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Reply #30 posted 02/21/19 3:42am

2elijah

avatar

jaawwnn said:

LOL not being a lifelong democrat should be seen as a point in his favour.
[Edited 2/21/19 1:43am]

Not being a republican is truly a blessing for him. Many Dems voted for him in the last election, and many will this time around. He also raised more than $6 million dollars within 24 hours of his announcement.

It would be an honor and a blessing if Bernie beats trump.
[Edited 2/21/19 4:48am]
The abortion ban issue...any relation to 2045 or pre-1848?
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Reply #31 posted 02/21/19 4:56am

poppys

jaawwnn said:

LOL not being a lifelong democrat should be seen as a point in his favour.


I'm fine with him not being a Democrat, I started out as an Independent. Then I realized I couldn't vote in the primaries of the states I was living in. Not sure if he can get the nomination, just like last time. We HAVE to nominate someone who can beat Trump and his lockstep block in the Electoral College. Winning is the most important thing we have to do.

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Reply #32 posted 02/21/19 5:04am

nd33

poppys said:



jaawwnn said:


LOL not being a lifelong democrat should be seen as a point in his favour.



I'm fine with him not being a Democrat, I started out as an Independent. Then I realized I couldn't vote in the primaries of the states I was living in. Not sure if he can get the nomination, just like last time. We HAVE to nominate someone who can beat Trump and his lockstep block in the Electoral College. Winning is the most important thing we have to do.



Polls in 2016 pointed to Bernie besting Trump in a head to head by a higher margin than Hillary, who obviously failed.
Music, sweet music, I wish I could caress and...kiss, kiss...
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Reply #33 posted 02/21/19 5:09am

2elijah

avatar

nd33 said:

poppys said:



jaawwnn said:


LOL not being a lifelong democrat should be seen as a point in his favour.



I'm fine with him not being a Democrat, I started out as an Independent. Then I realized I couldn't vote in the primaries of the states I was living in. Not sure if he can get the nomination, just like last time. We HAVE to nominate someone who can beat Trump and his lockstep block in the Electoral College. Winning is the most important thing we have to do.



Polls in 2016 pointed to Bernie besting Trump in a head to head by a higher margin than Hillary, who obviously failed.

Well Hillary beat him last time. She’s not running this time, so Bernie doesn’t have to worry about Hill this time around. I just can’t wxit until the Maga hat wearing dunce is voted out of office. He’s already dummied-down his supporters into trumpbots.
[Edited 2/21/19 5:12am]
The abortion ban issue...any relation to 2045 or pre-1848?
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Reply #34 posted 02/21/19 5:13am

poppys

Many of the people pimping Bernie in this thread are not US. The polls said HRC would win too. She did win the popular vote, but not the Electoral College. Y'all do not understand our system, messed up as it is. We go over and over it, and you still say the same things.

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Reply #35 posted 02/21/19 5:20am

jaawwnn

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poppys said:

Many of the people pimping Bernie in this thread are not US. The polls said HRC would win too. She did win the popular vote, but not the Electoral College. Y'all do not understand our system, messed up as it is. We go over and over it, and you still say the same things.

This is true, i'm not in the US, although whatever happens in the US has a massive effect on what happens here so I have a vested interest in it.

At a basic level I see Bernie as getting the same tipping point votes as Trump, i.e. the protest vote, this was also more or less the same reason many people voted for Obama in 2008 - a vote for change, even if Obama didn't deliver. Obviously, Obama wasn't getting the straight-up racist votes Trump got but I have serious doubts on just how big a faction that is, regardless of media attention.

Bernie would need to get the democratic establishment behind him to get people who just vote based on party lines rather than on policies, and no doubt Bernie is not immediately as inspiring in speeches as Obama was, but his policies are rock solid and people know what they are voting for with him, to the point of tedium.

If those who don't normally vote actually voted then he will be less reliant on the democratic establishment. Polling numbers are less relevant with an outsider candidate like Trump or Bernie (and let's be clear about that one, Bernie is an outsider candidate, just because he now has name recognition doesn't make him in the slightest bit like a standard democrat).

[Edited 2/21/19 5:25am]

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Reply #36 posted 02/21/19 5:29am

2elijah

avatar

jaawwnn said:



poppys said:


Many of the people pimping Bernie in this thread are not US. The polls said HRC would win too. She did win the popular vote, but not the Electoral College. Y'all do not understand our system, messed up as it is. We go over and over it, and you still say the same things.



This is true, i'm not in the US, although whatever happens in the US has a massive effect on what happens here so I have a vested interest in it.

At a basic level I see Bernie as getting the same tipping point votes as Trump, i.e. the protest vote, this was also more or less the same reason many people voted for Obama in 2008 - a vote for change, even if Obama didn't deliver. Obviously, Obama wasn't getting the straight-up racist votes Trump got but I have serious doubts on just how big a faction that is, regardless of media attention.

Bernie would need to get the democratic establishment behind him to get people who just vote based on party lines rather than on policies, and no doubt Bernie is not immediately as inspiring in speeches as Obama was, but his policies are rock solid and people know what they are voting for with him, to the point of tedium.

If those who don't normally vote actually voted then he will be less reliant on the democratic establishment. Polling numbers are less relevant with an outsider candidate like Trump or Bernie (and let's be clear about that one, Bernie is an outsider candidate, just because he now has name recognition doesn't make him in the slightest bit like a standard democrat).


[Edited 2/21/19 5:25am]


My guess is Bernie is going to pull in a lot of Dems who didn’t vote for Hillary, including those who did vote for Hillary, I feel he could draw them in. He’s not afraid of standing up to trump and would be a strong candidate. However, I’m not sure how he will do if Biden gets in the race. We shall see.
The abortion ban issue...any relation to 2045 or pre-1848?
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Reply #37 posted 02/21/19 5:32am

poppys



[Edited 2/21/19 5:39am]

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Reply #38 posted 02/21/19 5:38am

poppys

jaawwnn said:

poppys said:

Many of the people pimping Bernie in this thread are not US. The polls said HRC would win too. She did win the popular vote, but not the Electoral College. Y'all do not understand our system, messed up as it is. We go over and over it, and you still say the same things.

This is true, i'm not in the US, although whatever happens in the US has a massive effect on what happens here so I have a vested interest in it.

At a basic level I see Bernie as getting the same tipping point votes as Trump, i.e. the protest vote, this was also more or less the same reason many people voted for Obama in 2008 - a vote for change, even if Obama didn't deliver. Obviously, Obama wasn't getting the straight-up racist votes Trump got but I have serious doubts on just how big a faction that is, regardless of media attention.

Bernie would need to get the democratic establishment behind him to get people who just vote based on party lines rather than on policies, and no doubt Bernie is not immediately as inspiring in speeches as Obama was, but his policies are rock solid and people know what they are voting for with him, to the point of tedium.

If those who don't normally vote actually voted then he will be less reliant on the democratic establishment. Polling numbers are less relevant with an outsider candidate like Trump or Bernie (and let's be clear about that one, Bernie is an outsider candidate, just because he now has name recognition doesn't make him in the slightest bit like a standard democrat).


Okay, fine. It's very early. I am hoping people educate themselves, US or not, so we don't have to go through the same stuff all the time. It will be a long hard fight to unseat the Orange Troll.

It is more than academic to us and a pain in the ass when people continue to push for things that won't happen because of the way our system is. Because they refuse to learn/acknowledge the ropes. We have enough on our hands with people who can vote.

As far as getting out the vote, many many of us on this forum post about it all the time. You are saying nothing new about a lot of things.

I just don't agree with your theories - which is what they are. Even your take on past elections.

[Edited 2/21/19 5:41am]

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Reply #39 posted 02/21/19 5:51am

nd33

2elijah said:

nd33 said:



Polls in 2016 pointed to Bernie besting Trump in a head to head by a higher margin than Hillary, who obviously failed.

Well Hillary beat him last time. She’s not running this time, so Bernie doesn’t have to worry about Hill this time around. I just can’t wxit until the Maga hat wearing dunce is voted out of office. He’s already dummied-down his supporters into trumpbots.
[Edited 2/21/19 5:12am]


Here’s just one of the articles from 2016:

“Recent polls have demonstrated that Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders holds a much higher potential to defeat Donald Trump, the presumptive Republican nominee, in an election than Hillary Clinton, although the latter is the Democratic party's frontrunner.“

https://www.aljazeera.com...35436.html

It’s a shame almost everyone turned a blind eye to the fuckery going on with the DNC in the primary, look what probably would’ve happened...
Music, sweet music, I wish I could caress and...kiss, kiss...
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Reply #40 posted 02/21/19 5:57am

poppys

bored

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Reply #41 posted 02/21/19 6:00am

jaawwnn

avatar

poppys said:


Okay, fine. It's very early. I am hoping people educate themselves, US or not, so we don't have to go through the same stuff all the time. It will be a long hard fight to unseat the Orange Troll.

It is more than academic to us and a pain in the ass when people continue to push for things that won't happen because of the way our system is. Because they refuse to learn/acknowledge the ropes. We have enough on our hands with people who can vote.

As far as getting out the vote, many many of us on this forum post about it all the time. You are saying nothing new about a lot of things.

I just don't agree with your theories - which is what they are. Even your take on past elections.

[Edited 2/21/19 5:41am]

Hey it's all good we don't have to agree, it's only early 2019! I have my theories alright but I wouldn't be surprised if it all goes a completely different direction. Feel free to post your own theories, I'm interested in anyone's take.

Cards on the table: my political ideology is close to Bernie's and his political history is consistent, so yeah it's the closest in my lifetime that any potential candidate in the US has been to how I'd like to see the most powerful country in the world run. I'm excited!

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Reply #42 posted 02/21/19 6:04am

poppys

jaawwnn said:

poppys said:


Okay, fine. It's very early. I am hoping people educate themselves, US or not, so we don't have to go through the same stuff all the time. It will be a long hard fight to unseat the Orange Troll.

It is more than academic to us and a pain in the ass when people continue to push for things that won't happen because of the way our system is. Because they refuse to learn/acknowledge the ropes. We have enough on our hands with people who can vote.

As far as getting out the vote, many many of us on this forum post about it all the time. You are saying nothing new about a lot of things.

I just don't agree with your theories - which is what they are. Even your take on past elections.

[Edited 2/21/19 5:41am]

Hey it's all good we don't have to agree, it's only early 2019! I have my theories alright but I wouldn't be surprised if it all goes a completely different direction. Feel free to post your own theories, I'm interested in anyone's take.

Cards on the table: my political ideology is close to Bernie's and his political history is consistent, so yeah it's the closest in my lifetime that any potential candidate in the US has been to how I'd like to see the most powerful country in the world run. I'm excited!


highfive Appreciate that you care!

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Reply #43 posted 02/21/19 6:04am

2elijah

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nd33 said:

2elijah said:


Well Hillary beat him last time. She’s not running this time, so Bernie doesn’t have to worry about Hill this time around. I just can’t wxit until the Maga hat wearing dunce is voted out of office. He’s already dummied-down his supporters into trumpbots.
[Edited 2/21/19 5:12am]


Here’s just one of the articles from 2016:

“Recent polls have demonstrated that Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders holds a much higher potential to defeat Donald Trump, the presumptive Republican nominee, in an election than Hillary Clinton, although the latter is the Democratic party's frontrunner.“

https://www.aljazeera.com...35436.html

It’s a shame almost everyone turned a blind eye to the fuckery going on with the DNC in the primary, look what probably would’ve happened...

Yes, yet Hillary still won the primary. But the focus today, is on the candidates currently running, and who can beat that Maga hat dunce dunce in office.

So let’s give Bernie a hand clapping for raising over $6 million within 24 hours of his announcement as a candidate for president.
[Edited 2/21/19 6:12am]
The abortion ban issue...any relation to 2045 or pre-1848?
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Reply #44 posted 02/21/19 6:18am

happinessinits
uncutform

Yes Hilary won the popular vote and yes Electoral College is far outdated, non-democratic system and we need to abolish it asap. BUT let's not forget Clinton needs to hold herself accountable for certain things too. For such a 'charismatic' woman she did not go hard enough on Trump at the televised debates. Her email scandal was embarrassing, and spoke volume about her skills. We all make mistakes? When you're the secretary of state you should've known better not to use your PERSONAL EMAIL ACCOUNT to do the job you were appointed to do. This is some inexcusable mistake she could've actually been criminally charged for. Certain aspects of her campaign were downright stupid. It would be amazing to have a female leader yes but that should not be anyone's top reason to vote for Clinton. It's clear Clinton had underestimated Trump. Didn't know how to strategize, didn't generate enough excitement.

[Edited 2/21/19 7:07am]

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Reply #45 posted 02/21/19 7:33am

2elijah

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happinessinitsuncutform said:

Yes Hilary won the popular vote and yes Electoral College is far outdated, non-democratic system and we need to abolish it asap. BUT let's not forget Clinton needs to hold herself accountable for certain things too. For such a 'charismatic' woman she did not go hard enough on Trump at the televised debates. Her email scandal was embarrassing, and spoke volume about her skills. We all make mistakes? When you're the secretary of state you should've known better not to use your PERSONAL EMAIL ACCOUNT to do the job you were appointed to do. This is some inexcusable mistake she could've actually been criminally charged for. Certain aspects of her campaign were downright stupid. It would be amazing to have a female leader yes but that should not be anyone's top reason to vote for Clinton. It's clear Clinton had underestimated Trump. Didn't know how to strategize, didn't generate enough excitement.

[Edited 2/21/19 7:07am]


She’s not running for president. The focus this year should be on the candidates that are running who can kick trump out of office.
The abortion ban issue...any relation to 2045 or pre-1848?
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Reply #46 posted 02/21/19 8:28am

2freaky4church
1

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2Elijah, surprised you like him. Obama being such a centrist and such.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #47 posted 02/21/19 8:29am

2freaky4church
1

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"I wish Bernie Well." Trump is scared. lol

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #48 posted 02/21/19 8:39am

2elijah

avatar

2freaky4church1 said:

2Elijah, surprised you like him. Obama being such a centrist and such.


Never said I didn’t like him.
The abortion ban issue...any relation to 2045 or pre-1848?
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Reply #49 posted 02/21/19 8:55am

namepeace

jaawwnn said:

LOL not being a lifelong democrat should be seen as a point in his favour. [Edited 2/21/19 1:43am]


Yet he still wants to run as one and needs the support of lifelong Dems to do so.

Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
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Reply #50 posted 02/21/19 8:57am

poppys

namepeace said:

jaawwnn said:

LOL not being a lifelong democrat should be seen as a point in his favour.


Yet he still wants to run as one and needs the support of lifelong Dems to do so.


nod

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Reply #51 posted 02/21/19 9:06am

namepeace

nd33 said:

namepeace said:

In his second run for the Democratic nod, he still hasn't addressed a real problem - he's not a Democrat.

In 2016, he ran for the Democratic nomination without changing his political affiliation. So, he wanted the Democraric mantle but he didn't want to become a Democrat.

The rank-and-file primary voters generally want someone who's actually affiliated with the party. His complaints about the nominaiton being rigged against him are not persuasive because it was perfectly reasonable for voters to be skeptical of a guy that didn't actually want to be one of them but wanted all the benefits associated with it.

He's trying to do the same thing in 2020, and now he is facing a host of *actual* Democrats with policies that are almost as progressive as his. He's got name recognition and a fundraising jump, but why would Democrats hand their nomination to an independent when they could give the nomination to one of their own with a similar platform?

Maybe he's able to leverage his base of independent voters but unless he convinces them to register as Democrats it won't resonate with Democratic primary voters.

Maybe he gets the nod, but he's gonna get hammered for not actually being a Democrat.

Ok, what does it mean to be a Democrat, morally and philosophically?


That's the wrong question and deflects from the real issue, which isn't about morals or philosophy, or ideology.

It's about affiliation.

Senator Sanders is seeking the nomination of a national party to which he does not belong and has chosen not to join.






Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
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Reply #52 posted 02/21/19 9:35am

jaawwnn

avatar

namepeace said:

jaawwnn said:

LOL not being a lifelong democrat should be seen as a point in his favour. [Edited 2/21/19 1:43am]


Yet he still wants to run as one and needs the support of lifelong Dems to do so.

Let's say you agreed with 100% of his policies and believed they were in your and everyone else's interests, would you still not endorse him because of this? You'd prefer to make everyone's life worse because a candidate was not in the right club?

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Reply #53 posted 02/21/19 9:38am

nd33

namepeace said:



nd33 said:


namepeace said:

In his second run for the Democratic nod, he still hasn't addressed a real problem - he's not a Democrat.

In 2016, he ran for the Democratic nomination without changing his political affiliation. So, he wanted the Democraric mantle but he didn't want to become a Democrat.

The rank-and-file primary voters generally want someone who's actually affiliated with the party. His complaints about the nominaiton being rigged against him are not persuasive because it was perfectly reasonable for voters to be skeptical of a guy that didn't actually want to be one of them but wanted all the benefits associated with it.

He's trying to do the same thing in 2020, and now he is facing a host of *actual* Democrats with policies that are almost as progressive as his. He's got name recognition and a fundraising jump, but why would Democrats hand their nomination to an independent when they could give the nomination to one of their own with a similar platform?

Maybe he's able to leverage his base of independent voters but unless he convinces them to register as Democrats it won't resonate with Democratic primary voters.

Maybe he gets the nod, but he's gonna get hammered for not actually being a Democrat.




Ok, what does it mean to be a Democrat, morally and philosophically?


That's the wrong question and deflects from the real issue, which isn't about morals or philosophy, or ideology.

It's about affiliation.

Senator Sanders is seeking the nomination of a national party to which he does not belong and has chosen not to join.








He certainly affiliates with the Democratic Party though. I think he believes his core values are closest to theirs, so he chooses to run his campaign on that platform. Makes sense, because how many times has a candidate not affiliated with either the D’s or the R’s won the presidency in the last hundred years?
Music, sweet music, I wish I could caress and...kiss, kiss...
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Reply #54 posted 02/21/19 10:32am

poppys

nd33 said:

namepeace said:


That's the wrong question and deflects from the real issue, which isn't about morals or philosophy, or ideology.

It's about affiliation.

Senator Sanders is seeking the nomination of a national party to which he does not belong and has chosen not to join.



He certainly affiliates with the Democratic Party though. I think he believes his core values are closest to theirs, so he chooses to run his campaign on that platform. Makes sense, because how many times has a candidate not affiliated with either the D’s or the R’s won the presidency in the last hundred years?


Exactly. This election is way too important to play around. Not having skin in this game, it seems more of an intellectual exercise for you.

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Reply #55 posted 02/21/19 12:33pm

happinessinits
uncutform

namepeace said:

jaawwnn said:

LOL not being a lifelong democrat should be seen as a point in his favour. [Edited 2/21/19 1:43am]


Yet he still wants to run as one and needs the support of lifelong Dems to do so.

As if loyalty or affiliation have anything to do with qualification? (Trump wasn’t associated with one either yet he still ended up ~trumping~ Ted Cruz & Rubio.) Sanders introduced Medicare for all – a solid plan to arguably the most pressing problem in the nation. When Dems were scared of the word ‘socialist’ Sanders first starting using it to introduce his policy. It is no longer a dirty word among Dems Because of Sanders. Forget the official party, Sanders has been the one who's been shaping what Democratic ideology should be for decades. Now, if anything Democrats need Sanders just as much as Sanders needs the party.

[Edited 2/21/19 12:33pm]

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Reply #56 posted 02/21/19 12:39pm

poppys

happinessinitsuncutform said:

namepeace said:


Yet he still wants to run as one and needs the support of lifelong Dems to do so.


As if loyalty or affiliation have anything to do with qualification? (Trump wasn’t associated with one either yet he still ended up ~trumping~ Ted Cruz & Rubio.) Sanders introduced Medicare for all – a solid plan to arguably the most pressing problem in the nation. When Dems were scared of the word ‘socialist’ Sanders first starting using it to introduce his policy. It is no longer a dirty word among Dems Because of Sanders. Forget the official party, Sanders has been the one who's been shaping what Democratic ideology should be for decades. Now, if anything Democrats need Sanders just as much as Sanders needs the party.


What country are U from?

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Reply #57 posted 02/21/19 12:49pm

happinessinits
uncutform

2elijah said:

happinessinitsuncutform said:

Yes Hilary won the popular vote and yes Electoral College is far outdated, non-democratic system and we need to abolish it asap. BUT let's not forget Clinton needs to hold herself accountable for certain things too. For such a 'charismatic' woman she did not go hard enough on Trump at the televised debates. Her email scandal was embarrassing, and spoke volume about her skills. We all make mistakes? When you're the secretary of state you should've known better not to use your PERSONAL EMAIL ACCOUNT to do the job you were appointed to do. This is some inexcusable mistake she could've actually been criminally charged for. Certain aspects of her campaign were downright stupid. It would be amazing to have a female leader yes but that should not be anyone's top reason to vote for Clinton. It's clear Clinton had underestimated Trump. Didn't know how to strategize, didn't generate enough excitement.

[Edited 2/21/19 7:07am]

She’s not running for president. The focus this year should be on the candidates that are running who can kick trump out of office.

Thanks captain obvious? I was just commenting on what yall were saying about Clinton lol

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Reply #58 posted 02/21/19 12:53pm

poppys

happinessinitsuncutform said:

2elijah said:

happinessinitsuncutform said: She’s not running for president. The focus this year should be on the candidates that are running who can kick trump out of office.


Thanks captain obvious? I was just commenting on what yall were saying about Clinton lol


What country are U from?

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Reply #59 posted 02/21/19 1:02pm

happinessinits
uncutform

poppys said:

happinessinitsuncutform said:


Thanks captain obvious? I was just commenting on what yall were saying about Clinton lol


What country are U from?

From here, although 2020 will only be my 3rd time voting - been working abroad.

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