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Thread started 11/07/12 6:27am

flyorra

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were we ever apes?

if you see my post about questioning nature in pandr, you will see that in the video link i posted there was talk about some unanswered questions. basically believing in god does not mean you believe in a higher power or a deity, to me believing in god means, seeing beyond the illusions, existence could well just be an illusion, considering the vastness and emensity of the universe, we are just a speck.

to me life itself, the fact that i can question, is almost evidence enough for me to believe that maybe there is more than the eye can see, let's face it, empirically life is made up of molecules, yet ribosomes translate, dna contains information, a cell functions in mysterious ways. i have killed listening to confessions on a dancefloor by madonna, in the song JUMP she says "life's gonna drop you down..." to me it means, there are somethings we will never comprehend, no matter how many pieces of the puzzle we put together.

nasa has amazing techology, gone to planet mars just to observe if there is anything living there. as yet, we have not detected any messages from intelligent life in our galaxy, not saying there isn't life on other planets, but intelligent meaning life that creates technology like we have on earth, can not survive for very long time given the depletion of resources no matter how big their planet is.

i find many scientists although highly intellectual lack the ability to ask crucial questions, like the common belief that due to the evidence we have, we have stemed from apes. i do not connect the dots. if you consider that we have highly engineered dogs for thousands of years, and yet what we have...is still a dog. it is not some other kind of animal. this is called artificial selection but it is a good example of genetic engineering. i have not heard of anything, say a rat being genetically engineered to be a small prehistoric horse for example, it is still a rat no matter what you do to it's genes.

i have not seen a fish being genetically engineered to be some kind of amphibian or mammal or bird or reptile or anything. you might say evolution takes millions of years, i say to you, the contradiction arises, if we all animals come from a common ancestor then this type of evolution paradoxically does not happen in the sense that fish become anything other than fish, because let's face it, millions of years ago there was fish, before and after that there were fish, then how come those populations never turned into land mammals, obviously we (mammals or whatever) would not have ONE common ancestor all this time. just as an example.

and if you tell me that all transitions in the evolutionary tree only happen ONCE each time, since we have one common ancestor (i can't grasp this idea at all) like it is taught that prokaryotes turned into eukaryotes only once in all of history of the planet which we know to be at least 4 billion years old, then i would say the chances of you and i being what we are, questioning beings, is infinitely unlikely, the probabilty would be massive. say if all of us humans died out,every single one of us on earth died out, would there ever be another human being if planet earth still went on for billions of years. which leads me to believe, which in my mind is further evidence of something i call god.

[Edited 11/7/12 6:32am]

[Edited 11/7/12 6:35am]

"who need the exercise"..lol

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Reply #1 posted 11/07/12 7:31am

RodeoSchro

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No, we were not.

Second Funkiest White Man in America

P&R's Palladin
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Reply #2 posted 11/07/12 7:35am

flyorra

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RodeoSchro said:

No, we were not.

considering all the prokaryotes that have ever existed, i agree, it is highly unfathomable that we were.

"who need the exercise"..lol

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Reply #3 posted 11/07/12 8:09am

arX

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Against the ruin of the world, there
is only one defense: the creative act.


-- Kenneth Rexroth
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Reply #4 posted 11/07/12 8:13am

flyorra

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if you have any questions ask me, 55 people have viewed this, and no one has said anything.

"who need the exercise"..lol

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Reply #5 posted 11/07/12 8:23am

flyorra

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arX said:

We are apes.

http://evolution.berkeley...vograms_07

a wolf is a wolf if you read about wolves careful studies of the behaviour have been made and the results show that dogs and wolves are two different things, so the cop out is by saying, dogs and wolves shared a common ancestor, since saying dogs were wolves is suddenly an outdated way of saying things... now you are telling me that dogs are wolves. get what i am saying?

"who need the exercise"..lol

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Reply #6 posted 11/07/12 8:24am

ufoclub

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arX said:

We are apes.

http://evolution.berkeley...vograms_07

Exactly.

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Reply #7 posted 11/07/12 8:29am

arX

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flyorra said:

arX said:

We are apes.

http://evolution.berkeley...vograms_07

a wolf is a wolf if you read about wolves careful studies of the behaviour have been made and the results show that dogs and wolves are two different things, so the cop out is by saying, dogs and wolves shared a common ancestor, since saying dogs were wolves is suddenly an outdated way of saying things... now you are telling me that dogs are wolves. get what i am saying?

I don't think anyone does. Do you?

If you disagree with the contents of the Berkeley link, please do share your rebuttal.

Against the ruin of the world, there
is only one defense: the creative act.


-- Kenneth Rexroth
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Reply #8 posted 11/07/12 8:47am

flyorra

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arX said:

flyorra said:

a wolf is a wolf if you read about wolves careful studies of the behaviour have been made and the results show that dogs and wolves are two different things, so the cop out is by saying, dogs and wolves shared a common ancestor, since saying dogs were wolves is suddenly an outdated way of saying things... now you are telling me that dogs are wolves. get what i am saying?

I don't think anyone does. Do you?

If you disagree with the contents of the Berkeley link, please do share your rebuttal.

i don't disagree with the evidence, yet you have to remember that all these presentations are of extinct species, do we know which of these fossils were actually the common ancestor to chimps? do we know that? and also i think there is something metaphysical that happens that creates different species, maybe metaphysical is not the right word, but there must be a mathematical number or something that goes on when one species transitions or as you say evolves into another species, it is a complete transformation when you think of it, it is almost like a jump which we have not figured out and because we have not figured it out we lean on evolution to explain it, evolution is not sufficient in my opinion.

"who need the exercise"..lol

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Reply #9 posted 11/07/12 9:45am

flyorra

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i have put forward my questions, and i have put forward my thoughts, i am a questioning being, and i ask you to continue to question, why? well maybe that will make a difference between someone who wonders and someone who doesn't.

"who need the exercise"..lol

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Reply #10 posted 11/07/12 9:52am

Celita

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Hi flyorra,

I like reading your threads btw, I recently watched the fabric if the cismis, and there was a quantum theory episode that described these huge jumps the atoms would make at micro levels, maybe that is similar phenomena in evolution

:)
with a drop of me in your voice, sexy
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Reply #11 posted 11/07/12 9:56am

Celita

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Fabric of the cosmos edit, this phone is not letting me edit. You would enjoy that series if you can find it , check the library wink
with a drop of me in your voice, sexy
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Reply #12 posted 11/07/12 10:04am

flyorra

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ufoclub said:

arX said:

We are apes.

http://evolution.berkeley...vograms_07

Exactly.

basically when i ask you how we get a new species, your answer is "millions of years did it" or maybe millions of years in the past, through the survival of the fittest or in other words evolution. millions of years did it. i find that to be quite ironic. did you know that despite all our efforts and modern technology including recent nanotechnology, we have not been able to create a single living cell? all cells come from cells. seeds are embryo cells. i mean even if we managed to create a seed out of molecules we put to gether and it actually growed that would be the icing on the cake. we can not do it, despite seeds existing in our current environment on earth, there is no need for a premordial soup when it comes to seeds. does it? no use using your imagination if you do not read between the lines son. i know what you will say, seeds evolved from cells in a premordial soup (geesh very intelligent particles indeed) therefore it will take, wait for it, "millions of years" of "evolution" to create a seed. isn't it ironic.

"who need the exercise"..lol

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Reply #13 posted 11/07/12 10:20am

RodeoSchro

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flyorra said:

arX said:

We are apes.

http://evolution.berkeley...vograms_07

a wolf is a wolf if you read about wolves careful studies of the behaviour have been made and the results show that dogs and wolves are two different things, so the cop out is by saying, dogs and wolves shared a common ancestor, since saying dogs were wolves is suddenly an outdated way of saying things... now you are telling me that dogs are wolves. get what i am saying?

I am not and have never been an ape, wolf or dog. But, when I was a kid I thought I'd like to be a werewolf.

I still would, but it would have to be a good werewolf, like a superhero kind of werewolf.

Second Funkiest White Man in America

P&R's Palladin
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Reply #14 posted 11/07/12 10:21am

free2bfreeda

i think my next door neighbor was. he was missing just before the filming of 'rise of the planet of the apes'. also i noticed he bangs his hands on the top of his car when he's arguing with his wifey.

“Transracial is a term that has long since been defined as the adoption of a child that is of a different race than the adoptive parents,” : https://thinkprogress.org...fb6e18544a
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Reply #15 posted 11/07/12 10:22am

PREDOMINANT

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None of us WERE apes. We are ALL primates, as are apes and yes Humans evolved from primative apes.

Happy is he who finds out the causes for things.Virgil (70-19 BC). Virgil was such a lying bastard!
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Reply #16 posted 11/07/12 11:07am

arX

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RodeoSchro said:


I am not and have never been an ape

Of course, theists are special. I suppose you don't think that you're a mammal, either.
Against the ruin of the world, there
is only one defense: the creative act.


-- Kenneth Rexroth
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Reply #17 posted 11/07/12 11:28am

lust

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arX said:

[img:$uid]http://cx124.justhost.com/~evolvin5/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Humanape.png[/img:$uid] RodeoSchro said:

I am not and have never been an ape
Of course, theists are special. I suppose you don't think that you're a mammal, either.

lol

[Edited 11/7/12 11:29am]

If the milk turns out to be sour, I aint the kinda pussy to drink it!
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Reply #18 posted 11/07/12 1:40pm

duccichucka

arX said:

We are apes.

http://evolution.berkeley...vograms_07

Yep.

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Reply #19 posted 11/07/12 1:45pm

purplethunder3
121

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were we ever apes?

We still are. razz lol

"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything." --Plato
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Reply #20 posted 11/07/12 1:48pm

duccichucka

RodeoSchro said:

flyorra said:

a wolf is a wolf if you read about wolves careful studies of the behaviour have been made and the results show that dogs and wolves are two different things, so the cop out is by saying, dogs and wolves shared a common ancestor, since saying dogs were wolves is suddenly an outdated way of saying things... now you are telling me that dogs are wolves. get what i am saying?

I am not and have never been an ape...

You mean you personally or you as a homo sapien?

The Bible says that humans were created in the image of

God(s) but that anthropocentrism only exists because the

Hebrews had no single scientific clue about evolution...

...nobody did back then other then to surmise, "Well, we

must've come from somewhere; we need a legend to ex-

plain our existence!" This isn't so hard to fathom.

Accepting that millions of years ago you were swinging in

trees should mean nothing to your faith. I've always used

the metaphor that God is akin to a farmer: plant the seed

create the conditions for it to grow and voila!

Same with us humanoids!

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Reply #21 posted 11/07/12 3:13pm

paintsprayer

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duccichucka said:

RodeoSchro said:

I am not and have never been an ape...

You mean you personally or you as a homo sapien?

The Bible says that humans were created in the image of

God(s) but that anthropocentrism only exists because the

Hebrews had no single scientific clue about evolution...

...nobody did back then other then to surmise, "Well, we

must've come from somewhere; we need a legend to ex-

plain our existence!" This isn't so hard to fathom.

Accepting that millions of years ago you were swinging in

trees should mean nothing to your faith. I've always used

the metaphor that God is akin to a farmer: plant the seed

create the conditions for it to grow and voila!

Same with us humanoids!

Image of God refers to free will, it has nothing to do with our physical shape

Now I'm older than movies, Now I'm wiser than dreams, And I know who's there
When silhouettes fall
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Reply #22 posted 11/07/12 4:30pm

KingBAD

i came in the world as far from bein an ape as my parakeets eek

i am an evolutionary wonder, in that regaurd, no need for knuckle draggin. lol

i am KING BAD!!!
you are NOT...
evilking
"KingBAD, well you are just a troll" (an emotional fan)
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Reply #23 posted 11/07/12 4:44pm

SuperFurryAnim
al

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if we evolved from apes? what were apes a million years ago? not apes? they evolved. what did apes evolve from?

What are you outraged about today? CNN has not told you yet?
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Reply #24 posted 11/07/12 5:11pm

maja2405

SuperFurryAnimal said:

if we evolved from apes? what were apes a million years ago? not apes? they evolved. what did apes evolve from?

you do know that chimpanzees and homo sapiens share a common ancestor right?!

(last approximately 5-7 million years ago)

[Edited 11/7/12 17:53pm]

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Reply #25 posted 11/07/12 5:29pm

lust

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SuperFurryAnimal said:

if we evolved from apes? what were apes a million years ago? not apes? they evolved. what did apes evolve from?

They evolved from super furry animals. Wow, you've come full circle. wink

If the milk turns out to be sour, I aint the kinda pussy to drink it!
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Reply #26 posted 11/07/12 5:57pm

lust

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SuperFurryAnimal said:

if we evolved from apes? what were apes a million years ago? not apes? they evolved. what did apes evolve from?

plesiadapis

If the milk turns out to be sour, I aint the kinda pussy to drink it!
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Reply #27 posted 11/07/12 6:37pm

JustErin

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ufoclub said:

arX said:

We are apes.

http://evolution.berkeley...vograms_07

Exactly.

Totally.

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Reply #28 posted 11/07/12 8:09pm

flyorra

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JustErin said:

ufoclub said:

Exactly.

Totally.

cop out. all you see is what is being put in front of your eyes. but you do not question. you do not question. none of you have used your own words or your own thoughts. you just present some elses work and say "that makes sense". yet you do understand the complexity of life. you do not have the slightest idea about what you are talking about, what you are actually saying. you tell me we are apes, we still are apes. why? think about why. we are primates, all primates are apes. these are just cop outs. you totally ignore everything else i have said, i have put forward for you to comtemplate. not one iota of it.

[Edited 11/7/12 20:29pm]

"who need the exercise"..lol

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Reply #29 posted 11/07/12 8:22pm

lust

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flyorra said:

JustErin said:

Totally.

cop out. all you see is what is being put in front of your eyes. but you do not question. you do not question. none of you have used your own words or your own thoughts. you just present some elses work and say "that makes sense". yet you do understand the complexity of life. you do have the slightest idea about what you are talking about, what you are actually saying. you tell me we are apes, we still are apes. why? think about why. we are primates, all primates are apes. these are just cop outs. you totally ignore everything else i have said, i have put forward for you comtemplate. not one iota of it.

You don't see any irony in this when applied to why you believe what you do?

I'm absolutley open to changing my mind and accepting the existence of a sentient creator of the universe if evidence can be presented to me.

Are you open to changing your world view if evidence is shown? Are YOU willing to accept evolution if it can be proven? You have two possible answers.

Yes, I just haven't read the evidence. (easily fixed)

No, I choose to ignore the evidence.

A century and a half of scientific research supports evolutionary theory. If you want to ignore that, that's up to you. But intentional ignorance really is inexcusable.

If the milk turns out to be sour, I aint the kinda pussy to drink it!
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