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Reply #60 posted 06/10/19 8:50am

poppys

2freaky4church1 said:

Love watching you partisan hacks throw spit balls. Dry because you have no spit.


Kudos to you - so above it all. Meanwhile, your vote did not count last presidential election. You didn't even 'Hold your nose and vote for Hillary' - Chomsky.

politics: the art or science of government.
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Reply #61 posted 06/10/19 9:01am

OnlyNDaUsa

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poppys said:

2freaky4church1 said:

Love watching you partisan hacks throw spit balls. Dry because you have no spit.


Kudos to you - so above it all. Meanwhile, your vote did not count last presidential election. You didn't even 'Hold your nose and vote for Hillary' - Chomsky.

you act like she was any better morally or in terms of honesty that trump... can you not even admit she had some very big issues?

No one is coming for your abortion: they just want common-sense abortion regulations: background checks, waiting periods, lifetime limits, take a class, and a small tax.
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Reply #62 posted 06/10/19 9:03am

jjhunsecker

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guitarslinger44 said:



jjhunsecker said:




guitarslinger44 said:


jjhunsecker said: I don't think that's an apt comparison at all. But if we want to go there, Obama probably qualifies more than Trump does considering all the people who were killed as a result of the drone strikes he ordered. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Then what about Bush, who started these wars under false pretenses ?



My point is that being "influential" has no moral value whatsoever, that many types of leaders are "influential"....I wasn't directly comparing Trump to Hitler or Stalin , (though Trump would LOVE to be a Putin-like figure in America).




I think the advantage Bush II has is that it's pretty well known that he was deeply incompetent and that Cheney was the one REALLY running the show. Everyone thinks Cheney is a soulless piece of shit, whereas Bush is kind of a likeable guy even though he perpetrated a lot of really really bad things. Obama is a smart guy and maybe he got himself in way over his head in some areas, but generally, he's looked at favorably and is considered one of the most popular politicians of our time who did some really good things despite his crimes.



I look at those years as BushCheney- with them as one entity.

The difference is that I consider Bush a bad PRESIDENT who did bad things
Trump is just a BAD MAN, in every single way, with no redeeming qualities whatsoever
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Reply #63 posted 06/10/19 9:07am

guitarslinger4
4

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jjhunsecker said:

guitarslinger44 said:


I think the advantage Bush II has is that it's pretty well known that he was deeply incompetent and that Cheney was the one REALLY running the show. Everyone thinks Cheney is a soulless piece of shit, whereas Bush is kind of a likeable guy even though he perpetrated a lot of really really bad things. Obama is a smart guy and maybe he got himself in way over his head in some areas, but generally, he's looked at favorably and is considered one of the most popular politicians of our time who did some really good things despite his crimes.

I look at those years as BushCheney- with them as one entity. The difference is that I consider Bush a bad PRESIDENT who did bad things Trump is just a BAD MAN, in every single way, with no redeeming qualities whatsoever


Oh, I agree, Bush was a terrible president, the man had no business being in the Oval. Trump is a bad man, but in an era where every politician buffs and polishes out all their edges, Trump was someone people saw as "real" for better or worse.

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Reply #64 posted 06/10/19 2:36pm

2freaky4church
1

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Cheney pulled the strings. Bush just ate pretsels and watched baseball.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #65 posted 06/10/19 2:37pm

2freaky4church
1

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I live in Ohio. Trump won easily here.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #66 posted 06/10/19 3:48pm

poppys

2freaky4church1 said:

I live in Ohio. Trump won easily here.


Is this a response to being above voting for someone that might win? Trump won easily in my state too, thanks to the Electoral College. So what? Anyway, if you live in Ohio, you really should know how to spell pretzels.

politics: the art or science of government.
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Reply #67 posted 06/10/19 3:50pm

jjhunsecker

avatar

guitarslinger44 said:



jjhunsecker said:


guitarslinger44 said:



I think the advantage Bush II has is that it's pretty well known that he was deeply incompetent and that Cheney was the one REALLY running the show. Everyone thinks Cheney is a soulless piece of shit, whereas Bush is kind of a likeable guy even though he perpetrated a lot of really really bad things. Obama is a smart guy and maybe he got himself in way over his head in some areas, but generally, he's looked at favorably and is considered one of the most popular politicians of our time who did some really good things despite his crimes.



I look at those years as BushCheney- with them as one entity. The difference is that I consider Bush a bad PRESIDENT who did bad things Trump is just a BAD MAN, in every single way, with no redeeming qualities whatsoever


Oh, I agree, Bush was a terrible president, the man had no business being in the Oval. Trump is a bad man, but in an era where every politician buffs and polishes out all their edges, Trump was someone people saw as "real" for better or worse.



I too saw him as "real"- a real scumbag and crook and piece of shit...

If that's the type of man that Conservatives and Republicans want for a leader, then God help them
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Reply #68 posted 06/10/19 3:56pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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poppys said:

2freaky4church1 said:

I live in Ohio. Trump won easily here.


Is this a response to being above voting for someone that might win? Trump won easily in my state too, thanks to the Electoral College. So what? Anyway, if you live in Ohio, you really should know how to spell pretzels.

not sure what your point is but I will say the reason we have trump is because there were too many reps running against him... if they would have gotten over themselves and all but one dropped out to go head to head against trump... So yes the Dems candidates need to work this out and be united.

I think the active party members should pick... no voteing....

No one is coming for your abortion: they just want common-sense abortion regulations: background checks, waiting periods, lifetime limits, take a class, and a small tax.
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Reply #69 posted 06/10/19 4:32pm

guitarslinger4
4

avatar

jjhunsecker said:

guitarslinger44 said:



jjhunsecker said:


guitarslinger44 said:



I think the advantage Bush II has is that it's pretty well known that he was deeply incompetent and that Cheney was the one REALLY running the show. Everyone thinks Cheney is a soulless piece of shit, whereas Bush is kind of a likeable guy even though he perpetrated a lot of really really bad things. Obama is a smart guy and maybe he got himself in way over his head in some areas, but generally, he's looked at favorably and is considered one of the most popular politicians of our time who did some really good things despite his crimes.



I look at those years as BushCheney- with them as one entity. The difference is that I consider Bush a bad PRESIDENT who did bad things Trump is just a BAD MAN, in every single way, with no redeeming qualities whatsoever


Oh, I agree, Bush was a terrible president, the man had no business being in the Oval. Trump is a bad man, but in an era where every politician buffs and polishes out all their edges, Trump was someone people saw as "real" for better or worse.



I too saw him as "real"- a real scumbag and crook and piece of shit...

If that's the type of man that Conservatives and Republicans want for a leader, then God help them


I don't think as many of them really wanted him as you might think, but they didn't want Hillary more.
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Reply #70 posted 06/10/19 4:59pm

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

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guitarslinger44 said:

jjhunsecker said:



I too saw him as "real"- a real scumbag and crook and piece of shit...

If that's the type of man that Conservatives and Republicans want for a leader, then God help them


I don't think as many of them really wanted him as you might think, but they didn't want Hillary more.


You forget Hillary won the actual popular vote and by the largest margin ever for a an electorate college win.
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Reply #71 posted 06/10/19 5:26pm

jjhunsecker

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Ugot2shakesumthin said:

guitarslinger44 said:



I don't think as many of them really wanted him as you might think, but they didn't want Hillary more.


You forget Hillary won the actual popular vote and by the largest margin ever for a an electorate college win.


True, three million more American voters chose Clinton
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Reply #72 posted 06/11/19 9:00am

guitarslinger4
4

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Ugot2shakesumthin said:

guitarslinger44 said:
I don't think as many of them really wanted him as you might think, but they didn't want Hillary more.
You forget Hillary won the actual popular vote and by the largest margin ever for a an electorate college win.


I've heard it said that if all the people who are eligiable to vote but didn't actually went to the polls, Hillary wouldn't have won the popular vote either.

It doesn't matter either way though. Resorting to "well, she won the popular vote" is just another excuse for losing. She was a bad candidate and she never should have been running, and if the Dems think Biden is going to beat Trump, they're delusional.

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Reply #73 posted 06/11/19 9:06am

jjhunsecker

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guitarslinger44 said:



Ugot2shakesumthin said:


guitarslinger44 said:
I don't think as many of them really wanted him as you might think, but they didn't want Hillary more.

You forget Hillary won the actual popular vote and by the largest margin ever for a an electorate college win.


I've heard it said that if all the people who are eligiable to vote but didn't actually went to the polls, Hillary wouldn't have won the popular vote either.

It doesn't matter either way though. Resorting to "well, she won the popular vote" is just another excuse for losing. She was a bad candidate and she never should have been running, and if the Dems think Biden is going to beat Trump, they're delusional.



It's not an excuse, it's a fact. More voters chose her
And of course the outmoded Electoral College system played its part... but I'm not getting into that issue again
[Edited 6/11/19 9:12am]
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Reply #74 posted 06/11/19 9:10am

guitarslinger4
4

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jjhunsecker said:

guitarslinger44 said:


I've heard it said that if all the people who are eligiable to vote but didn't actually went to the polls, Hillary wouldn't have won the popular vote either.

It doesn't matter either way though. Resorting to "well, she won the popular vote" is just another excuse for losing. She was a bad candidate and she never should have been running, and if the Dems think Biden is going to beat Trump, they're delusional.

It's not an excuse, it's a fact. More voters chose her


Well, that isn't how the game is played at a presidential level, so it doesn't matter if they did. Bringing it up over and over again just seems like sour grapes.

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Reply #75 posted 06/11/19 9:15am

OnlyNDaUsa

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jjhunsecker said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:
You forget Hillary won the actual popular vote and by the largest margin ever for a an electorate college win.
True, three million more American voters chose Clinton

you mean more voted for electors in a state. Also if not for the electoral system elections and campaigns would be different. What many hillary lovers fail to graps or admit to is they are applying a fallacy of "all other things being equal" to issues they support. Like this: you seem to assume that if we had mob rule that hillary would be president as all the votes would have been the same... Now you and other seem to want to change the rules...just like al gore tried to do...

also do not forget that you have ZERO Federal right to vote for president... and I HOPE that never CHANGes....

No one is coming for your abortion: they just want common-sense abortion regulations: background checks, waiting periods, lifetime limits, take a class, and a small tax.
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Reply #76 posted 06/11/19 9:38am

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

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OnlyNDaUsa said:



jjhunsecker said:


Ugot2shakesumthin said:
You forget Hillary won the actual popular vote and by the largest margin ever for a an electorate college win.

True, three million more American voters chose Clinton



you mean more voted for electors in a state. Also if not for the electoral system elections and campaigns would be different. What many hillary lovers fail to graps or admit to is they are applying a fallacy of "all other things being equal" to issues they support. Like this: you seem to assume that if we had mob rule that hillary would be president as all the votes would have been the same... Now you and other seem to want to change the rules...just like al gore tried to do...

also do not forget that you have ZERO Federal right to vote for president... and I HOPE that never CHANGes....




Apologist alert!

None of this matters anyway as we work under an electoral college. A loss is a loss and she lost.

Hillary lost. That's all.

The only reason this was brought up was because guitars linger brought up that ”the people” themselves liked Hillary less than Turd, which is false.
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Reply #77 posted 06/11/19 9:58am

OnlyNDaUsa

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Ugot2shakesumthin said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

you mean more voted for electors in a state. Also if not for the electoral system elections and campaigns would be different. What many hillary lovers fail to graps or admit to is they are applying a fallacy of "all other things being equal" to issues they support. Like this: you seem to assume that if we had mob rule that hillary would be president as all the votes would have been the same... Now you and other seem to want to change the rules...just like al gore tried to do...

also do not forget that you have ZERO Federal right to vote for president... and I HOPE that never CHANGes....

Apologist alert! None of this matters anyway as we work under an electoral college. A loss is a loss and she lost. Hillary lost. That's all. The only reason this was brought up was because guitars linger brought up that ”the people” themselves liked Hillary less than Turd, which is false.

you do not know that... we do not know either way...

No one is coming for your abortion: they just want common-sense abortion regulations: background checks, waiting periods, lifetime limits, take a class, and a small tax.
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Reply #78 posted 06/11/19 10:00am

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

avatar

OnlyNDaUsa said:



Ugot2shakesumthin said:


OnlyNDaUsa said:




you mean more voted for electors in a state. Also if not for the electoral system elections and campaigns would be different. What many hillary lovers fail to graps or admit to is they are applying a fallacy of "all other things being equal" to issues they support. Like this: you seem to assume that if we had mob rule that hillary would be president as all the votes would have been the same... Now you and other seem to want to change the rules...just like al gore tried to do...

also do not forget that you have ZERO Federal right to vote for president... and I HOPE that never CHANGes....



Apologist alert! None of this matters anyway as we work under an electoral college. A loss is a loss and she lost. Hillary lost. That's all. The only reason this was brought up was because guitars linger brought up that ”the people” themselves liked Hillary less than Turd, which is false.


you do not know that... we do not know either way...



Of actual voters, 4 million people more. We do that.
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Reply #79 posted 06/11/19 10:10am

OnlyNDaUsa

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Ugot2shakesumthin said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

you do not know that... we do not know either way...

Of actual voters, 4 million people more. We do that.

fallacy... flawed... you mean of the people that voted... not of all the people. As to the polls the last polls *as were most* within the margin of error. In fact she got nearly the same support.

not to mention that of the last 10 elections the Democrat got the majority of popular support twice.... and Reps got it (which is not much better) 4 times...

No one is coming for your abortion: they just want common-sense abortion regulations: background checks, waiting periods, lifetime limits, take a class, and a small tax.
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Reply #80 posted 06/11/19 10:10am

jjhunsecker

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Ugot2shakesumthin said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:



Ugot2shakesumthin said:


OnlyNDaUsa said:




you mean more voted for electors in a state. Also if not for the electoral system elections and campaigns would be different. What many hillary lovers fail to graps or admit to is they are applying a fallacy of "all other things being equal" to issues they support. Like this: you seem to assume that if we had mob rule that hillary would be president as all the votes would have been the same... Now you and other seem to want to change the rules...just like al gore tried to do...

also do not forget that you have ZERO Federal right to vote for president... and I HOPE that never CHANGes....



Apologist alert! None of this matters anyway as we work under an electoral college. A loss is a loss and she lost. Hillary lost. That's all. The only reason this was brought up was because guitars linger brought up that ”the people” themselves liked Hillary less than Turd, which is false.


you do not know that... we do not know either way...



Of actual voters, 4 million people more. We do that.


Right. We know the exact number of votes cast by American voters for each candidate
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Reply #81 posted 06/11/19 10:16am

guitarslinger4
4

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Ugot2shakesumthin said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:



jjhunsecker said:


Ugot2shakesumthin said:
You forget Hillary won the actual popular vote and by the largest margin ever for a an electorate college win.

True, three million more American voters chose Clinton



you mean more voted for electors in a state. Also if not for the electoral system elections and campaigns would be different. What many hillary lovers fail to graps or admit to is they are applying a fallacy of "all other things being equal" to issues they support. Like this: you seem to assume that if we had mob rule that hillary would be president as all the votes would have been the same... Now you and other seem to want to change the rules...just like al gore tried to do...

also do not forget that you have ZERO Federal right to vote for president... and I HOPE that never CHANGes....




Apologist alert!

None of this matters anyway as we work under an electoral college. A loss is a loss and she lost.

Hillary lost. That's all.

The only reason this was brought up was because guitars linger brought up that ”the people” themselves liked Hillary less than Turd, which is false.



Way to take what I said completely out of context. Though even on the left, this whole thing about having to hold your nose while you vote for Hillary is pretty telling. Even a lot of the people voting for her didn't like her.
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Reply #82 posted 06/11/19 10:19am

OnlyNDaUsa

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jjhunsecker said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:
Of actual voters, 4 million people more. We do that.
Right. We know the exact number of votes cast by American voters for each candidate

Yup and trump got the most!

Trump got 304 (which is funny if you know 20 year old slang)

hillary got 227 (loser)

Colin Powell 3 (cool)

John Kasich 1 (okay)

Ron Paul 1 (he's still alive?)

Bernie Sanders 1 ( He needs it to get his flux capacitor fixed)

Faith Spotted Eagle 1 (now this is cool! How cool is it that someone's granmother got a vote for president!)

No one is coming for your abortion: they just want common-sense abortion regulations: background checks, waiting periods, lifetime limits, take a class, and a small tax.
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Reply #83 posted 06/11/19 10:21am

jjhunsecker

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The Democrats won the majority or plurity of the popular vote in every election since Bill Clinton in 1992 except for Bush in 2004
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Reply #84 posted 06/11/19 10:26am

2freaky4church
1

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Where the fuck is my Crowder thread?

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #85 posted 06/11/19 10:29am

poppys

Ugot2shakesumthin said:


Apologist alert! None of this matters anyway as we work under an electoral college. A loss is a loss and she lost. Hillary lost. That's all. The only reason this was brought up was because guitars linger brought up that ”the people” themselves liked Hillary less than Turd, which is false.


The fact that HRC won the popular vote does matter. Many states are trying to legislate away the EC. There is a thread on it.

I brought in the quote Hold your nose and vote for Hillary because 2freak with his Chomsky worship and all the "intellectual" labels", brags that he's better than others here. Voting for a 3rd party candidate in 2016 was throwing your vote away. Trump won the Electoral College by 77,000 votes in 3 states. However anyone votes is up to them, saying you're better is debatable.

[Edited 6/11/19 11:09am]

politics: the art or science of government.
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Reply #86 posted 06/11/19 10:43am

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

avatar

2freaky4church1 said:

Where the fuck is my Crowder thread?



Sorry about that freaky we kinda highjackec your thread. Sorry about that.
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Reply #87 posted 06/11/19 11:04am

jjhunsecker

avatar

guitarslinger44 said:



jjhunsecker said:


guitarslinger44 said:



I've heard it said that if all the people who are eligiable to vote but didn't actually went to the polls, Hillary wouldn't have won the popular vote either.

It doesn't matter either way though. Resorting to "well, she won the popular vote" is just another excuse for losing. She was a bad candidate and she never should have been running, and if the Dems think Biden is going to beat Trump, they're delusional.



It's not an excuse, it's a fact. More voters chose her


Well, that isn't how the game is played at a presidential level, so it doesn't matter if they did. Bringing it up over and over again just seems like sour grapes.



The Electoral College is a zero sum game- when you overvalue some voters, it automatically undervalues other voters
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Reply #88 posted 06/11/19 11:13am

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

avatar

jjhunsecker said:

guitarslinger44 said:



jjhunsecker said:


guitarslinger44 said:



I've heard it said that if all the people who are eligiable to vote but didn't actually went to the polls, Hillary wouldn't have won the popular vote either.

It doesn't matter either way though. Resorting to "well, she won the popular vote" is just another excuse for losing. She was a bad candidate and she never should have been running, and if the Dems think Biden is going to beat Trump, they're delusional.



It's not an excuse, it's a fact. More voters chose her


Well, that isn't how the game is played at a presidential level, so it doesn't matter if they did. Bringing it up over and over again just seems like sour grapes.



The Electoral College is a zero sum game- when you overvalue some voters, it automatically undervalues other voters


Granted it did serve a purpose at one point time giving under represented states a voice rather than being drowned out by the will of the more populated states. It served its purpose. But today I think it’s the other way around and it gives these states far more sway in the elections. I think a fair compromise can be implemented.
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Reply #89 posted 06/11/19 11:15am

OnlyNDaUsa

avatar

jjhunsecker said:

guitarslinger44 said:


Well, that isn't how the game is played at a presidential level, so it doesn't matter if they did. Bringing it up over and over again just seems like sour grapes.

The Electoral College is a zero sum game- when you overvalue some voters, it automatically undervalues other voters

"zero sum game" why do you keep using that term? I do not think it means what you think it means...

No one is coming for your abortion: they just want common-sense abortion regulations: background checks, waiting periods, lifetime limits, take a class, and a small tax.
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