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Reply #30 posted 06/20/19 11:44am

djThunderfunk

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Ugot2shakesumthin said:

djThunderfunk said:

Do you believe Jones solicited the material or even knew the it was in the emails?

Do you believe it's possible that someone that hated Jones may have sent it to him to set him up?



I have to ask this, of you and Only, would you be so darn defensive if it was Hillaries emails we were talking about?

I didn’t see you or Only so up in arms defending her honor as you have been of Jones.


Start a thread.

It's hilarious that Rodeo is clearly the person on the org that is MOST obsessed with Jones, yet you guys act like myself or Only are the one's that are "up in arms".

It's also interesting that being objective is seen as being a fan of someone to you guys. What a strange point of view you have.

REEFER MADNESS!
Joe Biden still thinks marijuana is a gateway drug:
https://www.businessinsid...t-2019-11/
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Reply #31 posted 06/20/19 11:45am

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

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djThunderfunk said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:



I have to ask this, of you and Only, would you be so darn defensive if it was Hillaries emails we were talking about?

I didn’t see you or Only so up in arms defending her honor as you have been of Jones.


Start a thread.

It's hilarious that Rodeo is clearly the person on the org that is MOST obsessed with Jones, yet you guys act like myself or Only are the one's that are "up in arms".

It's also interesting that being objective is seen as being a fan of someone to you guys. What a strange point of view you have.



Objective lol

im calling you out on hypocrisy lol

[Edited 6/20/19 11:45am]

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Reply #32 posted 06/20/19 11:47am

djThunderfunk

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RodeoSchro said:

I absolutely believe that fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex Jones is capable of having requested kiddie porn. The fat fuck/possible pedophile lied about the murder of 20 children, for crying out loud. And did it on purpose, for money. With absolutely no regard whatsoever for the feelings, emotions, and devastation experienced by the parents whose children were gunned down in cold blood.

Could anyone think that a person that could do that couldn't do anything else vile, disgusting and illegal?

I do not think very many people will be surprised if it turns out that fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex Jones actually is into child porn.

That is far more likely that someone trying to "set up" that fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex Jones. Hey, I'm no email expert. But I have to believe that no matter what safeguards you try, the feds can track your account and ultimately find you.

We all know that transmitting child pornography is a fast-track ticket to Hell if you're caught. It means prison time, and it probably means brutalization while in prison. So let me ask you:

Do you honestly think there are people who hate that fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex Jones so much that they'd risk their freedom and physical safety in order to do something so thoroughly disgusting, risky and illegal, just to "get" that fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex Jones?



You believe he requested it, had it sent to Infowars servers, then didn't even open it? Wow!

You find it unlikely that he's hated enough for someone to try to set him up? You are special.

To your last question, ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY, it happens every single day to people far less polarizing than Jones. You have to know this.


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Joe Biden still thinks marijuana is a gateway drug:
https://www.businessinsid...t-2019-11/
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Reply #33 posted 06/20/19 11:48am

djThunderfunk

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Ugot2shakesumthin said:

djThunderfunk said:


Start a thread.

It's hilarious that Rodeo is clearly the person on the org that is MOST obsessed with Jones, yet you guys act like myself or Only are the one's that are "up in arms".

It's also interesting that being objective is seen as being a fan of someone to you guys. What a strange point of view you have.



Objective lol

im calling you out on hypocrisy lol

[Edited 6/20/19 11:45am]


Explain your off topic nonsense.

REEFER MADNESS!
Joe Biden still thinks marijuana is a gateway drug:
https://www.businessinsid...t-2019-11/
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Reply #34 posted 06/20/19 11:52am

djThunderfunk

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Back on topic, Jones' video tirade where he lashed out and accused the plaintiff lawyers was unhinged and he will likely regret it.

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Joe Biden still thinks marijuana is a gateway drug:
https://www.businessinsid...t-2019-11/
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Reply #35 posted 06/20/19 11:54am

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

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djThunderfunk said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:



Objective lol

im calling you out on hypocrisy lol

[Edited 6/20/19 11:45am]


Explain your off topic nonsense.


lol
You know full well

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Reply #36 posted 06/20/19 11:57am

djThunderfunk

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Ugot2shakesumthin said:

djThunderfunk said:


Explain your off topic nonsense.


lol
You know full well


Riiiight. Start a thread.

REEFER MADNESS!
Joe Biden still thinks marijuana is a gateway drug:
https://www.businessinsid...t-2019-11/
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Reply #37 posted 06/20/19 11:57am

RodeoSchro

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djThunderfunk said:

RodeoSchro said:

I absolutely believe that fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex Jones is capable of having requested kiddie porn. The fat fuck/possible pedophile lied about the murder of 20 children, for crying out loud. And did it on purpose, for money. With absolutely no regard whatsoever for the feelings, emotions, and devastation experienced by the parents whose children were gunned down in cold blood.

Could anyone think that a person that could do that couldn't do anything else vile, disgusting and illegal?

I do not think very many people will be surprised if it turns out that fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex Jones actually is into child porn.

That is far more likely that someone trying to "set up" that fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex Jones. Hey, I'm no email expert. But I have to believe that no matter what safeguards you try, the feds can track your account and ultimately find you.

We all know that transmitting child pornography is a fast-track ticket to Hell if you're caught. It means prison time, and it probably means brutalization while in prison. So let me ask you:

Do you honestly think there are people who hate that fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex Jones so much that they'd risk their freedom and physical safety in order to do something so thoroughly disgusting, risky and illegal, just to "get" that fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex Jones?



You believe he requested it, had it sent to Infowars servers, then didn't even open it? Wow!

You find it unlikely that he's hated enough for someone to try to set him up? You are special.

To your last question, ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY, it happens every single day to people far less polarizing than Jones. You have to know this.




First off, only a certain set of emails were produced. Neither you nor I know if there are other emails residing somewhere on a device of that fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex Jones that he DID open. But I bet you the FBI will find out.

You can mischaracterize my position all you want but I've already said I hope that fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex Jones isn't into child porn. I just won't be surprised if he is. But in recognition of the fact that this is an as-yet unanswered question, I refer to that fat fuck/possible pedophile as a "possible" pedophile and not a "probable" pedophile.

Of course, you also mischaracterize the "set up". Are there people who'd like to set up that fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex Jones? Probably, who knows? But is there anyone out there so unhinged they'd risk their entire freedom by breaking federal law and transmitting child porn to do that? HIGHLY unlikely.

But you seem to believe this happens "every single day to people far less polarizing than (that fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex) Jones".

So - prove it. Show us some examples where someone sent some child porn to another person in an attempt to ruin their lives. Let's see how many examples of that you can find.

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Reply #38 posted 06/20/19 11:58am

RodeoSchro

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djThunderfunk said:

Back on topic, Jones' video tirade where he lashed out and accused the plaintiff lawyers was unhinged and he will likely regret it.




Uhhhhh.......perhaps you missed it but that fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex Jones already regrets it, as he was sanctioned by the judge.

You really should try to keep up and attempt to understand legal issues like that.

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Reply #39 posted 06/20/19 12:00pm

djThunderfunk

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Yeah, let me just google search "child porn planted on servers" real quick and see what happens. lol

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Joe Biden still thinks marijuana is a gateway drug:
https://www.businessinsid...t-2019-11/
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Reply #40 posted 06/20/19 12:01pm

djThunderfunk

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RodeoSchro said:

djThunderfunk said:

Back on topic, Jones' video tirade where he lashed out and accused the plaintiff lawyers was unhinged and he will likely regret it.




Uhhhhh.......perhaps you missed it but that fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex Jones already regrets it, as he was sanctioned by the judge.

You really should try to keep up and attempt to understand legal issues like that.


Hmmm, so when my objectivity leads me to scrutinize Jones you still find a way to attack me about it? Really?!? What is wrong with you?

REEFER MADNESS!
Joe Biden still thinks marijuana is a gateway drug:
https://www.businessinsid...t-2019-11/
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Reply #41 posted 06/20/19 12:08pm

RodeoSchro

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djThunderfunk said:

Yeah, let me just google search "child porn planted on servers" real quick and see what happens. lol



Well, you DID say it happens every single day. Prove it. Or retract it as an unprovable statement - and I don't blame you for one second for not wanting a Google search like that showing up in your history.

But you can't go around making unprovable claims, unless you know they're bullshit anyway and you think you're being cute.

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Reply #42 posted 06/20/19 12:09pm

RodeoSchro

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djThunderfunk said:

RodeoSchro said:




Uhhhhh.......perhaps you missed it but that fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex Jones already regrets it, as he was sanctioned by the judge.

You really should try to keep up and attempt to understand legal issues like that.


Hmmm, so when my objectivity leads me to scrutinize Jones you still find a way to attack me about it? Really?!? What is wrong with you?




You're a day or two behind the story and if you don't catch up, you're just going to continue looking foolish.

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Reply #43 posted 06/20/19 12:13pm

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

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djThunderfunk said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:


lol
You know full well


Riiiight. Start a thread.


About you guys trolling? Your hypocrisy?

Be more specific lol

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Reply #44 posted 06/20/19 12:37pm

djThunderfunk

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RodeoSchro said:

djThunderfunk said:

Yeah, let me just google search "child porn planted on servers" real quick and see what happens. lol



Well, you DID say it happens every single day. Prove it. Or retract it as an unprovable statement - and I don't blame you for one second for not wanting a Google search like that showing up in your history.

But you can't go around making unprovable claims, unless you know they're bullshit anyway and you think you're being cute.


I have no "proof".

That said, your assertion that the punishment would prevent anyone from doing it is ludicrous.

REEFER MADNESS!
Joe Biden still thinks marijuana is a gateway drug:
https://www.businessinsid...t-2019-11/
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Reply #45 posted 06/20/19 12:39pm

djThunderfunk

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Ugot2shakesumthin said:

djThunderfunk said:


Riiiight. Start a thread.


About you guys trolling? Your hypocrisy?

Be more specific lol


You're the one "trolling".

Or, can you quote comments I have made about Clinton's emails and explain how my comments are hypocritical?


REEFER MADNESS!
Joe Biden still thinks marijuana is a gateway drug:
https://www.businessinsid...t-2019-11/
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Reply #46 posted 06/20/19 12:44pm

RodeoSchro

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djThunderfunk said:

RodeoSchro said:



Well, you DID say it happens every single day. Prove it. Or retract it as an unprovable statement - and I don't blame you for one second for not wanting a Google search like that showing up in your history.

But you can't go around making unprovable claims, unless you know they're bullshit anyway and you think you're being cute.


I have no "proof".

That said, your assertion that the punishment would prevent anyone from doing it is ludicrous.



You won't even Google search the phrase, and yet you think the actual punishment and real-life ramifications for trying to set someone up with child porn aren't enough of a deterrent for anyone?

falloff

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Reply #47 posted 06/20/19 12:47pm

djThunderfunk

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RodeoSchro said:

djThunderfunk said:


I have no "proof".

That said, your assertion that the punishment would prevent anyone from doing it is ludicrous.



You won't even Google search the phrase, and yet you think the actual punishment and real-life ramifications for trying to set someone up with child porn aren't enough of a deterrent for anyone?

falloff


For "anyone"? Sure. For everyone? No way. You do know people commit heinous crimes dispite possible punishment every day, right?

Would you google search that phrase? May as well google "how to make a dirty bomb" while you're at it.

REEFER MADNESS!
Joe Biden still thinks marijuana is a gateway drug:
https://www.businessinsid...t-2019-11/
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Reply #48 posted 06/20/19 1:05pm

RodeoSchro

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djThunderfunk said:

RodeoSchro said:



You won't even Google search the phrase, and yet you think the actual punishment and real-life ramifications for trying to set someone up with child porn aren't enough of a deterrent for anyone?

falloff


For "anyone"? Sure. For everyone? No way. You do know people commit heinous crimes dispite possible punishment every day, right?

Would you google search that phrase? May as well google "how to make a dirty bomb" while you're at it.




Pards, I'm not the one who said it happens "every day" and then refused to provide any proof that it does.

That would be you.

Seriously - you've said it happens and happens with regularity. Prove it. Or, I guess, change your statement to you think it happens all the time, but you don't know for sure.

And to be perfectly clear: I'm referring to your statement that people set up others by sending them child porn. Let's see what you've got. You're a smart guy, you can probably figure out a way to research this without having to enter dubious search phrases.

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Reply #49 posted 06/20/19 1:06pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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Ugot2shakesumthin said:

djThunderfunk said:

Do you believe Jones solicited the material or even knew the it was in the emails?

Do you believe it's possible that someone that hated Jones may have sent it to him to set him up?



I have to ask this, of you and Only, would you be so darn defensive if it was Hillaries emails we were talking about?

I didn’t see you or Only so up in arms defending her honor as you have been of Jones.

I have not defended Jones at all. So far there is nothing to defend.

if he was aware or should have been aware that any of those email could contain these images and sent them anyway then he is guilty. But if they were sent to him without his knowlage and sent them with no intent then he would be just as much a victim.

What sets this apart from hillary is she knew she was sending emails and she knew or should have known some could have contained classified information. What kind of fool thinks a high level official would never send or receive any classified communications via email? She took that risk and everything that came with it. She intended to take that risk and no reasonable person could believe that none of them would ever be classified.

Also she clearly intended to delete emails. She said they made sure none of them were subject to the two written notices to preserve them.

What is sad is how many just leap to the assumption that he sent the with intent or some form of negligence or with some disregard facts that they could be included.

No one is coming for your abortion: they just want common-sense abortion regulations: background checks, waiting periods, lifetime limits, take a class, and a small tax.
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Reply #50 posted 06/20/19 1:08pm

djThunderfunk

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RodeoSchro said:

djThunderfunk said:


For "anyone"? Sure. For everyone? No way. You do know people commit heinous crimes dispite possible punishment every day, right?

Would you google search that phrase? May as well google "how to make a dirty bomb" while you're at it.




Pards, I'm not the one who said it happens "every day" and then refused to provide any proof that it does.

That would be you.

Seriously - you've said it happens and happens with regularity. Prove it. Or, I guess, change your statement to you think it happens all the time, but you don't know for sure.

And to be perfectly clear: I'm referring to your statement that people set up others by sending them child porn. Let's see what you've got. You're a smart guy, you can probably figure out a way to research this without having to enter dubious search phrases.


Yeah, not going to google that. So, if that's your measure, then take the win, brightboy.


REEFER MADNESS!
Joe Biden still thinks marijuana is a gateway drug:
https://www.businessinsid...t-2019-11/
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Reply #51 posted 06/20/19 1:11pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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RodeoSchro said:

That fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex Jones got his fat ass sanctioned yesterday for that bile-filled spewing of hate he let loose after he got caught supplying kiddie porn to the Sandy Hook families.

The judge sanctioned fat fuck/possible pedophile for what she called a despicable tirade against the attorney representing the families of victims of the school shooting.

The filing states: "It is worth noting that if the Jones Defendants had engaged in even minimal due diligence and actually reviewed the materials before production, they would have found the images themselves. Because the Jones Defendants did not do that, they transmitted images to the plaintiffs that if they were knowingly possessed is a serious federal crime."

PLEASE NOTE: This is exactly opposite from what the internet lawyers here on the Org have been harping.

The sanctions ordered by Bridgeport Superior Court Judge Barbara Bellis blocks that fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex Jones's attorneys from further attempts to dismiss the case. They also require that the that fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex Jones pay attorneys fees to the Sandy Hook families' lawyers related to the matter that fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex Jones addressed on last week's broadcast.

AGAIN - Exactly opposite from what hilarious internet lawyers here on the Org have predicted.

Here is the source of this news:

https://www.npr.org/2019/...sanctioned

did i say the case would be dismissed? I think I said in a topic that motions to dismiss allmost always happen and are often denied.

I think I warned abut this kind of thing and how it can lead to other cases that maybe you would not be so happy about. (like the cases involving the convention maga hat kids)

So if you are talking about me please provided support that I have ever said what you are claiming.

No one is coming for your abortion: they just want common-sense abortion regulations: background checks, waiting periods, lifetime limits, take a class, and a small tax.
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Reply #52 posted 06/20/19 1:15pm

RodeoSchro

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djThunderfunk said:

RodeoSchro said:




Pards, I'm not the one who said it happens "every day" and then refused to provide any proof that it does.

That would be you.

Seriously - you've said it happens and happens with regularity. Prove it. Or, I guess, change your statement to you think it happens all the time, but you don't know for sure.

And to be perfectly clear: I'm referring to your statement that people set up others by sending them child porn. Let's see what you've got. You're a smart guy, you can probably figure out a way to research this without having to enter dubious search phrases.


Yeah, not going to google that. So, if that's your measure, then take the win, brightboy.




Thank you, I will -seeing as how I was right when I called you out on your bullshit and you failed to prove your claim.

Winner winner, chicken dinner!

Second Funkiest White Man in America

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Reply #53 posted 06/20/19 1:15pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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RodeoSchro said:

Y'all have probably guessed what the next step is but in case you haven't, here is what's going to happen:

The FBI will figure out who sent the kiddie porn to that fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex Jones.

And then the FBI will examine every electronic device that fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex Jones has, looking to see if that fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex Jones had ever communicated in any way with anyone determined to have sent the porn.

God help that fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex Jones is there is even ONE such communication like that. Because if there is, he is completely and absolutely toast.

maybe he will pull a hillary and put a bunch of devices in a microwave or something and the melt them! Yeah! Nothinng wrong there! Right?

No one is coming for your abortion: they just want common-sense abortion regulations: background checks, waiting periods, lifetime limits, take a class, and a small tax.
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Reply #54 posted 06/20/19 1:17pm

djThunderfunk

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RodeoSchro said:

djThunderfunk said:


Yeah, not going to google that. So, if that's your measure, then take the win, brightboy.




Thank you, I will -seeing as how I was right when I called you out on your bullshit and you failed to prove your claim.

Winner winner, chicken dinner!


Wow.... lol

REEFER MADNESS!
Joe Biden still thinks marijuana is a gateway drug:
https://www.businessinsid...t-2019-11/
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Reply #55 posted 06/20/19 1:22pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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I will say I do not much about what he was alleged to have said... I will say the more he said about personal information...such as names... or of he showed photos... then there is a better case to be made.

Defamation is a funny thing. As it is not just what was said but how people reacted...the rationality of the responses is not all that important... just what the reaction was and how it impacted the person's named or otherwise Identified but there is a limit.


No one is coming for your abortion: they just want common-sense abortion regulations: background checks, waiting periods, lifetime limits, take a class, and a small tax.
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Reply #56 posted 06/20/19 1:45pm

RodeoSchro

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

I will say I do not much about what he was alleged to have said... I will say the more he said about personal information...such as names... or of he showed photos... then there is a better case to be made.

Defamation is a funny thing. As it is not just what was said but how people reacted...the rationality of the responses is not all that important... just what the reaction was and how it impacted the person's named or otherwise Identified but there is a limit.





You like playing a lawyer on the internet. Try this on for size:

The sanctions that fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex Jones received include taking away from him any further attempts to have this case dismissed.

Ever heard of a sanction that severe? Much less not against an attorney, but against a defendant?

I would recommend that before commenting further, you ead up on this case; the allegations against that fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex Jones; and the recent developments regarding that fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex Jones and child porn.

Getting up to speed on this will probably change the flavor and tone of your posts re: that fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex Jones.

Second Funkiest White Man in America

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Reply #57 posted 06/20/19 2:28pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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RodeoSchro said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

I will say I do not much about what he was alleged to have said... I will say the more he said about personal information...such as names... or of he showed photos... then there is a better case to be made.

Defamation is a funny thing. As it is not just what was said but how people reacted...the rationality of the responses is not all that important... just what the reaction was and how it impacted the person's named or otherwise Identified but there is a limit.





You like playing a lawyer on the internet. Try this on for size:

The sanctions that fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex Jones received include taking away from him any further attempts to have this case dismissed.

Ever heard of a sanction that severe? Much less not against an attorney, but against a defendant?

I would recommend that before commenting further, you ead up on this case; the allegations against that fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex Jones; and the recent developments regarding that fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex Jones and child porn.

Getting up to speed on this will probably change the flavor and tone of your posts re: that fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex Jones.

I susspect that such sactions are common...

No one is coming for your abortion: they just want common-sense abortion regulations: background checks, waiting periods, lifetime limits, take a class, and a small tax.
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Reply #58 posted 06/20/19 2:43pm

RodeoSchro

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

RodeoSchro said:




You like playing a lawyer on the internet. Try this on for size:

The sanctions that fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex Jones received include taking away from him any further attempts to have this case dismissed.

Ever heard of a sanction that severe? Much less not against an attorney, but against a defendant?

I would recommend that before commenting further, you ead up on this case; the allegations against that fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex Jones; and the recent developments regarding that fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex Jones and child porn.

Getting up to speed on this will probably change the flavor and tone of your posts re: that fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex Jones.

I susspect that such sactions are common...



You have no idea how wrong you are. In fact, you could not be more wrong if you tried.

Second Funkiest White Man in America

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Reply #59 posted 06/21/19 12:14pm

RodeoSchro

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That fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex Jones is appealing the sanctions placed upon him earlier this week. The main defense used by that fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex Jones is that he was "enraged" when he ranted at the plaintiffs' attorneys and blamed them for sending him kiddie porn, repeatedly punched a picture of attorney Chris Mattei, and offered a $1 million bounty for Mattei's head on a pike.

falloff

Let's just recap a few things, shall we?

That fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex Jones claimed the murders of 26 people - 20 of which were children - never happened.

Then after he got his fat ass sued, that fat fuck/possible pedophile said in his deposition that ihe must have been under the spell of some kind of "psychosis" when he said that, because he'd been conditioned to think everything was phony. Yes, that was his defense.

A few days ago, that fat fuck/possible pedophile produced electronic documents to the plaintiffs which contained child porn. Now, that fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex Jones says the kiddie porn was imbedded in "secret links" which had to be "scanned" to be found. So the apologists of that fat fuck/possible pedophile here want you to believe that: (1) someone tried to set up that fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex Jones, by (2) sending that fat fuck/possible pedophile emails with "secret links" in them that apparently could only be found by "scanning" them.

Let's stop right here. That is the STUPIDEST defense of that fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex Jones that one could imagine. Our Org apologists want us to believe that someone tried to set that fat fuck/possible pedophile up, using a method so secret that that fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex Jones didn't even know there was kiddie porn on the emails.

Doesn't that defeat the purpose?

Keep in mind - if there really was someone out there trying to set up that fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex Jones, that person would have no way of knowing that the big kiddie porn reveal would be accomplished only because that fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex Jones forwarded the emails to an entity that could actually find the "secret links".

If you were trying to set up that fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex Jones, you would: (A) make the links easy to find, click and open; and (B) make an anonymous call to the FBI, telling them that you have it on good authority that fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex Jones has child pornography in his email inbox.

Neither of those things happened, as far as we know from the words of that fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex Jones.

It doesn't seem logical that someone whose goal was to set up that fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex Jones would choose a method that was so sophisticated that the child porn was only found by accident, through an unforeeable process.

I have to believe that fat fuck/possible pedophile Alex Jones is in a very serious amount of very serious trouble.

Second Funkiest White Man in America

P&R's Palladin
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