys who are molested by women, it's smirked at. People say 'he was in heaven' 'hot for teacher. Two girls fighting turns into a 'mud wrestling contest' a lot of domestic/social violence by girls is not take as serious. Even in movies a woman hitting a man is looked at as 'girl power'.

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence
I will make you cyber shit in your pants!
What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In
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Reply #19 posted 08/20/19 10:25am

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

jjhunsecker said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

That doesn't explain why young men are the highest percentage. These young men, especially the ones in mass shootings don't have kids or families of their own.

[Edited 8/20/19 7:41am]

I would think that the men who are involved in mass shootings are in the grip of obsessions, or mental illness even, that has driven them beyond rationality.

As opposed to that, a young guy in the hood, or out in the boondocks, who might do low level drug dealing (and sometimes the violence that comes with it) or other crimes because they grew up in such an environment and because they see crime as their only viable option in many cases.


i can understand oppression, lack of opportunities and mental illness. But that still skips over the bigger issue of developmental preparedness. Young people, male and female behave irresponsibly in their young adulthood. Make bad choices, impulsive choices. There is immaturity that especially for younger men with testosterone at its peak, coupled with immaturity is a powder keg.

.

there was a time when young men would get married and have children and got to work at a very young age and be pushed into responsibility head first. I just wonder if a modern society doesn't need to better prepare teens beyond just academics. A question of culture and education into forging a better society.

.

having said all that...one of the studies up above cites that up until 2000, violent crimes by young adults were trending down. Hopefully those figures keep improving and people continue to plug away in understanding how to mitigate some urges and leverage other biological factors into positive effects.

[Edited 8/20/19 10:32am]

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Reply #20 posted 08/20/19 10:38am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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These kinds of crimes though, I don't think you will find a sane reply.

.
I particularly don't understand that a lot of youth are going through. I think it is generational specific. Maybe these guys feel 'invisible'. I think of the Columbine shooters. And even though they came from well to do families, from my understanding they were 'nerds' bullied by jocks and popular girls, and more importantly their parents did not pay attention to them. They parents were about making the life happen, and throwing money at the kids so to speak.

.

I read that men who are exhibitionists, flashers etc they say it is tied to not being 'seen' by their mothers.

.

I think a lot of men can probably acknowledge that we are not 'seen' fully as in not allowed to be vulnerable, open, expressive, except in certain ways. Hurt tends to be the fuel of violence. Kids no live in an increasingly cyberworld, and a world where popularity by media outlets can really affect peoples mindsets.

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

After recently seeing a week with three different mass shooting by young males in their early 20's with assault rifles indiscriminately killing for no sane reason. Not for food, not for self preservation, not for personal gain, not out of any conceivable necessity, not for any sane reason, ...and three others arrested just recently for plotting the same exact thing, one has to ask, what the fuck is going on?

.

Statistics have always shown that young males commit a disproportionate percentage of violent crimes and are a large part of the prison population, one has to ask why?.

.

i ran a quick google search and this is one of the results I got.

...and this stil didn't answer the question of the mass shootings as there was seemingly no gain, rhyme or reason to these, as opposed to what the below outlines as the some of the reasons.

Here is a snip

https://www.futurelearn.c...teps/20256

Why do young men commit more crimes?

Gender and age are arguably the two best predictors of crime. In 2014, males accounted for 73 percent of all arrestees in the U.S. and 80 percent of those arrested for violent crimes. Prison population statistics tells a similar story. Males accounted for 93 percent of the U.S. prisoners in 2014. Similarly, more than half of all homicides in 2014 were committed by 15-to-29-year olds, who only made up 20 percent of the population. Young males also have much higher rates of crime victimization than other demographic groups.

Given these large disparities in crime commission, victimization, and imprisonment by gender and age, it is natural to ask: Why are young men much more likely to be involved in crime? The discrepancy may be largely driven by biological differences in natural strength and the tendency to use violence between men and women and between the young and the old. At the same time, differences in economic opportunities may also play some role in explaining high crime rates among young men.

An Economic Explanation

Economist Jeffrey Grogger argues that high crime rates among young men can be partly explained by their adverse labor market opportunities. Jobs available for this demographic group tend to be low-paying ones, making it more likely for young males to be swayed by criminal opportunities that promise higher pecuniary payoffs. His analysis shows that real wage for young men declined by more than 20 percent during the 1970s and 1980s, during which arrest rates for men aged 16 to 24 rose by 20 percent.

If low wage rates for male youths are an important determinant of their high crime rates, perhaps we can discourage their criminal participation by improving their labor market conditions. For example, higher minimum wage can make it less likely for a youth to choose crime as an alternative job. At the same time, standard economic intuition tells us that higher minimum wage can reduce the number of available jobs, and increased unemployment among male youths may actually encourage them to look for alternative “work” from the criminal sector.

Economists Andrew Beauchamp and Stacey Chan tested this prediction by examining the change in minimum wage laws across the U.S. states between 1997 and 2010, and found that increasing minimum wage did lead to job losses and increased crimes committed by those in their teens and 20s. (This adverse effect of the minimum wage increase on crime was particularly strong among former gang members.) More employment opportunities for unskilled youths may be more effective in reducing youth crime than providing fewer jobs with higher pay.

[Edited 8/19/19 17:24pm]

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence
I will make you cyber shit in your pants!
What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In
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Reply #21 posted 08/20/19 11:32am

jjhunsecker

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Ugot2shakesumthin said:

jjhunsecker said:

I would think that the men who are involved in mass shootings are in the grip of obsessions, or mental illness even, that has driven them beyond rationality.

As opposed to that, a young guy in the hood, or out in the boondocks, who might do low level drug dealing (and sometimes the violence that comes with it) or other crimes because they grew up in such an environment and because they see crime as their only viable option in many cases.


i can understand oppression, lack of opportunities and mental illness. But that still skips over the bigger issue of developmental preparedness. Young people, male and female behave irresponsibly in their young adulthood. Make bad choices, impulsive choices. There is immaturity that especially for younger men with testosterone at its peak, coupled with immaturity is a powder keg.

.

there was a time when young men would get married and have children and got to work at a very young age and be pushed into responsibility head first. I just wonder if a modern society doesn't need to better prepare teens beyond just academics. A question of culture and education into forging a better society.

.

having said all that...one of the studies up above cites that up until 2000, violent crimes by young adults were trending down. Hopefully those figures keep improving and people continue to plug away in understanding how to mitigate some urges and leverage other biological factors into positive effects.

[Edited 8/20/19 10:32am]

I agree with much of what you say here. A lot of young men are lost. Girls outperform them academically starting in Grade school, and are better prepared for the world. I remember a story about 10 years ago on "60 Minutes" that pointed it out, and a person who studies these issues said that if it was purely about grades and tests scores, most of the best colleges in America would be 60-70% women. but since most colleges don't want such an imbalanced ratio, they essentiall perform "Affirmative Action for Men", and bring in men with lower scores and grades.

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Reply #22 posted 08/20/19 11:42am

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

jjhunsecker said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:


i can understand oppression, lack of opportunities and mental illness. But that still skips over the bigger issue of developmental preparedness. Young people, male and female behave irresponsibly in their young adulthood. Make bad choices, impulsive choices. There is immaturity that especially for younger men with testosterone at its peak, coupled with immaturity is a powder keg.

.

there was a time when young men would get married and have children and got to work at a very young age and be pushed into responsibility head first. I just wonder if a modern society doesn't need to better prepare teens beyond just academics. A question of culture and education into forging a better society.

.

having said all that...one of the studies up above cites that up until 2000, violent crimes by young adults were trending down. Hopefully those figures keep improving and people continue to plug away in understanding how to mitigate some urges and leverage other biological factors into positive effects.

[Edited 8/20/19 10:32am]

I agree with much of what you say here. A lot of young men are lost. Girls outperform them academically starting in Grade school, and are better prepared for the world. I remember a story about 10 years ago on "60 Minutes" that pointed it out, and a person who studies these issues said that if it was purely about grades and tests scores, most of the best colleges in America would be 60-70% women. but since most colleges don't want such an imbalanced ratio, they essentiall perform "Affirmative Action for Men", and bring in men with lower scores and grades.

girls get their own set of problems once puberty sets in. Thereis as much need for both males and females in developmental preparedness. Females are just not the powder keg of dangerous volatility that young males are.

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Reply #23 posted 08/20/19 11:53am

jjhunsecker

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Ugot2shakesumthin said:

jjhunsecker said:

I agree with much of what you say here. A lot of young men are lost. Girls outperform them academically starting in Grade school, and are better prepared for the world. I remember a story about 10 years ago on "60 Minutes" that pointed it out, and a person who studies these issues said that if it was purely about grades and tests scores, most of the best colleges in America would be 60-70% women. but since most colleges don't want such an imbalanced ratio, they essentiall perform "Affirmative Action for Men", and bring in men with lower scores and grades.

girls get their own set of problems once puberty sets in. Thereis as much need for both males and females in developmental preparedness. Females are just not the powder keg of dangerous volatility that young males are.

Very true. Maybe it's the testosterone, and also that most societies are more accepting of violence from men- "boys will be boys"- than they are from women/girls

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Reply #24 posted 08/20/19 12:03pm

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

jjhunsecker said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

girls get their own set of problems once puberty sets in. Thereis as much need for both males and females in developmental preparedness. Females are just not the powder keg of dangerous volatility that young males are.

Very true. Maybe it's the testosterone, and also that most societies are more accepting of violence from men- "boys will be boys"- than they are from women/girls

The testosterone is not the problem. I think it's about maturity and learning to deal with it and put it into positive work. Leverage it as it is in sports or any other activity that allowed us to advance mankind.
Maturity does not happen automatically. Wisdom does not happen automatically. Teachers, mentors, society all plays a part into turning adolescent young males into good men.
.

i know that's not an easy task, and it's in some ways an abstraction, but most societies have put an importance into forging boys into men because of the consequence of not doing so.

[Edited 8/20/19 12:04pm]

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Reply #25 posted 08/20/19 12:19pm

guitarslinger4
4

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I read an article that posited that lack of father figures is a major factor in a lot of these mass shootings and crime. When boys don't have anyone to teach them who to "be a man" and instead look up to celebrities or local heroes/criminals because that's all they have to work with, it messes with their heads.

Fathers fuck up their sons by not being around.

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Reply #26 posted 08/20/19 12:24pm

jjhunsecker

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Ugot2shakesumthin said:

jjhunsecker said:

Very true. Maybe it's the testosterone, and also that most societies are more accepting of violence from men- "boys will be boys"- than they are from women/girls

The testosterone is not the problem. I think it's about maturity and learning to deal with it and put it into positive work. Leverage it as it is in sports or any other activity that allowed us to advance mankind.
Maturity does not happen automatically. Wisdom does not happen automatically. Teachers, mentors, society all plays a part into turning adolescent young males into good men.
.

i know that's not an easy task, and it's in some ways an abstraction, but most societies have put an importance into forging boys into men because of the consequence of not doing so.

[Edited 8/20/19 12:04pm]

I agree with petty much everything you say here. Also, I still think America- and probably most societies worldwide- have different standards for boys versus girls, and that plays a big factor in this type of behavior. It's acceptable- even encouraged - for boys to aggressive, even to use violence to solve problems. You can see where that leads if left unchecked in extreme cases

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Reply #27 posted 08/20/19 12:34pm

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

Recently we've had people like Andrew Yang and Mark Cuban speak about the economic changes that technology, and specifically AI will have. How manufacturing and many jobs will go by the wayside.
Humanity has not been at an impass where muscle and brawn was not as necessary as it was in past working models.
.

Women have fared way better in the changing economy. Their strengths have been well suited and their gender roles more flexible. High paying jobs such as doctors and healthcare are well suitied for both sexes. But males who are not well educated will fare far worse. There needs to be an educational intervention soon or see young males struggling more. Struggling more both mentally and economically.
.

there may be a time when even the military doesn't need uneducated cannon fodder but can do everything it needs and cheaper with drones.

[Edited 8/20/19 12:40pm]

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Reply #28 posted 08/20/19 12:45pm

jjhunsecker

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Ugot2shakesumthin said:

Recently we've had people like Andrew Yang and Mark Cuban speak about the economic changes that technology, and specifically AI will have. How manufacturing and many jobs will go by the wayside.
Humanity has not been at an impass where muscle and brawn was not as necessary as it was in past working models.
.


Women have fared way better in the changing economy. Their strengths have been well suited and their gender roles more flexible. High paying jobs such as doctors and healthcare are well suitied for both sexes. But males who are not well educated will fare far worse. There needs to be an educational intervention soon or see young males struggling more. Struggling more both mentally and economically.
.


there may be a time when even the military doesn't need uneducated cannon fodder but can do everything it needs and cheaper with drones.




[Edited 8/20/19 12:40pm]


This is just what I was getting at - that there's almost no need or even place in our highly technical society for undereducated men. That's probably a big factor in why so many act out
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Reply #29 posted 08/20/19 12:55pm

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

jjhunsecker said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

Recently we've had people like Andrew Yang and Mark Cuban speak about the economic changes that technology, and specifically AI will have. How manufacturing and many jobs will go by the wayside.
Humanity has not been at an impass where muscle and brawn was not as necessary as it was in past working models.
.


Women have fared way better in the changing economy. Their strengths have been well suited and their gender roles more flexible. High paying jobs such as doctors and healthcare are well suitied for both sexes. But males who are not well educated will fare far worse. There needs to be an educational intervention soon or see young males struggling more. Struggling more both mentally and economically.
.


there may be a time when even the military doesn't need uneducated cannon fodder but can do everything it needs and cheaper with drones.




[Edited 8/20/19 12:40pm]


This is just what I was getting at - that there's almost no need or even place in our highly technical society for undereducated men. That's probably a big factor in why so many act out


As some have speculated, that “bringing jobs back” will not actually “bring jobs” to people, as the “jobs” will be done my machines and automation. ...which in turn speeds up unemployment and leaves third world countries that thrived in fulfilling low paying jobs in turmoil.
The only solution i can think of, goes back to a better educated society that is better equipped to fulfill the needs of the new economy.
[Edited 8/20/19 12:59pm]
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