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Thread started 08/15/19 6:17am

poppys

Labor Department Proposes Religious Bias Exemption



Labor Department Proposes Religious Bias Exemption in Hiring Practices for Federal Contracts

https://www.newsweek.com/...ts-1454412

The U.S. Department of Labor on Wednesday announced a rule proposal that will grant religious organizations contracted by the federal government the right to hire people based on religious values and not be hindered by any accusations of discrimination when hiring....

The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) tweeted Wednesday that the rule proposal discriminates against several groups from potentially getting hired by companies working for the federal government—citing "taxpayer-funded discrimination."

"The Department of Labor just proposed a rule that aims to let government contractors fire workers who are LGBTQ, or who are pregnant and unmarried, based on the employers' religious views," ACLU wrote. "This is taxpayer-funded discrimination in the name of religion. Period.

"This rule seeks to undermine our civil rights protections and encourages discrimination in the workplace—and we will work to stop it."...


One of Mike Pence's wet dreams coming true. Government sanctioned and funded job discrimination based on "religious values".

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Reply #1 posted 08/15/19 6:23am

Musicslave

poppys said:



Labor Department Proposes Religious Bias Exemption in Hiring Practices for Federal Contracts

https://www.newsweek.com/...ts-1454412

The U.S. Department of Labor on Wednesday announced a rule proposal that will grant religious organizations contracted by the federal government the right to hire people based on religious values and not be hindered by any accusations of discrimination when hiring....

The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) tweeted Wednesday that the rule proposal discriminates against several groups from potentially getting hired by companies working for the federal government—citing "taxpayer-funded discrimination."

"The Department of Labor just proposed a rule that aims to let government contractors fire workers who are LGBTQ, or who are pregnant and unmarried, based on the employers' religious views," ACLU wrote. "This is taxpayer-funded discrimination in the name of religion. Period.

"This rule seeks to undermine our civil rights protections and encourages discrimination in the workplace—and we will work to stop it."...


One of Mike Pence's wet dreams coming true. Government sanctioned and funded job discrimination based on "religious values".

-

The problem with most if not all of these religious freedom proposals is that they're usually based on Christian values. So what about the "religious values" of other faiths? Are those included as well? I don't think so.

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Reply #2 posted 08/15/19 6:47am

poppys

^^ Agree.

Religious freedom proposals is an oxymoron. We already have the separation of church and state, ie: religious freedom. This gives federal contractors the right to discriminate in hiring workers.

This is aimed at LGBT and any religion, including other Christian sects, whose individuals do not conform to the employer's religious "values". Muslims will not even be considered. Great way to discriminate against women too. Dovetails right into the anti-abortion crusade. Not only do you need to stay pregnant, you need to be married too - IF - you want a job.

Why should businesses who want to discriminate in hiring be given government contracts by the taxpayers of this country?

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Reply #3 posted 08/15/19 8:53am

RodeoSchro

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I don;'t see how this could be Constitutional. It damn sure isn't Christian, or American, in any way, shape or form.

What happens if a federal contractor is a Muslim and decides to fire all the Christians that work for him?

What happens if a federal contractor is an atheist and decides to fire all believers of any kind who work for her?

This is totally ridiculous.

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Reply #4 posted 08/15/19 9:41am

Empress

RodeoSchro said:

I don;'t see how this could be Constitutional. It damn sure isn't Christian, or American, in any way, shape or form.

What happens if a federal contractor is a Muslim and decides to fire all the Christians that work for him?

What happens if a federal contractor is an atheist and decides to fire all believers of any kind who work for her?

This is totally ridiculous.

Rodeo, as I've said many times before, you are so often the voice of reason on this site. I always appreciate your insight and opinions. I completely agree with on this, even if I don't always agree with your movie reviews lol

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Reply #5 posted 08/15/19 10:06am

Musicslave

RodeoSchro said:

I don;'t see how this could be Constitutional. It damn sure isn't Christian, or American, in any way, shape or form.

What happens if a federal contractor is a Muslim and decides to fire all the Christians that work for him?

What happens if a federal contractor is an atheist and decides to fire all believers of any kind who work for her?

This is totally ridiculous.

-

That was my point exactly. What about the values of other faiths outside of Christianity? I think they only have Christianity in mind with all of these "religious freedom" policies but realize they can't just come out and say that they're for "Christian Values Only" due to discrimination against other religions.

-

You NEVER (at least, I never heard) any politician defend the rights or freedoms for other faiths. Just because the majority of the country is Christian, doesn't mean you can or should impose your faith onto others. Christ Himself wouldn't have that. Didn't He say, "Whosoever will let them come." They're trying to force their belief system onto others. That's not Christianity, nor American.

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Reply #6 posted 08/15/19 10:19am

poppys

RodeoSchro said:

I don't see how this could be Constitutional. It damn sure isn't Christian, or American, in any way, shape or form.

What happens if a federal contractor is a Muslim and decides to fire all the Christians that work for him?

What happens if a federal contractor is an atheist and decides to fire all believers of any kind who work for her?

This is totally ridiculous.


Need to do research when I have more time. Wondering if the Labor Dept can just shove this through?

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Reply #7 posted 08/15/19 10:24am

poppys

Musicslave said:

RodeoSchro said:

I don;'t see how this could be Constitutional. It damn sure isn't Christian, or American, in any way, shape or form.

What happens if a federal contractor is a Muslim and decides to fire all the Christians that work for him?

What happens if a federal contractor is an atheist and decides to fire all believers of any kind who work for her?

This is totally ridiculous.

-

That was my point exactly. What about the values of other faiths outside of Christianity? I think they only have Christianity in mind with all of these "religious freedom" policies but realize they can't just come out and say that they're for "Christian Values Only" due to discrimination against other religions.

-

You NEVER (at least, I never heard) any politician defend the rights or freedoms for other faiths. Just because the majority of the country is Christian, doesn't mean you can or should impose your faith onto others. Christ Himself wouldn't have that. Didn't He say, "Whosoever will let them come." They're trying to force their belief system onto others. That's not Christianity, nor American.


It's also a specific "brand" of Christianity. The Christian sect I was raised with is strictly against proselytising or calling attention to your religion. Separate from the government or your job. This is how religious "cleansing" starts.

[Edited 8/15/19 10:26am]

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Reply #8 posted 08/15/19 10:54am

RodeoSchro

avatar

Empress said:

RodeoSchro said:

I don;'t see how this could be Constitutional. It damn sure isn't Christian, or American, in any way, shape or form.

What happens if a federal contractor is a Muslim and decides to fire all the Christians that work for him?

What happens if a federal contractor is an atheist and decides to fire all believers of any kind who work for her?

This is totally ridiculous.

Rodeo, as I've said many times before, you are so often the voice of reason on this site. I always appreciate your insight and opinions. I completely agree with on this, even if I don't always agree with your movie reviews lol



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hug

Second Funkiest White Man in America

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Reply #9 posted 08/15/19 10:57am

RodeoSchro

avatar

Musicslave said:

RodeoSchro said:

I don;'t see how this could be Constitutional. It damn sure isn't Christian, or American, in any way, shape or form.

What happens if a federal contractor is a Muslim and decides to fire all the Christians that work for him?

What happens if a federal contractor is an atheist and decides to fire all believers of any kind who work for her?

This is totally ridiculous.

-

That was my point exactly. What about the values of other faiths outside of Christianity? I think they only have Christianity in mind with all of these "religious freedom" policies but realize they can't just come out and say that they're for "Christian Values Only" due to discrimination against other religions.

-

You NEVER (at least, I never heard) any politician defend the rights or freedoms for other faiths. Just because the majority of the country is Christian, doesn't mean you can or should impose your faith onto others. Christ Himself wouldn't have that. Didn't He say, "Whosoever will let them come." They're trying to force their belief system onto others. That's not Christianity, nor American.




It kind of reminds me of the elections in Palestine back in 2004 or so. The Bush administration made a big push for elections and spent a lot of money on them, and then someone from the PLO won.

The GOP was apoplectic. They never considered the PLO could win the election, just like they have apparently never considered that a federal contractor who isn't a Christian could legally fire all the Christians he wants under this new rule.

Second Funkiest White Man in America

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Reply #10 posted 08/15/19 12:39pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

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So do those same churches put out women who are unmarried and pregnant?

.

How does any of this help society as far as government assistance problems, homelessness, prostitution etc

.

I cannot see this passing into any law

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Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
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Reply #11 posted 08/15/19 1:00pm

RodeoSchro

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OldFriends4Sale said:

So do those same churches put out women who are unmarried and pregnant?

.

How does any of this help society as far as government assistance problems, homelessness, prostitution etc

.

I cannot see this passing into any law



I think it's framed as a rule, not a law, so that the Labor Department can implement it without it having to go through Congress.

Because you're right - something like this would never get passed in the House.

So I imagine that if it's adopted, it will immediately be challenged in the courts. I hope it's found to be unconstitutional but with two Trump-appointees giving the GOP a solid majority, who can really say?

And if the USSC declines to strike this down, I want everyone to once again personally thank those fat, ugly, acne-ridden, snot-drinking, Marlboro-ingesting, Diplo fanatics in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin for being too lazy to vote, thus giving us President Donald Trump, Neil Gorsuch, Brett Kavanaugh, and horrible things like this proposed rule.

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Reply #12 posted 08/15/19 1:25pm

poppys

From the Newsweek article above:

The Department of Labor's Office of Federal Contract Compliance Programs (OFCCP) regulates anti-discrimination requirements for businesses that work with the federal government. However, the office stated it made the proposal in conjunction with President Donald Trump's effort to "enforce the robust protections for religious freedom found in federal law."...

"OFCCP is consistently looking for ways to bring clarity and certainty to federal contractors, and this proposal falls squarely within that effort. The rulemaking process allows the public opportunity to comment on the proposal and impact any potential final rules."



It doesn't look like it has to be voted on to become part of the Labor Dept's rules. If they do it, it will hopefully be challenged in the courts.

These particular "Christians" want fat government contracts, and also want to discriminate using "religious values" when hiring and firing. They are in effect saying THEY are discriminated against by not being able to pick and choose.


While running for Congress, Indiana governor Mike Pence called for state funding for "institutions" working to enable people to "change their sexual behavior." aka sexual orientation conversion therapy.

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Reply #13 posted 08/15/19 1:57pm

IanRG

This is restricted to 204(c) of executive order 11246 which says:

.

Section 202 of this Order shall not apply to a Government contractor or subcontractor that is a religious corporation, association, educational institution, or society, with respect to the employment of individuals of a particular religion to perform work connected with the carrying on by such corporation, association, educational institution, or society of its activities. Such contractors and subcontractors are not exempted or excused from complying with the other requirements contained in this Order.

.

And it is still open for comment on the following:

.

SUMMARY:

The U.S. Department of Labor's (DOL's) Office of Federal Contract Compliance Programs (OFCCP) is proposing regulations to clarify the scope and application of the religious exemption contained in section 204(c) of Executive Order 11246, as amended. The proposed clarifications to the religious exemption will help organizations with Federal Government contracts and subcontracts and federally assisted construction contracts and subcontracts better understand their Executive Order 11246 obligations.

.

You have till 16 Sept to table your concerns before anything happens. Voice your concerns.

.

It is an interesting question: Should a Muslim organisation contracting with the government be forced to employ Christians? It depends. If this contract is for Imans to work with the government only on religious issues, then no. But if it just happens to be a Islamic school and it is about a sports teacher or a trades company fixing buildings obviously the rules should never apply here. If the proposed clarifications are to extend and miss apply 204(c), this is bad but if it gives genuine clarity to appropriate rules, then not so bad.

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Reply #14 posted 08/15/19 2:20pm

poppys

Thanks Ian.

Considering this is "in conjunction with President Donald Trump's effort to "enforce the robust protections for religious freedom found in federal law.", I highly doubt the fine tuning is to protect anyone but the Christian right. Call me crazy.

The main thing they are going after is LGBT imo. But it is a wide net that could catch almost anybody they don't want around.

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Reply #15 posted 08/15/19 2:35pm

IanRG

poppys said:

Thanks Ian.

Considering this is "in conjunction with President Donald Trump's effort to "enforce the robust protections for religious freedom found in federal law.", I highly doubt the fine tuning is to protect anyone but the Christian right. Call me crazy.

The main thing they are going after is LGBT imo. But it is a wide net that could catch almost anybody they don't want around.

.

Understood. Make it hard for them: Flood the review with responses to water it down as much as possible and seek to correct it in 2021 (Hopefully).

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Reply #16 posted 08/15/19 2:58pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

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moderator

Musicslave said:

RodeoSchro said:

I don;'t see how this could be Constitutional. It damn sure isn't Christian, or American, in any way, shape or form.

What happens if a federal contractor is a Muslim and decides to fire all the Christians that work for him?

What happens if a federal contractor is an atheist and decides to fire all believers of any kind who work for her?

This is totally ridiculous.

-

That was my point exactly. What about the values of other faiths outside of Christianity? I think they only have Christianity in mind with all of these "religious freedom" policies but realize they can't just come out and say that they're for "Christian Values Only" due to discrimination against other religions.

-

You NEVER (at least, I never heard) any politician defend the rights or freedoms for other faiths. Just because the majority of the country is Christian, doesn't mean you can or should impose your faith onto others. Christ Himself wouldn't have that. Didn't He say, "Whosoever will let them come." They're trying to force their belief system onto others. That's not Christianity, nor American.

Yes, even though Islam and Judaism might be on the same lines, it is only focused on their denomination of Christian. But in the country Islam is still shaky ground, and Judaism tends to fly under the radar.

.

This is a bloated push, but it's also why people should prefer to have Trump voted out in the next election vs impeachment. Because we are not going to want Pence.

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence
I will make you cyber shit in your pants!
What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In
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Reply #17 posted 08/16/19 4:25pm

poppys

RodeoSchro said:

Musicslave said:

-

That was my point exactly. What about the values of other faiths outside of Christianity? I think they only have Christianity in mind with all of these "religious freedom" policies but realize they can't just come out and say that they're for "Christian Values Only" due to discrimination against other religions.

-

You NEVER (at least, I never heard) any politician defend the rights or freedoms for other faiths. Just because the majority of the country is Christian, doesn't mean you can or should impose your faith onto others. Christ Himself wouldn't have that. Didn't He say, "Whosoever will let them come." They're trying to force their belief system onto others. That's not Christianity, nor American.




It kind of reminds me of the elections in Palestine back in 2004 or so. The Bush administration made a big push for elections and spent a lot of money on them, and then someone from the PLO won.

The GOP was apoplectic. They never considered the PLO could win the election, just like they have apparently never considered that a federal contractor who isn't a Christian could legally fire all the Christians he wants under this new rule.


^ Good point. I guess they think they will be able to control who gets every contract too.

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