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Thread started 03/20/19 7:41am

poppys

The Electoral College - Can we get rid of it???


maybe yes


https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/electoral-college-2020-810187/

What It Would (Really) Take to Abolish the Electoral College

Elizabeth Warren, Pete Buttigieg, Beto O’Rourke and others have expressed support for abolishing the Electoral College. Is it even possible?




life, it ain't real funky unless it's got that pop.
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Reply #1 posted 03/20/19 7:46am

poppys

maybe not (from above)

...Regardless of how much wisdom exists in the idea to abolish the Electoral College and decide presidential elections on, you know, which candidate receives the most votes, the move would require a constitutional amendment, which is rather tough to pass.

To do so, two-thirds of both the Senate and House of Representatives would need to support the change, as would 38 of the 50 states. This isn’t likely to happen even if Democrats were to control both houses of Congress, as Republicans have railed against the idea at every turn. “The desire to abolish the Electoral College is driven by the idea Democrats want rural America to go away politically,” Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) tweeted in response to Warren’s town hall...

life, it ain't real funky unless it's got that pop.
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Reply #2 posted 03/20/19 8:14am

RodeoSchro

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Pretty hard to do but it's definitely worth the effort.

Also as a reminder - the GOP wants to change our election system so that electoral votes are awarded on a county-by-county basis per state, instead of on the total state vote. So if you won more counties but lost the popular vote in a state, you'd still get the most electoral votes.

Had this system been in place in 2012, Mitt Romney would have won that election.

Keep your eyes open for this strategy. It was beat down in 2013-14 but I bet it will raise its ugly head again at some point.

Second Funkiest White Man in America

P&R's paladin
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Reply #3 posted 03/20/19 9:18am

jjhunsecker

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We need to get rid of it entirely, and go to a national vote. As it stands, the EC overvalues some states, and undervalues others
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Reply #4 posted 03/20/19 1:10pm

13cjk13

RodeoSchro said:

Pretty hard to do but it's definitely worth the effort.

Also as a reminder - the GOP wants to change our election system so that electoral votes are awarded on a county-by-county basis per state, instead of on the total state vote. So if you won more counties but lost the popular vote in a state, you'd still get the most electoral votes.

Had this system been in place in 2012, Mitt Romney would have won that election.

Keep your eyes open for this strategy. It was beat down in 2013-14 but I bet it will raise its ugly head again at some point.

Cheating assholes ruining this country.

"Our liberty depends on the freedom of the press, and that cannot be limited without being lost".
-Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #5 posted 03/20/19 1:32pm

Graycap23

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The EC is doing what it was designed to do.

Control the outcome of National elections.

FOOLS multiply when WISE Men & Women are silent.
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Reply #6 posted 03/20/19 2:12pm

poppys

...Absent a Constitutional amendment, however, there’s something called the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact.

If a state signs onto the NPVIC, it pledges to allocate all of its Electoral College votes to whichever candidate wins the national popular vote. The compact takes effect only after the total electoral college votes of the states who sign on surpasses 270, the minimum needed to win the election.

If that happens, it would ensure that whichever candidate wins the national popular vote would also win the Electoral College.


On Friday, Colorado Governor Jared Polis signed a bill entering the state into the compact, joining other solidly blue states like California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Illinois, Massachusetts, Maryland, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island, Vermont, Washington and the District of Columbia. Those states and D.C. represent 181 Electoral College votes, which means several red states would need to get on board before the NPVIC would have any chance of taking effect.



12 states are in the compact plus DC so far. If enough states do it, it would tip the electoral scales over 270. Then we wouldn't need Congress or 38 states. Texas is trending purple, Beto almost won. I almost have hope here.

[Edited 3/20/19 15:29pm]

life, it ain't real funky unless it's got that pop.
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Reply #7 posted 03/23/19 1:42pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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when you just can't accept the results of an election....

I had everything I needed
But now my life is so blue
You meant the world to me
But now you're gone and I'm so blue
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Reply #8 posted 03/23/19 3:05pm

jjhunsecker

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When you can't get the majority of Americans to vote for your candidate, and have to rely on an outmoded system that overvalues some voters and undervalues others
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Reply #9 posted 03/23/19 6:54pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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jjhunsecker said:

When you can't get the majority of Americans to vote for your candidate, and have to rely on an outmoded system that overvalues some voters and undervalues others

bill clinton never had a majority


and you understand how elections work and that they would be different if it was a popular vote. the system is in place for the very reason so that a big states can not have too much power...

and i hope you know you've never voted for a president... you are just confused.

I had everything I needed
But now my life is so blue
You meant the world to me
But now you're gone and I'm so blue
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Reply #10 posted 03/23/19 8:52pm

jjhunsecker

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The Republicans had the plurality of the vote in exactly ONE of the last 7 Presidential elections. That was Bush in 2004. I didn't want him there, but the fact is, in THAT specific election , he had more people in America voting for him than John Kerry. I cannot dispute that.

The Electoral College is an outmoded system that gives too much power based on geography...Of course the people who still support it are in favor of it, because there is no other way they can win an election in America.



Of course, none of the people who support the Electoral College can explain why they do not support having the vote of every single American- no matter where they live- COUNT EQUALLY. It's all just partisan bullshit. It's time that this system is eliminated. NOTHING is beyond criticism or written in stone like the Ten Commandments.

[Edited 3/23/19 20:55pm]

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Reply #11 posted 03/23/19 8:53pm

jjhunsecker

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Graycap23 said:

The EC is doing what it was designed to do.

Control the outcome of National elections.

So correct....

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Reply #12 posted 03/24/19 7:03am

poppys

It's supposed to be some kind of gotcha that Bill Clinton didn't "have a majority"? He still beat Perot and Poppy Bush by a wide margin in the Electoral College AND the Popular Vote. Not that this thread has anything to do with him.

Wouldn't it be funny if Texas joined the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact and flipped enough electoral votes?? All we need is 89 more, slightly less than 1/3. Arizona is going purple too.

life, it ain't real funky unless it's got that pop.
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Reply #13 posted 03/24/19 7:15am

poppys

jjhunsecker said:

The Republicans had the plurality of the vote in exactly ONE of the last 7 Presidential elections. That was Bush in 2004. I didn't want him there, but the fact is, in THAT specific election , he had more people in America voting for him than John Kerry. I cannot dispute that.

The Electoral College is an outmoded system that gives too much power based on geography...Of course the people who still support it are in favor of it, because there is no other way they can win an election in America.



Of course, none of the people who support the Electoral College can explain why they do not support having the vote of every single American- no matter where they live- COUNT EQUALLY. It's all just partisan bullshit. It's time that this system is eliminated. NOTHING is beyond criticism or written in stone like the Ten Commandments.


Yes, the rest of the world just does voting wrong. One person, one vote is just too - fair?

The fact that the popular vote was overridden by the EC twice this century (and none in the last) is showing the toll gerrymandering and poll fraud (see Florida) have taken.

life, it ain't real funky unless it's got that pop.
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Reply #14 posted 03/24/19 7:20am

OnlyNDaUsa

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jjhunsecker said:

The Republicans had the plurality of the vote in exactly ONE of the last 7 Presidential elections. That was Bush in 2004. I didn't want him there, but the fact is, in THAT specific election , he had more people in America voting for him than John Kerry. I cannot dispute that.

The Electoral College is an outmoded system that gives too much power based on geography...Of course the people who still support it are in favor of it, because there is no other way they can win an election in America.



Of course, none of the people who support the Electoral College can explain why they do not support having the vote of every single American- no matter where they live- COUNT EQUALLY. It's all just partisan bullshit. It's time that this system is eliminated. NOTHING is beyond criticism or written in stone like the Ten Commandments.

[Edited 3/23/19 20:55pm]

and Dems had a majority in 2 of the last 10?

I believe that over the last 10 elections Republicans have gotten MORE of the popular votes and won more electoral votes and won more states than Dems. (feel free to prove me wrong)

I had everything I needed
But now my life is so blue
You meant the world to me
But now you're gone and I'm so blue
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Reply #15 posted 03/24/19 7:28am

poppys

Post actual facts and figures for what you believe. Stay on topic or start your own thread.

life, it ain't real funky unless it's got that pop.
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Reply #16 posted 03/24/19 7:57am

poppys

Electoral_map_2012-2020.svg_.png

[Edited 3/24/19 8:09am]

life, it ain't real funky unless it's got that pop.
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Reply #17 posted 03/24/19 8:05am

poppys

States already in the Compact + DC

California
Colorado
Connecticut
Hawaii
Illinois
Massachusetts
Maryland
New Jersey
New York
Rhode Island
Vermont
Washington
District of Columbia



life, it ain't real funky unless it's got that pop.
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Reply #18 posted 03/24/19 8:33am

poppys

This article looks at where we've been in the past and where we are with the EC now.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/22/upshot/electoral-college-votes-states.html

...The true quirkiness of the Electoral College comes from how states award their votes, not how many votes each state has: It’s (largely) winner-take-all.

This is the feature that defines the character of American presidential elections. A candidate who narrowly wins the tipping-point states will win the presidency, regardless of the margin of victory in the rest of the country. That means there’s no incentive for candidates to campaign in any noncompetitive state, whether it’s a populous one like California or the opposite, like North Dakota.

The winner-take-all bias that elevates the battleground states overruns all of the other biases. If the big states were close and competitive, the big states would decide our elections — as they did until fairly recently.

What’s so interesting is that this defining feature is largely unintended.

It’s not specified in the Constitution. Most states didn’t award their electors on a winner-take-all basis in the first presidential elections, and even today there are two states that do not: Nebraska and Maine, which award some electoral votes by congressional district...

[Edited 3/24/19 8:35am]

life, it ain't real funky unless it's got that pop.
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Reply #19 posted 03/24/19 9:04am

jjhunsecker

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poppys said:

It's supposed to be some kind of gotcha that Bill Clinton didn't "have a majority"? He still beat Perot and Poppy Bush by a wide margin in the Electoral College AND the Popular Vote. Not that this thread has anything to do with him.

Wouldn't it be funny if Texas joined the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact and flipped enough electoral votes?? All we need is 89 more, slightly less than 1/3. Arizona is going purple too.



Exactly- Clinton had more votes than any of the other candidates in a race with a strong third party contender.

Whoever gets the most votes in America should win. End of story. The EC is outmoded and should be scrapped.
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Reply #20 posted 03/24/19 12:15pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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poppys said:

Post actual facts and figures for what you believe. Stay on topic or start your own thread.

it was on topic... the election results of the last 10 elections goes to the argument that the system is working fine.

I had everything I needed
But now my life is so blue
You meant the world to me
But now you're gone and I'm so blue
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Reply #21 posted 03/24/19 12:16pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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jjhunsecker said:

poppys said:

It's supposed to be some kind of gotcha that Bill Clinton didn't "have a majority"? He still beat Perot and Poppy Bush by a wide margin in the Electoral College AND the Popular Vote. Not that this thread has anything to do with him.

Wouldn't it be funny if Texas joined the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact and flipped enough electoral votes?? All we need is 89 more, slightly less than 1/3. Arizona is going purple too.

Exactly- Clinton had more votes than any of the other candidates in a race with a strong third party contender. Whoever gets the most votes in America should win. End of story. The EC is outmoded and should be scrapped.

funny how I pwnd your argument to dust and then you cry that you do not like the system...you can not seem to make up your mind?

I had everything I needed
But now my life is so blue
You meant the world to me
But now you're gone and I'm so blue
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Reply #22 posted 03/24/19 12:40pm

jjhunsecker

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Did somebody say something?? Or was it just a loud diarrheatic fart ?

Either way, makes no difference to me, or any person with half a brain...
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Reply #23 posted 03/24/19 12:43pm

jjhunsecker

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poppys said:

Post actual facts and figures for what you believe. Stay on topic or start your own thread.



"Facts ? What facts? We don't need no stinkin' facts!"
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Reply #24 posted 03/25/19 3:21pm

poppys

jjhunsecker said:

poppys said:

Post actual facts and figures for what you believe. Stay on topic or start your own thread.


"Facts ? What facts? We don't need no stinkin' facts!"


lol


life, it ain't real funky unless it's got that pop.
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Reply #25 posted 03/25/19 10:00pm

guitarslinger4
4

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The EC balances out the weight of different regions' votes. If we were to go to simply popular vote, California, New York, and Texas would pretty much control the outcome of every election which is bullshit too.

Nobody was crying about abolishing the EC until they didn't get their way at the polls. Popular vote isn't even the best alternative. If we were going to change tyrbsystem, a First Past The Post system like they use in a lot of European countries would be a better system.
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Reply #26 posted 03/25/19 10:20pm

Graycap23

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guitarslinger44 said:

[b]The EC balances out the weight of different regions' votes. If we were to go to simply popular vote, California, New York, and Texas would pretty much control the outcome of every election which is bullshit too.

It's called majority rule.

What is B.S. about majority rule?

FOOLS multiply when WISE Men & Women are silent.
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Reply #27 posted 03/26/19 1:00am

BombSquad

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EC=ridiculous idiotic undemocratic system made by idiots for idiots to keep power and control and rule out any third party forever

what a shitty clusterfuck nation LMFAO

Trump turns from 'whining' grief to pathetic midterm sissy moaning and squealing.
weakest pussy crybaby ever to hold office LMFAO
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Reply #28 posted 03/26/19 4:34am

jjhunsecker

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Graycap23 said:



guitarslinger44 said:


[b]The EC balances out the weight of different regions' votes. If we were to go to simply popular vote, California, New York, and Texas would pretty much control the outcome of every election which is bullshit too.

It's called majority rule.


What is B.S. about majority rule?



Because they know that they can't win a Presidential election any other way.
And last time I looked, California and New York were part of AMERICA, not some foreign land....

As I said before, I didn't complain when Reagan won in 80 and 84, or Bush in 88, or W in 2004, because they had the plurality of the popular vote. I didn't vote for any of them, but more Americans did
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Reply #29 posted 03/26/19 4:41am

jjhunsecker

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guitarslinger44 said:

The EC balances out the weight of different regions' votes. If we were to go to simply popular vote, California, New York, and Texas would pretty much control the outcome of every election which is bullshit too.

Nobody was crying about abolishing the EC until they didn't get their way at the polls. Popular vote isn't even the best alternative. If we were going to change tyrbsystem, a First Past The Post system like they use in a lot of European countries would be a better system.


Why should the weight of any vote be "balanced out "? That would mean that some voters are given a disproportionate value. What's wrong with every vote counting EQUALLY?
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