SuperFurryAnimal said:

PennyPurple said:

Trump was to the point he was afraid they would poison or murder him. I bet when he made that comment he was eating McDonalds bought randomly to protect himself from being poisoned by operatives. The media are the ones to blame for helping to destroy Americas confidence, the Russians wanted to interfere and for two years all we heard is they had the goods on Trump. They didn't have collusion on Trump. Lies, lies and more lies from CNN they should be investigated.

Nope, because he said it was the end of his presidency, not the end of his life. My take away from that comment is that Trump knows he has committed crimes in the past, there are things he has done that are shady, cut corners to save a buck, make a buck. And he was concerned that Mueller would find about those shady deals and the criminal acts. I don't think he was thinking about Russia or collusion, he's just not smart enough. I think he was worried about all the other crimes he's committed in his life. That's why he wanted his finances kept out of it, that's why he wanted the investigation ended. I think the money laundering at Trump Towers when he kept selling these condos to Russians for high prices, and they sat empty, was one such crime he was scared about seeing the light of day.

benni said:

SuperFurryAnimal said:

benni said:

Nope, because he said it was the end of his presidency, not the end of his life. My take away from that comment is that Trump knows he has committed crimes in the past, there are things he has done that are shady, cut corners to save a buck, make a buck. And he was concerned that Mueller would find about those shady deals and the criminal acts. I don't think he was thinking about Russia or collusion, he's just not smart enough. I think he was worried about all the other crimes he's committed in his life. That's why he wanted his finances kept out of it, that's why he wanted the investigation ended. I think the money laundering at Trump Towers when he kept selling these condos to Russians for high prices, and they sat empty, was one such crime he was scared about seeing the light of day.

They found no Russia Collusion. Somehow Trump continues to escape what JFK could not escape.

That's not quite what the report said Super. The report stated that Trump and his campaign had lied to investigators, destroyed evidence, etc., and that the investigation could not establish that Trump's campaign conspired or coordinated with Russia, but that they may have been able to establish that they had with the evidence that was destroyed. He meant that there was insufficient evidence to allow his office “to reach a conclusion with confidence”—not that there was no evidence whatsoever of conspiracy or cooperation, let alone that there was evidence demonstrating a lack of coordination.

As for obstruction, Mueller says in his report that he decided not to make a finding about whether the President’s actions constituted obstruction because the policy of the Department of Justice wouldn’t allow a criminal prosecution of the President while he was in office, and so therefore the President wouldn’t have an opportunity to clear his name. On the other hand, if the evidence allowed a conclusion that the President didn’t obstruct justice, Mueller said he thought it would be appropriate for him to say so. But the evidence, in Mueller’s view, didn’tallow that conclusion—because there’s lots of evidence that suggests Trump may in fact have obstructed justice.

In fact, Mueller said his investigation “found multiple acts by the P that were capable of exerting undue influence over law enforcement investigations,” efforts that were “mostly unsuccessful” only because his subordinates “declined to carry out his orders or accede to his requests.” And it’s very hard to read Mueller’s description of the evidence he collected without concluding that the President did, in fact, try to obstruct justice—by, among other things, pressuring the FBI to drop the criminal investigation of former National Security Advisor Michael Flynn; trying to fire the Special Counsel; trying to get former White House Counsel Don McGann to lie about efforts to fire the Special Counsel; trying to limit the scope of the investigation into election interference by the Russians; and pressuring witnesses not to cooperate with federal investigators. It’s a pretty damning bill of particulars.

He even spelled out in his report how Congress could go about impeachment proceedings, and how Trump could face criminal charges once he was no longer in office. But that the DOJ policy, would not allow Trump to face any criminal charges while he was president.

[Edited 4/21/19 7:07am]

SuperFurryAnimal said:

This is what Obama did. He completely ignored sharing info with Trump that the Russians were trying to interfere with American politics. They were trying to get to Trump??? Instead he wire tapped the Trump campaign because that is what you do with your political enemies when you are Nazi like.

That's not quite true, either, Super:

https://www.nbcnews.com/n...gn-n830596

In the weeks after he became the Republican nominee on July 19, 2016, Donald Trump was warned that foreign adversaries, including Russia, would probably try to spy on and infiltrate his campaign, according to multiple government officials familiar with the matter.

The warning came in the form of a high-level counterintelligence briefing by senior FBI officials, the officials said. A similar briefing was given to Hillary Clinton, they added. They said the briefings, which are commonly provided to presidential nominees, were designed to educate the candidates and their top aides about potential threats from foreign spies.

The candidates were urged to alert the FBI about any suspicious overtures to their campaigns, the officials said.

https://www.nbcnews.com/p...ia-n670186

Article from October 2016, which clearly shows he had been informed that Russia was trying to interfer in our election, and he refused to listen.

"Our country has no idea," who is doing the hacking, the Republican nominee said during the final presidential debate, after Hillary Clinton challenged him to accept the conclusion of the CIA and other agencies that the Russian government was behind the leaks of internal Democratic emails.

When moderator Chris Wallace pressed Trump on whether he was disputing the assessment from U.S. intelligence officials, he replied, "Yeah, I doubt it. I doubt it."

Clinton responded, "He’d rather believe [Russian president] Vladimir Putin than the military and civilian intelligence professionals who are sworn to protect us."

The exchange marked the third time in three debates that Trump has disputed the idea of Russian involvement in the election hacks. It’s extremely unusual for a mainstream presidential candidate to rebuff the public conclusions of U.S. intelligence agencies, which are staffed mainly by non-partisan civil servants.

In the deleted thread the conspiracy theorists were following the lead of their mental masters and swallowing the absurd idea that William Barr had misrepresented Mueller's report. Now that's been exposed as bullshit. Mueller did indeed find no evidence of collusion and there are no further charges to be brought.
I posted this Glenn Greenwald clip in the deleted thread and I'll post it here again. The liars and zealots who bombarded us all with this fake story for three years should be held to account and Glenn does that brilliantly in this clip.

midnightmover said:

In the deleted thread the conspiracy theorists were following the lead of their mental masters and swallowing the absurd idea that William Barr had misrepresented Mueller's report. Now that's been exposed as bullshit. Mueller did indeed find no evidence of collusion and there are no further charges to be brought.
I posted this Glenn Greenwald clip in the deleted thread and I'll post it here again. The liars and zealots who bombarded us all with this fake story for three years should be held to account and Glenn does that brilliantly in this clip.

Again, none of that is true, that Mueller did not find any evidence. There was just not enough evidence to move it beyond a "reasonable doubt". But if he'd had the evidence that the Trump campaign destroyed, he might have been able to. Also Barr DID misrepresent Mueller's report. I won't argue with you about this or debate it, because the facts support what I've stated.


https://www.vox.com/2019/...ordination

benni said:

midnightmover said:

In the deleted thread the conspiracy theorists were following the lead of their mental masters and swallowing the absurd idea that William Barr had misrepresented Mueller's report. Now that's been exposed as bullshit. Mueller did indeed find no evidence of collusion and there are no further charges to be brought.
I posted this Glenn Greenwald clip in the deleted thread and I'll post it here again. The liars and zealots who bombarded us all with this fake story for three years should be held to account and Glenn does that brilliantly in this clip.

Again, none of that is true, that Mueller did not find any evidence. There was just not enough evidence to move it beyond a "reasonable doubt". But if he'd had the evidence that the Trump campaign destroyed, he might have been able to. Also Barr DID misrepresent Mueller's report. I won't argue with you about this or debate it, because the facts support what I've stated.


https://www.vox.com/2019/...ordination

Mueller clearly stated that he found no evidence. I realize this is embarrassing for you since you spent three years believing there was loads of evidence - in the exact same way that birthers and 9/11 truthers believed that they had evidence for their conspiracy theories too, when in fact they never did. They just lacked the critical thinking skills necessary to make objective judgements.

You can speculate endlessly about hypothetical evidence that Mueller couldn't find, but that is just more of the empty, fanciful speculation that got you into this mess in the first place. It's not actually based on FACTS. When it comes to FACTS you don't have anything. You never did.

Repeat after me: speculation is not fact. If speculation was fact then anyone could be found guilty of anything.

[Edited 4/21/19 8:12am]

midnightmover said:

benni said:

Again, none of that is true, that Mueller did not find any evidence. There was just not enough evidence to move it beyond a "reasonable doubt". But if he'd had the evidence that the Trump campaign destroyed, he might have been able to. Also Barr DID misrepresent Mueller's report. I won't argue with you about this or debate it, because the facts support what I've stated.


https://www.vox.com/2019/...ordination

Stop lying. Mueller quite clearly stated that he found no evidence. I realize this is embarrassing for you since you spent three years believing there was loads of evidence - in the exact same way that birthers and 9/11 truthers believed that they had evidence for their conspiracy theories too, when in fact they never did. They just lacked the critical thinking skills necessary to make objective judgements.

You can speculate endlessly about hypothetical evidence that Mueller couldn't find, but that is just more of the empty, fanciful speculation that got you into this mess in the first place. It's not actually based on FACTS. When it comes to FACTS you don't have anything. You never did.

Repeat after me: speculation is not fact. If speculation was fact then anyone could be found guilty of anything.

The investigation did not, however, yield evidence sufficient to sustain any charge that any individual affiliated with the Trump Campaign acted as an agent of a foreign principal within the meaning of FARA or, in terms of Section 951, subject to the direction or control of the government of Russia, or any official thereof. In particular, the Office did not find evidence likely to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Campaign officials such as Paul Manafort, George Papadopoulos , and Carter Page acted as agents of the Russian overnrnent-or at its direction control, or re uest-durin the relevant time eriod. 1282 As a result, the Office did not charge any other Trump Campaign official with violating FARA or Section 951, or attempting or conspiring to do so, based on contacts with the Russian government or a Russian principal. Finally , the Office investigated whether one of the above campaign advisors-George Papadopoulos-acted as an agent of, or at the direction and control of, the government of Israel. While the investigation revealed significant ties between Papadopoulos and Israel (and search warrants were obtained in part on that basis), the Office ultimately determined that the evidence was not sufficient to obtain and sustain a conviction under FARA or Section 951.


"Sufficient to sustain" "beyond a reasonable doubt" "was not sufficient to obtain and sustain a conviction" -- None of that says, "No evidence found", it says there was evidence found, just not enough to move it beyond the "reasonable doubt" and obtain a conviction. Try again, as the above was taken directly from the report. If he had found NO evidence, as you claim, then he would have stated, "We found no evidence to supoort the idea of conspiracy or coordination with Russia." That is NOT what Mueller said.

midnightmover said:

benni said:

Again, none of that is true, that Mueller did not find any evidence. There was just not enough evidence to move it beyond a "reasonable doubt". But if he'd had the evidence that the Trump campaign destroyed, he might have been able to. Also Barr DID misrepresent Mueller's report. I won't argue with you about this or debate it, because the facts support what I've stated.


https://www.vox.com/2019/...ordination

Mueller clearly stated that he found no evidence. I realize this is embarrassing for you since you spent three years believing there was loads of evidence - in the exact same way that birthers and 9/11 truthers believed that they had evidence for their conspiracy theories too, when in fact they never did. They just lacked the critical thinking skills necessary to make objective judgements.

You can speculate endlessly about hypothetical evidence that Mueller couldn't find, but that is just more of the empty, fanciful speculation that got you into this mess in the first place. It's not actually based on FACTS. When it comes to FACTS you don't have anything. You never did.

Repeat after me: speculation is not fact. If speculation was fact then anyone could be found guilty of anything.

[Edited 4/21/19 8:12am]

Repeat after me : LOCK THE PUSSY GRABBER UP.

More from the Mueller regarding evidence:


The investigation did not always yield admissible information or testimony, or a complete picture of the activities undertaken by subjects of the investigation. Some individuals invoked their Fifth Amendment right against compelled self-incrimination and were not, in the Office 's judgment, appropriate candidates for grants of immunity. The Office limited its pursuit of other witnesses and information-such as information known to attorneys or individuals claiming to be members of the media-in light of internal Depa11ment of Justice policies. See, e.g., Justice Manual§§ 9-13.400, 13.410. Some of the information obtained via court process, moreover, was presumptively covered by legal privilege and was screened from investigators by a filter ( or "taint") team. Even when individuals testified or agreed to be interviewed, they sometimes provided information that was false or incomplete, leading to some of the false-statements charges described above. And the Office faced practical limits on its ability to access relevant evidence as well-numerous witnesses and subjects lived abroad, and documents were held outside the United States.

Further, the Office learned that some of the individuals we interviewed or whose conduct we investigated-including some associated with the Trump Campaign---deleted relevant communications or communicated during the relevant period using applications that feature encryption or that do not provide for long-term retention of data or communications records. In such cases, the Office was not able to corroborate witness statements through comparison to contemporaneous communications or fully question witnesses about statements that appeared inconsistent with other known facts.

Accordingly, while this report embodies factual and legal determinations that the Office believes to be accurate and complete to the greatest extent possible, given these identified gaps, the Office cannot rule out the possibility that the unavailable information would shed additional light on (or cast in a new light) the events described in the report.

[Edited 4/21/19 8:40am]

Mueller soundly rejected the key elements of the conspiracy theory that you guys have promoted, but yes, he technically didn't say there was no evidence. However, he did not present any evidence. There is still no evidence that has ever been put forward to back up this theory.

Many of the "bombshells" that you guys got so excited about have been firmly debunked in this report (something which you and your mental masters are ignoring). The fact is that after three years of this collusion hysteria and a MASSIVE investigation you got nothing to vindicate your conspiracy theory. Not a single person charged with collusion and no credible evidence ever put forward.

In fact some of the "evidence" put forward is actually evidence in the opposite direction, like the Trump Tower meeting where Trump Jr. met with a Russian lawyer who he falsely believed worked for the Russian government. If he really was working for Russia then he wouldn't have got conned into meeting with a fake, nor would they have set up the meeting on the internet (which the FBI could obviously monitor), and nor would so many Trump officials have attended since that makes it more likely that they would be caught.

But you can't reason with unreasonable people. Nor can you help people who are attached to an entire worldview that is out of line with reality, so I won't waste time trying to educate you. I'll just congratulate you for managing to do something that should be impossible; by promoting this hoax for so long you have actually given Donald Trump the moral high ground. That's quite an achievement. You have also made his chances of re-election much stronger.

If you had any intellectual integrity you would reflect on that.

By the way, it also looks likely that the corrupt oligarch that America installed in Ukraine after the coup there in 2014 is about to be kicked out of office by the Ukrainian people. That's another story that you racist Russia haters got wrong.

benni said:

SuperFurryAnimal said:

This is what Obama did. He completely ignored sharing info with Trump that the Russians were trying to interfere with American politics. They were trying to get to Trump??? Instead he wire tapped the Trump campaign because that is what you do with your political enemies when you are Nazi like.

That's not quite true, either, Super:

https://www.nbcnews.com/n...gn-n830596

In the weeks after he became the Republican nominee on July 19, 2016, Donald Trump was warned that foreign adversaries, including Russia, would probably try to spy on and infiltrate his campaign, according to multiple government officials familiar with the matter.

The warning came in the form of a high-level counterintelligence briefing by senior FBI officials, the officials said. A similar briefing was given to Hillary Clinton, they added. They said the briefings, which are commonly provided to presidential nominees, were designed to educate the candidates and their top aides about potential threats from foreign spies.

The candidates were urged to alert the FBI about any suspicious overtures to their campaigns, the officials said.

Remember when they denied spying/wire tapping Trump. Who was right?

2elijah said:

His legacy is already tarnished.

Split down the middle. 50/50 people want Obama and Clintons locked up. As for Trump it is probably more like 70/30 because clearly no collusion. Trump was the one violated and Illegally spyed on by Obama to help Hillary. Btw. We still remember when Mr Obama would target his enemies with tax audits. We haven't forgot how he illegally spyed on many Americans and how Bush let 9-11 be covered up for Saudi's. We haven't forgot how they funded ISIS. We will never forget 911. Please feel free to move to Mexico 2e and Grey. I'll help you pack.

SuperFurryAnimal said:

benni said:

That's not quite true, either, Super:

https://www.nbcnews.com/n...gn-n830596

In the weeks after he became the Republican nominee on July 19, 2016, Donald Trump was warned that foreign adversaries, including Russia, would probably try to spy on and infiltrate his campaign, according to multiple government officials familiar with the matter.

The warning came in the form of a high-level counterintelligence briefing by senior FBI officials, the officials said. A similar briefing was given to Hillary Clinton, they added. They said the briefings, which are commonly provided to presidential nominees, were designed to educate the candidates and their top aides about potential threats from foreign spies.

The candidates were urged to alert the FBI about any suspicious overtures to their campaigns, the officials said.

Remember when they denied spying/wire tapping Trump. Who was right?

The only good thing about Trump's re-election in 2020 (which the McCarthyists have almost guranteed) is that it will give him ample time to punish those who abused their power both in the intelligence services and the media. That will be some real justice.

Of course if Tulsi Gabbard were elected it's not inconceivable that she too would want to crack some skulls in the "deep state" as well, but that's a long-shot, lol.

midnightmover said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

midnightmover said:

Mueller soundly rejected the key elements of the conspiracy theory that you guys have promoted, but yes, he technically didn't say there was no evidence. However, he did not present any evidence. There is still no evidence that has ever been put forward to back up this theory.

Many of the "bombshells" that you guys got so excited about have been firmly debunked in this report (something which you and your mental masters are ignoring). The fact is that after three years of this collusion hysteria and a MASSIVE investigation you got nothing to vindicate your conspiracy theory. Not a single person charged with collusion and no credible evidence ever put forward.

In fact some of the "evidence" put forward is actually evidence in the opposite direction, like the Trump Tower meeting where Trump Jr. met with a Russian lawyer who he falsely believed worked for the Russian government. If he really was working for Russia then he wouldn't have got conned into meeting with a fake, nor would they have set up the meeting on the internet (which the FBI could obviously monitor), and nor would so many Trump officials have attended since that makes it more likely that they would be caught.

But you can't reason with unreasonable people. Nor can you help people who are attached to an entire worldview that is out of line with reality, so I won't waste time trying to educate you. I'll just congratulate you for managing to do something that should be impossible; by promoting this hoax for so long you have actually given Donald Trump the moral high ground. That's quite an achievement. You have also made his chances of re-election much stronger.

If you had any intellectual integrity you would reflect on that.

You’re confusing Barr and Giuliani with Mueller?

No, not at all. Here's an article from The Intercept that runs through all the Trump-Russia conspiracy theories that just got "obliterated" by Mueller. You'll notice the quotes all come directly from the report. Interesting that none of the conspiracy theorists are apologizing for the fake news they spread.

https://theintercept.com/...ated-them/

Oh Jesus Christ, that breifing Barr gave looked like a hostage video. Rosenstein looked like he just had his balls cut off. I'll give Rod one thing--the dude has poker face.

That useless piece of foreskin, Barr, ain't doing this country any favors. What I don't get is all the focus on this report as if it's the end of the line or something.

There are multiple investigations launched off of this one due to the fact that Mueller's scope was so narrow, and he kept stumbling on more dirt in other avenues, no?


I swear, in 2015 I complained that the battle between Clinton and Bush (who I assumed would be the candidate) was going to be boring as hell. I begged the lords that be to send me another Christine "I'm not a witch" O'donnell or Sarah Palin. I had no clue Trump would come barrolling in and actually win. I should be careful what I ask for.

Lawd, you Republicans are going to offer up a sentient bag of cocaine as your next candidate, aren't you?



...

[Edited 4/21/19 10:26am]

midnightmover said:

Mueller soundly rejected the key elements of the conspiracy theory that you guys have promoted, but yes, he technically didn't say there was no evidence. However, he did not present any evidence. There is still no evidence that has ever been put forward to back up this theory.

Many of the "bombshells" that you guys got so excited about have been firmly debunked in this report (something which you and your mental masters are ignoring). The fact is that after three years of this collusion hysteria and a MASSIVE investigation you got nothing to vindicate your conspiracy theory. Not a single person charged with collusion and no credible evidence ever put forward.

In fact some of the "evidence" put forward is actually evidence in the opposite direction, like the Trump Tower meeting where Trump Jr. met with a Russian lawyer who he falsely believed worked for the Russian government. If he really was working for Russia then he wouldn't have got conned into meeting with a fake, nor would they have set up the meeting on the internet (which the FBI could obviously monitor), and nor would so many Trump officials have attended since that makes it more likely that they would be caught.

But you can't reason with unreasonable people. Nor can you help people who are attached to an entire worldview that is out of line with reality, so I won't waste time trying to educate you. I'll just congratulate you for managing to do something that should be impossible; by promoting this hoax for so long you have actually given Donald Trump the moral high ground. That's quite an achievement. You have also made his chances of re-election much stronger.

If you had any intellectual integrity you would reflect on that.

Actually, he did present evidence:

Evidence of conspiracy or coordination is the legal term Mueller uses instead of “collusion.” On Page 9 of the report, Mueller writes that, “while the investigation identified numerous links between individuals with ties to the Russian government and individuals associated with the Trump Campaign, the evidence was not sufficient to support criminal charges.”

So, there was evidence of conspiracy between the Trump campaign and the Russian government. However, there were two problems.

First, the evidence wasn’t sufficient to bring criminal charges because, as Mueller writes, “the investigation established that several individuals affiliated with the Trump Campaign lied to the Office, and to Congress, about their interactions with Russian-affiliated individuals and related matters. Those lies materially impaired the investigation of Russian interference” (Page 9).

So, according to Mueller, there was evidence, and there’d be more evidence if several Trump campaign officials weren’t liars and perjurers who concealed their conspiring with Russian intelligence officers. That sounds bad. But it doesn’t stop there. There was a second problem.

On Page 10, Mueller writes, “Further, the Office learned that some of the individuals we interviewed or whose conduct we investigated — including some associated with the Trump Campaign — deleted relevant communications or communicated during the relevant period using applications that feature encryption or that do not provide for long-term retention of data or communications records.”

In other words, there would be more evidence, perhaps enough to bring criminal charges, except for the fact that some in the Trump campaign effectively used sophisticated tradecraft to hide their conspiracy. Maybe they aren’t so stupid after all?

Speaking of stupid, Donald Trump Jr. had “direct electronic communications with WikiLeaks during the campaign period” (Page 59). While the cyberoperations division of Russian military intelligence (the GRU) was clandestinely coordinating with WikiLeaks to disseminate candidate Hillary Clinton’s stolen emails to damage her campaign (Page 45), the Republican candidate’s son was either wittingly or unwittingly coordinating with the Russians to interfere with the 2016 election.

SuperFurryAnimal said:

benni said:

SuperFurryAnimal said:

benni said:

That's not quite true, either, Super:

https://www.nbcnews.com/n...gn-n830596

In the weeks after he became the Republican nominee on July 19, 2016, Donald Trump was warned that foreign adversaries, including Russia, would probably try to spy on and infiltrate his campaign, according to multiple government officials familiar with the matter.

The warning came in the form of a high-level counterintelligence briefing by senior FBI officials, the officials said. A similar briefing was given to Hillary Clinton, they added. They said the briefings, which are commonly provided to presidential nominees, were designed to educate the candidates and their top aides about potential threats from foreign spies.

The candidates were urged to alert the FBI about any suspicious overtures to their campaigns, the officials said.

Remember when they denied spying/wire tapping Trump. Who was right?

Please provide evidence to support your claim. There is nothing out there about it except conspiracy theories and there is nothing in Mueller report to even state that Obama "spied/wire tapped" Trump. From everything I can find, that has been completely debunked.

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

benni said: