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Reply #150 posted 09/19/18 6:56pm

MoBettaBliss

free2bFreeda2 said:

i hope and wish the best for Serena in the future.
No matter all the negative words from the press and those who wish to denigrate her.
she's proven to be one of the best and most skilled tennis players of all time.


She’s the greatest female tennis player ever. No doubt. I gave huge respect for what she’s achieved in the sport.
But she was way out of line here. That’s all. Her coach told her to go to the net... she started going to the net more. Her actions following her coach being called for coaching were appalling. She robbed someone else of their moment. She got a violation due to the actions of her coach. That’s how it works... but at that point she hadn’t been docked a point. It was only due to her actions after that she was docked a point and then a game.
How great she is at tennis doesn’t excuse her behaviour.
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Reply #151 posted 09/19/18 6:59pm

IanRG

toejam said:

free2bFreeda said: 🤓 the majority begs to differ
I'm not sure it is the majority, but either way truth is not determined by popular opinion. You keep insisting that Naomi Osaka is portrayed as "white" or "white looking" in the cartoon. Yet a simple comparison of the skin tones used by the artist begs to differ. Naomi's tone is depicted as darker than the white chair umpire and with a typically 'Japanese' pose and demeanor. Everytime you link to an article that says Naomi is depicted "white" you don't strengthen any argument, you just expose another who is projecting something that isn't there.

.

But no where near as dark as her actual skin - a tanned sportswoman would typically be drawn as darker than a untanned Ref who performs his tasks under a shade. Plus her ponytail was only light part way down, It was dark at the start fading to light but she is drawn as completely blonde - including the hair above her pony tail which was visible because she was wearing a open topped visor not a full cap.

.

Even your response here can be considered racist: She is Haitian-Japanese and so does not look typically Japanese. Standing up straight to look up at the Ref in the chair is not a using "a typically 'Japanese' pose and demeanor". This is your projection. I would stand up straight an look up at the Ref if he was quietly asking me to just let her win.

.

You really should ask yourself why you devote so much time here telling people of different races (especially African-Americans) to get over their experiences of racism though various means including in media, art and advertising. The truth about things like offensive depictions of people by their race is determined by popular opinion - this popular opinion is the normal opinions of the depicted people as to whether they think they are being racially abused, not the popular opinion of far-right White Queenslanders (Australia's "Deep North") defending the Murdoch Press.

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Reply #152 posted 09/19/18 7:00pm

IanRG

MoBettaBliss said:

free2bFreeda2 said:
i hope and wish the best for Serena in the future. No matter all the negative words from the press and those who wish to denigrate her. she's proven to be one of the best and most skilled tennis players of all time.
She’s the greatest female tennis player ever. No doubt. I gave huge respect for what she’s achieved in the sport. But she was way out of line here. That’s all. Her coach told her to go to the net... she started going to the net more. Her actions following her coach being called for coaching were appalling. She robbed someone else of their moment. She got a violation due to the actions of her coach. That’s how it works... but at that point she hadn’t been docked a point. It was only due to her actions after that she was docked a point and then a game. How great she is at tennis doesn’t excuse her behaviour.

.

Agreed

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Reply #153 posted 09/19/18 7:46pm

free2bFreeda2

IanRG said:



MoBettaBliss said:


free2bFreeda2 said:
i hope and wish the best for Serena in the future. No matter all the negative words from the press and those who wish to denigrate her. she's proven to be one of the best and most skilled tennis players of all time.

She’s the greatest female tennis player ever. No doubt. I gave huge respect for what she’s achieved in the sport. But she was way out of line here. That’s all. Her coach told her to go to the net... she started going to the net more. Her actions following her coach being called for coaching were appalling. She robbed someone else of their moment. She got a violation due to the actions of her coach. That’s how it works... but at that point she hadn’t been docked a point. It was only due to her actions after that she was docked a point and then a game. How great she is at tennis doesn’t excuse her behaviour.

.


Agreed


after much thought,
I totally agree with your words as far as understanding that Serena did loose control.
however
my anger/disappointment/confusion comes from the artist' depiction of Serena and Miss Osaka. Serena was pictured as an ugly female brute and Miss Osaka (who is a puerto rican brown in color) was pictured as a demure white looking Nicole Kidman type....imo the cartoon also showed a huge disrespect to her.
that is the issue... i am not hurt.....
just disappointed and egregiously mystified.
sidebar:
during the mid sixties there was, a militant black group. the artist for their organization(s) published cartoons that depicted the police looking like pigs. one of the reasons they chose the pig was because of the color of their whitish/pink skin which they said was almost identical to the color of pink pigs. they even did depictions of white female police.
🐷 imo that was very cruel 🐖
[Edited 9/19/18 20:18pm]
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Reply #154 posted 09/19/18 9:00pm

toejam

avatar

IanRG said:

But no where near as dark as her actual skin - a tanned sportswoman would typically be drawn as darker than a untanned Ref who performs his tasks under a shade. Plus her ponytail was only light part way down, It was dark at the start fading to light but she is drawn as completely blonde - including the hair above her pony tail which was visible because she was wearing a open topped visor not a full cap.

.

No one's skin tone in the cartoon is 100% accurate. All three - including the white chair umpire - have paler skin than they do in reality. Indeed, even the court itself is not as dark a blue as it is in reality. To suggest Namoi has been depicted white is contradicted by the evidence, where her skin tone is significantly darker than the white chair umpire:

.

serena.jpg

.

Even your response here can be considered racist: She is Haitian-Japanese and so does not look typically Japanese. Standing up straight to look up at the Ref in the chair is not a using "a typically 'Japanese' pose and demeanor". This is your projection. I would stand up straight an look up at the Ref if he was quietly asking me to just let her win.

.

There's nothing racist in saying that someone has been drawn using a typically Japanese pose and demeanor. Whether it is typically Japanese or not, I think the artist captured Naomi's quiet presence.

.

You really should ask yourself why you devote so much time here telling people of different races (especially African-Americans) to get over their experiences of racism though various means including in media, art and advertising. The truth about things like offensive depictions of people by their race is determined by popular opinion - this popular opinion is the normal opinions of the depicted people as to whether they think they are being racially abused, not the popular opinion of far-right White Queenslanders (Australia's "Deep North") defending the Murdoch Press.

.

Nothing of relevence here... Just the usual Ian-smear.

.

[Edited 9/19/18 21:17pm]

Toejam @ Peach & Black Podcast: http://peachandblack.podbean.com
Toejam's band "Cheap Fakes": http://cheapfakes.com.au, http://www.facebook.com/cheapfakes
Toejam the solo artist: http://www.youtube.com/scottbignell
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Reply #155 posted 09/19/18 9:32pm

toejam

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Toejam @ Peach & Black Podcast: http://peachandblack.podbean.com
Toejam's band "Cheap Fakes": http://cheapfakes.com.au, http://www.facebook.com/cheapfakes
Toejam the solo artist: http://www.youtube.com/scottbignell
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Reply #156 posted 09/19/18 10:00pm

IanRG

toejam said:

serena2.jpg

.

<Edited out incorrect assumption - It was the first pictures that had been manipulated not this one>

.

Note: Your close up clearly shows she is a blond even at the top of her head - clearly wrong, Naomi only had light bottom parts of her pony tail with very dark hair at the top of tail on her head.

.

Falsely accusations of smearing is merely recognition of you not being able to give an adult answer to valid points of criticism.

[Edited 9/19/18 23:44pm]

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Reply #157 posted 09/19/18 10:17pm

toejam

avatar

Nope. No image manipulation, Ian.

.

The original image:

.Screen-Shot-2018-09-10-at-12.54.35-PM.png

.

serena2.jpg

.

You seem to be confusing the red dots I added in another image merely to show where I had eyedropped the colour from as rosy red cheeks. I assumed that was obvious.

.

.

[Edited 9/19/18 22:19pm]

Toejam @ Peach & Black Podcast: http://peachandblack.podbean.com
Toejam's band "Cheap Fakes": http://cheapfakes.com.au, http://www.facebook.com/cheapfakes
Toejam the solo artist: http://www.youtube.com/scottbignell
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Reply #158 posted 09/19/18 10:48pm

IanRG

toejam said:

Nope. No image manipulation, Ian.

.

You seem to be confusing the red dots I added in another image merely to show where I had eyedropped the colour from as rosy red cheeks. I assumed that was obvious.

.

So you manipulated the first image, not the second image, my mistake. All I can say is why would I assume you added something to the first image without you disclosing what you did?

.

And this contains no admission that her hair in every picture (manipulated or not), is blond from the top of her head to the bottom of her pony tail - This is wrong. She only had a lightened bottom part of her pony tail. The picture is not of a dark Haitian-Japanese person and she has not been depicted in "a typically 'Japanese' pose and demeanor". This racial stereotype is your imagined projection as she is just a person listening to another person sitting above her on a chair in the pose that most humans would be in in this imagined circumstance. You are reading too much racial stereotyping by the cartoonist in the drawing of Naomi whilst demanding everyone else not read the same into the drawing of Serena.

.

None of this answers why you are so obsessed with telling people why they should get over their experiences of racism though various means including in media, art and advertising.

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Reply #159 posted 09/20/18 12:32am

toejam

avatar

^It's a shame you couldn't bring yourself to apologise for accusing me of misleadingly manipulating an image. And, despite your objection to the contrary, it was clearly disclosed that the "red dot areas" were the areas from which I had 'eyedropped' the colour. But quite frankly, I'm amazed you at least admitted that infallible-Ian had indeed made a mistake! So I'll take that as your apology. Apology accepted, Ian wink

It's also a shame you couldn't bring yourself to admit that I have a point - the depiction of Naomi's skin tone is clearly darker than that of the "white" chair umpire's, thus exposing the emptiness of your and free2BFreeda's claim that Naomi has been depicted as "white".

The accuracy to which the artist has rendered the length of Naomi's dyed-blonde hair is really a desperate scraping-of-the-barrel for something to cling on to. The fact is that Naomi had a dyed-blonde pony-tail. Nobody's depiction is in perfect ratio. The umpire clearly wasn't that skinny, certainly didn't have a nose that big, and iirc, had some stubble that is missing. Heaven forbid!! Must be racism!!

.
[Edited 9/20/18 0:39am]
Toejam @ Peach & Black Podcast: http://peachandblack.podbean.com
Toejam's band "Cheap Fakes": http://cheapfakes.com.au, http://www.facebook.com/cheapfakes
Toejam the solo artist: http://www.youtube.com/scottbignell
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Reply #160 posted 09/20/18 1:19am

IanRG

toejam said:

^It's a shame you couldn't bring yourself to apologise for accusing me of misleadingly manipulating an image. And, despite your objection to the contrary, it was clearly disclosed that the "red dot areas" were the areas from which I had 'eyedropped' the colour. But quite frankly, I'm amazed you at least admitted that infallible-Ian had indeed made a mistake! So I'll take that as your apology. Apology accepted, Ian wink It's also a shame you couldn't bring yourself to admit that I have a point - the depiction of Naomi's skin tone is clearly darker than that of the "white" chair umpire's, thus exposing the emptiness of your and free2BFreeda's claim that Naomi has been depicted as "white". The accuracy to which the artist has rendered the length of Naomi's dyed-blonde hair is really a desperate scraping-of-the-barrel for something to cling on to. The fact is that Naomi had a dyed-blonde pony-tail. Nobody's depiction is in perfect ratio. The umpire clearly wasn't that skinny, certainly didn't have a nose that big, and iirc, had some stubble that is missing. Heaven forbid!! Must be racism!! . [Edited 9/20/18 0:39am]

.

It is a shame that you couldn't bring yourself to apologise for falsely accusing me of smearing yet again. It is shame that you never apologised for supporting and encouraging a person to cyberbully me on this site, through orgnotes and outside of prince.org . It is a shame you couldn't bring yourself to accept responsibility for changing the first picture and not disclosing that you had - Once it was made clear that you had changed the first picture I made amends for my wrong assumption.

.

Quite frankly I am not surprised that you couldn't bring yourself to answer my question and you couldn't bring yourself to consider that people could reasonably assume that you had not manipulated the first picture, so were surprised that the second one was different.

.

The skin colour of Naomi is not her skin colour as a dark Haitian-Japanese person. It is analogous with the skin colour you would expect a white outdoor sportswoman to have. That you want her clearly completely blond hair instead of mostly very dark hair to be an empty and bottom of the barrel argument is not surprising - accusing people like this without a reasoned argument is also not convincing. Equally unsurprising is that, by your silence, you are backing away from your claim that standing up and looking at person in tennis ref's chair is "a typically 'Japanese' pose and demeanor". A typical toejam style strawman argument about a separate part of the cartoon that is not racist but it could be is a poor defence for the racism you have shown and the types of racism you so often protect. I apologise for responding to you because it always ends in a toejam rabbithole. Goodbye.

[Edited 9/20/18 1:23am]

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Reply #161 posted 09/20/18 1:50am

CherryMoon57

avatar

toejam said:

^It's a shame you couldn't bring yourself to apologise for accusing me of misleadingly manipulating an image. And, despite your objection to the contrary, it was clearly disclosed that the "red dot areas" were the areas from which I had 'eyedropped' the colour. But quite frankly, I'm amazed you at least admitted that infallible-Ian had indeed made a mistake! So I'll take that as your apology. Apology accepted, Ian wink It's also a shame you couldn't bring yourself to admit that I have a point - the depiction of Naomi's skin tone is clearly darker than that of the "white" chair umpire's, thus exposing the emptiness of your and free2BFreeda's claim that Naomi has been depicted as "white". The accuracy to which the artist has rendered the length of Naomi's dyed-blonde hair is really a desperate scraping-of-the-barrel for something to cling on to. The fact is that Naomi had a dyed-blonde pony-tail. Nobody's depiction is in perfect ratio. The umpire clearly wasn't that skinny, certainly didn't have a nose that big, and iirc, had some stubble that is missing. Heaven forbid!! Must be racism!! . [Edited 9/20/18 0:39am]


I agree. And how come there were no official complaints that Serena's skin is much paler than her actual real skin tone? Surely if it was a caricature after all, the drawer would be entitled to render (if not exagerate) all her traits including her skin tone without causing an outrage or sparking embarrassment. Again, many of the people who think that all humans should be treated equally, still cannot view people with darker skin tones equally hence the initial defensiveness of the majority (see my previous post).


But anyway, the fact that the artist hasn't spent much time perfecting the details on his drawing is simply because skin tones and colour of hair were of no relevance whatsoever in this cartoon. The emphasis and highlight (no pun intended) was on Serena's fury.

I suppose her downward spiralling attitude on the court is the antithesis of why black americans wanted to identify with her in the first place. Now her more negative characteristics have been exposed, the people who looked up to her for inspiration have been hurt in their pride too. But the problem is that no one is perfect and all humans have flaws and that's sometimes hard to admit.

[Edited 9/20/18 2:27am]

Open your heart open your mind
A train is leaving all day
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Reply #162 posted 09/20/18 4:42am

PennyPurple

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The image was not manipulated by toejam.


Focusing on the blonde hair, is a weak arguement.

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Reply #163 posted 09/20/18 6:47am

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

free2bFreeda2 said:

IanRG said:

.

Agreed

after much thought, I totally agree with your words as far as understanding that Serena did loose control. however my anger/disappointment/confusion comes from the artist' depiction of Serena and Miss Osaka. Serena was pictured as an ugly female brute and Miss Osaka (who is a puerto rican brown in color) was pictured as a demure white looking Nicole Kidman type....imo the cartoon also showed a huge disrespect to her. that is the issue... i am not hurt....... just disappointed and egregiously mystified. sidebar: during the mid sixties there was, a militant black group. the artist for their organization(s) published cartoons that depicted the police looking like pigs. one of the reasons they chose the pig was because of the color of their whitish/pink skin which they said was almost identical to the color of pink pigs. they even did depictions of white female police. 🐷 imo that was very cruel 🐖 [Edited 9/19/18 20:18pm]

There had to be a different reason. It must be more to do with attributing manners between the animal and the person. Usually we attribute bad human nature to animals. 'Acting like animals' When animals are in order and harmony with nature.
I know cartoonish images of pigs and piggy banks are usually pink. But that is a bit sad, because that would entail a dead defurred pig. Pigs have a range of fur colors. Pig as a slur towards cops started in Europe though around the 16th century. It came and went and college students and anti war protesters in the 60s started using it again.

.

side note: I hate how people view and treat pigs, they are cute and fun creatures. All those hogs drowned in the flooding in North Carolina recently is a shame. No pork, no pork. After seeing treatment of pigs in some 'farms' I cannot anymore.

Image result for pigs

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence
I will make you cyber shit in your pants!
What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In
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Reply #164 posted 09/20/18 7:40am

free2bFreeda2

OldFriends4Sale said:



free2bFreeda2 said:


IanRG said:


.


Agreed



after much thought, I totally agree with your words as far as understanding that Serena did loose control. however my anger/disappointment/confusion comes from the artist' depiction of Serena and Miss Osaka. Serena was pictured as an ugly female brute and Miss Osaka (who is a puerto rican brown in color) was pictured as a demure white looking Nicole Kidman type....imo the cartoon also showed a huge disrespect to her. that is the issue... i am not hurt..... just disappointed and egregiously mystified. sidebar: during the mid sixties there was, a militant black group. the artist for their organization(s) published cartoons that depicted the police looking like pigs. one of the reasons they chose the pig was because of the color of their whitish/pink skin which they said was almost identical to the color of pink pigs. they even did depictions of white female police. 🐷 imo that was very cruel 🐖 [Edited 9/19/18 20:18pm]


There had to be a different reason. It must be more to do with attributing manners between the animal and the person. Usually we attribute bad human nature to animals. 'Acting like animals' When animals are in order and harmony with nature.
I know cartoonish images of pigs and piggy banks are usually pink. But that is a bit sad, because that would entail a dead defurred pig. Pigs have a range of fur colors. Pig as a slur towards cops started in Europe though around the 16th century. It came and went and college students and anti war protesters in the 60s started using it again.


.


side note: I hate how people view and treat pigs, they are cute and fun creatures. All those hogs drowned in the flooding in North Carolina recently is a shame. No pork, no pork. After seeing treatment of pigs in some 'farms' I cannot anymore.



Image result for pigs


the time period l chose to focus on was the 60s & 70s.
the color of the pigs pinkish white. Seems that color pig is most popular for children's movies, books and adult tv series.
🐷
[Edited 9/20/18 8:13am]
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Reply #165 posted 09/20/18 7:43am

2freaky4church
1

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Toejam, Alice Springs.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #166 posted 09/20/18 8:44am

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

free2bFreeda2 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

There had to be a different reason. It must be more to do with attributing manners between the animal and the person. Usually we attribute bad human nature to animals. 'Acting like animals' When animals are in order and harmony with nature.
I know cartoonish images of pigs and piggy banks are usually pink. But that is a bit sad, because that would entail a dead defurred pig. Pigs have a range of fur colors. Pig as a slur towards cops started in Europe though around the 16th century. It came and went and college students and anti war protesters in the 60s started using it again.

.

side note: I hate how people view and treat pigs, they are cute and fun creatures. All those hogs drowned in the flooding in North Carolina recently is a shame. No pork, no pork. After seeing treatment of pigs in some 'farms' I cannot anymore.

Image result for pigs

the time period l chose to focus on was the 60s & 70s. the color of the pigs pinkish white. Seems that color pig is most popular for children's movies, books and adult tv series. 🐷 [Edited 9/20/18 8:13am]

I know, I said the use of pig towards cops started up again in the 60s. But it wasn't the Black Panthers that invented it. Right I mentioned in cartoons pigs are pink. But that is actually a pig that is dead and defurred. As in Pigs have fur and fur colors that range from black browns rust colors tans whites etc

poor pigs and hogs

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence
I will make you cyber shit in your pants!
What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In
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Reply #167 posted 09/20/18 8:45am

2freaky4church
1

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Oldfriends, were you sick?

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #168 posted 09/20/18 8:49am

CherryMoon57

avatar

free2bFreeda2 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

There had to be a different reason. It must be more to do with attributing manners between the animal and the person. Usually we attribute bad human nature to animals. 'Acting like animals' When animals are in order and harmony with nature.
I know cartoonish images of pigs and piggy banks are usually pink. But that is a bit sad, because that would entail a dead defurred pig. Pigs have a range of fur colors. Pig as a slur towards cops started in Europe though around the 16th century. It came and went and college students and anti war protesters in the 60s started using it again.

.

side note: I hate how people view and treat pigs, they are cute and fun creatures. All those hogs drowned in the flooding in North Carolina recently is a shame. No pork, no pork. After seeing treatment of pigs in some 'farms' I cannot anymore.

iStock_29177128_leighdu-1.jpg

the time period l chose to focus on was the 60s & 70s. the color of the pigs pinkish white. Seems that color pig is most popular for children's movies, books and adult tv series. 🐷 [Edited 9/20/18 8:13am]


There was a lovely female Berkshire sow (Pig-Wig) in Beatrix Potter's famous Tale Of Pigling Bland (1913)
500px-Pigling_Bland_pg_62.jpg

[Edited 9/20/18 8:49am]

Open your heart open your mind
A train is leaving all day
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Reply #169 posted 09/20/18 10:45am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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moderator

2freaky4church1 said:

Oldfriends, were you sick?

no, why?

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence
I will make you cyber shit in your pants!
What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In
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Reply #170 posted 09/20/18 10:46am

OldFriends4Sal
e

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moderator

CherryMoon57 said:

free2bFreeda2 said:

OldFriends4Sale said: the time period l chose to focus on was the 60s & 70s. the color of the pigs pinkish white. Seems that color pig is most popular for children's movies, books and adult tv series. 🐷 [Edited 9/20/18 8:13am]


There was a lovely female Berkshire sow (Pig-Wig) in Beatrix Potter's famous Tale Of Pigling Bland (1913)
500px-Pigling_Bland_pg_62.jpg

[Edited 9/20/18 8:49am]

we used to feed the pigs and piglets the good fruit and veges from my granddad farm
beautiful animals

#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence
I will make you cyber shit in your pants!
What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In
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Reply #171 posted 09/20/18 1:05pm

IanRG

PennyPurple said:

The image was not manipulated by toejam.


Focusing on the blonde hair, is a weak arguement.

.

I know that now - I corrected my assumption.

.

Yes, the whole thing is based on weak arguments. Whether it is the how the cartoonist got Naomi's hair colour wrong, the skinniness of the Ref's legs wrong, the claim that Naomi is depicted in a stereotypical Japanese pose and demeanour, the defence that the cartoonist drew a baby's dummy (AKA pacifier) etc etc are all weak arguments and irrelevant. The key and prime argument is that the picture of Serena crossed the line for many African-Americans between a comedic caricature and an image that draws on racist depictions.

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Reply #172 posted 09/20/18 1:11pm

IanRG

OldFriends4Sale said:

free2bFreeda2 said:

IanRG said: after much thought, I totally agree with your words as far as understanding that Serena did loose control. however my anger/disappointment/confusion comes from the artist' depiction of Serena and Miss Osaka. Serena was pictured as an ugly female brute and Miss Osaka (who is a puerto rican brown in color) was pictured as a demure white looking Nicole Kidman type....imo the cartoon also showed a huge disrespect to her. that is the issue... i am not hurt....... just disappointed and egregiously mystified. sidebar: during the mid sixties there was, a militant black group. the artist for their organization(s) published cartoons that depicted the police looking like pigs. one of the reasons they chose the pig was because of the color of their whitish/pink skin which they said was almost identical to the color of pink pigs. they even did depictions of white female police. 🐷 imo that was very cruel 🐖 [Edited 9/19/18 20:18pm]

There had to be a different reason. It must be more to do with attributing manners between the animal and the person. Usually we attribute bad human nature to animals. 'Acting like animals' When animals are in order and harmony with nature.
I know cartoonish images of pigs and piggy banks are usually pink. But that is a bit sad, because that would entail a dead defurred pig. Pigs have a range of fur colors. Pig as a slur towards cops started in Europe though around the 16th century. It came and went and college students and anti war protesters in the 60s started using it again.

.

side note: I hate how people view and treat pigs, they are cute and fun creatures. All those hogs drowned in the flooding in North Carolina recently is a shame. No pork, no pork. After seeing treatment of pigs in some 'farms' I cannot anymore.

Image result for pigs

.

On your side note: the unethical treatment of farm animals is generally higher against pigs than most other animals. It is good to hear that this was not so on your granddad's farm.

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Reply #173 posted 09/20/18 2:03pm

toejam

avatar

IanRG said:

The key and prime argument is that the picture of Serena crossed the line for many African-Americans between a comedic caricature and an image that draws on racist depictions.

It's not only many African-Americans who mistakenly think the cartoon crossed the line. Many non-African-Americans mistakenly think so too. But those who do, be they African-American or non-African-American, have yet to actually articulate a compelling argument for why the cartoon is racist. Is it because Serena is pictured out of proportion? But so is everyone! Is it because she is portrayed as a tantrum-throwing baby? Well, she did throw a baby-like tantrum and such imagery is a common cartoon trope applicable to anyone of any race. Is it because she has big lips? Well, she does have large features in real life, everyone's features are exaggerated, and it's part of the crying-baby imagery. Is it because Naomi is depicted as white? But she's not depicted white!

I'm still waiting on a compelling argument for why the image is racist. The cartoon is poking fun at an individual - Serena Williams - and her depiction is not intended to be a summary slandering representation of African-American people.

.
[Edited 9/20/18 15:22pm]
Toejam @ Peach & Black Podcast: http://peachandblack.podbean.com
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Reply #174 posted 09/20/18 2:22pm

PurpleSkipper5
8

toejam said:

free2bFreeda2 said:
maybe the following images might help you understand why so many black women and many people feel insulted by the image of an ugly caricature of Serena.

.

Well, they need not feel insulted because the cartoon is not about "black women" or anyone else. It's about Serena Williams acting immaturely. The artist has fairly and humorously caricatured her as a crying baby.

.

Everyone in the image has had their physical characteristics exaggerated. The chair umpire has an excessively pointed nose, rosy cheeks, sits in a crouched position, is unrealistically skinny, and speaks a defeatist comment. All of this helps suggest his weakness in controling the situation. Naomi has a tiny mouth and a straight back, all representing her quiet demeanor, professionalism and indifference throughout the whole ordeal.

.

Serena has... how shall I say... large features in real life. It can't be denied. The depiction of her large open lips in the picture, like the pacifier in the corner, help depict her baby-like crying. All fair game, and not racist. It's really not that dissimilar to these humorous political caricatures where people are portrayed as babies:
.

01312012_Newt.jpg

Donald-Trump-Whiny-Babyhands.jpg

[Edited 9/14/18 21:37pm]

This post right here basically settles the debate. (I was about to post a Trump cartoon until I saw your post lol)

I agree these cartoons are suppose to make fun of anybody based on what they look like in real life, nothing to do with race. Like, with Trump cartoons, his orangeness is diled up to 11 lol

”The people that will end up defining ‘Hate Speech Laws’ are the very people you don’t want to define the Hate Speech Laws” — Jordan B Peterson
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Reply #175 posted 09/20/18 3:34pm

free2bFreeda2

PurpleSkipper58
said:



free2bFreeda2 said:

maybe the stereotypical nonstop degrading images of prominent black women might help you understand why so many black women and many people feel insulted by the image of an ugly caricature of Serena.


This post right here basically settles the debate.

speak for yourself.
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Reply #176 posted 09/20/18 3:43pm

CherryMoon57

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OldFriends4Sale said:

CherryMoon57 said:


There was a lovely female Berkshire sow (Pig-Wig) in Beatrix Potter's famous Tale Of Pigling Bland (1913)
500px-Pigling_Bland_pg_62.jpg

[Edited 9/20/18 8:49am]

we used to feed the pigs and piglets the good fruit and veges from my granddad farm
beautiful animals

I spent a few hours on a pigs farm recently, just watching the piglets running around their mum and peaking over the walls of their little houses. Beautiful animals indeed.

Open your heart open your mind
A train is leaving all day
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Reply #177 posted 09/20/18 3:48pm

free2bFreeda2

LeBron James supports Serena Williams through U.S. Open controversy: 'She is fighting for equality'
: https://www.google.com/am...27935.html
20 September 2018


LeBron James supports Serena Williams through U.S. Open controversy: 'She is fighting for equality'
Ben Rohrbach
Ben Rohrbach
Yahoo SportsSeptember 20, 2018, 6:30 PM GMT
Nike athletes LeBron James and Serena Williams are longtime supporters of each other. (Getty Images)
Nike athletes LeBron James and Serena Williams are longtime supporters of each other. (Getty Images)
The Serena Williams controversy at this year’s U.S. Open divided viewers. Many critics believe her confrontation with chair umpire Carlos Ramos was unbecoming of a professional tennis player, and many supporters believe that ignores deeper-seated gender and race issues that influence that view.

LeBron James, who knows first-hand the microscope that superstar athletes find themselves under, told The Hollywood Reporter that he views the Williams saga through the lens of his daughter, Zhuri, a 4-year-old African-American female who in his eyes could benefit from Serena’s trailblazing efforts.
What we all have to understand is what she is fighting for is bigger than just that match,” said James. “She is fighting for equality — always having to win more, more, more, just to feel equal. Being an African-American woman playing in a predominantly white sport, she’s dealing with so much more. I have no idea what was going on in her head, but I feel that struggle.”

read more at posted link:

There is no doubt that Williams is making us rethink the way race and gender influence our perception of sports. Support from fellow superstars like James will only help to advance that message. We should also applaud Osaka, whose success as the daughter of a Haitian man and Japanese woman is breaking barriers. It is encouraging that Zhuri James can draw inspiration from so many role models.

so glad
LeBron steps forward in support of Serena.
seems here at the org those who continue to trivialize Serena outrage are not even citizens of the u s:
Toejam
Tweet
Cherrymoon
one wonders why so much energy is spent placing a blas umbrella over Serena as far as her being a large woman and their dissecting her feature to justify that shithole art image which is a visual degradation of Serena.
Imo many of us americans stand in support of Serena's feeling outraged at ramos' frivously issued call minus warnings.


while at this point nothing can be reversed as far as the outcome.
the rules and regulations set forth by by the umpires should be consistent and equal across the board no matter the gender.
(by the way osaka's coach was coaching during the also

[Edited 9/20/18 16:21pm]
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Reply #178 posted 09/20/18 3:54pm

toejam

avatar

free2bFreeda2 said:

Ben Rohrbach:
LeBron James, who knows first-hand the microscope that superstar athletes find themselves under, told The Hollywood Reporter that he views the Williams saga through the lens of his daughter, Zhuri, a 4-year-old African-American female who in his eyes could benefit from Serena’s trailblazing efforts.

.

How so? By teaching his daughter that it's OK to berate and try to intimidate an umpire who made a correct call?

Toejam @ Peach & Black Podcast: http://peachandblack.podbean.com
Toejam's band "Cheap Fakes": http://cheapfakes.com.au, http://www.facebook.com/cheapfakes
Toejam the solo artist: http://www.youtube.com/scottbignell
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Reply #179 posted 09/20/18 4:28pm

free2bFreeda2

Australian athletes under fire for wearing racist Serena and Venus Williams costumes and blackface

September 19, 2018, 3:58
: https://www.google.com/am...07707.html

Just a week after the Melbourne-based Herald Sun newspaper sparked outrage with a cartoon of Serena Williams that was slammed as racist, three Australian amateur athletes have been caught wearing blackface makeup to model themselves after the tennis star, her sister Venus, and an Australian rules football player of African descent.

Beau Grundy, pictured with two other players from the Tasmanian Penguins Football Club, shared the offensive photo on Facebook. His caption noted that the men were mimicking the Williams sisters and Sydney Swans star Aliir Aliir, who is of South Sudanese heritage.

The picture was removed from Grundy’s profile on Wednesday.
😬
I'm pretty sure those morons won't be considered racist?
[Edited 9/20/18 16:33pm]
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