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Thread started 09/17/17 6:10pm

Superfan1984

Anyone read the Quran?

I have a new friend who is Muslim. She mentions a lot of interesting things from the Quran. I haven't even read all of the Bible yet (I should, I know) but I'm wondering if I should read the Quran. Has anyone who was not Muslim read it? What did you think?

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Reply #1 posted 09/17/17 9:04pm

luv4u

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My Somali bff told me I could view the Quran in English on youtube.

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Reply #2 posted 09/18/17 4:25am

Chancellor

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My Father & Step-Mother are Muslims and all they talk about is their trips to see Minister Farrakhan and they binge on his videos...My Father's neighbor knows he's a Muslim and every Christmas he asks my father if he wants a Free Ham...LOL..My Father gets so pissed at that Man...I wish he'd say yes so I can have that Ham...

I'm a Liberal Christian and I learned a long time ago to never bring up religion...

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Reply #3 posted 09/18/17 6:24am

Superfan1984

luv4u said:

My Somali bff told me I could view the Quran in English on youtube.

Oh! Good to know! thanks...

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Reply #4 posted 09/18/17 6:26am

Superfan1984

Chancellor said:

My Father & Step-Mother are Muslims and all they talk about is their trips to see Minister Farrakhan and they binge on his videos...My Father's neighbor knows he's a Muslim and every Christmas he asks my father if he wants a Free Ham...LOL..My Father gets so pissed at that Man...I wish he'd say yes so I can have that Ham...

I'm a Liberal Christian and I learned a long time ago to never bring up religion...

Yes, true! I've never thought of reading it before but, I also am a Christian and I've heard Jesus is in the Quran? I'm sort of interested to read it. In Mayte's book she said Prince had read it. ..... Your neighbor and the ham... lol....

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Reply #5 posted 09/18/17 7:15am

deebee

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I've read some of it - enough to get the gist - and I've read about it. It's a difficult book, in its English translation, for the reasons the writer Lesley Hazleton talks about in the clip below. It takes the form of surahs (chapters) that Muslims believe were revealed by God (via the Archangel Gabriel) to the Prophet Muhammad over a period of 23 years or so. But the focus of these often shifts around, and they tend to assume prior knowledge of the other two Abrahamic faiths, rather than telling stories from start to finish. The chapters are also arranged in the text in a way that's not in chronological order - so some of the early, more accessible, revelations (which are more straightforward injunctions to straighten up and fly right 'cos the Judgement Day's a-coming) are at the end, whereas some of the more dense, Leviticus-like passages setting out aspects of the law in all its detail are at the front end - such as the second chapter. So, it's a bit hard to grasp quite what's going on.



The other problem is that, translated into English, it loses much of the lyrical, poetic quality that it has in its incantation. So, listening to the opening surah, al-Fatiha - often compared to The Lord's Prayer in Christianity - in the clip below is a far richer experience than reading the words on the page in the King James style it's all usually translated into.



My own take on how to learn more about the Qur'an itself is to look to some of the secondary literature. There's a book on it in Granta Books' 'How to Read...' series, which takes key excerpts from the text itself, then offers commentary on their meaning. There are other decent overviews of the religion as a whole, including this book, which has a chapter on the Qur'an, and really nice accompanying illustrations. Tariq Ramadan is always good at giving a plausible account of the version of the faith that has most in common with what the non-crazy Muslims you're likely to meet in real life believe, and his most recent book is an introductory account. He's also got a very readable book about the Prophet himself, which is based on the Hadith - which are the reports of the words and deeds of the Prophet, which together comprise the other main textual source in Islam, and are probably a bit more like the kind of Gospel-like accounts that are more familiar to Christians. That one might well be a better introduction, tbh.

"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #6 posted 09/18/17 8:32am

Superfan1984

deebee said:

I've read some of it - enough to get the gist - and I've read about it. It's a difficult book, in its English translation, for the reasons the writer Lesley Hazleton talks about in the clip below. It takes the form of surahs (chapters) that Muslims believe were revealed by God (via the Archangel Gabriel) to the Prophet Muhammad over a period of 23 years or so. But the focus of these often shifts around, and they tend to assume prior knowledge of the other two Abrahamic faiths, rather than telling stories from start to finish. The chapters are also arranged in the text in a way that's not in chronological order - so some of the early, more accessible, revelations (which are more straightforward injunctions to straighten up and fly right 'cos the Judgement Day's a-coming) are at the end, whereas some of the more dense, Leviticus-like passages setting out aspects of the law in all its detail are at the front end - such as the second chapter. So, it's a bit hard to grasp quite what's going on.



The other problem is that, translated into English, it loses much of the lyrical, poetic quality that it has in its incantation. So, listening to the opening surah, al-Fatiha - often compared to The Lord's Prayer in Christianity - in the clip below is a far richer experience than reading the words on the page in the King James style it's all usually translated into.



My own take on how to learn more about the Qur'an itself is to look to some of the secondary literature. There's a book on it in Granta Books' 'How to Read...' series, which takes key excerpts from the text itself, then offers commentary on their meaning. There are other decent overviews of the religion as a whole, including this book, which has a chapter on the Qur'an, and really nice accompanying illustrations. Tariq Ramadan is always good at giving a plausible account of the version of the faith that has most in common with what the non-crazy Muslims you're likely to meet in real life believe, and his most recent book is an introductory account. He's also got a very readable book about the Prophet himself, which is based on the Hadith - which are the reports of the words and deeds of the Prophet, which together comprise the other main textual source in Islam, and are probably a bit more like the kind of Gospel-like accounts that are more familiar to Christians. That one might well be a better introduction, tbh.

Thank you for this! I think these books you mentioned may make me understand better than reading the actual Quran... thank you!

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Reply #7 posted 09/18/17 10:02am

2freaky4church
1

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Has to be interpreted by a scholar. You can't just read it like a normal book.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #8 posted 09/18/17 1:14pm

IanRG

deebee said:

I've read some of it - enough to get the gist - and I've read about it. It's a difficult book, in its English translation, for the reasons the writer Lesley Hazleton talks about in the clip below. It takes the form of surahs (chapters) that Muslims believe were revealed by God (via the Archangel Gabriel) to the Prophet Muhammad over a period of 23 years or so. But the focus of these often shifts around, and they tend to assume prior knowledge of the other two Abrahamic faiths, rather than telling stories from start to finish. The chapters are also arranged in the text in a way that's not in chronological order - so some of the early, more accessible, revelations (which are more straightforward injunctions to straighten up and fly right 'cos the Judgement Day's a-coming) are at the end, whereas some of the more dense, Leviticus-like passages setting out aspects of the law in all its detail are at the front end - such as the second chapter. So, it's a bit hard to grasp quite what's going on.



The other problem is that, translated into English, it loses much of the lyrical, poetic quality that it has in its incantation. So, listening to the opening surah, al-Fatiha - often compared to The Lord's Prayer in Christianity - in the clip below is a far richer experience than reading the words on the page in the King James style it's all usually translated into.



My own take on how to learn more about the Qur'an itself is to look to some of the secondary literature. There's a book on it in Granta Books' 'How to Read...' series, which takes key excerpts from the text itself, then offers commentary on their meaning. There are other decent overviews of the religion as a whole, including this book, which has a chapter on the Qur'an, and really nice accompanying illustrations. Tariq Ramadan is always good at giving a plausible account of the version of the faith that has most in common with what the non-crazy Muslims you're likely to meet in real life believe, and his most recent book is an introductory account. He's also got a very readable book about the Prophet himself, which is based on the Hadith - which are the reports of the words and deeds of the Prophet, which together comprise the other main textual source in Islam, and are probably a bit more like the kind of Gospel-like accounts that are more familiar to Christians. That one might well be a better introduction, tbh.

.

My thoughts exactly - an excellent post

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Reply #9 posted 09/18/17 2:03pm

2freaky4church
1

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A smaller part of it is about law. Most is about justice, like our Bible. Being against oppression.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #10 posted 09/18/17 10:02pm

TrivialPursuit

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I've read it.

This experience will cover courtship, sex, commitment, fetishes, loneliness, vindication, love, and hate.
http://bit.ly/1D3FG2U
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Reply #11 posted 09/18/17 11:37pm

TweetyV6

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Superfan1984 said:

Has anyone who was not Muslim read it?


I'm passed the age that I read fairytales.

The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification - Thomas Henry Huxley
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Reply #12 posted 09/18/17 11:51pm

hausofmoi7

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I have a book in English that has translations of the meanings of the Qur'an.




.
[Edited 9/18/17 23:53pm]
“It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #13 posted 09/19/17 2:13am

deebee

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2freaky4church1 said:

A smaller part of it is about law. Most is about justice, like our Bible. Being against oppression.

There are bits that can be cited in struggles for justice (like those verses quoted by the Syrian granny that stood up to Isis in the clip below biggrin), but, from what I've read, the abiding theme is the insistance on God's sovereignty over mankind and the injunction to worship Him and follow the path that will gain His favour. Quite a lot of threats of hellfire for the unconvinced in there, too.

I had high hopes I'd discover the basis for the sometimes-vaunted connection between Islam and socialism when I started reading, or at least some kind of radical social justice manifesto I could throw back against the bigots and wave at the bougie Muslims. lol Lesley Hazleton does her best to cast Muhammad as a kind of pious reformer, come to clean up the scuzzy boomtown of Mecca and get people back in touch with their higher spirituality before it's too late; and others have contended that a kind of liberationist orientation is inherent in the way the prophets come to shake up the staus quo and are opposed by the rich and powerful. It's a likeable idea, but I'm not sure it's always that way. I certainly see lefty Muslims, and many people are certainly inspired by their faith to push for just causes (think Malcolm X), but the social justice angle in the Text itself just didn't leap off the page for me. I tend to think religion can be tilted either way, depending on the circumstances and the orientation of the believer.

"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #14 posted 09/19/17 2:31am

deebee

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Superfan1984 said:

deebee said:

I've read some of it - enough to get the gist - and I've read about it. It's a difficult book, in its English translation, for the reasons the writer Lesley Hazleton talks about in the clip below. It takes the form of surahs (chapters) that Muslims believe were revealed by God (via the Archangel Gabriel) to the Prophet Muhammad over a period of 23 years or so. But the focus of these often shifts around, and they tend to assume prior knowledge of the other two Abrahamic faiths, rather than telling stories from start to finish. The chapters are also arranged in the text in a way that's not in chronological order - so some of the early, more accessible, revelations (which are more straightforward injunctions to straighten up and fly right 'cos the Judgement Day's a-coming) are at the end, whereas some of the more dense, Leviticus-like passages setting out aspects of the law in all its detail are at the front end - such as the second chapter. So, it's a bit hard to grasp quite what's going on.



The other problem is that, translated into English, it loses much of the lyrical, poetic quality that it has in its incantation. So, listening to the opening surah, al-Fatiha - often compared to The Lord's Prayer in Christianity - in the clip below is a far richer experience than reading the words on the page in the King James style it's all usually translated into.



My own take on how to learn more about the Qur'an itself is to look to some of the secondary literature. There's a book on it in Granta Books' 'How to Read...' series, which takes key excerpts from the text itself, then offers commentary on their meaning. There are other decent overviews of the religion as a whole, including this book, which has a chapter on the Qur'an, and really nice accompanying illustrations. Tariq Ramadan is always good at giving a plausible account of the version of the faith that has most in common with what the non-crazy Muslims you're likely to meet in real life believe, and his most recent book is an introductory account. He's also got a very readable book about the Prophet himself, which is based on the Hadith - which are the reports of the words and deeds of the Prophet, which together comprise the other main textual source in Islam, and are probably a bit more like the kind of Gospel-like accounts that are more familiar to Christians. That one might well be a better introduction, tbh.

Thank you for this! I think these books you mentioned may make me understand better than reading the actual Quran... thank you!

You're welcome. smile I found some of those books useful to get an overview of the religion itself and how many believers interpret it. It's still useful to delve into the Qur'an itself to see the main source; it's just that that can be a bit difficult to get much from on its own. Tbh, talking to your friend about how she interprets and applies the ideas she's mentioned will likely be interesting too. I tend to find people's lived experience of their faith and what it means to them more engaging and illuminating than the formalities of religious doctrine themselves, though I do like to try and understand the latter to get a sense of the whole picture.

"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #15 posted 09/19/17 2:44am

MoBettaBliss

2freaky4church1 said:

A smaller part of it is about law. Most is about justice, like our Bible. Being against oppression.



have you read it?

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Reply #16 posted 09/19/17 3:07am

Chancellor

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Superfan1984 said:

Yes, true! I've never thought of reading it before but, I also am a Christian and I've heard Jesus is in the Quran? I'm sort of interested to read it. In Mayte's book she said Prince had read it. ..... Your neighbor and the ham... lol....


Same here...I never thought about reading the Quran just like I'll probably never watch Titanic...I am curious about the Quran though...Maybe if I saw my Father more often I would be more interested in reading it.....

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Reply #17 posted 09/19/17 9:53am

laurarichardso
n

Had a Book that explained the Quran and twice it was stolen from me. WTF

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Reply #18 posted 09/19/17 8:18pm

RJOrion

2freaky4church1 said:

Has to be interpreted by a scholar. You can't just read it like a normal book.




false
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Reply #19 posted 09/19/17 8:49pm

IanRG

RJOrion said:

2freaky4church1 said:

Has to be interpreted by a scholar. You can't just read it like a normal book.

false

.

Why is it false? This is a well undertood position for the Qur'an and, indeed, the majority of religious texts. To understand when, how, why and for what use these are written and to just look them like a fairytale fails to show any understanding or any ability to undersand these books

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Reply #20 posted 09/20/17 4:27am

laurarichardso
n

IanRG said:

RJOrion said:

2freaky4church1 said: false

.

Why is it false? This is a well undertood position for the Qur'an and, indeed, the majority of religious texts. To understand when, how, why and for what use these are written and to just look them like a fairytale fails to show any understanding or any ability to undersand these books

You think unless people are scholars they are too stupid to understand what they are reading?

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Reply #21 posted 09/20/17 5:56am

IanRG

laurarichardson said:

IanRG said:

.

Why is it false? This is a well undertood position for the Qur'an and, indeed, the majority of religious texts. To understand when, how, why and for what use these are written and to just look them like a fairytale fails to show any understanding or any ability to undersand these books

You think unless people are scholars they are too stupid to understand what they are reading?

.

No, I understand that people with no knowledge on the culture, the time period, the symbolism, the method of writing and making conceptual or religious points etc. of a different people from a different place and a different time will not properly understand these types of books. You personally can do it scholarly with necessarily needing to be a scholar - but if you don't do it scholarly you wont understand it. That includes studying the scholarly works by others before you and not just picking up the book and reading it like a novel. This is the very way you tried to do until your book was stolen. I never said anyone was too stupid.

[Edited 9/20/17 5:59am]

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Reply #22 posted 09/20/17 7:31am

laurarichardso
n

IanRG said:

laurarichardson said:

You think unless people are scholars they are too stupid to understand what they are reading?

.

No, I understand that people with no knowledge on the culture, the time period, the symbolism, the method of writing and making conceptual or religious points etc. of a different people from a different place and a different time will not properly understand these types of books. You personally can do it scholarly with necessarily needing to be a scholar - but if you don't do it scholarly you wont understand it. That includes studying the scholarly works by others before you and not just picking up the book and reading it like a novel. This is the very way you tried to do until your book was stolen. I never said anyone was too stupid.

[Edited 9/20/17 5:59am]

What do you think people do when the go to divinity school? Once they finish they become ministers and often are teaching Bible study courses or starting Christian education in their churches or setting up schools.

I have never attended a church that did not have ministers with advanced degrees.

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Reply #23 posted 09/20/17 9:16am

2freaky4church
1

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I study this stuff. Not false.

All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #24 posted 09/20/17 12:57pm

NorthC

TweetyV6 said:



Superfan1984 said:


Has anyone who was not Muslim read it?




I'm passed the age that I read fairytales.


Even if I live to be 100, I hope I'll never get to the age where I don't read fairytales anymore. I think Show White and Sleeping Beauty are ingrained in European culture even more than the Bible...
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Reply #25 posted 09/20/17 1:42pm

IanRG

laurarichardson said:

IanRG said:

.

No, I understand that people with no knowledge on the culture, the time period, the symbolism, the method of writing and making conceptual or religious points etc. of a different people from a different place and a different time will not properly understand these types of books. You personally can do it scholarly with necessarily needing to be a scholar - but if you don't do it scholarly you wont understand it. That includes studying the scholarly works by others before you and not just picking up the book and reading it like a novel. This is the very way you tried to do until your book was stolen. I never said anyone was too stupid.

[Edited 9/20/17 5:59am]

What do you think people do when the go to divinity school? Once they finish they become ministers and often are teaching Bible study courses or starting Christian education in their churches or setting up schools.

I have never attended a church that did not have ministers with advanced degrees.

.

Why are you trying to make this an argument?

.

You are agreeing with me but making it look like you are not. If you only take your Bible study lessons and courses from people with advanced theological degrees and you demonstrated that you were not stupid enough to seek to read the Qur'an just like a novel and expect to understand it without scholarly help such as from your book that was stolen, then you are on my side: You cannot just pick up the Qur'an and read it like a novel, it requires a scholarly approach - just as does the Bible. As such, RJOrion's one word response that this is false is unsupported by your practices and experience nor mine.

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Reply #26 posted 09/20/17 2:02pm

fortuneandsere
ndipity

The new iPhone X™(not compatible with full face veils)

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Reply #27 posted 09/20/17 7:33pm

hausofmoi7

avatar

fortuneandserendipity said:

The new iPhone X™(not compatible with full face veils)


It's really none of your business what people wear according to their cultural or religious customs.
we are actually talking about the Qu'ran, the prophet does not actually address the issue of women's attire in the Qu'ran.
The hijab and burqa became a part of Islamic custom for some muslims as the hijab and burqa in Persian and Byzantine society was customary attire during the time of the prophets life.
So your comment is actually ignorant and off topic as the issue we are discussing here is the meanings and teachings within the Qu'ran.



.
[Edited 9/20/17 20:49pm]
“It means finding the very human narrative of a man navigating between idealism and pragmatism, faith and politics, non- violence, the pitfalls of acclaim as the perils of rejection” - Lesley Hazleton on the first Muslim, the prophet.
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Reply #28 posted 09/20/17 8:52pm

MoBettaBliss

2freaky4church1 said:

I study this stuff.



no you don't

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Reply #29 posted 09/21/17 12:33am

deebee

avatar

fortuneandserendipity said:

The new iPhone X™(not compatible with full face veils)

Where can I get fitted for one? lol

"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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