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Reply #210 posted 04/07/19 10:40pm

Graycap23

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uPtoWnNY said:

For me, reparations is fixing our fucked up segregated education system so inner city kids have the same chance for a quality education like their suburban counterparts. How about fixing the inequities in the criminal justice system, or coming up with creative ways to reduce poverty, create jobs, encourage entrepreneurship?


Asking the opressed how to fix a system created and maintained by the oppressor is asinine.
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Reply #211 posted 04/08/19 5:36am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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Graycap23 said:

2elijah said:

Graycap23 said: I hear you. Best to ignore them. Roll right over their posts like a bulldozer and don’t read or respond to their posts, because their only purpose is to troll and stir nonsense, because they’re usually desperate for a negative response or reaction, moreso than having an actual ‘genuine’ interest or concern in these type topics. [Edited 4/6/19 9:05am]

Yep.

The trolls love responses........they get off on it.

It is always the same hand full of folks.

Like clockwork.

There are only about 20 orgers who take part in Politics & Religion

same handfull of folks

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Try it while you're being strangled
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Reply #212 posted 04/08/19 5:42am

2elijah

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uPtoWnNY said:

For me, reparations is fixing our fucked up segregated education system so inner city kids have the same chance for a quality education like their suburban counterparts. How about fixing the inequities in the criminal justice system, or coming up with creative ways to reduce poverty, create jobs, encourage entrepreneurship?



Those are good suggestions. The Dems who are pledging to incorporate reparations as part of their agenda if elected could use that advice.
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Reply #213 posted 04/08/19 5:47am

2elijah

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Graycap23 said:

uPtoWnNY said:

For me, reparations is fixing our fucked up segregated education system so inner city kids have the same chance for a quality education like their suburban counterparts. How about fixing the inequities in the criminal justice system, or coming up with creative ways to reduce poverty, create jobs, encourage entrepreneurship?


Asking the oppressed how to fix a system created and maintained by the oppressor is asinine.

True, but hopefully the interests in the reparations issue by the Democratic candidates isn't just smoke. It will be interesting to see what plans they have in place for it, if one of them who support it is elected.

Anyway the bill is called HR40. I found this link on it.


https://www.congress.gov/...0/all-info
[Edited 4/8/19 7:00am]
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Reply #214 posted 04/08/19 7:53am

hausofmoi7

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SuperFurryAnimal said:



2elijah said:


Gray, Poppy, I found this vid on Marianne Williamson, 2020 Presidential candidate. I’ve actually never heard of her, before I posted that article yesterday, on the Dem candidates running for the presidency, and their pledges on reparations for descendants of African slaves in this country. Reparations has always been a hot-button issue, in this country, and angers some who don’t feel that descendants of past African and Black American who were enslaved, don’t deserve reparations, but what do you all think about her views on it? I She certainly doesn’t cut corners on the topic, and I find her comments interesting, as she is pretty direct with her views on reparations. My opinion on reparations if it actually goes through is not money, but like you suggested Gray.. no taxes, free education or land. What say you or anyone else on her comments regarding reparations for descendants of African/Black American slaves?


You can get free land in the USA through something called the Homestead Act 2010. You can get free education in USA its called a high school diploma and do good and you get something called a scholarship, something that rewards people in the now for something called hard work (should we do away with that too?). As for zero taxes? how would that help society in the end? Anywho this type of payback and handing out of free, free, free would be the downfall or society as people barely want to work as it is now.



Purpose is an innately human characteristic.
Saying that certain people lack it is dehumanising.
But not only does everyone have a purpose but also an incessant urge to contribute.

Also we live in a society where certain “work” is not monetised, or has no monetary value.
The CEO of Exxon Mobil earns how many billions and what do they contribute to the world?
A single parent raising thier children gets nothing.
But who is contributing more to society?

Also from my experience the laziest people are the most motivated to climb the corporate ladder.
Higher up you go, the less work you do.
That’s the incentive for upward mobility. In addition to the incentive of having power over other people.

Ask the CEO of Exxon Mobil if they were given a pay raise if they would be willing to be a janitor or work on a factory floor?
They wouldn’t.


.
[Edited 4/8/19 8:51am]
“It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #215 posted 04/08/19 8:18am

hausofmoi7

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Never take a person's dignity: it is worth everything to them, and nothing to you -Frank Barron
“It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #216 posted 04/08/19 9:19am

SuperFurryAnim
al

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Graycap23 said:

uPtoWnNY said:

For me, reparations is fixing our fucked up segregated education system so inner city kids have the same chance for a quality education like their suburban counterparts. How about fixing the inequities in the criminal justice system, or coming up with creative ways to reduce poverty, create jobs, encourage entrepreneurship?


Asking the opressed how to fix a system created and maintained by the oppressor is asinine.


How will moving to another country solve it?
What are you outraged about today? CNN has not told you yet?
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Reply #217 posted 04/08/19 9:20am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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SuperFurryAnimal said:

Graycap23 said:
Asking the opressed how to fix a system created and maintained by the oppressor is asinine.
How will moving to another country solve it?

there is no perfect resolve to this

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Try it while you're being strangled
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Reply #218 posted 04/08/19 11:14am

2elijah

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I don’t really agree with his proposal regarding reparations, but willing to hear the proposals of those Democratic candidates who support it.

https://www.google.com/ur...3341798506


Cory Booker to introduce reparations commission bill in the Senate

By Rebecca Buck, CNN
Updated 1:39 PM EDT, Mon April 08, 2019



(CNN) Sen. Cory Booker announced Monday he will take the lead in the Senate on a proposal that would establish a commission to study possible reparations, an idea that has emerged as a key policy question in the 2020 Democratic presidential primary and won broad support from the candidates.

“Such a commission would seek to remedy generations-worth of discrimination as a result of "overt policies fueled by white supremacy and racism that have oppressed African-Americans economically for generations," the New Jersey Democrat said in a statement, in addition to policies "that have ushered millions of Americans into the middle class" but "systematically excluded blacks."


This bill is a way of addressing head-on the persistence of racism, white supremacy and implicit racial bias in our country," Booker added. "It will bring together the best minds to study the issue and propose solutions that will finally begin to right the economic scales of past harms and make sure we are a country where all dignity and humanity is affirmed."


The bill, originally introduced by former Rep. John Conyers of Michigan and currently sponsored in the House by Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee of Texas, has emerged as a key issue for 2020 Democrats -- and an area of consensus. At the National Action Network Conference in New York last week, Rev. Al Sharpton questioned one presidential hopeful after another on the measure and the candidates vouched their support.

Now, Booker seems poised to emerge as the legislative leader on the issue.“

The New Jersey senator has previously vented frustration that the question of reparations has been "reduced to a box to check on a presidential list, when this is so much more of a serious conversation," as he told CNN's Don Lemon during a recent town hall in Orangeburg, South Carolina.

Do I support legislation that is race-conscious about balancing the economic scales?" Booker said. "Not only do I support it, but I have legislation that actually does it."

On the campaign trail, Booker has promoted a "baby bonds" proposal that would give each child a savings account, with money added annually based on a family's wealth -- touting a Columbia University study that concluded such a program would "dramatically reduce racial wealth inequality."

[Edited 4/8/19 11:32am]
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Reply #219 posted 04/08/19 1:37pm

NorthC

^You don't agree? Great! Then you & I agree!
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Reply #220 posted 04/08/19 1:49pm

Graycap23

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OldFriends4Sale said:



SuperFurryAnimal said:


Graycap23 said:
Asking the opressed how to fix a system created and maintained by the oppressor is asinine.

How will moving to another country solve it?



there is no perfect resolve to this


Outlaw systematic racism would go a long way.
FOOLS multiply when WISE Men & Women are silent.
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Reply #221 posted 04/08/19 1:52pm

2elijah

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NorthC said:

^You don't agree? Great! Then you & I agree!

Just to be clear...said I don’t agree with Booker’s proposal for reparations. I didn’t say I didn’t agree with the possibility of reparations. I am waiting to see what the other Dems proposals are regarding reparations.
[Edited 4/8/19 13:58pm]
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Reply #222 posted 04/08/19 2:00pm

poppys

NorthC said:

^You don't agree? Great! Then you & I agree!


The Netherlands is one of the countries that would owe reparations in the Caribbean. Among other places they exploited, like Surinam and other Dutch colonies.

"if you can't clap on the one, then don't clap at all"
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Reply #223 posted 04/08/19 2:07pm

2elijah

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poppys said:



NorthC said:


You don't agree? Great! Then you & I agree!


The Netherlands is one of the countries that would owe reparations in the Caribbean. Among other places they exploited, like Surinam and other Dutch colonies.


That’s true.
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Reply #224 posted 04/08/19 2:57pm

2elijah

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poppys said:



NorthC said:


You don't agree? Great! Then you & I agree!


The Netherlands is one of the countries that would owe reparations in the Caribbean. Among other places they exploited, like Surinam and other Dutch colonies.




On another note, here’s another case of reparations. Australian Aboriginals won a reparations lawsuit:

https://libertywritersafr...tual-loss/
[Edited 4/8/19 15:05pm]
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Reply #225 posted 04/08/19 3:04pm

poppys

2elijah said:

poppys said:


The Netherlands is one of the countries that would owe reparations in the Caribbean. Among other places they exploited, like Surinam and other Dutch colonies.


On another note, here’s another case of reparations. Australian Aboriginals won a reparations lawsuit: https://www.google.com/am...n-win/amp/

Interesting. And not from very long ago either.

...It said the Northern Territory government was to pay $2.53mn in damages to the Ngaliwurru and Nungali groups for an earlier federal court ruling which found the NT government “extinguished” their native title rights when they built infrastructure on their land in the 80s and 90s...

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Reply #226 posted 04/08/19 3:09pm

2elijah

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poppys said:



2elijah said:


poppys said:



The Netherlands is one of the countries that would owe reparations in the Caribbean. Among other places they exploited, like Surinam and other Dutch colonies.



On another note, here’s another case of reparations. Australian Aboriginals won a reparations lawsuit: https://www.google.com/am...n-win/amp/


Interesting. And not from very long ago either.

...It said the Northern Territory government was to pay $2.53mn in damages to the Ngaliwurru and Nungali groups for an earlier federal court ruling which found the NT government “extinguished” their native title rights when they built infrastructure on their land in the 80s and 90s...


I know, so recent.( I changed the link in the original post, but it’s pretty much the same info)


It’s a shame the land was stolen from them in the first place, and not so long ago. It’s their homeland. I’m glad they won the suit. Not to mention the racism many Australian Aborigines had to endure, and the racial prejudice and forced slavery, in the past, Very similar to what many enslaved Africans and Black Americans experienced.

This is why no matter what racism Blacks experience in America, they should not let the frustration of hatred from others, force them to make the decision to leave or allow anyone else to tell them to leave, if they don’t like it. It is our country, and we have every right to stay and fight for the future of our youth, and for those in the past whose rights were stolen from them, by the greed, hate and ignorance of others.


On another note, about the Caribbean, I believe around 2012, some Caribbean islands got together to sue some European countries for reparations. They’re still working on it. They’ve held summits in the U.S. and Europe.

https://www.google.com/ur...8208953579
[Edited 4/8/19 19:16pm]
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Reply #227 posted 04/08/19 3:23pm

2elijah

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poppys said:



NorthC said:


You don't agree? Great! Then you & I agree!


The Netherlands is one of the countries that would owe reparations in the Caribbean. Among other places they exploited, like Surinam and other Dutch colonies.



Seems the reparations issue is global.

https://www.google.com/ur...8208953579
[Edited 4/8/19 15:32pm]
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Reply #228 posted 04/08/19 3:29pm

Pokeno4Money

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

jjhunsecker said:

I generally do ignore them, and refuse to engage with such morons, especially ones who crave the attention ....They are not here to debate rationally (which can and SHOULD be done on any issue), but to just spout off and cause controversy and anger and rancor...

So you call people names... and given your history of using race-based slurs here... one has to ponder what you Really want to say?


I'm shocked at all the Native American slurs directed at Pete in the other thread. This place hasn't changed a bit.

Getting back on topic, this is one weird-ass thread.

From what I can gather, the OP has stated he 1) Wants to be surrounded by only African Americans and 2) Doesn't give a fuck about anybody who isn't an African American and 3) Doesn't know how to go about achieving #1

The answer is really, really simple: Move to somewhere that you feel more comfortable.

People do it all the time.

For the past half century, if undesirables moved into your neighborhood and brought with them crime, drugs, vandalism, robberies, assaults, gangs, etc and they turned their property into a shit hole with trash, graffitti etc, then what do you think the good people who had lived in that neighborhood for many years always wound up doing?

They got the hell out, that's what they did.

That's why, in every major city, there are once-beautiful sections that now you wouldn't want to even pass through - let alone live in.

It's really not a difficult concept. If you don't like where you are, GTFO. shrug

"Never let nasty stalkers disrespect you. They start shit, you finish it. Go down to their level, that's the only way they'll understand. You have to handle things yourself."
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Reply #229 posted 04/08/19 3:52pm

2elijah

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Graycap23 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:



SuperFurryAnimal said:


Graycap23 said:
Asking the opressed how to fix a system created and maintained by the oppressor is asinine.

How will moving to another country solve it?



there is no perfect resolve to this


Outlaw systematic racism would go a long way.

I remember Jane Elliot mentioning that the eradication of generational, white supremacy ideology/teachings, would be a major step, in stamping out racism.

Even during segregation, racists still attacked Black communities. Unfortunately, America is still infected by that generational, racist ideology. After Charlottesville, it’s clear that type of ignorant ideology is still being embraced.
[Edited 4/8/19 16:00pm]
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Reply #230 posted 04/08/19 4:28pm

Graycap23

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2elijah said:

Graycap23 said:
Outlaw systematic racism would go a long way.
I remember Jane Elliot mentioning that the eradication of generational, white supremacy ideology/teachings, would be a major step, in stamping out racism. Even during segregation, racists still attacked Black communities. Unfortunately, America is still infected by that generational, racist ideology. After Charlottesville, it’s clear that type of ignorant ideology is still being embraced. [Edited 4/8/19 16:00pm]

Without that step..........this conversation will remain until the US no longer exist.

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Reply #231 posted 04/08/19 4:45pm

onlyforaminute

SuperFurryAnimal said:

Graycap23 said:


Asking the opressed how to fix a system created and maintained by the oppressor is asinine.


How will moving to another country solve it?



It won't and it's not about solving this country's problems it's about being aware there are options. The more that see that there are more ways to live life the more knowledge that gets shared imho.


People can have dual citizenships and ones citizenship isn't just gone juzt because they leave the country to live and work elsewhere even if they never come back, just pay the taxes that's all it comes down to anyway.



I need to go look and see how the petition for CA to leave the union is going, its been a while.
If you carry the egg basket do not dance.

Do good, then throw it into the sea.

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Reply #232 posted 04/08/19 6:45pm

jjhunsecker

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Pokeno4Money said:



OnlyNDaUsa said:




jjhunsecker said:




I generally do ignore them, and refuse to engage with such morons, especially ones who crave the attention ....They are not here to debate rationally (which can and SHOULD be done on any issue), but to just spout off and cause controversy and anger and rancor...




So you call people names... and given your history of using race-based slurs here... one has to ponder what you Really want to say?




I'm shocked at all the Native American slurs directed at Pete in the other thread. This place hasn't changed a bit.

Getting back on topic, this is one weird-ass thread.

From what I can gather, the OP has stated he 1) Wants to be surrounded by only African Americans and 2) Doesn't give a fuck about anybody who isn't an African American and 3) Doesn't know how to go about achieving #1

The answer is really, really simple: Move to somewhere that you feel more comfortable.

People do it all the time.

For the past half century, if undesirables moved into your neighborhood and brought with them crime, drugs, vandalism, robberies, assaults, gangs, etc and they turned their property into a shit hole with trash, graffitti etc, then what do you think the good people who had lived in that neighborhood for many years always wound up doing?

They got the hell out, that's what they did.

That's why, in every major city, there are once-beautiful sections that now you wouldn't want to even pass through - let alone live in.

It's really not a difficult concept. If you don't like where you are, GTFO. shrug



As opposed to the "Native American slurs" used by Trump??? Which Pete repeatedly said didn't bother him one bit....
[Edited 4/8/19 18:46pm]
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Reply #233 posted 04/08/19 7:12pm

2elijah

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Graycap23 said:



2elijah said:


Graycap23 said:
Outlaw systematic racism would go a long way.

I remember Jane Elliot mentioning that the eradication of generational, white supremacy ideology/teachings, would be a major step, in stamping out racism. Even during segregation, racists still attacked Black communities. Unfortunately, America is still infected by that generational, racist ideology. After Charlottesville, it’s clear that type of ignoant ideology is still being embraced. [Edited 4/8/19 16:00pm]

Without that step.....this conversation will remain until the US no longer exist.


Seems that way. It has to be eradicated by the racial group from which white supremacy ideology was born and taught.
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Reply #234 posted 04/08/19 7:20pm

poppys

uPtoWnNY said:

For me, reparations is fixing our fucked up segregated education system so inner city kids have the same chance for a quality education like their suburban counterparts. How about fixing the inequities in the criminal justice system, or coming up with creative ways to reduce poverty, create jobs, encourage entrepreneurship?


nod All of the above is something this country could actually accomplish and be proud of. Make the world and each day better. This is what I hoped for as a child in the 1960s.

"if you can't clap on the one, then don't clap at all"
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Reply #235 posted 04/08/19 11:56pm

Pokeno4Money

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uPtoWnNY said:

For me, reparations is fixing our fucked up segregated education system so inner city kids have the same chance for a quality education like their suburban counterparts. How about fixing the inequities in the criminal justice system, or coming up with creative ways to reduce poverty, create jobs, encourage entrepreneurship?


You've brought up many excellent points.

Education is the biggest factor IMO. Nearly every successful American, including all races, has one thing in common - they are educated enough to communicate effectively, get along with people, and be productive workers. Without that education, it's tough to go much farther than fast food restaurants and convenience stores no matter how hard they work.

I thought the bussing of inner city kids to suburban and rural schools was a good idea back in the day. Not only did it provide a better education for the inner city kids, but it also taught ALL the kids how to interact and befriend those of different races.

Unfortunately today, inner city schools have become a nightmare. Students are constantly ignoring teachers, being disruptive, disrespecting teachers and even assaulting teachers. As a result, quality teachers are leaving urban schools in droves. And there's no solution to the problem, especially with parents not only condoning the abhorrent behavior but actually encouraging it.

As for reducing poverty, there's a VERY easy solution: Stop having a ton of kids that you can't afford to support. I've posted the numbers many times in the past, the birth rate for those born in poverty is far greater than any other income level. It's completely irresponsible to bring 5 or more children into a world of poverty with the expectation that they don't have to work or save because the government will support them.

"Never let nasty stalkers disrespect you. They start shit, you finish it. Go down to their level, that's the only way they'll understand. You have to handle things yourself."
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Reply #236 posted 04/09/19 4:25am

TweetyV6

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poppys said:

NorthC said:

^You don't agree? Great! Then you & I agree!


The Netherlands is one of the countries that would owe reparations in the Caribbean. Among other places they exploited, like Surinam and other Dutch colonies.


Pffffffffff .... HAHAHAHAHA lol lol
Riiiight....

You mean for the prosperity they brought?

[Edited 4/9/19 4:30am]

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Reply #237 posted 04/09/19 4:49am

2elijah

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TweetyV6 said:



poppys said:




NorthC said:


You don't agree? Great! Then you & I agree!


The Netherlands is one of the countries that would owe reparations in the Caribbean. Among other places they exploited, like Surinam and other Dutch colonies.




Pfffff .... HAHAHAHAHA lol lol
Riiiight....

You mean for the prosperity they brought?

[Edited 4/9/19 4:30am]




Prosperity they brought? You mean ‘bought’ and profited from right? They profited off the backs, blood, sweat, tears of enslaved Africans. Where’d you get your education? According to historical records, the Dutch were the ones who brought the first African slaves to Jamestown, Virginia. The Dutch once owned the island my parents were born in, until they sold it to the United States in 1917 (formerly the Danish West Indies). I’ll leave the rest for you to make the effort to do the research.

But, for now, I’ll just leave this info right here about their involvement with slavery in the Caribbean. This might cure your amnesia and educate you, because sometimes one has to hit naysayers like you, with some knowledge. Plenty of info on that link to refresh your memory. Enjoy. comfort

http://slaveryandremembra.../?id=A0145

SLAVERY AND REMEMBRANCE
Dutch Slave Trade

An excerpt;

“Like other European maritime nations, the Dutch were quick to involve themselves in the transtlantic slave trade. Between 1596 and 1829, the Dutch transported about half a million Africans across the Atlantic. Large numbers were taken to the small islands of Curaçao and St. Eustatius, in the Caribbean.”

(Edited for compliance)

“The Dutch also shipped about a half million Africans to their settlements in Dutch Guiana, notably Suriname, where they worked primarily on sugar plantations. In the eighteenth century, nearly one-in-ten enslaved people in Suriname had fled their brutal working conditions to establish or join maroon communities, in attempts to live beyond the control of the surrounding slave society.”
[Edited 4/9/19 5:24am]
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Reply #238 posted 04/09/19 5:34am

maplenpg

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Pokeno4Money said:

uPtoWnNY said:

For me, reparations is fixing our fucked up segregated education system so inner city kids have the same chance for a quality education like their suburban counterparts. How about fixing the inequities in the criminal justice system, or coming up with creative ways to reduce poverty, create jobs, encourage entrepreneurship?


You've brought up many excellent points.

Education is the biggest factor IMO. Nearly every successful American, including all races, has one thing in common - they are educated enough to communicate effectively, get along with people, and be productive workers. Without that education, it's tough to go much farther than fast food restaurants and convenience stores no matter how hard they work.

I thought the bussing of inner city kids to suburban and rural schools was a good idea back in the day. Not only did it provide a better education for the inner city kids, but it also taught ALL the kids how to interact and befriend those of different races.

Unfortunately today, inner city schools have become a nightmare. Students are constantly ignoring teachers, being disruptive, disrespecting teachers and even assaulting teachers. As a result, quality teachers are leaving urban schools in droves. And there's no solution to the problem, especially with parents not only condoning the abhorrent behavior but actually encouraging it.

As for reducing poverty, there's a VERY easy solution: Stop having a ton of kids that you can't afford to support. I've posted the numbers many times in the past, the birth rate for those born in poverty is far greater than any other income level. It's completely irresponsible to bring 5 or more children into a world of poverty with the expectation that they don't have to work or save because the government will support them.

Yeah right, let's blame the kids, their families and the lack of integration with the 'rich' kids rolleyes

To accumulate power, a government with authoritarian tendencies must first destroy power. https://www.theguardian.c...y-exchange
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Reply #239 posted 04/09/19 6:31am

poppys

TweetyV6 said:

poppys said:


The Netherlands is one of the countries that would owe reparations in the Caribbean. Among other places they exploited, like Surinam and other Dutch colonies.


Pffffffffff .... HAHAHAHAHA lol lol
Riiiight....

You mean for the prosperity they brought?


Yes, I remember this from another thread a while back. You justify slavery because it brought wealth to the (caucaisan european) people of the country.

The Dutch were some of the worst. They started early and refused to give up Surinam even after the rest of Europe outlawed slavery. Disgusting that centuries later Tweety still points to greed as the reason - and is proud of it.

[Edited 4/9/19 6:33am]

"if you can't clap on the one, then don't clap at all"
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